1 2 Previous Next 41 Replies Latest reply on Jun 29, 2012 4:15 PM by Jim_Simon

    HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...

    videostart Level 1

      Hi,

       

      My final output for my project is a DVD. I have HD footage from a HDR-SR11 Sony camera.  This is the workflow I am going to use and was wondering

      if this sounds right...

       

      Create a 720x480 project in premiere.

      Import the AVCHD footage and scale to 45%

      Edit footage in premiere and export to encore for DVD authoring.

       

      I just want to make sure I'm going to have the best quality output??

       

       

       

      Thanks for the help!

        • 1. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
          pebalsamo Level 2

          When I have had HD projects and wanting to export to SD I have edited them in the format that the video was shot (HDV in my case) and then when I output with Adobe Media Encoder I down convert to SD.  Then create my DVD's as normal with Encore.  This has worked for me with good success...

           

          Phil

          • 2. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
            videostart Level 1

            Do you think one process is better than the other?

            • 3. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
              pebalsamo Level 2

              That is the only process that I have used so I could not tell you if there is a better one.  I am sure that if there is we will see it in this thread.  I personally would not want to just scale down all my footage.  I am not sure if that would affect the final quality or not.

               

              Phil

              • 4. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                Here's the best HD --> SD workflow in Pr CS4.

                 

                1. Create a sequence to match your HD source footage.

                2. Edit until the show is complete.

                3. Nest the HD sequence in the SD sequence and scale (I use 46% for 1080 material).

                 

                Now the most important step:

                 

                4. Set both sequences (HD and SD) to Maximum Render Quality using Sequence>Sequence Settings.  This triggers high-quality scaling and if necessary, high-quality deinterlacing.

                 

                Continuing:

                 

                5. Export the SD sequence to MPEG2 DVD.  Verify that MRQ is set in the flyout menu of the AME - it should be set by default because of the sequence settings.

                 

                This workflow produces the best possible HD to SD results from CS4.  It also preserves the show at HD resolution should you need a hi-def version.  Be advised that the render times will be about 20x real-time with a single P4 CPU, and will reduce accordingly based on the number of CPUs that you have on your system.

                 

                If you search for "hd2sd" and "Dan Isaacs" on the forums, you'll find a free, third-party solution that produces even better results in less time than CS4.  However, it requires more technical computer skills than the Pr method.

                 

                -Jeff

                • 5. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                  pebalsamo Level 2

                  Thanks Jeff I will give that a try in a current project that I am working on...

                   

                  Phil

                  • 6. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                    videostart Level 1

                    When you click on the Sequence Settings, do you set that individually for each sequence?

                    What setting changes the sequence to Maximum Render Quality?  When I click on  the sequence in

                    the project settings, I can't change all the settings in the Sequence settings?

                     

                    I am going to use the Adobe Dynamic Link so I don't have to export from Premiere, but just go

                    straight to Encore.  Are there any settings there that I should aware of when I export to DVD?

                    • 7. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                      pebalsamo Level 2

                      OK Jeff, now I have a question.  In my HD sequence (4 seperate sequences) I have already set all my Encore Chapter Marks.  Is there anyway to bring all of these into the new SD Sequence?

                       

                      Thanks

                      Phil

                      • 8. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                        Select the sequence in the Project panel or in the Timeline panel and then use the Sequence menu item to get at the sequence settings.

                         

                        Any time I use an HD to SD workflow, I use the AME directly for encoding.  In the very few tests I've done using Dynamic Link to go from Pr to En, I am not confident in the results - which means I'm not sure that DL honors the MRQ setting from Pr.

                         

                        My recommendation to you is to create a very short (less than 5 minutes) SD sequence that contains a copy of your HD sequence (trimmed to fit, of course) and proceed to test DL to En for yourself.  Compare it to encoding via the AME directly.  Be sure to continue all the way through building a test RW disc and testing playback and quality on both software and hardware DVD players, and on interlaced CRT TVs and progressive HDTVs.  Use as many as you can get your hands on and make the quality judgment for yourself.  Only you can decide where the render time versus output quality break-even point is for you and your clients.

                         

                        -Jeff

                        • 9. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                          videostart Level 1

                          Great advice Jeff.  When you use the AME from Premiere, what settings are the best to export out the SD sequence for importing into

                          Encore?

                          • 10. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                            It varies, but I start with VBR 1-pass, target 8, min 3.5, max 9.  I use high-quality blank media (Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim) and slow burn speeds (one-half the rated speed of the media or the burner, whichever is lower).  Longer programs require a lower target bit rate.

                             

                            Audio is always PCM 48K 16-bit stereo, although with CS4, 2-channel .ac3 audio is a good option as well.  If I were to do a multichannel mix, it would be with the Surcode Dolby Digital plug-in.

                             

                            I never multiplex my exports, so I end up with an .m2v video file and a .wav audio file (.ac3 audio from the Surcode output).

                             

                            -Jeff

                            • 11. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                              Phil,

                               

                              The fastest way to update your En chapter markers is to add a new keyboard shortcut (see below) and then do this:

                               

                              1. Nest your HD sequence as I described earlier.
                              2. The En chapter markers will appear in the nested sequence as clip markers.
                              3. Target the track with the nested sequence and make sure the sequence is selected.
                              4. Use the existing kb shortcut Ctrl+Shift+Arrow to navigate instantly from one clip marker to the next.
                              5. At each clip marker, use the new kb shortcut (see below) to add an En chapter marker.

                               

                              New Keyboard Shortcut: For the Marker>Set Encore Chapter Marker menu item, create the new shortcut Ctrl+NumPadAsterisk (*).

                               

                              Things go pretty quickly if you use that method.

                               

                              -Jeff

                               

                              PS - Now go file a Feature Request to allow exporting chapter marker data from Pr and to allow importing that data into En.

                              • 12. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                pebalsamo Level 2

                                Thanks, I figured I would just do it that way...

                                 

                                I will file a feature request.  I have already done so on the Chapter Name part of it.  When you import the file into En as a timeline it does not bring the name.  Just something like "This is a chapter marker".  It did not do that with CS3...

                                 

                                Thanks again...

                                 

                                Phil

                                • 13. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                  It works the way you expect in CS4 except for the first chapter

                                  marker.  Into which field are you entering the chapter name in the

                                  marker dialog?  The one for En is now about half way down.

                                   

                                  -Jeff

                                  • 14. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                    videostart Level 1

                                    Hi Jeff,

                                     

                                    In CS4, I have the Sequence settings opened, but the only settings I see are Video, Audio, and Video Previews and there is nothing that I can change.

                                     

                                    At the bottom of the screen, there is  "Maximum Bit Depth" that I can check under Video Previews...is that what you are referring to under Sequence Settings?

                                     

                                    Thanks again!

                                    • 15. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                      What version of CS4 are you using?  If memory serves, the Max Render

                                      Quality option came with the 4.01 update.

                                       

                                      -Jeff

                                      • 16. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                        videostart Level 1

                                        Yes, I'm running a different version, 4.0.  Is this an upgrade or can you download for free?

                                         

                                        Thanks!

                                        • 17. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                          videostart Level 1

                                          Actually, I just found it online.  For those that are interested in the download:

                                          http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4088&fileID=3817

                                           

                                          Thanks Jeff

                                          • 19. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                            videostart Level 1

                                            Jeff,

                                             

                                            I'm looking in the export settings in Premiere...so far here is my process:

                                             

                                            1.  edited my HD footage in premiere

                                            2.  moved it into a SD sequence and scaled to 45%

                                            3.  exported

                                             

                                            In the export settings, for the format, should I use MPEG-2 or MPEG-2 DVD?

                                            Do you know what the difference is?

                                             

                                            Also, I tried to use the Adobe Dynamic Link from Encore, but it did not recognize all of my sequences,

                                            specifically, the ones that I scaled the video to 45%.  Any ideas on that one?

                                             

                                            Thanks again!

                                            • 20. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                              videostart wrote:

                                               

                                              In the export settings, for the format, should I use MPEG-2 or MPEG-2 DVD?

                                              Do you know what the difference is?

                                               

                                              Use MPEG-2 DVD.  It creates a DVD-legal video file that shouldn't have to be transcoded by Encore.  If you create an MPEG-2 file that's *not* DVD-legal, then Encore will re-transcode it and quality will take a huge hit.

                                               

                                              videostart wrote:

                                              Also, I tried to use the Adobe Dynamic Link from Encore, but it did not recognize all of my sequences,

                                              specifically, the ones that I scaled the video to 45%.  Any ideas on that one?


                                              I'll take a look here later on today.

                                               

                                              -Jeff

                                              • 21. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                videostart Level 1

                                                Thanks for the quick responses.

                                                 

                                                Once I get into Encore, I have my photoshop menu imported as a menu, and the video for one of the buttons is on a timeline.

                                                 

                                                When I try to "build" the DVD, it says "This file does not appear to be a Photoshop file" and it will not let me build the DVD?

                                                 

                                                I looked around in the forums but there does not appear to be a solution for this.....now I'm kinda stuck....

                                                 

                                                Any ideas?

                                                 

                                                Thanks!!!

                                                • 22. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                  videostart Level 1

                                                  Ignore my last post about the "File doesn't appear to be a Photoshop File".  I got frustrated and just started a new encore project.  When all else fails, start over!  But....maybe someone has a solution for that error to post for everyone else that may be having that problem still...

                                                   

                                                  Thanks!

                                                  • 23. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Was about to suggest that you post to the Encore forum, but just saw your article there. Take a look at my questions, and we'll see if we can get you the answer to your question over there.

                                                     

                                                    Glad that it's working,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 24. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                      videostart wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Also, I tried to use the Adobe Dynamic Link from Encore, but it did not recognize all of my sequences,

                                                      specifically, the ones that I scaled the video to 45%.  Any ideas on that one?


                                                      It works here, even with the scaled, nested sequences.  I save the Pr project, open En, go to File>Adobe Dynamic Link>Import Premiere Pro Sequence.  Then the Dynamic Link dialog appears and I select the Pr project on the left side, and the appropriate sequence on the right side.

                                                       

                                                      Were you doing anything different?

                                                       

                                                      -Jeff

                                                      • 25. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                        videostart Level 1

                                                        Now I'm going to sound crazy....it's working now.  I had to create a new encore project to get it to work.  I don't know if somehow it got corrupted?

                                                        But once I created the new Encore project, I didn't get the "this is not a photoshop file" error and all the sequences started showing up.

                                                         

                                                        I guess it's a when all else fails kind of solution...start over..?

                                                         

                                                        What settings do you use in Encore when you export to DVD?  I'm having some problems getting my photohop menu crisp, it looks kinda blurry?

                                                        • 26. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          I realy think you should give Dan Isaacs method a spin.

                                                          Premiere makes awfull (well i think so) dvd's from HD. Dan's method gives execellent results.

                                                          Its not that technical. If i can do it, you can do it also.

                                                          • 27. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                            pebalsamo Level 2

                                                            What is Dan Isaacs Method?

                                                            • 28. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                              videostart Level 1

                                                              Hey Jeff,

                                                               

                                                              I created my lower third in Photoshop and saved out a .PNG file to import into Premiere.

                                                              When I play the DVD, there seems to be some noise in the title.  Do you think that's because of how

                                                              I saved the video out or because I used a .PNG?

                                                               

                                                              The video export settings I used are as you suggested in Premiere: 

                                                              VBR 1-pass, target 8, min 3.5, max 9

                                                               

                                                              Am I missing any settings that I should change?  Should I change any settings when I export the DVD

                                                              from Encore?

                                                               

                                                              Thanks!!!

                                                              • 29. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                A couple of questions:

                                                                 

                                                                   1. Please define "noise", and on which display device you see it.

                                                                   2. What colors are used for the text/graphics in the lower third?

                                                                      Posting the RGB values would help.

                                                                   3. Where did you apply the lower third - in the HD sequence or the SD

                                                                      sequence?  Whichever it was, try disabling (not deleting) the

                                                                      lower third in the sequence you used, and then add the lower third

                                                                      to other sequence and try again.  Remember to use a short segment

                                                                      of the timeline and an RW disc to test.

                                                                 

                                                                -Jeff

                                                                • 30. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                  videostart Level 1

                                                                  1.  By noise, I mean tiny little white dots jumping around, it's subtle but I can tell it's there

                                                                  2. The colors are red white and blue.  There is a flag and the activity is mainly in the flag.

                                                                  3.  I applied the lower third in the SD sequence.

                                                                   

                                                                  Are you saying to use a RW-DVD to test just so I don't waste DVD's or is there another reason?

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks!

                                                                  • 31. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    pebalsamo wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    What is Dan Isaacs Method?

                                                                    Search the forums for "hd2sd".

                                                                     

                                                                    -Jeff

                                                                    • 32. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                      The DVD RW is just for testing on your computer and on your set-top player. It is not a viable delivery format in many cases. It saves creating a whole matched set of "coasters," unless you need the coasters. [Grin]

                                                                       

                                                                      Good luck,

                                                                       

                                                                      Hunt

                                                                      • 33. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                        videostart Level 1

                                                                        Because I'm getting some "white noise" in my video and lower third, do you think if I up the bitrate settings, it will change that to a higher quality so there won't be any white dots moving around?

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks!

                                                                        • 34. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                          If you are unsure about encoding settings, and finding the optimal settings for your timeline, use

                                                                           

                                                                          http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php?PHPSESSID=6501b6b2b31f4c4a295bc8c2ba1e6f57

                                                                          • 35. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                            ZinchukStudios

                                                                            Hi Jeff,

                                                                             

                                                                            Dan Issacs's method no longer supports CS4. . .do you know of any other speedy options for creating a DVD from HD footage?

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks in advance,

                                                                            Jennifer Zinchuk

                                                                            • 36. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                                              ZinchukStudios wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              Hi Jeff,

                                                                               

                                                                              Dan Issacs's method no longer supports CS4. . .do you know of any other speedy options for creating a DVD from HD footage?

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks in advance,

                                                                              Jennifer Zinchuk

                                                                              The only part of his method that doesn't work any more is the use of the DebugMode Frameserver.  Are you referring to that?   I use hd2sd a lot with CS4.

                                                                               

                                                                              -Jeff

                                                                              • 38. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                                Dragonspear Level 1

                                                                                Lots of good advice in here.

                                                                                I thought I would add an update to this thread. Dan's Isaac's method (referred to above by Ann Bens) has been held as one of the best (if not the best) means to do software based HD to SD conversions.  The results are great.  If you don't want to go through Isaac's method, you can try the steps below.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Currently, all our HD footage gets smashed down to SD for broadcast on our station. In CS5.5 and earlier, I had problems when I edited in HD and exported in SD.  The main problem was noticable aliasing with onscreen graphics.  Yes, even when using the Maximum Render Quality.

                                                                                 

                                                                                My solution and workflow at the time was to do the following: (and this may apply to you if you're in CS5.5 or earlier...read the next session if you have CS6)

                                                                                1. Edit footage in native HD
                                                                                2. Copy and paste the HD footage onto an SD timeline. (optionally you can just drag the HD sequence into the timeline to make one big clip. ...but if you have to edit something, you'll have to go back to your HD timeline to do it)
                                                                                3. Risize all footage to 46%. Do not choose "fit to frame". NOTE: I've noticed that if you right-click and choose "fit to frame" it still misses it by about a %. ...You won't notice until you start doing titles and motionbackgrounds on top of the footage.  The boarders won't quite line up at transitions until you bump up your footage 1% from the default "fit to frame" size. ...though this may not be a problem for broadcast, it will show up if you export for web.  Either way...just save yourself the trouble and resize to 46% ^___^
                                                                                4. Add titles and gfx to your SD timeline. NOTE: these titles should be CREATED in the SD timeline.  Everytime I've used HD titles and scaled them, I've gotten aliasing upon export. every. time.
                                                                                5. Now export your whole SD sequence as you normally would.  Because the gfx were created in SD, and are being exported on top of the video in their native resolution, their will be no gfx aliasing upon export. YAY!

                                                                                 

                                                                                BUT WAIT!  THERE'S MORE! ^_^

                                                                                CS6

                                                                                I would add, however, that now in CS6 things have greatly improved.

                                                                                My new workflow couldn't be simpler.  I tested out a couple of my old methods in CS6 to see if things had changed. I have yet to compare the results to Mr. Isaac's methods, but have so far had fantastic results when exporting HD to SD in CS6.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I tried two different approaches.

                                                                                1. Edit video, graphics, etc. ALL in HD and simply use the export function to export directly to an SD .mp2 file.
                                                                                2. Edit video in HD. Move video to SD timeline. Resize. Add native SD graphics. Export SD .mp2 file. (same 5-step process as the one I listed above for CS5.5 and earlier)

                                                                                 

                                                                                The funny thing is...

                                                                                In CS6 when I exported a fully scaled HD timeline with HD video and HD graphics, it looked better, sharper, and clearer than if I had created it all from SD.  What really shocked me about this is that when I took an SD timeline. Created SD graphics. and exported to SD. ...even though there is NO scaling, the HD to SD scaled video and graphics had more clarity.

                                                                                Native SD graphics appeared more out of focus than their HD scaled down alternatives. ?!?!?!

                                                                                 

                                                                                When I've compared the new CS6 export results to Mr. Isaac's methods, I'll let you know the results.  ...For now, I'm impressed with CS6's scaling quality. (NOTE: for my tests I used 29.97 1080p footage.)

                                                                                • 39. Re: HD to SD in Premiere project workflow...
                                                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                                  Everytime I've used HD titles and scaled them, I've gotten aliasing upon export. every. time.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I haven't had that issue myself.  HD titles from an HD sequence came out just fine in an SD export.

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                  now in CS6 things have greatly improved.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  To the best of my knowledge, there's been no change to the scaling algorithms used in CS6.  They're the same as they were from CS5 on when hardware acceleration was introduced.

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