19 Replies Latest reply on May 13, 2009 4:57 PM by Jim_Simon Branched to a new discussion.

    Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source

    karlakraus@yahoo.com

      I am on a pc, use Windows XP Pro SP 3, and  have a 150 gig hard drive with 3.25 gigs ram.  I am just getting started in Premiere Pro and decided to create a test file and try out various things.

       

      I shot about a dozen avi files with a Nikon D-90 and tried previewing and adding a number of them; all are in the same folder.  One was previewed in Premiere Pro and played just fine, and and then was dragged in and played just fine, but only the audio of the others in the folder played both in preview and when dragged in.

       

      What can possibly be the problem?

       

      I looked at the various specs, and I don't see any difference.

       

      Best & thanks,

      Karla

        • 1. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Karla,

           

          Your camera produces MJPEG AV files. Normally, all one has to do to get these to function adequately in PrPro is install the Morgan, or MainConcept MJPEG CODEC. They are not the ideal format, but usually work with one of those CODEC's. Now, because one of these Imports and plays fine in PrPro, *seems* to indicate that you have an MJPEG CODEC. That the others do not, is curious.

           

          First, download and install G-Spot. When you start it, it'll survey your system for properly installed CODEC's. Then, drag the file, that does Import and play properly into G-Spot. Look at the info, that the program will generate. Make notes, or better yet, a screen-cap of this files info. Next, try one of the ones, that does not work in PrPro. Do another screen-cap, or take notes. Is there a difference, other than the Duration of these two files? If you made notes, post those. If you made screen-caps, post those. Please indicate which file is the one that played, and which one is the one that did not.

           

          Since one worked, G-Spot *should* indicate that you have the proper CODEC installed. If so, then we need to find out why PrPro is not using it with the other files. If not, and this would be curious, because one file Imported, etc. fine, you might need to get an MJPEG CODEC and install it.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
            karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

            Many thanks. This is all new to me, and I'll have to take time to look into it. Meanwhile I was able to load various videos in the same lot into Proshow Producer without any problem.

             

            Best,

            Karla

            • 3. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Karla,

               

              I know OF ProShow Producer, but I do not know the program. Do you happen to know what file type you Exported from, and also what file format these are. For instance, a file might be named .AVI, but that just tells us a very little about what is "inside" that .AVI file. It could be one of many file formats. That is where programs like G-Spot come it. They "peek" inside the "wrapper," that .AVI represents. Can be the same for files that have .MOV, .WMV and .MPG/MPEG extensions. Lot's of different things lurk inside. I believe that your MJPEG files are in a .AVI wrapper, though they are "Motion JPEG" files.

               

              That you have gotten some files into PrPro is a good thing. It works best with files that are pretty specific, DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit WAV Audio. While it handles many more, the degree to which it will work with those varies by the file format, and the CODEC's on your system.

               

              Back to your Nikon's files, you might want to read a few articles in the Premiere fora:

              HERE, HERE and HERE.

               

              Right now, full support for this format, and also the .MOV files from the Canon 5D MKII, is not up to speed with PrPro. Do not know if the upcoming update will address these formats. Considering the popularity and the results from these two cameras, I'd guess that more support will appear in CS5. In the meantime, there are things that can be done.

               

              I'm looking forward to seeing what is different about the Nikon file that would Import and edit, and one of those that would not.

               

              Good luck, and good reading,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                Eddie Lotter Level 4

                You will also find links to many free tutorials in the PremiereProPedia that will quickly show you how things are done in Premiere Pro.

                Cheers
                Eddie

                • 5. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                  karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

                  Many thanks to both of you.  I downloaded the G-spot feature, but what one does with it, I have no idea.  I am very disappointed in Premiere. Problems like mine should be ironed out by the program, not by me wasting valuable time downloading something that requires me to do something else that I have no idea about--in short, it's all tres Kafka-esque.

                   

                  Proshow Producer is by contrast a wonderful program that allows for the utmost in creativity without a lot of technical fumfing around. All of my avi files from the Nikon D-90 open in it--end of story. If you have a pc, try a trial and you'll see what I mean. Once one creates a show and saves it in their native format (a psh file), one can export it to a multitude of other formats including the MPs and even Flash.

                   

                  Sorry,

                  Karla

                   

                  • 6. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                    One has to work with the right tools for them.  For you, ProShow Producer is the right tool.  You should try to get your money back from Adobe for Premiere Pro.

                     

                    -Jeff

                    • 7. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                      karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

                      Jeff,

                       

                      Get my money back? I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. I've been a PS user since v 2.5; I even have the original 3.5  disks and manual.  I'm also an ID user and recently won a fair number of design awards for Be a Poet!  Also have been corresponding with David Bergsland, who wrote the best book on the original ID; now as a result of my suggestions, he's rethinking his latest version.

                       

                      I don't know what it is with Premiere. It just seems to me that at the very outset I shouldn't have to download and deal with anything alien like the G-spot (which I think used to have something to do with sex, no?).

                       

                      Best,

                      Karla

                      • 8. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                        Ahhh.  So you have the Collection?

                         

                        You're right.  In theory, you should just be able to drop a video file into Premiere and off you go.  Unfortunately, with many codecs, and with the files that contain them, that is not the case.  Camera manufacturers (both video and still image) are producing file and codec variants faster than most people can read about them and figure out what they are.  Software engineers have absolutely no chance to patch their code in a timely manner.

                         

                        If a company takes the Apple/FCP route and converts all incoming video to a single intermediate codec, then they can respond faster to the new formats.  However, even with older, standard formats, the editor must endure the time it takes to convert each and every frame of video to the intermediate codec.

                         

                        If a company takes the Adobe/Pr way and chooses to allow native editing of the video, then responses to new formats takes longer.  Meanwhile, however, the older, supported formats ingest quickly, with no conversion required.  Neither will the editor suffer the attendant loss of time or quality that results from the conversion.

                         

                        There is no free lunch.

                         

                        -Jeff

                        • 9. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                          karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

                          So who wants a free lunch?  All I want is what I get from the other Adobe products, like Illustrator for instance, which I use maybe once a year.  The other day I clicked on the icon and tried to open an old Coreldraw file in it. Presto, it was done--with all of the formatting intact!

                           

                          FYI, I have the latest Master Collection.  I got it because I wanted to have a copy of Premiere among other things. I recently bought a copy of Premiere for the Mac for a young audio-techie whom I'm planning to start a small business with, and I wanted to familiarize myself with Premiere so I could anticipate any problems he might have. 

                           

                          So my copy of Premiere shouldn't stand idle, I decided to see if I could edit an avi file in it that I wanted to use as part of a Proshow show--since one cannot edit avi files in Proshow.

                           

                          Ironically the only one of my avi files that will open in my Premiere is the test I did in the plane on the way to the "shoot."  And the test consists of part of the wing, some floating grey mist, and a darkish landscape below.

                           

                          Now you really know the whole story. 

                           

                          Should I tell my young man about the G-spot? His father will laugh or blush.

                           

                          Best,

                          Karla

                          • 10. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                            Phil Griffith Level 2

                            How old is corel draw? and how old is the the D90 camera and it's codec? You're comparing apples and oranges. Jeff is dead on about how all the camera companies in the world come out with new formats and premiere is supposed to know all of them? coral draw has been around a hundred years so I would think that Illustrator would know it by now. see the difference?

                            • 11. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                              karlakraus@yahoo.com wrote:

                               

                              Should I tell my young man about the G-spot? His father will laugh or blush.


                               

                              • 12. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                The mention of CorelDraw files and Illustrator brought back memories. I had both, back when each was new. Neither did even a "fair" job with working with each others' files. Almost totally incompatible. Decades have now passed, and the file type interchange has gotten SO much better - yet, there was a time... Way back when, I had to convert CDR files three times to get them into Illustrator. Heck, there was still another conversion to get those into Photoshop! And please, do not get me started on WordPerfect's DrawPerfect graphics files. Because of time, most of these can flow from program to program, but it took years, and many versions in between.

                                 

                                As Jeff so eloquently points out, with Video CODEC's, things change in a heartbeat. Camera mfgr's grasp for the very best that their design teams can produce. Sometimes these "New & Improved" formats work with existing software, but often the software has to "catch up." This can take quite a bit of time, as they often have to reverse-engineer the CODEC, since much of the development is not available outside of their R & D offices. Many camera mfgr's never even bother to consider the editability of most of their coding work. The vast majority are designed to only disply the footage, and not to edit it. It's not until you get into the pro-sumer cameras, that much consideration on editing is taken into account. Even here, new developments might take time to implement into NLE's that were written for the specs. of yesterday.

                                 

                                With the exception of Sony sharing their camera format specs directly with their own Vegas development team, and apparently Red working closely with most NLE development teams, it's usually just a bunch of cowboys, out designing the best they can, with little or no consideration for what will happen when their footage is ingested into the current NLE's.

                                 

                                As for the "tools," I have a large Snap-On rollaway tool cabinet. It contains some adjustable spanners (Crescent® Wrenches to most). These work well for a lot of things, but usually fall short quickly. I have hundreds of specialized tools for just the right job - drawers full of them. I have one drawer with just leftover SST's (Special Service Tools) from my Jaguar XKE. I have some that were only used once, but did the exact job that they were required for.

                                 

                                G-Spot (let's just ignore the name - that was not MY idea), MediaInfo, DigitalMedia Converter, all of 'em, are just tools. When you need a double-offset socket with "wobble," you just go to the rollaway and grab it. I even use other NLE programs as tools for specific files and formats, though I edit in PrPro. One just has to understand that no program can do everything (just like those adjustable spanners). This is driven home more soundly with emerging file formats. As the professional and pro-sumer camera mfgr's move away from a tape-based capture system, we'll need more "tools" to get us by, until the NLE's catch up.

                                 

                                Maybe it's just a "guy thing," but the thought of haivng all of the proper and necessary tools actually is a positive thing. For my birthday, get me some more "tools," and do not bother with a collection of Transitions! [grin]

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Karla,

                                   

                                  After installation, I launch G-Spot, and drag the file from Windows Explorer to it*. Upon launch, the first thing that it does is to survey your system for properly installed CODEC's. When you Open a file in it (what I do by dragging), it then surveys the file, yielding all sorts of useful data. It then matches up the requirements of that file, with what it found on your system. It will tell you if you have the proper CODEC's (both Audio & Video), what there names are, and then will use those to process that file, if you wish. This is what the little numbered matrix is to the lower left - one column for Video and one for Audio. Once you do the step-by-step processing, you'll get a #3. If you hit it, a small viewer will pop up and the file will be played.

                                   

                                  If you feed it a file, for which you do not have the proper CODEC, it will still give you that CODEC's name. Then, it's time to Google for that one, buy/download it, and install it. When done, if you drag that same file to G-Spot, the message (upper right) will be different, and you'll get "CODEC Installed." Then you can go to the numbered matrix and process the file, then preview it.

                                   

                                  Since there is a lot of data shown in the G-Spot screen, I find it easier for someone to do a screen-cap of the GUI and post that. Saves a lot of transcription of data, some of it pretty arcane. Then, others more familiar with the data and the data types, can "read" it for you. Initially, you'll only need about four of the windows in G-Spot, but the others will come in hand, as you progress with video editing.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                   

                                  * you can probably drag the file to the G-Spot icon on your Desktop. That *should* work just as well, but I always launch it, let it do the system survey, and then drag the file to it.

                                  • 14. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                    karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

                                    Thanks but no thanks--or maybe later. I'm so busy right now, I can't deal with it, and I know by instinct (smell) that it's not going to be as simple-simon as you make it out to be. No sirreebob.

                                     

                                    Besides, as a matter of principle, I should not have to do what you say. Adobe should, or at least the Premiere wizards should.

                                     

                                    Best,

                                    Karla

                                    • 15. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Karla,

                                       

                                      I'm with Jeff on using the right "tool." If what you are producing can be done in ProShow, I'd stick with it. Keep PrPro for the jobs, that ProShow cannot do, though you still might use it for the preliminary part of the Project, and then Export a file (DV-AVI Type II, if at all possible) to Import into PrPro for the heavy editing.

                                       

                                      As an example, I do a fair amount of work in 3D. I create my wireframes in one progarm. Then, I take these into another to apply the "skin," possibly the lighting, etc. Last, I take the results from that/those program(s) into Photoshop for final assembly. There may be an intermediate 3D paint program along the way too. I also will take my PS files into Corel Painter for specialized work, then often back to PS for final tweaking. Then, if going to print, the whole thing goes to InD for layout and Export to PDF for the printer. That's a bunch of "tools" involved, but each does a specific job.

                                       

                                      Earlier in this thread, Eddie Lotter furnished a link to the Premiere-wiki, IIRC. That link will get you to lot of tutorials and articles on using PrP. I highly recommend spending some time there, when you have a moment. There is a wealth of info, and some fun Projects to experiment with in the tutorials. It is a wonderful learning resource.

                                       

                                      Now, back to your particular problem. Using the steps I outlined in another reply, I would be most interested in seeing a screen-cap from two of your .AVI files - one that Imports and edits in PrP and one that does not. There has GOT to be some difference there. If necessary, you can post an example of each (please specifically note which is which) to a site like You-Send-It, and I'll take a look at them. Unfortunately, I do not have CS4, so that is why I want you to be my "eyes," in this matter. I could well have problems, just because of the version of my PrPro, that you would not have with CS4.

                                       

                                      Because of the popularity of the new Nikon (and the Canon 5D MKII), what you do now, in the way of testing, WILL help others in the near future. We'll be able to link to your thread and likely furnish them with ideas, or maybe even a "fix." At least, a workaround should come from your work.

                                       

                                      Thanks,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                        If you will stop complaining for a moment and try PR with VIDEO from a VIDEO camera, instead of from a STILL camera., you may be surprised that everything works. Where you are wrong is that you are complaining that footage from a STILL camera, that also happens to shoot consumer video, should be handled by Premiere PRO. Either use consumer software like WMM or Magix to handle that consumer type video or convert it to something that can be handled by PR. It is your choice. Either go left, or right, but whichever way you turn, stop complaining. You caused this yourself.

                                        • 17. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                          karlakraus@yahoo.com Level 1

                                          Lookee here, HM, I was only experimenting with all of this. I'm not really complaining. If my problem stems from using a dinky still camera like the Nikon D-90, then that's that, I guess.  If yawl had told me this to begin with, it would have saved a lot of time and trouble all around. Even so, I do believe that I'll call Adobe Tech Support and run this by them, as I still fail to understand why one avi file from the stupid Nikon comes in fine and the rest do not.

                                           

                                          BTW, I've seen and done some of the tutorials and will do some more in due time.

                                           

                                          Best and thanks to one and all,

                                          Karla

                                          • 18. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Karla,

                                             

                                            If you are not interested in running a freeware program to find the answer to your question, then I cannot help you - sorry.

                                             

                                            I even offered to do the "heavy-lifting" of sorting through the differences in the files. The answer might be just around the corner, but it appears that we'll never know.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Mystified: Problem previewing and adding some avi files from same source
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8
                                              If my problem stems from using a dinky still camera like the Nikon D-90, then that's that, I guess.  If yawl had told me this to begin with, it would have saved a lot of time and trouble all around.

                                               

                                              Figures.  The one time I stayed out of it.