22 Replies Latest reply on May 31, 2009 9:23 AM by the_wine_snob

    Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor

    Rich_P7

      Hi, when I play my video back after it has been made into a video file. (it plays back in windows media player) it is a bit quieter than when it is played in the editor. This is a little annoying because I got the sound right in the ditor - so it is too quiet now. I used 2 was to boost the audiotrack - I used the Audio Gain option to boost the sound to a certain extent and for the rest I used the track volume slider in 'Sceneline' where you can adjust the volume for a whole track. I am wondering if only the 'Audio gain' part has come through to the finished video. Is this normal? Thank you for any help.

       

      Rich

        • 1. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
          Paul_LS Level 4

          Sorry I am not too clear. Is the "whole" volume too low or is one audio track lower than another? If the former then Media Player has a volume control that is set different to the editor.

          • 2. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            You should never judge your video project's audio by how it sounds on your computer. Instead, open your Audio Mixer (by clicking the link along the top of your timeline). You ideally want your audio to peak at "zero" with little or none in the "red zone".

             

            This will give your final DVD an ideal audio level.

            • 3. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              How is the Audio Level set in WMP (Windows Media Player)? Also, remember that there are differences between different players and how they display Video and play Audio. Also, depending on the source of the Audio, there can be totally different settings in Windows and/or the soundcard/chip's console.

               

              Last, I shoot for peaks to about -3 db on my meters for stereo and about -3 db for front/center channels and -6db for rear speakers, when I do DD 5.1 SS Export. All of my Audio for any Menus will be -6 db. No peaks EVER go above 0 db (the real max for digital Audio).

               

              I also mix/adjust my Audio via the Audio Mixer Panel, and use my headphones.

               

              Let us know about the Audio Levels setting for Windows, WMP and also for your soundcard/chip's control console. Might well be something there.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                Rich_P7 Level 1

                Thank you for all the responses. What the problem is - is that the overall sound level on the video as a whole is quieter when the finished video is played back in Window Media Player - than it is when it is played in the editor in Adobe Premiere Elements. The video is going on YouTube and I always like the ones which are louder, esp since on some computers you can't increase the volume far enough if it is quiet, but you can always turn it down. Obviously I want it to be as loud as possible without being distorted.

                 

                The volume is set to maximum on Media Player, and I have it open at the same time as Premiere and it is a fair bit quieter than when I play the video back in Media Player. Anyway for the time being I just made a louder one in Premiere to compensate   I'll see what happens when it goes on to Youtube - I will upload both versions into a private space and use the one which sounds the best.

                • 5. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Rich,

                   

                  It is highly possible that PE and WMP are using different settings on your audio sub-system. What are the Edit>Preferences>Audio Hardware setting for PE, and also the ASIO settings? I do not believe that WMP has a place to adjust any real settings that would affect audio - other than the slider on the control console.

                   

                  To obtain the loudest audio possible, without (much) distortion, you can open Audio Mixer and ride the gain to where you are in the yellow below 0db for all peaks. Do not let the meters get to the red.

                   

                  You might also have some luck with the Normalize Effect (Audio Effects) and choose 0db as the Normalization limit. You could also do the same in Audition, or Audacity.

                   

                  In Audition and in PrPro, the meters have a nice feature - any peak that hits red, will trigger a light (a block of red) at the top for every play session. All you have to do is look at the meters when your done, and if there's a red light, some peak hit it. Watching the meters respond tells you the same thing.

                   

                  Also be aware that YouTube will likely recompress your Audio and Video, so what you upload might not be what is posted. Then there is the problem that you have no control on how those, who view your piece, will have their systems set. A lot of variables to consider.

                   

                  That is why I always mix to what I believe is the best level and leave it at that. I have no control over how my DVD will be played, on what sort of system it will be played, and how the viewer will have their system set up. Some believe that they should mix to the "lowest common denometer," which would be a 3" TV speaker. I mix to the best, and let the user figure it out.

                   

                  Good luck, and please post a link, when done - I will remember to turn my system's audio down! [Grin]

                   

                  Hunt

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                    As I said, Rich, if you will set your video volume so that it peaks at around zero on your Audio Mixer meters, your video will be at the optimal level.

                     

                    Trying to make it all louder doesn't fix anything. It just over-modulates the sound so that it sounds all garbled.

                    • 7. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                      Ed.Macke Level 3

                      OK, maybe it's just me, but I've noticed a difference in dB level measurement between the Audio Mixer (the window where you can change volume via sliders and balance knobs) and the Audio Meters monitor panel.


                      For example, the Audio Meters might say a clip's volume is -6 dB (the yellow threshhold, IIRC) but the Audio Mixer will report the volume as 0 db (almost red). It might be the other way around (i.e. Meter = 0, Mixer = -6), but I know there was a definite difference.

                       

                      I normally use the Audio Meter (I often use keyframes for volume and just always keep the Meter window open to make sure I got it right). But for non-keyframe work, the Mixer seems quicker and more accurate. But I don't like to switch between the two because I get different results.


                      That seems strange to me... I can't believe they'd have two different volume calculation routines.


                      Has anybody else noticed that? Any way to tell which is more accurate?

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Ed,

                         

                        Others have had similar observations, and in both PE and PrPro. I always use the Audio Mixer Panel, or Adobe Audition, and both of those seem pretty consistant on my computers. I usually ignore other meters, even in PrPro, and rely on Audio Mixer (or Audition) for my settings. For me, it's more in the actual monitoring with my headphones, and I use the meters as a final "check." I also use PrPro's Audio Mixer (or Audition) as my listening source, and ignore other players. As this provides me with my baseline, I do not worry too much about the equipment on the client's end of things. If I get it right, and consistant, I have no control as to the environment for playback.

                         

                        You are not alone in this one. Someone with a great deal of experience made some good, and possibly correct comments, in a similar thread on the PrPro forum. Do not recall the details, or even in which version sub-forum it might have appeared. If I find it, I'll post a link. However, with the "Search" function on the new fora, I do not hold out a lot of hope.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                          Ed.Macke Level 3

                          Because I couldn't tell which was one was accurate, I went with the "lowest common denominator" and made sure my projects didn't go above 0 db (red) in *either* window.


                          My thinking was I'd rather err on the side of being too quiet than too loud: too quiet can be compensated for by turning up the volume, but too loud means distortion and turning down the volume would just give you quieter distortion.


                          In any event, it's good to know I'm not the only one.

                           

                          For me, it's more in the actual monitoring with my headphones, and I use the meters as a final "check."

                           

                          Heh, for me it's just the opposite!


                          I keep the little monitor window open, and am constantly tweaking clip volume to keep the dB bars in the sweet spot. Then when I'm finished with a clip, I'll listen with headphones as a final "reality" check, and do any subtle corrections. I trust the mathematical precision of the dB bars over my fickle hearing and Windows' seemingly endless volume settings. I just wish I knew *which* dB bar to trust...

                          • 10. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Because I couldn't tell which was one was accurate, I went with the "lowest common denominator" and made sure my projects didn't go above 0 db (red) in *either* window.


                            My thinking was I'd rather err on the side of being too quiet than too loud: too quiet can be compensated for by turning up the volume, but too loud means distortion and turning down the volume would just give you quieter distortion.


                            I am with you on this. That is why I will usually end up with a -3db max for front channels and most often a -6db max for rear, though that does change by the source. I also use the -6db for Menu Audio. I hate the Menus that rattle my windows! Besides, any Audio on a Menu should be totally background, IMO, and might also be left looping for a bit - loud gets annoying quickly.

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                              Rich_P7 Level 1

                              Thanks for all the help. I have looked at the audio settings

                               

                              Here are some of them (I don't really understand them)

                               

                              ASIO full duplex
                              SigmaTel Heigh Def Audio 2048 0 2 16 no

                              play audio while scrubbing
                              miniumum interval timing 20 millisecs

                               

                              My vid is probably a bit loud in YouTube now  but you can turn the volume down and its ok. It doesn't need to be that perfect anyway. It took a couple of hours to upload (this was the second quieter one), and I don't want to do it again. I don't know if I should post a link, its a music video of a film, but I am worried the film might offend some people. Its meant to be a funny film, but I'm not sure if everyone will appreciate it. send me a message if anyone still wants the link.

                               

                              best wishes - Rich

                              • 12. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                In your ASIO settings, what is your Sync Reference set to? What other choices appear below your Soundcard (the ones that are unchecked)? Everything else looks good.

                                 

                                Glad that you got your movie uploaded and are pretty satisfied with the final Audio,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                  Rich_P7 Level 1

                                  Thanks Hunt. I appreciate all the help.

                                   

                                  The sync reference is set to 'no' on output ports box, and 'yes' on input ports box

                                   

                                  You mean on the same page? There is one other option that is unchecked on the inputs box and it is exactly the same.

                                  • 14. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Now, my Audio hardware is different than yours. Still, here are my settings for ASIO and also for OutPut:

                                     

                                    ASIO Settings 02.jpg

                                    OutPut Mapping 01.jpg

                                    Maybe this will help. Just let me know.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                      Rich_P7 Level 1

                                      Thanks Hunt. Mine are the exactly the same as yours - but with different hardware names. Not sure why it sounds dif in Media Player. I will just make it a fraction louder in Premiere to compensate in future I think   Thanks for all the help

                                      • 16. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Sounds like a good plan. Just be careful to not clip the Audio. If you do, distortion will rear up its ugly head and in a hurry.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                          Duke Peter

                                          I am not sure whether this comment is relevent, but the audio coder used to output the video can have a bearing on sound loudness.

                                           

                                          When I listen to (and watch) a commercial DVD on my TV, I have to set the volume on the TV to about 50. When I watch a video direct from my video camera, I have to set the volume to about 30. If I make a DVD from the contents of the video camera using MPA (MPEG-1 Layer 2) coder in Pinnacle Studio, I have to set the volume to about 30 (ie no change). But If I use the Dolby Digital coder with Pinnacle Studio (or another program, I forget which, either Prem Elements or Sony DVD Architect) then I have to set the volume to about 50. Thus Dolby Digital produces less volume. Note that the video camera has AGC, so the audio is usually the maximum it can be before distortion.

                                           

                                          Peter

                                          • 18. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Peter,

                                             

                                            Interesting observations. Thanks for sharing.

                                             

                                            I've got a question, regarding your AC3 encoding to DVD: are you using DD 5.1 SS, via a DD spec'ed encoder, or DD AC3 stereo? Also, have you ever done the same DVD with the same Audio levels and used PCM/WAV, the other allowed Audio format on DVD-Video. I'd really be interested in seeing the results, if you have. If you have not, then maybe I can set up a Project with non 5.1 Audio (because PCM/WAV will only be stereo) and do a test. Ninety-nine percent of my Projects involve 5.1 SS, so I don't have one handy that I could do a stereo AC3 and a WAV, but can build one in not too much time. If you've already done it, that would save me time.

                                             

                                            Thanks for making me think about these possibilities,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                              Duke Peter Level 1

                                              Hunt

                                               

                                              I have only used stereo so far.

                                               

                                              I have never used uncompressed audio to make a DVD that I can recall. (Maybe back in the early days). I might try it and compare with the two coders when I next make a DVD.

                                               

                                              Peter

                                              • 20. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Peter,

                                                 

                                                If one is not doing DD 5.1 SS, requiring the AC3 CODEC (and the proper encoding), my Audiophile gurus tell me that PCM/WAV can be discerned by their "golden ears," over the stereo AC3. While I have a marvelous Audio system and also a marvelous Audio sub-system on my home theater system, I cannot tell the difference. My guess is that it is age, doing practical pistol shooting and photographing rock bands in my youth, that have cost me some of my hearing. Still, if people, such as Neil Wilkes, who makes his living doing commercial Audio releases all over Europe, tell me otherwise, I have to believe them.

                                                 

                                                Let me know what your ears tell you.

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                 

                                                PS 99% of my Projects are DD 5.1 SS and many also include DTS Audio tracks, so this precludes much use of the uncompressed PCM/WAV.

                                                • 21. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                                  Peter Duke

                                                  >

                                                  "Let me know what your ears tell you."

                                                   

                                                  My golden ears turned to lead many years ago. I wish I had some pleasureable miss-spent youth to blame and look back on, but I'm afraid it is just due to "wearing out" as my doctor once put it. If I can understand what is being said I am as happy as a pig in mud.

                                                   

                                                  The difference in volume I was talking about was quite significant as you can tell by the volume control settings: (30 vs 50). At least 10 dB but I am guessing and relying on my also defective memory.

                                                   

                                                  Peter

                                                  • 22. Re: Sound Volume on Finished Video not as Loud as in Editor
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                    Next personal Project that I do, I'll do the Audio Track as PCM/WAV and an alternate to AC3 (stereo) from the same mix. While I won't be able to do a dynamic A-B test, I can set up a Menu to allow me to swap Audio Tracks and then play back the same source in a couple of moments. My main home theater system is pretty well calibrated (still working on the perfect Center Channel balance - 'cause my hearing is somewhat similar to yours), so other than the time lag, of swapping Audio Sources on a DVD, I should be able to get some idea of the SPL difference between just the encoding scheme.

                                                     

                                                    I'll get back to this thread with what I find.

                                                     

                                                    Hunt