1 2 Previous Next 46 Replies Latest reply on Jan 15, 2010 6:17 AM by Sherry L Baker

    PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign

    obyapka Level 1

      Hi,

       

      can someone kindly offer me some advice.

       

      I know nothing of PageMaker or InDesign but I've been tasked with gather information relating to upgrading "Adobe PageMaker CS3".

       

      I believe PageMaker expired at version 7, so I could presume the client is using InDesign CS3 - but they may also be using PageMaker 6.5 or 7.

       

      Is it possible to upgrade from PageMaker 6.5 / 7 to InDesign? Are there any issues to be aware of?

       

      Are there any backwards compatibility issues (data? macros?)

       

      many thanks

      B

        • 1. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
          BigJohnD Level 3

          It's time to move to InDesign.

           

          The current version of InDesign is CS4.  http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/

           

          You can download a 30 days trial version of InDesign CS4 which you can use to answer your questions above.

          This thead - http://forums.adobe.com/message/1913082#1913082 - will help too.

           

          InDesign will open and convert PageMaker publications from PM6 and later.   The resulting Indd publication will not be perfect and will require work.  The usual errors in the conversion are Tracking Values (minor), missing fonts (can be substituted if originals can not be found) and missing images.

           

          There are discounted upgrades to InDesign CS4 using your PM Licence number - UK£188.72 / € 241.78 / US$199.00.   However I'm sure once Adove decide to stop selling PM as it's no use on a new PC, then the discounts' days are numbered.

           

          PM is now very old and not designed to run on current OSs, so it's only worth hanging onto if you have computer with a contemporary OS, e.g Win2K.

           

          But there is no reason now not to upgrade, and once you've used InDesign and realise how stable and neat it is (creating PDFs is a breeze), you'll not want to use PM ever again.

           

          Iechyd da! John
          13:49 07/05/2009 BST

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
            ChrisJakarta Level 1

            I keep on thinking about upgrading to InDesign, but USD250 out of my budget is difficult/impossible to justify. As a non-profit that uses PM only for occasional updating a set of fact sheets and a training manual, I really don't need anything more than PM.

             

            I can now buy a computer with operating system for around USD400, MS Office 2007 for under USD100. Sorry, but the pricing of InDesign does seem way out of line for the likes of me. I need something between MS Publisher and InDesign. That is PM.

             

            It is sad that Adobe is ignoring the likes of me... Am I alone?

             

            Anyway, I'll continue to use PM running on an XP virtual machine. Cheaper to buy another copy of Windoes XP than upgrade!

             

            Chris

            • 3. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
              BigJohnD Level 3

              ChrisJakarta wrote:

               

              It is sad that Adobe is ignoring the likes of me... Am I alone?

               

              Anyway, I'll continue to use PM running on an XP virtual machine. Cheaper to buy another copy of Windoes XP than upgrade!

               

              Chris

               

              It's not that you are being ignored - it's that PM's 25 year old code is obsolete and un-developable.  Hence Indesign.  (How many other apps dating from the 80s are still around?)

               

              But the virtual machine route is certainly a practical workaround.

               

               

              Iechyd da! John
              09:45 09/05/2009

              • 4. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                ChrisJakarta Level 1

                BigJohnD wrote:

                 

                It's not that you are being ignored - it's that PM's 25 year old code is obsolete and un-developable.  Hence Indesign.  (How many other apps dating from the 80s are still around?)

                 


                Yes, clearly the challenges of developing a new version of PageMaker must be daunting. But I do believe there is a market for people like me, even if it is best filled by a emasculated version of InDesign (ala Microsoft). Because the reality is that I will not/cannot shell out that amount of money for a program which is way beyond my needs. And as for buying new? It's as impossible as developing PM.

                 

                I suspect there is a market for such a program at around 100-150 dollars, perhaps even 200. But not at more than 1500!

                 

                I'm probably flogging a dead horse. Clearly Adobe is only interested in high-end professionals. But I am sad...

                 

                Chris

                • 5. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                  Level 4

                  Pagemaker is dead.

                   

                  You can get an upgrade to PM 7 for $79. but you can't use it on the new Macs. If you want to use PM it would be best to find an old Mac that Boots OS9. you can get them cheap now.

                   

                  As far as writing the new code for a new Pagemaker Adobe has done this already Its called InDesign.

                  • 6. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                    ChrisJakarta Level 1

                    Buko. wrote:

                     

                    Pagemaker is dead.

                     

                    You can get an upgrade to PM 7 for $79. but you can't use it on the new Macs. If you want to use PM it would be best to find an old Mac that Boots OS9. you can get them cheap now.

                     

                    As far as writing the new code for a new Pagemaker Adobe has done this already Its called InDesign.

                    You are of course correct. But as the frequent comments in this forum and elsewhere prove, it refuses to lay down.

                     

                    Which upgrade are you referring to for $79? I already have v7.01a. I have seen reference to v7.0.2 but can find no details - does this actually exist, and if so is this what you are referring to?

                     

                    Rather than buy another (old) computer, I think the solution of using an XP Virtual Machine on top of Vista (or Windows 7) is a more feasible and simple solution - as I have described elsewhere.

                     

                    I'm sorry, but I find the continual pressure to upgrade to InDesign in this forum insensitive at best. InDesign is NOT a replacement for Pagemaker (in my view) - how can a program which costs four times as much as PM cost ten years ago be considered a replacement? Most replacements are in a similar price range, or indeed cheaper than the previous versions. Unwanted additional features (and probably complication) are no reason for me to spend so much money.

                     

                    Yes I know that there is an upgrade offer from PM. But even this is a lot of money to those who are not professionals. I'd also add that the local dealers here have little interest in selling the upgrade.

                     

                    As I say, PM refuses to die. But in my view an appropriately featured and priced replacement would both finally kill PM and provide a new revenue stream for Adobe - as well as satisfy a significant number of 'old' and loyal customers who are unhappy at being 'forced' to buy something they don't want at a price they can't afford.

                     

                    Chris

                    • 7. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                      Jay Chevako Level 3

                       

                      I'm sorry, but I find the continual pressure to upgrade to InDesign in this forum insensitive at best. InDesign is NOT a replacement for Pagemaker (in my view) - how can a program which costs four times as much as PM cost ten years ago be considered a replacement? Most replacements are in a similar price range, or indeed cheaper than the previous versions. Unwanted additional features (and probably complication) are no reason for me to spend so much money.

                       


                       

                      Pagemaker was a professional progam, it was never cheap, not now, not ten years ago. The price for indesign now is about the same that the price for pagemaker was in it's prime (Pm is selling for less now than it used to).

                       

                      As far as the continual pressure to upgrade. All of the forum regulars are Indesign users and have been for years, we would be remiss if we did not advise of a better solution. I always invite pagemaker users to stick around and answer questions, I think having current Pm users would be a great help.

                      Jay

                      • 8. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                        Level 4

                        continue to hide your head in the sand that's OK. But keep in mind there is less and less support for PM in the Printing industry. Unless you have an extra few Million to buy PM and find the people to rework it from scratch as the code is so old. It would be much cheaper to upgrade to InDesign. I guess you really don't have any idea as to the scope of a project to bring PM in to the 21st century. But then again Adobe did it. Its called InDesign.

                         

                        Just so that you know. Aldus could already see the writing on the wall with Pagemaker. They were the ones who started to make the new application called InDesign and was the reason that Adobe Bought Pagemaker from Aldus. So no matter even if Aldus had kept Pagemaker it would still be a dead application. and InDesign would still have replaced it.

                         

                        Sorry to confuse you with the upgrade talk I thought you had 6.5. the 7.0.2 version was just for Macs it was a tweek to help it install and run better on OSX in Classic mode.

                        • 9. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                          JProjasw Level 1

                          It is funny, I went doing research for a plug-in to open some old p65 files I have in my computer. Everything said in this thread is true... Pagemaker used to rock (and still does) at home, Once I plugged an old SCSI to my XP and the program even ran from that location, very very fast. No deny that Pagemaker is very good, stable and easy to use. Never the less, with the advent of new technologies, and literally the dismissal of the postscript language, windows Vista and other trends, Pagemaker tends to be floating forever in an iceberg further to reach and let to drift away.

                           

                          Lets consider this... In Design does everything Pagemaker did and more... Much more, in a faster easier way and in ways more manageable. I know Pagemaker since version 1, corel 1.0 and windows 1.0 for the 8087 processor (yes! in a green or amber phoshphor screen) A.K.A. as CRT. there was back then the Ventura Publisher which I remember I hated it because it saved everything in separate files and not as a compact file like pagemaker did. Some 15 or 20 years ago, I remember that The Diario El Tiempo (main newspaper in Colombia) purchased first Pagemaker 5.0 for PC and then they purchased the MAC versions, this was also a very stable and good version. (some old geeky computer history)

                           

                          But well, bottomline is that although Pagemaker is good, Indesign is the definite succesor.

                          • 10. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                            MWHebert Level 1

                            A very good point was made, though, that no one responded to.

                             

                            Why can't Adobe cater to the "Consumer" market like they do with Photoshop and Premiere Elements? Or doesn't InDesign lend itself to that? I don't have InCopy but an effort was made for that part of the market, with many functions deleted so Editors had a way to change copy in a layout but not the layout. Why not a version for the average user/casual Joe? And make "it" the upgrade from PageMaker. Per these threads there seems to be a demand for such.

                            • 11. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                              ChrisJakarta Level 1

                              I absolutely agree - but it is clear that InDesign's promoters as represented in this forum will never support this. For the tasks I have to carry out, PageMaker is more than adequate. I'd be willing to spend some money (e.g. about the same as I needed to get Office Home) to get an updated version that runs on Windows 7. But more than $250 is beyond my budget - and my needs. So I'll live with PageMaker, running in an XP Virtual Machine, which while not ideal, is more than $250 cheaper.


                              I'm certain that Adobe will not respond to this market (and profit) opportunity - they're not interested in the 'rest of us'. One day an open-source program will replace PageMaker for me. Until then PageMaker will do for me and my wallet will be that much thicker.

                               

                              Chris

                              • 12. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                Ian C. Matthew Level 2

                                "Yes, clearly the challenges of developing a new version of PageMaker must be daunting. But I do believe there is a market for people like me, even if it is best filled by a emasculated version of InDesign (ala Microsoft). Because the reality is that I will not/cannot shell out that amount of money for a program which is way beyond my needs. And as for buying new? It's as impossible as developing PM"

                                 

                                Many here promotr ID because it does the job for them in ways similar to PM and at the same time in ways PM never could do. If yuo wish to use PM, then fine. No one is stopping you. I'll certainly not criticise you for choosing to do so. Just be aware that modern operating systems on the MAC (latest OSX.??) will be out of bounds and although Windows has been kinder to PM, I would not risk PM on Vista or 7, even though some have claimed success of sorts on these modern operating systems.

                                 

                                If ID is too pricey (I agree, it aint cheap), than it may be time to look in another direction other than Adobe (SHOCK HORROR!). Consider PagePlus X4. This DTP app was originally called a "poor man's PageMaker", so you may feel at home with it even though it is  almost certainly more powerful and flexible than PM 6.5 and 7 despite its budget price. http://www.serif.com/pageplus/

                                 

                                Another budget option may be Xara which is really a vector app such as Illustrator and CorelDraw. It is much cheaper however and allows some basic DTP, though not to the same extent as ID, QXP, PM or PagePlus. http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/features/

                                 

                                Hope this helps.

                                 

                                Ian

                                • 13. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                  Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                  Chris,you can upgrade from PageMaker to InDesign for US$199:

                                   

                                  http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/upgrade/?view=available

                                  • 14. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                    ChrisJakarta Level 1

                                    Sadly, at least for us in Asia, that is (putting it politely) incorrect. Here it is $258. Please see my earlier message on this subject.

                                     

                                    Might be best not to hit my hot button .

                                     

                                    Chris

                                    • 15. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                      Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                      Sorry, I didn't realize you are not in the USA. Unfortunately, the abusive pricing policy of Adobe outside the USA is well know, and many of us have complained of it, but there are no signs of rectification. I fail to see why, if I choose to purchase the downloaded English version of a program, I should be charged more just because I reside outside the USA.

                                      • 16. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        MWHebert wrote:

                                         

                                        A very good point was made, though, that no one responded to.

                                        Why can't Adobe cater to the "Consumer" market like they do with Photoshop and Premiere Elements?

                                        Because there's simply no market there. There are many, cheap page layout programs available such as MS Publisher and Serif Plus. Adobe would make zero money competing with the likes of those.

                                         

                                        Edit: I see these were already mentioned.

                                         

                                        But I don't understand the horror. If Adobe had simply continued the Pagemaker name with InDesign would you all be complaining right now? You'd be told that in order to run Pagemaker on Windows 7 you'd have to upgrade to Pagemaker 8. Would that really make you feel better?

                                         

                                        What amazes me is that people complain about Adobe not being loyal to their customers but those customer haven't spent a dime on new software for almost ten years.

                                         

                                        Here's a news flash: Adobe is in busisness to make money and they've obviously determined that there is no money in developing a consumer level layout application.

                                         

                                        Bob

                                        • 17. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                          BigJohnD Level 3

                                          BobLevine wrote:

                                           

                                          If Adobe had simply continued the Pagemaker name with InDesign would you all be complaining right now? You'd be told that in order to run Pagemaker on Windows 7 you'd have to upgrade to Pagemaker 8. 

                                           

                                          That's exactly it!

                                          • 18. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                            MWHebert Level 1

                                            Wow Bob,

                                             

                                            By your reasoning then Adobe shouldn't have bothered with Photoshop Elements because there were so many low cost alternatives (Paint Shop, GIMP, et al). Nor would they even attempt to launch InDesign in the first place because Quark had 90% of the market.

                                             

                                             

                                            My line of reasoning was that PageMaker was very easy on the user and it was an Adobe product that served a need that InDesign really didn't address. An until this thread I never heard of Serif Plus.

                                             

                                            I don't know if Adobe has done any market research on this. But I just read an interview with Paul Brainerd, and he was astounded at the need for a low cost page layout program by his own research by simply talking to customers like small businesses. And Adobe has far better marketing than it's competitors to target such a market, even with Microsoft as a competitor. With a huge list of past PM owners, an easy to learn and use InDesign Elements and promotions like cross grades from MS Publisher and upgrades from PM, it would seem to be a very viable market for such a product from Adobe. At least for the Windows side, Apple not so much.

                                             

                                            Don't get me wrong, I love InDesign and really need it's power every day to do my job. But it would make sense to me that with some enlightened marketing from Adobe, that segment of the publishing market could be viable to pursue.

                                             

                                            (BTW- I notice Quark just released the Quark Promote web app and it looks to aim for this very public. That might be the way for Adobe to go.)

                                            • 19. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                              Apples and oranges. Everyone and his brother owns a digital camera.

                                               

                                              Additionally, Photoshop is practically a brand unto itself.

                                               

                                              Sorry, but I strongly disagree about the need for a low end pagelayout application just for the sake of it. If you strip InDesign down and come up with ID light you wind up with Serif Plus or Publisher. Publisher is already practically free.

                                               

                                              How does Adobe make any money trying to compete with that? Because until you answer that question, it will never happen. Going from PM to ID is only $199 now. Where the price point for ID light?

                                               

                                              Look, I get it. People want something simple and cheap. Why in the world does it have to be sold by Adobe?

                                               

                                              Bob

                                              • 20. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                Ian C. Matthew Level 2

                                                I often used to think that Adobe should make an ID 'lite' too. However, the DTP market has perhaps contracted too much for this to be worthwhile, so I think Bob has a point. There used to be several high end, mid range and low end DTP apps 10 - 20 years ago. Budget titles such as Timeworks/PowerPublisher, Express Publisher (DOS and Win), Envision Publisher etc, are now abondonware or are hardly publicised at all. Even the high end Ventura seems abandoned by Corel these days.

                                                 

                                                If someone needs a budget DTP app, they'll do one of three things:

                                                 

                                                Firstly, use PagePlus. Serif even have a free cut down version on their site.

                                                 

                                                Secondly, use a graphics app. CorelDraw, Freehand (even though development has stopped), DrawPlus, Canvas (even though hardly anyone uses it) and Xara can be used in a sort of DTP mode. Many small print shops here in Britain use CorelDraw for this purpose amongst others.

                                                 

                                                Thirdly, use MS Publisher. Publisher is often slated for is limited feature set and hand holding. However, it has improved over the years. More importantly, many users have it installed anyway as part of MS Office (depending on the version). Despite not being anywhere in the same league as ID or QXP, it is still tons better than relying on MS Word for page layout.

                                                 

                                                Funnily enough, Aldus did release a cut down version of PM called PageMaker Classic. I used it myself and consider it my first 'real' DTP app having used NewsMaster (don't ask!!!!), Envision Publisher and Express Publisher beforehand. What was classic about this version of PM was that it was largely based on version 4.0 when the latest version was PM 5.0. If Adobe did this with ID, how cut down would ID Elements have to be to become affordable to you?

                                                 

                                                I can't see Adobe making much money from ID Elements as it does with PS Elements. PS Elements caters for digital photo hobbyists and amateurs. Just look how many people have digital cameras and camera phones.

                                                 

                                                Ian

                                                • 21. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                  Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                  Hey Bob,

                                                   

                                                  Since you are the resident expert here, I have another issue with upgrading to InDesign CS4.

                                                   

                                                  Stubborn users.

                                                   

                                                  One in particular who REFUSES to even TRY InDesign and is constantly going back to her tried and true PageMaker 7.0 on her Mac.  Keeping in mind I had to cheat to even get the Classic OS9 to work on her system... it just irritates me to no end that she refuses to upgrade... even though I have a copy of CS4 and Leopard that I bought JUST for her!

                                                   

                                                  I keep telling her that she is just a mac update away from losing Classic functionality... Apple could potentially make a change that could kill her ability to run PageMaker at all. Still she balks and ignores the issue.

                                                   

                                                  I'd just pull rank and redo her system, but she's somewhat of a grumpy dinosaur of the office, and even though the owner knows it has to be done, no one wants to deal with her caniption fit (or the office politics) by outwardly forcing her.

                                                   

                                                  So my question...

                                                   

                                                  Is there any way I can secretly sabotage Classic in such a way that PageMaker will no longer function?  If I could time it with a Mac OS update, we could blame it on Apple and save our office relations, while STILL getting what we want. A FULLY UPDATED department!

                                                   

                                                  Please don't think poorly of me. I'm just at my wits end. I'm ever so tired of her whining about how "such and such" can't be done... and spending an hour doing a work around when I could just pop it into InDesign and fix it in less than five minutes.

                                                   

                                                  Help a chick?

                                                  • 22. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                    I assume it's an Intel Mac if you have Snow Leopard sitting there.

                                                     

                                                    Talk to the boss and then just wipe the machine out and do what you have to do.

                                                     

                                                    Get the boss' blessing in writing to CYA.

                                                     

                                                    Sheesh...I hate these inmates running the asylum situations.

                                                     

                                                    Bob

                                                    • 23. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                      Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                      It's worse than an inmates running the asylum situation. It's a Family Business... and no one wants to tell "Grandma" to get with the program for fear of retribution.

                                                       

                                                      I was told I could do whatever I wanted... but in the end, you KNOW I'll catch it no matter what. Small office... BIG problems. I heard the last time someone forced her to upgrade from AmiPro to Word, someone's dog got run over in the parking lot.

                                                       

                                                      Okay, not really... but there were a lot of squealing tires.

                                                       

                                                      So no one wants to help me wreck the system that shouldn't even work to begin with, huh?

                                                       

                                                      ::headdesk::

                                                      • 24. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Wait...they forced her to move from Ami Pro to Word? That would leave me pretty cranky, too.

                                                         

                                                        But I am intrigued. How are getting classic to run on an Intel machine?

                                                         

                                                        Bob

                                                        • 25. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                          Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                          It's not an Intel Machine. (sorry for the confusion) She's running Tiger with Classic.  I have a new Intel iMac with Snow Leopard just *waiting* for her... but she needs to let go of PageMaker or it will never see her desk :/

                                                           

                                                          I'm all "New Shiny Lemme at it" and was TOTALLY ready to jump on the Snow Leopard bandwagon... and her... well... even the prospect of the new machine hasn't swayed her... what is *wrong* with people???

                                                           

                                                          Then again... if she doesn't ever change... I might be able to buy this computer for a song. Hrmmm... maybe she's right. PageMaker isn't so bad...

                                                           

                                                          (evil grin)

                                                          • 26. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                            Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                                            Yes, PageMaker isn't all that bad after all. And if the firm can afford to have a new Intel machine with CS4 sitting on a desk waiting for her to make up her mind, surely they can buy you an old G4 that runs on true Mac OS 9.2.2, where you'll have PageMaker working at its best.


                                                            I had weird dreams about accessing Gandma's Mac when she is not looking and removing little pieces from the PageMaker folder, one at a time, until it completely fails to work, but I cannot advice you to do that...

                                                            • 27. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                              Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                              I guess the real issue here is that she is supposed to be helping me... and it's difficult for someone to help when they don't have the same program or it takes 5 times as long to accomplish something due to the slowness of the program or the work-arounds one has to go through to do something relatively simple. So... here I sit with 30 job tickets on my desk and she has nothing to do... it's frustrating that she could be helping me but when I hand her a job ticket, she opens the folder, sees it's in InDesign and hands it back to me with an "I dunno how to do this..."

                                                               

                                                              GRRRR. Is it too much to want my back up to actually um... back me up?

                                                               

                                                              I must admit... I have thought about the deletion of PM files one by one... but she'd just reinstall PageMaker. I really think Classic needs to go. We had to jump through so many hoops to get it installed I really doubt we'd be able to fix it if it stopped working.

                                                               

                                                              Hmm...

                                                               

                                                              I wonder if a simple Java applet and a creatively named Alias would do the trick... all it has to do is create a dialog box when she thinks she is loading PageMaker  that tells her that Classic is no longer supported as of upgrade blah blah blah.

                                                               

                                                              Oooooh.... could it be that simple???

                                                               

                                                              That's it. I'm taking a trip to the Dark Side...

                                                              I hear there are cookies.

                                                              • 28. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                BigJohnD Level 3

                                                                Teaching an old dog new tricks?  or using all that experience in a new way?

                                                                 

                                                                Maybe it's more than just a new system and application - maybe it needs a new office layout and new desk, with token items from the old regime. After backing up all the essential stuff, can you arrange for the old Mac to die? Subsitute a dead or damaged HDD, for example, so there's lots of terminal errors. Followed by a ceremonial burial.

                                                                 

                                                                There has to be changes elsewhere though, so as to avoid feelings of victimisation and so on. But she has to move on, even if she chooses to kick and scream, or more likely sulk and moan, on the way.

                                                                • 29. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                  Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                                  I was hired to update the department and get it running smoothly. I agreed about there having to be changes elsewhere so as not to single anyone out so when I totally revamped the entire system three years ago... I set up a new network, running wiring through walls rather than on the floor as they had been. I set up with a brand new server, started a new backup and job filing system. Once everyone got used to those, I added new computers and new programs. Everyone else has adjusted well. She's the only one that is bucking the system.

                                                                   

                                                                  Any other place I've worked I have terminated employees for continued refusal to follow standard procedure. I've *never* been in this sort of situation before where an employee got special treatment that undermined authority.

                                                                   

                                                                  THREE YEARS of "I don't know that program" and "I was just thrown into this position... I've not being given the chance to learn" is making my blood boil.  I've sat down with her. I've given her Dummies books. I've bookmarked lessons online.  THREE YEARS is plenty of time to pick up a new program. Every time she says these things I have to bite my tongue and choose my reply carefully.  What I want to say (which is something along the lines of "If you find it too difficult to learn in 3 years what I learned in a week, perhaps we can find a place for you in Bindery) could lead to an all out war. I'd like to keep my job... and I say with all sincerity that I know I'm good at what I do, but I'm more replaceable than "Grandma".

                                                                   

                                                                  Sigh.

                                                                   

                                                                  I just realized that I hijacked this thread and really didn't mean to... I figured my original question sort of fit under the subject... but now that I have a chance to look back I see I've really deviated.

                                                                   

                                                                  Mods feel free to move me to the corner... I'll do better next time.

                                                                  • 30. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    It's fine. This forum gets next to no traffic anyway and if you feel a little better for having vented, that's good.

                                                                     

                                                                    Bob

                                                                    • 31. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                      Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                                                      Sherry L Baker wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      ...

                                                                      I just realized that I hijacked this thread and really didn't mean to... I figured my original question sort of fit under the subject... but now that I have a chance to look back I see I've really deviated.

                                                                      No harm done. Except that you couldn't award points to the authors of any of the good answers you got...

                                                                       


                                                                      Sherry L Baker wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      ...

                                                                       

                                                                      Mods feel free to move me to the corner... I'll do better next time.

                                                                       

                                                                      As far as I know, John is the only "mod" around here, if there is any. And he is too much of a knight in his shining armour to ever remove a message from a damsel in distress just because it's not in a new thread. Also, his suggestion of replacing her HDD isn't so bad. Defective SIMMs could be even better, though.

                                                                       

                                                                      By the way, what happened with "Iechyd da!", John?

                                                                       

                                                                      Message was edited by: Claudio González. Reason: addition.

                                                                      • 32. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                        BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                        I'm a host.

                                                                         

                                                                        Bob

                                                                        • 33. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                          BigJohnD Level 3

                                                                          I'm not a mod, but do have rights in PM FAQs which I don't think anyone can see judging by the distinct absence of views!

                                                                           

                                                                          What happened to Iechyd da!?  Not sure really. I never got round to sorting out the shortcut to add it in these wierd forums.

                                                                           

                                                                          Iechyd da! John
                                                                          23:23 12/01/2010 GMT

                                                                          • 34. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                            BigJohnD Level 3

                                                                            Sherry L Baker wrote:

                                                                            Any other place I've worked I have terminated employees for continued refusal to follow standard procedure. I've *never* been in this sort of situation before where an employee got special treatment that undermined authority.

                                                                             

                                                                            THREE YEARS of "I don't know that program" and "I was just thrown into this position... I've not being given the chance to learn" is making my blood boil.  I've sat down with her. I've given her Dummies books. I've bookmarked lessons online.  THREE YEARS is plenty of time to pick up a new program. Every time she says these things I have to bite my tongue and choose my reply carefully.  What I want to say (which is something along the lines of "If you find it too difficult to learn in 3 years what I learned in a week, perhaps we can find a place for you in Bindery) could lead to an all out war. I'd like to keep my job... and I say with all sincerity that I know I'm good at what I do, but I'm more replaceable than "Grandma".

                                                                            As someone approaching the geriatric age, I'm afraid I have seen the dinosaurs . They just get left behind to die - at the company's expense, usually.

                                                                             

                                                                            I don't know your managerial system, but if they're not open to this issue and are unsupportive, then they're going to struggle and become inefficient, as the everyone else moves on and they carry this person as a passenger.

                                                                             

                                                                            As for the "I was just thrown into this position... I've not being given the chance to learn", has she actually stated what should be done or what she would prefer?   Sending her off to college for a day a week may help her while her absence would help you!

                                                                             

                                                                            After the training, management could have the dreaded targets dished out around the place, and if she fails to meet hers, then performance management procedures kick in - to give her a choice: improve or go.

                                                                             

                                                                            Much as she frustrates you and your desire to confront her increases and gathers appeal, sadly I doubt if it's in your best interests, though I'd be tempted to give her a smack in teeth AKA a Liverpool Kiss.

                                                                             

                                                                            What do your colleagues think and feel about her?

                                                                             

                                                                            Iechyd da! John
                                                                            23:42 12/01/2010 GMT

                                                                            • 35. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                              Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                                                              If you are, you are certainly of the old type, and hide it very well. Congratulations on both counts.

                                                                              • 36. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                                Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                BigJohnD wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'm not a mod, but do have rights in PM FAQs which I don't think anyone can see judging by the distinct absence of views!

                                                                                 

                                                                                What happened to Iechyd da!?  Not sure really. I never got round to sorting out the shortcut to add it in these wierd forums.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Iechyd da! John
                                                                                23:23 12/01/2010 GMT

                                                                                Very unfortunately, I can't.


                                                                                Did you ever hear of that gem of a little program called TypeIt4Me?

                                                                                • 37. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                                  Claudio González Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                  As someone already in the geriatric age, I have been witness to similar situations on many occasions, and I think they have no solution within the rules of any company that is a family affair, specially if the personnage in question is a grandmother -actually or figuratively. Replacing SIMSs or the like seems to me to be the only viable alternative; replacing the internal battery with a weak one would be easily found by someone with minimal computer knowledge. Fans are also easily damaged, and rather expensive to replace, at least over here. And I have not run out of pecaminous suggestions; only that I don't think it is right to post them here.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                                    Sherry L Baker Level 1

                                                                                    Hello John   Welcome to the drama that is my office!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    We have offered one on one training. I sat down with her myself... she just *refuses* to get it. I even stick to the basics... things she needs to know for even PageMaker... and she acts like it's rocket science! I gave her the For Dummies books, so she could have a step by step reference for when I wasn't here. It's never been opened. I gave her links to online classes, local tech college classes (company was going to pick up the bill), and she made excuses.  No, it's not that no one gave her a chance in 3 years to learn... it is that she has never ONCE applied herself to the task.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The other staff are getting tired of upper management making excuses for her, and upper management knows something has to be done but doesn't want to be the one to do it. We've had layoffs in the past year and I think they are just reluctant to let anyone else go in such hard times -- even though in this situation, it isn't doing the company any favors to let her stay and be unproductive.  It creates more work for me, everyone else, and makes for a really toxic work environment. She complains, balks, makes excuses, and there are eyerolls. They want something done -- it is just that no one with the power to do so has the brass to take a stand and issue the ultimatum.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So... that said...

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I had a very interesting evening. I taught myself to script. I have been wanting to learn, I suppose this situation gave me just the added incentive I needed to go ahead and DO it.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    It was easy, actually. A simple script disguised as an application renamed identically to PageMaker. Copied the icon over as well to complete the disguise. The unsuspecting person would click on what they think is Pagemaker and it returns a warning dialog box informing them that their fantasies of a Forever PageMaker have come to an abrupt end... as Classic is no longer supported as of the last system upgrade.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Technically... it's true. Classic IS no longer supported as of the very last release of Mac OSX... and it really *is* in a persons best interest to copy over needed files from their OS 9 system folder before installing a new operating system. When they click okay... the dialog box informs them to restart their system.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    (daydreams) ... I can hear the scream of terror, now...

                                                                                     

                                                                                    All I have to do now is wait until the next time Apple has an update and replace her PageMaker alias with it.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm going to hell, aren't I?

                                                                                    • 39. Re: PageMaker 6.5/7 & InDesign
                                                                                      BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                      Yup...but you going with a big smile on your face.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Bob

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