15 Replies Latest reply on Sep 18, 2008 1:02 AM by Newsgroup_User

    Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?

    nlneville
      I have to decide very soon what application our international offices will use in over 15 countries and 45 locations. The total number of purchases will be nearly 75+. But I don't feel confidient about recommending and approving Dreamweaver. I am a former GoLive user and I feel that DW lacks the same great ease of use and friendly interfaces that our users will require as novice and experts.

      I would approve GoLive without hesitation, but now my only option is Microsoft. What are your thoughts (and you should hae some GL experience) ?
        • 1. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
          Level 7
          Many corporations have standardized on Dreamweaver as a corporate tool.
          Find them and ask them, instead of asking this kind of question on a
          Dreamweaver forum.

          Nevertheless, consider the general skill level of those using the tool when
          making your decision. Will they be computer professionals and familiar with
          HTML and CSS? Then I believe GL won't make the grade.

          Expression Web is a nice product, but its support for anything other than
          ASP.NET is very basic. Given it's only at rev 2, I think it loses the
          comparison with Dreamweaver (at rev 10) on every count.

          If the emphasis of the web development team at your company would be on
          building standards compliant, valid HTML pages, then I think your choice is
          clear.

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
          ==================
          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          ==================


          "nlneville" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
          news:gar3ul$r32$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          >I have to decide very soon what application our international offices will
          >use
          > in over 15 countries and 45 locations. The total number of purchases will
          > be
          > nearly 75+. But I don't feel confidient about recommending and approving
          > Dreamweaver. I am a former GoLive user and I feel that DW lacks the same
          > great
          > ease of use and friendly interfaces that our users will require as novice
          > and
          > experts.
          >
          > I would approve GoLive without hesitation, but now my only option is
          > Microsoft. What are your thoughts (and you should hae some GL experience)
          > ?
          >

          • 2. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
            Level 7
            The last time i was called a corporate tool, it upset me a bit.. but
            nevermind.

            It sounds like you've already made your decision or at least set the
            criteria for this so that nothing but a better newer version of GoLive would
            "win"

            --
            Alan
            Adobe Community Expert, dreamweaver

            http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/



            • 3. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
              Level 7
              Depends on what you are coding.

              If HTML, ASP, or ASP.NET go with Microsoft.

              If PHP then DreamWeaver


              • 4. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                Level 7
                nlneville wrote:
                > I would approve GoLive without hesitation, but now my only option is
                > Microsoft. What are your thoughts (and you should hae some GL experience) ?

                It sounds as though you have already made up your mind. My experience
                with GoLive is relatively limited. I got it as part of the original
                Creative Suite and Creative Suite 2, but each time that I opened it, I
                found it very counterintuitive. In the end, I gave up.

                The point I'm making is not that GoLive is a bad piece of software, but
                that any piece of software takes time to learn and get used to. Your
                antipathy towards Dreamweaver is quite likely to be based on
                unfamiliarity. If I were in your position, I would take two things into
                account:

                1. Adobe dropped its own product, GoLive, in favour of Dreamweaver. That
                speaks volumes about Dreamweaver's dominance of the market.

                2. What do the people in your 15 offices think? If many of them already
                have experience of Dreamweaver, Expression Web, or another program, your
                training costs will be reduced by adopting that software.

                There are many other factors that you need to weigh up, but try not to
                let your personal views cloud your decision. It's a business decision,
                not a popularity contest.

                --
                David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                http://foundationphp.com/
                • 5. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                  nlneville Level 1
                  Hi David,
                  I'd like to comment on two things although you made some great points.
                  1. I am familiar with DW, very familiar, I know few developers that prefer it over GoLive, but we all adapt to the tools we are given. Saying that, I question Adobe's decision and also point that no one has yet to address the user interface as a person that has migrated from GL. There are many such comments on the GL Forum but here I suppose there may be a restriction to do so.
                  2. Issue of dominance; the number of corporations switching to web-only based CMS tools are increasing dramatically. Stand-alone apps, regardless of maker, are facing a fade-out within the next decade if not sooner. I am an old-school HTML guy and see that the learning curve for the difference in these apps (DW vs. GL) is very high. I have taught persons how to use both. And to address any bias, I was a beta tester for Macromedia for many years. So my question remains, how is DW easier for the novice by comparison? I guess it's pointless since Adobe has killed this app.

                  I just know that those who have worked with GL will oppose and I have little solid argument to weigh in favor of DW and don't want to use a MS app.
                  • 6. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                    Level 7
                    > So my question
                    > remains, how is DW easier for the novice by comparison?

                    The plain truth? DW is not a novice tool. Nor is it a WYSIWYG-only tool.
                    It is a robust, production quality HTML autoring system that supports static
                    HTML, PHP/ASP/CF server scripting, and will accommodate 3rd-party javascript
                    libraries.

                    So - if you are ranking your corporate users as novices, I think you can
                    remove DW from consideration.

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    ==================


                    "nlneville" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:garfg2$aq7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > Hi David,
                    > I'd like to comment on two things although you made some great points.
                    > 1. I am familiar with DW, very familiar, I know few developers that prefer
                    > it
                    > over GoLive, but we all adapt to the tools we are given. Saying that, I
                    > question Adobe's decision and also point that no one has yet to address
                    > the
                    > user interface as a person that has migrated from GL. There are many such
                    > comments on the GL Forum but here I suppose there may be a restriction to
                    > do so.
                    > 2. Issue of dominance; the number of corporations switching to web-only
                    > based
                    > CMS tools are increasing dramatically. Stand-alone apps, regardless of
                    > maker,
                    > are facing a fade-out within the next decade if not sooner. I am an
                    > old-school
                    > HTML guy and see that the learning curve for the difference in these apps
                    > (DW
                    > vs. GL) is very high. I have taught persons how to use both. And to
                    > address any
                    > bias, I was a beta tester for Macromedia for many years. So my question
                    > remains, how is DW easier for the novice by comparison? I guess it's
                    > pointless
                    > since Adobe has killed this app.
                    >
                    > I just know that those who have worked with GL will oppose and I have
                    > little
                    > solid argument to weigh in favor of DW and don't want to use a MS app.
                    >

                    • 7. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                      Level 7
                      It shouldn't be about who makes the product, it should be which product best
                      fits.

                      If you need feature XYZ and only company A has it, go with company A.

                      GL is a dead product and it should even be in the consideration despite that
                      is what the others might want to use. How will you upgrade it? You can't.


                      • 8. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                        Wordman-GL Level 1
                        WHAT? GoLive easier to use than DW? I almost committed suicide over trying to use that painful program called GoLive. If it wasn't for this forum and the great people here AND for Dreamweaver, I'd have ended my web career. Never in my 25+ years of experience have I ever come across such a difficult and unruly program as GoLive. I am so glad I left it by the roadside where it belonged.

                        Also, ease-of-use-wise, Murray beat manual coding into my head and he was right. For me, the design mode is simply a way to check my work. Occassionally I use the CSS menu and other DW features, but it's usually in an effort to save time when learning new code. Once I learn what I need I cut and paste code when I need it for future page builds.

                        Ya can't go wrong on this forum, these people are great!
                        • 9. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                          Level 7
                          Awesome. Thanks, Wordman! Code never hurt anyone except those who tell
                          themselves that they can't learn code.

                          --
                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                          Adobe Community Expert
                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                          ==================
                          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                          ==================


                          "Wordman-GL" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                          news:garlt0$idm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          > WHAT? GoLive easier to use than DW? I almost committed suicide over trying
                          > to
                          > use that painful program called GoLive. If it wasn't for this forum and
                          > the
                          > great people here AND for Dreamweaver, I'd have ended my web career. Never
                          > in
                          > my 25+ years of experience have I ever come across such a difficult and
                          > unruly
                          > program as GoLive. I am so glad I left it by the roadside where it
                          > belonged.
                          >
                          > Also, ease-of-use-wise, Murray beat manual coding into my head and he was
                          > right. For me, the design mode is simply a way to check my work.
                          > Occassionally
                          > I use the CSS menu and other DW features, but it's usually in an effort to
                          > save
                          > time when learning new code. Once I learn what I need I cut and paste code
                          > when
                          > I need it for future page builds.
                          >
                          > Ya can't go wrong on this forum, these people are great!
                          >

                          • 10. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                            Level 7
                            Show us your code again, please, now that you have changed things?

                            --
                            Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                            Adobe Community Expert
                            (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                            ==================
                            http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            ==================


                            "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                            news:garmed$j2c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            > Awesome. Thanks, Wordman! Code never hurt anyone except those who tell
                            > themselves that they can't learn code.
                            >
                            > --
                            > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                            > Adobe Community Expert
                            > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                            > ==================
                            > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                            > ==================
                            >
                            >
                            > "Wordman-GL" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                            > news:garlt0$idm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                            >> WHAT? GoLive easier to use than DW? I almost committed suicide over
                            >> trying to
                            >> use that painful program called GoLive. If it wasn't for this forum and
                            >> the
                            >> great people here AND for Dreamweaver, I'd have ended my web career.
                            >> Never in
                            >> my 25+ years of experience have I ever come across such a difficult and
                            >> unruly
                            >> program as GoLive. I am so glad I left it by the roadside where it
                            >> belonged.
                            >>
                            >> Also, ease-of-use-wise, Murray beat manual coding into my head and he was
                            >> right. For me, the design mode is simply a way to check my work.
                            >> Occassionally
                            >> I use the CSS menu and other DW features, but it's usually in an effort
                            >> to save
                            >> time when learning new code. Once I learn what I need I cut and paste
                            >> code when
                            >> I need it for future page builds.
                            >>
                            >> Ya can't go wrong on this forum, these people are great!
                            >>
                            >

                            • 11. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                              Level 7
                              On 17 Sep 2008 in macromedia.dreamweaver, Murray *ACE* wrote:

                              > Show us your code again, please, now that you have changed things?
                              >
                              > --
                              > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                              > Adobe Community Expert
                              > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                              > ==================
                              > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                              > ==================
                              >
                              >
                              > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                              > news:garmed$j2c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >> Awesome. Thanks, Wordman! Code never hurt anyone except those who
                              >> tell themselves that they can't learn code.

                              Uh, Murray?

                              --
                              Joe Makowiec
                              http://makowiec.net/
                              Email: http://makowiec.net/contact.php
                              • 12. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                                Paevo Kelley Level 2
                                GoLive just SEEMS easier because of its interface, which looks more like a graphics program than an html authoring program... I went round and round in circles using that damn mesh thing you were supposed to pin things on like some kind of deranged html monkey for months until I wizened up to give DW a real try...
                                • 13. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                                  Level 7
                                  Hmmm....

                                  --
                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                  ==================
                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  ==================


                                  "Joe Makowiec" <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
                                  news:Xns9B1CA412BCB22makowiecatnycapdotrE@216.104.212.96...
                                  > On 17 Sep 2008 in macromedia.dreamweaver, Murray *ACE* wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Show us your code again, please, now that you have changed things?
                                  >>
                                  >> --
                                  >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                  >> Adobe Community Expert
                                  >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                  >> ==================
                                  >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  >> ==================
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                  >> news:garmed$j2c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >>> Awesome. Thanks, Wordman! Code never hurt anyone except those who
                                  >>> tell themselves that they can't learn code.
                                  >
                                  > Uh, Murray?
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Joe Makowiec
                                  > http://makowiec.net/
                                  > Email: http://makowiec.net/contact.php

                                  • 14. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                                    Level 7
                                    Heh - ignore this one, please!

                                    --
                                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    Adobe Community Expert
                                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    ==================
                                    http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    ==================


                                    "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                    news:garmjj$jb9$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    > Show us your code again, please, now that you have changed things?
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    > Adobe Community Expert
                                    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    > ==================
                                    > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    > ==================
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                    > news:garmed$j2c$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >> Awesome. Thanks, Wordman! Code never hurt anyone except those who tell
                                    >> themselves that they can't learn code.
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    >> Adobe Community Expert
                                    >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    >> ==================
                                    >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    >> ==================
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> "Wordman-GL" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                    >> news:garlt0$idm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>> WHAT? GoLive easier to use than DW? I almost committed suicide over
                                    >>> trying to
                                    >>> use that painful program called GoLive. If it wasn't for this forum and
                                    >>> the
                                    >>> great people here AND for Dreamweaver, I'd have ended my web career.
                                    >>> Never in
                                    >>> my 25+ years of experience have I ever come across such a difficult and
                                    >>> unruly
                                    >>> program as GoLive. I am so glad I left it by the roadside where it
                                    >>> belonged.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Also, ease-of-use-wise, Murray beat manual coding into my head and he
                                    >>> was
                                    >>> right. For me, the design mode is simply a way to check my work.
                                    >>> Occassionally
                                    >>> I use the CSS menu and other DW features, but it's usually in an effort
                                    >>> to save
                                    >>> time when learning new code. Once I learn what I need I cut and paste
                                    >>> code when
                                    >>> I need it for future page builds.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Ya can't go wrong on this forum, these people are great!
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >

                                    • 15. Re: Is Dreamweaver ready as a corporate tool?
                                      Level 7
                                      nlneville wrote:
                                      > So my question remains, how is DW easier for the novice by comparison? I guess it's pointless
                                      > since Adobe has killed this app.

                                      Dreamweaver is not for novices unless they are being taught how to be
                                      professionals. If they want to be professional web developers then this
                                      is *the* tool for them.

                                      Dooza