1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply on May 16, 2009 9:14 PM by R. Cole

    CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline

    JohnWarburton

      Hello,

       

      We have a problem with audio going missing on the timeline. The project's clips are selected and added to the timeline as usual, but after a few save/load cycles, we find that the audio and video of a clip in the timeline become unlinked, and the audio itself becomes silent. Its filename/clipname is still correct. The waveform display in the timeline is nothing but a flat line, and the clip when played from the timeline is silent. However, linking audio and video once more, and doing a match-frame produces a clip in the source monitor which, from the same stored media, DOES have working audio.

       

      I also find that sometimes the mere act of pressing M to match the frame results in the audio magically re-appearing in the timeline even without replacing the whole clip.

       

      This is making it impossible to edit to any schedule. Can this be resolved?

       

      Thank you for reading this,

      yours,

      J

        • 1. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
          Eddie Lotter Level 4

          Welcome to the forums.

          Some believe this to be a symptom of the 4.0.1 update. You can try reverting to 4.0 or wait for the 4.1 update due the end of May.

          Cheers
          Eddie

          • 2. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Maybe, if you supply sufficient details.

            • 3. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
              JohnWarburton Level 1

              Thanks for examining this issue.

               

              Unfortunately, we're unable to revert to CS4.0 because the advertised AAF export is a necessary feature of the daily workflow and it appears to be faulty in 4.0. (The CS4.0.1 user is editing SD-resolution, and we're mirroring the edit on an Avid in HD every now and then).

               

              I am new to these forums and unused to the exact nature of the detail, regarding this set-up, which would be helpful to you in order to see what advice may be possible regarding this problem. What would be good to tell you? The project and all its media are stored on an external hard drive but, in case there's a strangeness with waveform or render files, I've transplanted the project and all its renders (but not the media, which will likely become very extensive indeed) into the default Adobe storage directory under the user's name on the main computer C: drive where there is indeed plenty of room.

               

              We're using Vista Professional 32-bit on a very recemt Vaio laptop with some kind of Intel dual-core processor running around 2.2GHz.

               

              Is that of use?

               

              yours,

              J

              • 4. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                Eddie Lotter Level 4

                Do all of your clips do this or only specific formats? (Like MPEG variants.)

                Let us know what your source clip details are.

                If they are MPEG you can try to demux them and import the video and audio separately.

                Cheers
                Eddie

                • 5. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                  JohnWarburton Level 1

                  Each clip exhibits this fault until the re-link happens and the M key is pressed.

                   

                  All clips are downconverted from the original XDCAM HD 422 media (whose codec is a mysterious omission, considering that the 35Mbit/s and lower codecs are included) into DV format MOV files with audio uncompressed at 48kHz sampling rate.

                   

                  Although the long GOP files remain on another machine here, the CS4.0.1 machine sees only the MOV/DV codec files.

                   

                  yours,

                  J

                  • 6. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Some info has been given that narrows it down a tiny bit. Next questions:

                     

                    1. From what camera and in what way was the material ingested to the PC?

                    2. What codec is in use? Use Gspot to discover this.

                    3. What sequence settings were used? If using custom settings, provide a screenshot of your sequence settings.

                    4. What is your disk setup? Looks like a Vaio notebook with a single drive and one or more external ones. What connection do you use for the external(s), USB, firwire or eSATA?

                     

                    Just to get you started with basic details. I may be back for more pertinent info.

                    • 7. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                      Eddie Lotter Level 4

                      the CS4.0.1 machine sees only the MOV/DV codec files.

                       

                      Are you certain they are strictly DV? That is the preferred format and seems very odd that PPro is having a problem with them.

                      It is possible there is something else interfering.

                      Try these troubleshooting tips.

                      Cheers
                      Eddie

                      • 8. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                        JohnWarburton Level 1

                        OK Haam, I hope these answers are accurate:

                         

                        The original camera was the Sony PDW-700 running at 50Mbit/s recording XDCAM HD 422. It was converted to DV MOV files by Sony Vegas 8.0, and these MOV files alone are the files in use on the Premiere Pro CS4 system. The video codec within the MOV wrapper is the Apple DV codec (25i 720x576) and the audio is 16-bit 48000Hz uncompressed stereo.

                         

                        The sequence settings were DV/DVCAM Widescreen 16:9 with 48k audio -- nothing unusual at all.

                         

                        You have correctly assumed the disk setup. The one external drive is a USB attached drive with lots of spare room.

                         

                        best wishes,

                        J

                        • 9. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Nice camera, BTW!!!

                           

                          Where your problem may lie and what I do not understand, when the source material was converted with Vegas (PC), why convert it to MOV (MAC) and then edit in PR on a PC again with Vista? Maybe if the workflow were adjusted to convert in Vegas to MS DV AVI, bypassing anything QT/MOV and editing in PR on the PC you avoid the rather shaky QT/MOV format. That may be the cause of your problems. A lot of people have had problems with QT.

                          • 10. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Eddie,

                             

                            While it could well have re-surfaced with the update, I encountered this exact behavior in PrPro2. It happened to me, after a Render of the Timeline. There was a long discussion thread on the loss of the Audio and the Waveform Display going "flat-line." Unfortunately, that was just before the first Adobe forum change and that article disappeared. Stanley Jones found it in a "lost" archive, but that was just before the recent forum change.

                             

                            There were many comments and suggestions that followed that thread. Unfortunately, I do not recall what the exact resolution to the issue was. It had not happened to me before, and has yet to happen again. I was able to manually change out the Audio on the Timeline with the sources from the Project Panel, so I was able to get on with the editing. The "resolution" came too late to save me the work - but it was an "all's well, that ends well" sorta' thing.

                             

                            In one form, or another, this behavior has been around for a bit. If I can ever locate that thread, I'll post a live link to it. I fear, however, that with two Adobe forum changes, it's gone to Byte-Heaven.

                             

                            To the OP,

                             

                            I was able to do as described above - replace each Audio Clip with the one from the Project Panel, and the problem never surfaced again for that, or any other, Project on my computers.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Maybe the simplest and easiest solution to your problem is to Google for a converter that converts the Apple DV codec into a MS DV codec.

                              • 12. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                nevessa

                                I just had the same problem with a P2 project, exactly as described above, so don't go spinning your wheels about DV codecs. Other than manually rebuilding my whole edit clip by clip (what a drag!) has anyone come up with a global or relatively easy way to relink or recover this audio?

                                • 13. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                  JohnWarburton Level 1

                                  Thanks again for the help. Maybe we will try to convert from one codec into another while doing our best to keep the file sizes the same, so Premiere Pro doesn't get upset. The timecode (from the metadata in the project file) must stay the same anyway or it won't link up with the media on the Avid -- we don't have troubles with MOV files elsewhere, especially on the Avids which themselves will not create AVI files greater than 2GB in size anyway (file limit in old spec).

                                   

                                  best wishes,

                                  J

                                  • 14. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    John,

                                     

                                    Converting Apple DV to MS DV AVI is just a matter of changing the wrapper, nothing changes in the inside or changes the file size. It is like pulling off a French cap and putting on a Brittish cap. It completely changes the look but nothing happened to the person wearing the cap. That simple change in appearance may help you to solve the problem.

                                    • 15. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Oh Harm, silly person! You know that you are a totally different person, when you put your French cap on... [Grin]

                                       

                                      Now, back to the Audio issue. I do believe that it was the use of the M key shortcut, that was the answer. Only wish that I could locate that old thread, 'cause there was a lot of good discussion on the issue.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                        nevessa Level 1

                                        Thanks for the 'M' key fix to this problem, Hunt. Once I understood that it has nothing to do with the SELECTED segment it worked perfectly. You have to place the play cursor over the silent segment and make sure you highlight the track(s) it resides on, hit the 'M' key and the audio and waveform instantly appear. My whole edit took just a few minutes to restore this way.

                                         

                                        Edit: Gratuitous personal remark deleted by forum moderator.

                                         

                                        Message was edited by: Jerry.K

                                        • 17. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                          JohnWarburton Level 1

                                          Indeed, the M key appears to work astonishingly quickly. We have not yet transcoded the material to AVI from MOV. It would appear the amount of time this would take (the footage is extensive) would slow the documentary down too much, and production would lose momentum.

                                           

                                          Since moving the project folder (and all temporary and render files) from the pluggable hard-drive to the computer's own SATA hard drive (but keeping all the media on the external drive) we have not seen a repeat of this problem. It is now the early hours of the morning and we seem to be working smoothly. Tight deadlines but that's normal in the UK for documentaries these days.

                                           

                                          best wishes,

                                          J

                                          • 18. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Glad that it worked. I wish that I could track down that original article, because there was a ton of good replies, and the matter was covered from several different directions. Similar can occur with Copy/Paste and Audio, but there seem to be some other instances, where it happens. In my case, IIRC, the Audio was perfectly fine and played perfectly, UNTIL I Rendered, and then it went "flat-line." In many hundred Projects since, I have not seen this development, but that probably means that I did not do the exact same things in any of those.

                                             

                                            Good luck with the Project,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                              R. Cole

                                              Hi everyone,

                                              I just made the jump from Premiere Elements 3 to the CS4 Master Collection. Talk about going from 0-60.

                                               

                                              Anyway, I have only been running CS4 for a few days and I have this same audio issue. The main dialog (narration) is still in tact but the tone that was inserted with my bars is flat lined as is the music score I hade in audio 2 and 3. The Re-linking of the bars and tone and hitting "M" worked to restore the tone. But since there is no Video to link up the music tracks to I haven't figured out an equivalently easy fix. Right now I am forced to bring the music into the timeline, trim it to the right size on another audio track and copy over the key frames tro match what I had.

                                               

                                              Does anyone know of a better way to handle this issue with an audio only track that flatlines (besides zap it with the paddles; "CLEAR")?

                                               

                                              Thanks,
                                              Cole

                                              • 20. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                nevessa Level 1

                                                I had a few audio only clips in my project too. To restore them make sure you only have the track selected that contains those clips and not some video track as well. Place the play cursor over the flatlined clip and hit 'M'. It should come right back. It did for me anyway.  Good luck.

                                                • 21. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  One aspect that seemed common to some of the problems with "flat-lined" Audio was Copy/Paste. This was not true for ALL Audio Assets, that exhibited the behaviour, but for many.

                                                   

                                                  For your case, I wonder if just doing a Render/Replace (basically what also happens, when one chooses Edit in SoundBooth/Audition), would help. This will also create a new Audio file, which will appear in the Project Panel (along with the original Audio Clip). Not sure if this would help, as you might just get another instance of a flat-lined Audio file - not much use.

                                                   

                                                  I'm surprised that the M key doesn't work on your Audio-only Assets. It appeared that the problem was just with PrPro's Link to the files, and not to the real files, themselves. When I'd gone back to the original material, the Audio was there. It was only the instance of it, on the Timeline, where the problem occurred.

                                                   

                                                  IIRC, none, who weighed-in, had Audio only Clips. Mine were all associated with Video Clips.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                    R. Cole Level 1

                                                    Nevessa-

                                                     

                                                    Thinking back, I think what was missing was placing the play cursor over the clip when I hit M. I had clicked on it but the cursor was elsewhere. I had a few others later in the timeline that were audio and video that I hadn't noticed before. The fix wasn't working then either until I remembered to drag the cursor over. Thanks for the help.

                                                     

                                                    T_W_S-

                                                    You were right on saying it was a copy paste situation. I actually tried to take the easy way out in continuing a Premiere Elements project in PP CS4. I was able to open the PE3 file in CS4 but the timeline didn't come over, just the clips in the project bin. So I tried copying and pasting the timeline and it came over. After doing this I decided to just start over in a new project and recapture the narration in CS4. PE3 gave me quite the headache over the last month which is what brought me to take the plunge to the Master Collection. But the trouble clips were copied from another timeline at first. Thanks a bunch.

                                                     

                                                    Cole

                                                    • 23. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                      Glad that you got it sorted. I had forgotten the CTI part of the M-key trick. Thanks for reminding me. I feel certain that it was included in the "fix" in my old post.

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                        dtoavs

                                                        Similiar situation -- sort of.  I have a sequence that includes 4 video clips with audio plus a background audio track in Audio 2.  When I playthe sequence in the Program Monitor, only the audio from the first clip and the background track play.  The audio for clips 2, 3, and 4 are silent even though the wave form appears in the Audio 1 track.

                                                         

                                                        After working on the sequence briefly, the audio in the first clip shifts to a part of the clip outside the in and out points I inserted via the Source Monitor.  Using "M" to Match Frame doesn't seem to help either.

                                                         

                                                        Thoughts?

                                                        • 25. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          For the first part, my *guess* would be that the Gain has been set to - ∞ someplace. It can be on the AT (Audio Track) Volume band, via Rt-clicking and Adjust Gain, or in the Audio Mixer. Look in the Audio Mixer for some clues.  I am assuming that when played from the Source Monitor, or via the Project Panel, you have Audio. Right? What happens if you Render & Replace these Audio Clips (basically creating a WAV file for each)? If still not luck, Open that WAV file in SoundBooth, or Audition and listen and observe the Waveform there.

                                                           

                                                          Now, the second situation is uncommon behavior indeed. I've never seen, nor read of that. I'd try the Render & Replace, when it's first brought in, so the In & Out Points are correct. Curious.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                            dtoavs Level 1

                                                            The Render and Replace fixed my out-of sync audio track in the first clip.  Thanks.  Any success is appreciated.

                                                             

                                                            When I right-click on the any of the 3 audio tracks of the silent clips and select Audio Gain from the menu, the last line in the dialog box displays: Peak Amplitude: -1$ dB  ( I executed the Clean Media Cache Database process per Adobe's help files to no avail.)

                                                             

                                                            The clip that plays (and the background track in Audio 2) shows Peak Amplitude: 0 dB, but I can't figure out how to make modifications in the other clips that will get the strange reading to be equal to 0.  When I take the audio to SoundBooth, there is no sound or waveform even though it appears in the PremiereProCS4 timeline.

                                                             

                                                            I wondered if the -1$ dB had to do with a format issue, but all clips came from the same shoot, same photographer, same process.

                                                            • 27. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                              At first, I thought I was seeing a typo, but now I know that I am not. What you typed, is actually what you see. Dang, that's a strange one. It almost HAS to be some corruption in the Conforming, when Importing into PrPro. Stepping back a bit in your workflow, tell us more about these files. Maybe you have, and I just can't find it now.

                                                               

                                                              In Soundbooth, can you Import just the Audio directly from the Video file (assume that its a muxed source)? I do not work in SB, only Audition, so I do not know what capabilities it might have, or lack. If you CAN get the Audio from the file (NOT from the PrPro version of it - the original) you should be able to do a Save_As PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit and then Import that into PrPro - it will generate a PEK file (unless it can use the one from SB), but should not have to Conform. Remember, this is from your original AV file and NOT from anything in PrPro. If PrPro is messing up, you want to go to the source before it does so.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                dtoavs Level 1

                                                                It's time to reboot the machine and start fresh.  Too many squirrelly things happening.

                                                                 

                                                                I'm methodically working through various options of setting In and Out points in the Source Monitor, moving the segment to the Timeline by Drag n Drop vs Insert, set the head to the In point before inserting, using Render and Replace in the audio track, deleting all the old renderings/extractions, Close-ing the clips in the Source Monitor before bringing them back for inserting, etc.  I haven't been able to come up with a logical reason for why the audio sometimes works, sometimes shifts, sometimes disappears.

                                                                 

                                                                Regarding the clips themselves:  The clips were sent to me from the agency without extensions.  The thinking was that I could impose the extension I need and go with it.  Well, the only extension that would import into PPCS4 was .avi so I added the .avi and voila!  (This is where you rub your beard and quote an ancient Chinese proberb.)

                                                                • 29. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                  Use GSpot to find the codec in use and report back.

                                                                  • 30. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                    dtoavs Level 1

                                                                    Attached is a jpg of the GSpot results for one of the clips that is giving me audio problems.   The only variable among the clips, according to GSpot appears to be the one index:  Container: SysBitrate:

                                                                    • 31. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                      Hm-m-m. it's showing that the "CODEC's are undetermined." That is odd behavior indeed. You're on a PC, right? You *should* have all of the MS CODEC's available. G-Spot is also showing the Audio to be .WMA. I'd have expected .WAV. WMA is often used for 5.1 SS (amongst others) with the WMV-9 CODEC's.

                                                                       

                                                                      I'm wondering if some of your CODEC's have become corrupted, or have been messed up, with regards to their entries in the Registry.

                                                                       

                                                                      You haven't installed any CODEC "packs" have you?

                                                                       

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                       

                                                                      PS I *think* that Harm has a link to a CODEC utility. Do not know what all it does, besides setting priority, but might be worth a look. If it's not Harm, then maybe someone can step forward and add to the thread.

                                                                      • 32. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                        Harm Millaard Level 7
                                                                        I'd have expected .WAV. WMA is often used for 5.1 SS (amongst others) with the WMV-9 CODEC's.

                                                                         

                                                                        As it appears to be the case here. The file is indicated as WMV for video and WMA for audio. Not ideal for editing, but even stranger is that the codec is not recognized as such. Maybe a reinstall of Windows Media Player can correct that. And, no Bill, I do not have a link to a codec utility. I HATE additional codecs. They seem to mess up way too much. I only edit editable material and if somebody comes along with unsuited material it is their bad luck. They have to figure out how to convert it to something editable.

                                                                        • 33. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                          Harm,

                                                                           

                                                                          Everyone knows that my memory is faulty, and getting worse daily. I'll have to try and track down the poster, who recommended this utility. IIRC (and obviously I do not), it did a lot of automatic repair to broken (really broken and not the Sherlock "false positives") CODEC's, plus also allowed one to set the priority of each. Some programs will alter this, and set "their" CODEC's instead of properly installed others, for certain file types. This utility seemed quite good at both tasks.

                                                                           

                                                                          It appears that you came to about the same conclusions that I did, regarding the OP's files.

                                                                           

                                                                          Hunt

                                                                          • 34. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                            These clips are not camera standard formats.  It's not surprising they don't work well.  Given their Windows Media nature, perhaps Windows Movie Maker is the better tool for editing such clips.

                                                                            • 35. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              OK, here is the LINK to that utility. I have not used it, but it might be worth a look. I do not personally recommend this, as I have not used it, and have only read recommendations for it. Others speak highly of it - still this is all second-hand.

                                                                               

                                                                              Good luck,

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                                dtoavs Level 1

                                                                                Thanks to all the various bits of information you guys provided, I went back to the clips that were sent to me, ran them through the Adobe Media Encoder and set the output to be in an AVI format.  Now when I drop them onto GSpot, the Audio > Status says "No Codec Required" and the Video > Status says "Codec(s) are installed."

                                                                                 

                                                                                Something about the analogy of putting on a French beret but still being English inside triggered this action.  We may be able to rename the wrapper of the clip and enable playback, but that doesn't necessarily set up the configurations within the clip to be usable for editing.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'll attack the project again later in the day with the new clips to see if the method (theory) works.  I'll keep you posted on the progress.

                                                                                 

                                                                                And many thanks for the valuable responses.

                                                                                • 37. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                  Great news. "No CODEC Required" is ALWAYS a good thing for G-Spot to say. In some cases, it still does not mean that an NLE can effectively edit that file, but it means that you do not need to go and get another CODEC. I'm with Harm, earlier in the thread, in that I only will install a CODEC that I need. Sometimes, I'll only install it on the laptop, and keep the workstation as clean as I can.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Let us know how it edits, and good luck,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                  • 38. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                                    dtoavs Level 1

                                                                                    OK!  I just had to test the concept.  So far, it is working.  Each of the clips plays as expected, the tracks take editing nicely, the playsback holds together without extra matching or rendering and replacing, and the Audio Gain indicators make sense again.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: CS4.0.1 Audio vanishes while on timeline
                                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                      Hope that the good fortune continues. Fingers are X'ed for you out here in the AZ desert.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      That Gain setting is still puzzling, but if you get the work done, we may never know what happened - just so long as it never happens again.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hunt

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