14 Replies Latest reply on May 7, 2009 7:36 AM by Harm Millaard

    Another Media Export Woe

    V-Rod Guy

      Do these time results make sense?

       

      I have the latest CS4 Production bundle updates

      Running with Vista Business 64bit with a lot of stuff turned off (I like the classic mode)

      ASUS P6T Deluxe Mainboard

      12GB DDR3 1333MHz Memory

      i7 965 3.2GHz Extreme CPU Quad Core with HT (8 Threads)

      Nvidia GTX 280 PCIe 2.0 x16 Graphics Card

      Promise EX8650 (Intel Hardware RAID 6 Engine) PCIe x8

      8 Seagate 1.5TB SATA-300 drives (Raid 6) at about 400MB/sec avg. Read & Write, (2 - 3.8TB Partitions)

      Intel X25 80GB SSD for Operating System & Apps
      LG  6x Blu-Ray Burner

      PC Power & Cooling 1KW (1000 watt) Single Rail Power Supply

      Dual 24" Samsung 1920x1200 Desktop Displays Setup as Dual View In Nvidia Settings.

       

      This systems runs strong though when I take a simple Premiere timeline with sequence settings at XD Cam EX 720p and put 60 mins of 720p, M2T files from my JVC HD Camcorder, the editing part is smooth and clean, but when I try to simply export via media encoder to a multiplexed MPEG2 for DVD (720x480) progressive widescreen with dolby digital audio and 2 pass VBR. It takes 4 hours! Is four times real time considered fast?

       

      It seems that a friend of mine with Edius 5 can accomplish this in a fraction of this time. And, even burn it to Blu-Ray while I am still exporting. and that is on a system that is half of the specs I listed above. I am new to CS4 but not new to video editing. Am I missing something or is Adobe Media Encoder Slow?

       

      I am all ears and I value feedback. I hope to be able to share some in my future here on this forum.

       

      V

        • 1. Re: Another Media Export Woe
          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

          First, since you're performing 2 passes, it's actually 2x RT.

           

          Second, do you have any filters added in the AME, like a Noise Reduction filter?

           

          Scaling from HD to SD takes time, even with Premiere's below average scaling quality.

           

          Is your Quality slider set to 5?  What are the rest of your encoder settings?

           

          Do you have Maximum Render Quality set for your sequence?  For scaling from HD to SD, you should.  This will significantly increase render time.

           

          All these things need to be considered.

           

          -Jeff

          • 2. Re: Another Media Export Woe
            Harm Millaard Level 7
            This systems runs strong though when I take a simple Premiere timeline with sequence settings at XD Cam EX 720p and put 60 mins of 720p, M2T files from my JVC HD Camcorder, the editing part is smooth and clean, but when I try to simply export via media encoder to a multiplexed MPEG2 for DVD (720x480) progressive widescreen with dolby digital audio and 2 pass VBR. It takes 4 hours! Is four times real time considered fast?

             

            What JVC HD camcorder records in XDCAM EX format? Don't you mean simple HDV 720P format? For the rest, nice system, but why did you partition your disks, or did I misunderstand you?

            • 3. Re: Another Media Export Woe
              V-Rod Guy Level 1

              Harm, the JVC is the GY-HD200U. It is not the newer "B" model, but I record in 1280x720 60p. The only setting in CS4 that matches the native M2T file that I bring in is the XDCAM EX 720 60p. It has the 1:1 pixel aspect ratio and 48k stereo audio. These settings are not listed in the HDV group of settings. It seems to work great for editing. The DVCProHD 720 60p setting is the wrong dimensions. it is 960 x 720 with a different pixel aspect ratio. JVC is however supporting the XDCAM EX format on the newer "B" model as well as the newer GY-700 series.

               

              I partitioned my disks to help save some time when defragmenting. An 8TB volume would be a long haul and since I never fill a disk beyond 75% then the most I would ever be up against in a defrag would be no more than 3TB at a time. I use one partition for long form projects and the other for the many short projects. System disk is never partitioned and this is my first shot at SSD technology for system disk use. After a couple of months of use the read speed is still up around 250MB/sec. but the write speed has taken a hit down to 35MB/sec. This has prompted me to consider putting in a seperate SATA-300 drive for the paging/swap file.

               

              Other than the Adobe Media Encoder speeds it seems fast. I am going to try that same 1 hour project that took 4 hours to render and try it at VBR single pass and CBR at a slightly reduced bit rate.

               

              I will post those results here later.

               

              Vee

              • 4. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Vee,

                 

                Did you try this setting:

                 

                720P_preset.jpg

                 

                The write speed of your SSD is disappointing, I must say. Your argument about defragging is understandable, but what does it mean in practice? If you defrag on a daily basis (as I suggested in another thread, during your lunch break) do you feel any speed improvements? I have a 12 TB volume and have not yet felt the need to partition that volume.

                • 5. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                  V-Rod Guy Level 1

                  Harm,

                   

                  BTW, an edit to my earlier specs. Those partitions are 4.1 TB each.

                   

                  Defragmentation of my two media partitions are not my biggest concern. I do defrag in off time anyway. I am not happy with windows defrag utility though. I am going to give diskeeper a try on this system as it defrags all the time with zero cpu overhead. They also have a specific defrag and optimization utility for SSD drives. I was told that this would happen to this drive within a couple of months and was also told to maintain it with diskeeper if I wanted to maintain the over 100MB/sec write performance I had when it was built. That software is called HyperFast.  http://www.diskeeper.com/hyperfast/index.aspx

                   

                  As for those settings, I did try them but it was like strobish veiwing of the video. I am telling you that the EX settings are perfect for the 720 60p JVC M2T files. No problems there.

                   

                  Doing a high quality render to MPEG2 for DVD with CBR 8Mb/sec and Dolby Digital Audio at 192Kb/sec and CBR multiplexed is now taking 2 hours for a 1 hour timeline.

                   

                  Not having used Encore before, will Encore accept this single MPEG2 video file with embeded Dolby Digital audio?

                  • 6. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    ASUS P6T Deluxe Mainboard

                    12GB DDR3 1333MHz Memory

                    i7 965 3.2GHz Extreme CPU Quad Core with HT (8 Threads)

                     

                    http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drooling/drooling-3.gif

                    • 7. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Doing a high quality render to MPEG2 for DVD with CBR 8Mb/sec and Dolby Digital Audio at 192Kb/sec and CBR multiplexed is now taking 2 hours for a 1 hour timeline.

                       

                      Not having used Encore before, will Encore accept this single MPEG2 video file with embeded Dolby Digital audio?


                      For Encore I suggest to use elementary streams and not multiplexed. It should not be a problem, but the general consensus is that elementary streams are the preferred way. One advantage is that when you need to make some minor adjustments in either audio or video, you can just encode the stream you have modified and leave the other stream intact, as long as the total duration has not changed.

                       

                      I can't exactly compare your material, but on my system with a HDV 1080i timeline of 1:30 hours encoding to MPEG2DVD takes around 33 minutes.

                       

                      Here are the settings used:

                       

                      Encoding.jpg

                       

                      Mind you I had the quality slider at 4 but the rest comparable to your settings, CBR 8 Mbps, 1-pass and 224 Kbps 5.1 audio.

                       

                      So your encoding times appear to be long in comparison to mine. I got around 3 x RT. This is on a i7 920 running @ 3.6 GHz. The major difference between our systems is the raid controller and raid format used. I have an Areca ARC-1680iX-12 with 2 GB cache and use a 12 disk raid30. My average read speeds with HDTach hover around 800 MB/s instead of your average of around 400. But that does not explain why you get only 0.5 x RT while I get around 3 x RT. Maybe using quality at 4 instead of 5 explains the difference. If so, try it and look if you can discern any visual degradation.

                      • 8. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                        V-Rod Guy Level 1

                        Harm,

                         

                        You are correct that 5 definitly increases the burden on the system for render. I would venture to guess that the quality slider adjusts the quantization level and setting Premiere's to 5 is probably like selecting mastering quality in Grass Valley/Canopus's ProCoder. That turns a fast render into the slowest instantly, but the quality is stunning. I will try some more tests today, cause I know that I did at one time render a 61 min timeline in 21 min when I first built the system. Maybe that was before I decided to play with settings and just accepted default presets.

                         

                        Your raid is a great setup. Areca are tops and the extra 4 disks in your set help significantly. The performance and efficiency curve rise significantly when using 12 disks vs 8 in raid 5 or raid 6 modes.

                         

                        I am letting Diskeeper Pro Premiere 2009 and HyperFast do their cleanup of all the disks first. Then I will run a few more tests of that 1 hour timeline.

                         

                        Tell me a little more about your Dolby 5.1 settings. Does Media Encoder dirive 5.1 from the stereo 2.0 PCM audio? I would think that would add extra duty to the encoding process.

                         

                        Thank you for all your input!

                         

                        Vee

                        • 9. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Vee,

                           

                          All my projects have a master 5.1 track. I use the audio mixer to direct sound to the speaker(s) that I want, for instance background music to the rear speakers, overall music on all speakers, interview's to the front speakers, voice-overs to the center speaker, sounds from passing cars moving from one speaker to another, depending on the direction, etc. I use the Minnetonka plug-in for that. I think the extra overhead is rather slight.

                           

                          Even when I make a simple movie of a trip my wife made to Bali for instance and there is no audio editing at all, I still use 5.1 sound. Editing in those cases is limited to removing the unintended shots of sidewalks, when my wife forgot to turn the camera off.

                          • 10. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            Tell me a little more about your Dolby 5.1 settings. Does Media Encoder dirive 5.1 from the stereo 2.0 PCM audio? I would think that would add extra duty to the encoding process.

                             

                            I am with Harm on using the SurCode plug-in for DD 5.1 SS on nearly every Project, plus a DTS Track for many.

                             

                            To your specific question, with Audio Mixer you CAN spread out your stereo. It's also possible to add a dupe of the Music Track and add a touch of Delay and Reverb Effects, setting a bias to the rear speakers (set the bias to the front in your original Audio). Be careful, so as to not muck this up. Listen very, very carefully. Also, watch your Bass and Center knobs. Improper use of either/both can give you very muddy results.

                             

                            I always Export as an elemental stream, for the Audio, using AME, so there is no load. Video is done first (elemental stream), and then the Audio. These are brought into Encore separately.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                              V-Rod Guy Level 1

                              Thank You Hunt,

                               

                              I will have to start playing with 5.1 at some point and I appreciate your advice.

                               

                              Getting back to my original issue, rendering 1280 x 720 60p video out to 720 x 480 progressive MPEG2 for DVD is yeilding some very strange results.

                               

                              I have five different timeline/sequences in this one project. Each are one hour long. Three of them render out in two hours at a quality setting of 4. If I change that setting to 5 then the render takes four hours. Now that is understandable. What does not make sense is that two of the sequences will render in twenty minutes using the exact same settings that took one of the other sequences two hours. I am baffeled. It is driving me crazy to determine what is going on here. I am open to suggestions.

                               

                              Thanks in advance.

                               

                              Vee

                              • 12. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                                V-Rod Guy Level 1

                                Bingo, I found it!

                                 

                                There is a little pop out settings menu that seems to get its default settings from the sequence settings.

                                 

                                It pops out of the right hand side of the encoding settings dialog window.

                                 

                                Use Preview Files

                                Maximum Render Quality

                                Use XMP Data

                                 

                                If maximum render quality is checked, the render goes from 1/3 actual time (20min) to 2X actual time (2hrs)

                                 

                                How significant is this? Well I guess that depends. What quality is this setting actually affecting?

                                 

                                Now it has gone from mystery to curious..........

                                 

                                Vee

                                • 13. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                                  V-Rod Guy Level 1

                                  These settings seem to work well.

                                   

                                  Source timeline is 1280x720 60p

                                   

                                  Target Render is 720x480 30p (MPEG2 for DVD progressive)

                                   

                                  Adobe Media Encoder Settings

                                   

                                  No Filters

                                  Dolby Digital (ac3) Audio Not Multiplexed

                                  Video VBR single pass 3-6-9Mb/s, Quality 5

                                   

                                  Uncheck all three items in the right hand pop out menu (sequence settings)

                                   

                                  These settings allow a 60 min timeline to render in just under 20 min on the system listed at the top of this thread.

                                   

                                  Feedback?

                                   

                                  Vee

                                  • 14. Re: Another Media Export Woe
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    Those figures make sense, about three times faster than RT. The one thing to check though is whether your encoding settings can be optimized. I use:

                                    This bitrate calculator