14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 27, 2012 8:52 AM by Pierre Devereux

    Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?

    dansch37 Level 2

      I have been asking alot of questions regarding HD - see my other posts:

      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/428077?tstart=0

      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/428858?tstart=0

      ..and I did read this:

      http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS8FEBCF80-821A-43ad-BA00-05D522F59750.

       

      Now what I want to know is how to render an AE project to an HD format. What are the real life pros and cons of the HD formats available for export in AE and how can I avoid the most common headaches/best practices associated with them.

       

      For now there is no video, just shapes and graphics created from scratch in AE. example issues: Do I need a special video card? Do I need to put it on a "bluray" disk or can we go off my hard drive? It will be tested on a HD television that is hooked up to a network.I have cs4 and osx10.5 but only 2gigs of memory. I only want to render a 5 second video (this is ALL for testing - and when I "get it" I will create full videos etc) so memory shouldnt be an issue?

      This is just proactive information gathering about HD in AE as it pertains to the render queue.

        • 1. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
          yenaphe Level 4

          To render your movie, if your composition is already in HD (I guess so ), you just have to add it to the render queue using cmd-m or Composition>add to render queue.

           

          There in the output module, select you codec option (i recommend Quicktime or h264), adjust the quality in the "format option" as needed, and hit render.

           

          A few minutes later you'll have a beautiful hd movie

          • 2. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
            Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

            What are the real life pros and cons of the HD formats available for export in AE and how can I avoid the most common headaches/best practices associated with them.

             

             

            There are no defintive pros and cons.

            The real important question is what's your target delivery medium. The best options will be the ones that get along better with that delivery medium.

             

            For broadcast HD TV, you want an uncompressed, lossless or very slightly compressed Quicktime or AVI file. Quality is defined by the specific codec you use.

             

            If you don't have an immediate delivery target, but just want to put your work in a "digital fridge" to keep your options open in the future .- make sure you use an uncompressed or lossless AVI or Quicktime codec as well.

            If you're going to Blu-Ray disc, technically it's going to be H264 video. You have H264 for Blu-Ray export presets in AE, but you can also send the Comp to Encore and let it take care of this.

            If you're going to the web, you will want a FLV (Flash video) file or H264 (but at a fraction of the data rate used for Blu-Ray).

             

            If you just want to play it from a hard drive to your HDTV, you can use the same preset for Blu-Ray (H264 at 15-30 Mbps) and it will look very well.

             

             

             

            Do I need a special video card?

             

            Nope. A good graphics card can help with interactions (ie, when adjusting parameters) but doesn't help much or at all with the actual rendering. Stick with the Adobe tested models and drivers, would be the best recomendation.

             

            I am wondering if you mean to connect it to an HDTV?

            In that case (and it's not directly related to AE), most HDTVs have a DVI and or VGA port. The HDTV will become a second computer monitor and you can then play it full screen from Quicktime Player, for example.

             

            Do I need to put it on a "bluray" disk or can we go off my hard drive?

             

            To do what? The only reason to put it on a Blu-Ray disc is to play it from a Blu-Ray disc player.

            If you want to watch it on an HDTV, it's convenient but not the only way.

             

            It will be tested on a HD television that is hooked up to a network.I have cs4 and osx10.5 but only 2gigs of memory. I only want to render a 5 second video (this is ALL for testing - and when I "get it" I will create full videos etc) so memory shouldnt be an issue?

             

            That's the minimum amount of RAM for AE. For a simple tests it will work. For more than that, you'll surely want more (consider 2GB per each core/processor in your computer, if you want to take advantage of multiple core rendering).

            • 3. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
              dansch37 Level 2

              My target delivery medium for this test is an HD television hooked up to a network. I will avoid the h264 for now at the cost of a little loss since it requires so much processing power. I will go for FLV for this first set of tests. But what about all the sub settings: Leave at default? Premultiplied or straight? Preserve RGB? In Format Options of FLV at the bottom in Advanced settings, should I set it to best from good? Im assuming yes unless that is being controlled by another setting. Also, how about the video codec in format options, OnVP6  is default. should i think about changing it to Sorensen spark? Bitrate-leave at 1500 VBR default?

              • 4. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                Sorenson Spark is the "old" Flash Video. You would only use that, if for some reason you would want to maintain compatibility down to Flash 6 on some website. For your purposes it is of no relevance. Likewise, you would not care about the Alpha settings, it's also something only relevant if you put transparent video on top of otehr Flash content. Quality and data rates should of course be cranked up. 1500 is realyl for web, for local playback you'd be more interested in using 7000 or higher. Preserve RGB would only apply, if you work with color profiles in your project that would result in the footage looking different in a non-calibrated browser environment. More info on that is in the generic color management info in the LiveDocs, but iof you're not using any of that, just leave it as is.

                 

                Mylenium

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                  dansch37 Level 2

                  ok, I got this error message. could it have to do with me choosing premultiplied over straight?

                  • 6. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                    Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                    Unfortunately, your image appears as queued. I can't see it. Could you quote the content of the message for now?

                    Meanwhile, make sure you take note of the comment in the AME dialog (see attached pic, hoping it doesn't appear as queued too), because some FLV presets instruct you to change the output size settings in AE's Render Queue (and you'll get an error if you don't). If you want to keep the original Comp's size in the exported file, make sure you pick one of the FLV presets called "Same as source".

                    Premultiplied vs straight are options about how Alpha (transparency) is stored in the exported file. It's unlikely to do anything in this case, since the option for Alpha in FLV is inside the FLV export dialog.

                    • 7. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                      dansch37 Level 2

                      heres what the error said: After Effects: AEGP Plugin media IO Plugin: there is a mismatch between output module settings and Transcode settings. please verify your settings and try again.. Property Data invalid! MedialO2 error: 0x400e0004

                      Frame dimensions out of bounds ( 5027 :: 12)

                       

                      Now, I tried that "same as source" you mentioned also. When i go went flv and went to "format options" in order to choose same as source, I chose "same as source flash 8 or higher" was that correct? Other settings that may help you help me:  My comp is 1920x1280 59.94 with square pixels

                       

                      Maybe I should turn off "frame blending" in the "render settings" "best settings"?

                      • 8. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                        Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                        This error message is exactly because of the reason I explained before. You originally picked a preset which states a specific frame size, and the comment field instructs you to change AE's output size in the RQ accordingly.

                        "Same as source - Flash 8 or higher" should be fine, you should only raise the data rate as Mylenium suggested.

                        The frame blending option in the Output Module instructs the renderer to honor or bypass the frame blending settings for each layer in the timeline, which is about having high quality speed changes (slow motion of footage,etc).

                        • 9. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                          dansch37 Level 2

                          I now chose the preset in my "compositions settings" HDTV 1080 29.97. I guess that made the source more valid than my custom settings which the only differnce was that my previous was a custom setting that had 59.94 fps (huh? I thought thats what it has to be for HD on a television/monitor [not web]?). So maybe when I chose same as source, it linked up more properly with the source now that its not a custom one?

                           

                          BUT...when im in the output module and i go to format options (this is where I am to choose "same as source" right? Well I do that (Same as source flash 8 or higher) and thats cool. but when I then change the bitrate to 7,000, it becomes a custom preset and no longer reads "Same as source flash 8 or higher"...and then on that page, whats the deal with the advanced settings where "undershoot" is set to 90 and quality is set to good. Should I mess with those? I would imagine I would want to change good to best (which also makes it a cutom preset no longer being "Same as source flash 8 or higher" again) So I let that happen, chose 7000 bitrate and best from advanced and everything seemed to work. I will get to view it on an hd television tonight but Im anticipating with no error, it will be the hd im looking for.

                           

                          sound like im starting to get it?

                          • 10. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                            Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            HDi in non PAL counties is 29.97 fps or 59.94 fields per second.

                             

                            It's important to realize that all HD content that is broadcast is interlaced. The 24P stuff has 3:2 pulldown added for broadcast, the progressive stuff is broadcast as pairs of identical fields which give the illusion of being true progressive.

                             

                            DVD players may or may not be capable of true progressive output. I'm not sure about Blue Ray players, but I think most of them are capable of true playback of both progressive and interlaced formats.

                             

                            Here's an interesting fact. The BBC requires that all HD content that has moving or rolling titles to be interlaced "to prevent judders". That means that you can shoot progressive, render progressive, but when you add your titles you must render that footage progressive so that the titles will crawl or roll smoothly. American broadcasters are not nearly so picky.

                             

                            One of these days I'm going to put up a chart of all of the various combinations of frame rate, frame size, and interlacing options that are considered HD. There are a bunch.

                             

                            If you've got some free time here's a link to the BBC's HD standards. They will curl you hair.

                            • 11. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                              dansch37 Level 2

                              your right my hair is curling. but seriously, thanks for the link, i now look forward to hours of scratching my head. just kidding, thanks all. ill report back some results as soon as I can.

                              • 12. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                                Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee
                                when im in the output module and i go to format options (this is where I am to choose "same as source" right? Well I do that (Same as source flash 8 or higher) and thats cool. but when I then change the bitrate to 7,000, it becomes a custom preset and no longer reads "Same as source flash 8 or higher"...

                                 

                                 

                                Don't worry. When you take an existing preset as a starting point and customize even a single aspect, it's no longer the same as the original preset. But the important thing is that you used that as a starting point. In particular, the important part is that this preset makes sure AME keeps the frame size in the After Effects' Comp size, instead of asking it to change it in the Render Queue.

                                 

                                 

                                whats the deal with the advanced settings where "undershoot" is set to 90 and quality is set to good. Should I mess with those? I would imagine I would want to change good to best

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Don't worry about that. The presets in Adobe Media Encoder are (or should be!) designed to aknowledge that not everyone is an encoding specialist. There's no need for you to deal with every obscure parameter out there. The preset you picked is good to get HD resoltuion at web data rates, so you're only raising the data rate for that purpose. It becomes a custom preset only in the sense that it's not exactly the same as the original. The reason why there isn't a preset with a higher data rate to begin with, is because... you probably would prefer H264 encoding for that. The main reasons to avoid H264 were player compatibility (it'll be less and less an issue now that Flash supports it) and the processing power required to play it at HD resolutions.

                                 

                                It's important to realize that all HD content that is broadcast is interlaced. The 24P stuff has 3:2 pulldown added for broadcast, the progressive stuff is broadcast as pairs of identical fields which give the illusion of being true progressive.

                                 

                                 

                                This is all true, Rick.

                                But it can also make him (or humans in general ) feel like this is terribly complicated. Which of course it can be, but there will be plenty of time for dealing with that. In some contexts, illusion of progressive and true progressive are almost the same thing. Things like PsF (progressive segmented frames) used for this... are  progressive from the point of view of perception (even if the container is not) and also from the point of view of rendering a file from After Effects. The clever tricks come later, and they could even be somebody else's problem

                                All this doesn't contradict what you said in any way. Just to keep things simple, a 29.97 fps 1080 file rendered without fields can be a production master. And certainly can be used for testing on an HDTV.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                                  dansch37 Level 2

                                  So over the weekend, I read the bbc materials on hd and together with these threads. It came together and also put it in a perspective that I kind of knew everything already but to see it there as a standard for a major station... Now, I think I have a firm grasp on the whole HD thing. Thanks to all. Can I give Correct Answer to everyone?

                                  • 14. Re: Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?
                                    Pierre Devereux Level 2

                                    Hi Rick,

                                     

                                    I have to second this (and third, fourth etc). We are shooting and creating ourproject specifically forthe BBC. I have read the document..then re-read it, then placed it under my pillow in the hopes that some of the information will seep through during the long long sleepless night IT has caused!

                                     

                                    Anyway, I am taking a paragraph at a time, and so far, so good (I think)

                                     

                                    Oh, how we long for the day of a single signal, and uber format -

                                     

                                    “One Format to rule them all, One Format to find them,

                                    One Format to bring them all and in AE to bind them.”

                                     

                                     

                                    sigh....