19 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2009 2:36 PM by Pål Gustav Widerberg

    Sanyo hd2000 editing woes

    Pål Gustav Widerberg

      I've started using my eagerly awaited Sanyo Xacti hd2000, only to find that the 1920X1080p 59,94fps AVC/h.264 .mp4 files that it produces is less than editable in Premiere Pro CS4.

       

      Importing is no problem, and also playback in realtime is no problem. Until I've been working for a bit, this can be anything from previewing a few clips to editing on the timeline for half an hour, when suddenly the thumbnails on the timeline or the monitor windows itself goes green. The audio playback will go on until stopped, upon which Premiere will crash miserably. I'm using the AVCHD preset.

       

      Has anyone else had any luck with editing the native files?

      Is there a codec to which I could transcode, keep the quality and still edit realtime? I've tried Lagarith and DNxHD, none of which is realtime on the timeline.

      Is there an alternative to Premiere Pro when it comes to editing HD2000 files?

       

      The specs are as follows; Vista 64bit, Premiere Pro Cs4, Quicktime Pro, 4GB RAM, Intel Quad @ 2.4GHz, Nvidia Geforce 7950. Service packs and drivers all up to date.

       

      Paul, Norway.

        • 1. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          While editing, there are index files, conformed audio files, rendered preview files etc. created. The longer you work, the more files are created and they all need to be accessed at a certain time. My initial suspicion is that your disk(s) are having trouble keeping up, possibly aggravated by other processes running in the background.

           

          How is your disk setup, and specially where are the various scratch disks located, where are the media located, in short all your preferences relating to the location of the files. Can you also show a screenshot from Process Explorer. In the second part of this link you will find some tips on what you can do to figure this out.

           

          If you need help quickly...Guideline for posting an effective question

          • 2. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
            Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

            Thank you for your response. I do think it is too general though, and that the trouble lies with Premiere CS4's ability to handle the format rather than my PC's configuration. I've been editing DV and HD mxf's for years with no problems similar to this.

             

            I'll post some screens anyhow.

             

             

            1. Premiere - just crashed

            prem.jpg

             

            Scratchdisks

             

            scrathchdisk.JPG

             

            Processes

            Processess.JPG

            RAID configuration

            raid_config.JPG

            • 3. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Thanks for posting these screenshots. That is very informative.

               

              Why do you have the project and scratch disks all on your C: drive, when you have two raid0 arrays available? A more normal approach would be to have all media on one array and the project and scratch disks on the other array.

               

              You have a whole bundle of unnecessary processes running, that all slow down your system. AVCHD editing requires all the muscle you can get and you have processes running that (seriously) hamper performance, like:

               

              Searchindexer

              Mediacenter

              mTorrent

              Bluetooth

              MacDrive

              Sidebar

              Cyberlink

               

              to name just a few. You should easily be able to reduce those processes to 50-60 maximum. Those steps will significantly reduce the drain on your system, increase stability and performance and improve your editing experience. Absolutely turn of the Sidebar and Searchindexer. What is MacDrive doing on your system? Do you use the tablet while editing? If not, turn it off as well.

              • 4. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                PrCS4 allows native AVCHD editing.  Your Sanyo doesn't produce that - it uses the older MPEG4 format.

                 

                Also, if you'll check the AVCHD presets, 1080p60 isn't supported.  You need custom settings.  Did you set up your sequence correctly?

                 

                Regardless, you should wait for the 4.1 update that's due out at the end of this month.  It's rumored that improved AVCHD performance can be expected.  If that improvement turns out to be factual and not just a rumor, then perhaps you'll have a better editing experience with your .mp4 files.

                 

                Until then, both Lagarith and DNxHD are probably better solutions, provided you modify your disk settings like Harm suggested.

                 

                -Jeff

                • 5. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  In your screen shots down the thread, the first thing that jumps out at me is that you seem to have all Scratch Disks on your C:\.

                   

                  Per Harm's earlier question: how is your I/O sub-system set up? Number, size, speed of discs, controller type and how they are used, would be great info.

                   

                  [Edit] Sorry, now I see the Matrix Storage Console screen shot. Still, am I correct that the OS, the program and the Scratch Disks are all on C:\?

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Bill,

                     

                    If you look at the other screenshots, that has been answered IMO. His setup is far from optimal, as is shown also in the list of processes running. Add to that the remark Jeff made about his video format (MP4, not real AVCHD) and the cumulation can well cause the problems Paul has.

                    • 7. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Yes, when I first read down, your post, and his were heavily overlapped. It was not until I had posted, that I was able to see the screen caps. I could also only see the first line of your post, after the images. However, when I went to edit that too (regarding everything on C:\) your full post appeared. At that point, though still logged-in, I couldn't edit again, and got booted off the forum. Came back, still logged-in, and can post. I need to be more patient with the forum, and let images and other posts propogate properly.

                       

                      You are way ahead of me on this one.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        This forum has many other idiosyncrasies since updating.

                        Am I the only one experiencing  the "Go to original post" link to be buried somewhere on the screen (various locations) instead of at the bottom?

                        I also experience that with the "Reply" link, although it usually is not off by more than three lines. "Reply to original post" can be located on your screen as well in random locations, although not as often as the "Go..." link.

                        • 9. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                          Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

                          As you can see from the raid-screen shot, I got two raids, one labeled Vista, one labeled Video. That's the duties they perform, except from when I tried moving my mp4-files over to my OS-raid to see if that would make any difference. That's when the scratch-disk-setup-snap was taken. I should not have posted it, it does not represent the way my system is set up or the way I usually work. The usual setup is OS and programs on C:Vista -RAID, scratch disk and video source files on D:Video-RAID.

                           

                          I've cleaned out some of the applications running in the background, but except from Cyberlink, I've got big doubts about any of them affecting Premiere's performance. Check the mem and cpu use, it's close to nothing. I do use the tablet, and Macdrive is in use every now and then. I use this system for 3ds Max, After Effects, DV and P2-editing with Premiere Pro, Illustrator and Photoshop and it is very stable and problem free except for when editing mp4 from my Sanyo.

                           

                          There is no 60fps HD preset, that is correct, but the files play back correctly in a 30fps sequence, until everything goes green at least. I haven't had problems with mixing frame rates in a sequence before, so i doubt thats the problem.

                           

                          To me, it looks more like Premiere isn't happy with the source video, rather than my system setup hampering performance. I'm encountering complete lock-ups, not sluggish behaviour as would be more likely caused by non-optimal setups.

                           

                          But if someone are editing the same kind of source material successfully, I'd like to hear from them, because then my computer will need another inspection. I will test my computer at work to see if I can recreate the crash there and update you guys tomorrow.

                          • 10. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            I have never used your camera, but Jeff is very knowledgeable and if he says that the recording format is not strictly AVCHD, I believe him. That could be the cause of your problems. I went on the assumption that the camera was fully AVCHD compliant and looked at other issues. Sorry I could not be of more help.

                            • 11. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                              Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

                              I've just finished 30 mins of testing at work, and what do you know; it seems to be working flawlessly. It doesn't crash at the specific points in the video material as my home computer did so this seems to be spec related after all, my bad.

                               

                              My work machine is somewhat more robust though: 2X Xeon Quad @ 3GHz, 16GB ram, 2X SAS HDs - one for OS and one for video.

                               

                              Thanks for all the input!

                              • 12. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

                                Just wanted to update this thread, as I've been editing some more HD2000 files both at home and at work (on diffently spec'ed computers). It turns out that my computer at work isn't much more stable than my home computer, contrary to my previous, somewhat ecstatic post. The video will go green after a while and Premiere eventually crash. A complete reboot is needed to be able to continue.

                                 

                                I have been able to improve exporting (which would also go green from time to time) by avoiding nested timelines, and also exporting using DNxHD and then compressing the DNxHD-file to other formats. Time-remapping clips seem also to bring Media Encoder to it's knees.

                                 

                                However, after installing Mainconcepts H.264/AVC & MPEG Plug-in for Adobe® Premiere® Pro v4.0.1, it seems most of the previous problems are gone. No more green screens, I've been able to edit for as long as I've wanted, also exporting to compressed formats straight from the timeline has been successful at every attempt. Performance is perhaps slighlty more sluggish, but not problematic.

                                 

                                I won't rave to much just yet, since I've not tested it extensively, but I surely suggest you try the demo if you've been having similar problems to mine.

                                 

                                Paul.

                                • 13. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Paul,

                                   

                                  Thank you for posting, and I hope that the success continues.

                                   

                                  I understand about getting too ecstatic too soon. Everytime I do, I almost always regret it. Still, it looks like things are look up.

                                   

                                  Your reports will likely help someone in the future. At least we all have this thread to link them to, should they have the same camera and the same issues.

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                   

                                  [Edit] PS going back up thread to your Processes, I see MacDrive. Harm commented on it. It's a program that I use from time to time. However, if it's in the Startup folder, it can really mess up some dual-platform CD/DVD reads, as it jumps in and makes the assumption that because there is Mac material on the disc, that is what you want and it will "handle it." What this can mean is that it will effectively hide the PC content from you, and that is usually not what you want. This is not meant to bash MacDrive, but to point out one potential problem if it loads at Startup. I still use mine, but do not let it load at boot. There, it can render all PC content totally invisible to the computer, though it's right there on the DVD.

                                  • 14. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                    danimations80

                                    Hi Paul- thanks for the update on your progress.

                                     

                                    I have just run into the same problems... green screens and system lock-ups while editing quite modest numbers of files. The troublemakers are all 1080p 60fps... but damn it, I want to get that slow-motion singin'!

                                     

                                    I tried using alternative sequences... HDV turned out to be more stable, and allowed my partner to progress further, with less hang-ups than AVCHD. Ultimately our projects reached a point where PPRO simply wouldn't open the the project files at all... the loading status bar would freeze around 80-90% done, and I'd have to force the app to quit.

                                     

                                    I will install the plugin you recommend above, and report back with my results.. sounds promising!

                                     

                                    Incidentally, I'm running an intel i7 920 cpu, 12 Gb ram, Windows Vista 64-bit, several 1tb HDD's... and my beloved Sanyo Exacti HD2000 among my fleet of cameras.

                                    • 15. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                      danimations80 Level 1

                                      Hi Pal,

                                       

                                      I just took your advice and installed the trial version of MainConcept's MPEG Pro HD package. The version I'm running is 4.0.2.

                                       

                                      I saw an immediate improvement, green flashes are gone, and image playback etc is great.

                                       

                                      Unfortunately, I'm still hitting a wall with this project. As more clips are loaded into the sequence (and I've tried a range of alternative types of sequences, including special MainConcept ones like BluRay) the program crashes.

                                       

                                      The error message is this: 'ImporterProcessServer.exe has stopped working'.

                                       

                                      As I said above, I'm running Vista 64-bit, on an i7 920 with 12 Gb RAM.

                                       

                                      I suspect the problem still revolves around Premiere's inability to happily handle these files... as I'm currently working on a much larger AVCHD project with very pleasing results... but with footage from a Panasonic DMC-FT1 exclusively.

                                       

                                      My next step is to try loading the clips into a standard def. project and see if I can get further in that... the trouble kicks in as the project gets larger (>5mins of content on the timeline).

                                       

                                      Are there any other options for ingesting this footage, other than transcoding the footage to another format? If transcoding is the only obvious option, is there a format I can transcode to which retains the resolution (1920 x 1080), aspect ratio (1.0) and frame rate (60 fps)?

                                       

                                      Anyone..?

                                      • 16. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                        Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

                                        Same here, I've also started to look for ways to convert the video to another, editable format. I tryed Huffyuv last night, but even if it will let me encode to 1920X1080p 60fps, the file won't play back. Although editing is possible with some patience and a itchy ctrl+s finger, exporting is a nightmare.

                                         

                                        On another note, FCP won't touch the mp4's either, and although I was able to edit a short with imovie, the export was a mess with flickering/skipping/the lots.

                                         

                                        There are a couple of other HD codecs out there, like Avid DNxHD and Lagarith, but as of now I don't now how to batch encode to any of these. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

                                         

                                        At the same time I'm wondering how all the other HD2000 owners are editing their footage, I was waiting for weeks to get mine, sanyo must have moved thousands of these.

                                        • 17. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          I would guess that the vast majority of people using that camera aren't editing the videos.  It's made for the non-professional shoot and watch crowd.

                                          • 18. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                            danimations80 Level 1

                                            My partner and I have skated around this issue by transcoding/downconverting the footage to 720p res.

                                             

                                            Since running into this problem, we now only shoot 1080p @ 60 fps when we know we are going to need the slow motion effect.

                                             

                                            The 720p res footage is fine for finishing to BluRay or online HD video portals.... I'm sure the next patch/premiere version will handle this format better. Looks like 60fps is the future...!

                                            • 19. Re: Sanyo hd2000 editing woes
                                              Pål Gustav Widerberg Level 1

                                              danimations80: what do you use for transcoding?

                                               

                                              I've been testing Cineform Neo HD the last few days, and successfully replaced an entire mp4-timeline AND the exported the nested sequence with great results. I'm really bummed out about having to transcode stuff, but I can get 1080p 60fps working now (the timeline is 29.97, but 60fps is for slowmotion as danimations80 was saying), so i guess I'll just have to suck it up.

                                               

                                              The cineform avi's play back fairly well in an standard 1080p 29,97 sequence, slightly distorted in media player classic and just perfect in WMP.