1 2 Previous Next 50 Replies Latest reply on Jul 21, 2014 9:30 AM by neil wilkes

    DTS Audio

    Typhoon859 Level 1

      I have these DTS 5.1ch audio tracks.  Is there any way I can get them to work in Adobe Premiere?

        • 1. Re: DTS Audio
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          DTS is what you deliver when you're done editing.  I'm not aware of any method that allows Premiere to use them as source.

          • 2. Re: DTS Audio
            Typhoon859 Level 1

            Yeah, I can't really find a method to even convert them to uncompressed WAV..  Do you know of maybe some indirect way?  AviSynth wouldn't work would it?  I doubt it...

            • 3. Re: DTS Audio
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              I've never had to do that, so I just don't have any suggestions.  In the main, DTS media is very likely to be copyrighted, and thus not allowed for use in an NLE.

              • 4. Re: DTS Audio
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                I use it fairly often, but in the direction that you mention in your earlier reply - Encode to DTS for use in an alternate Audio Track in Encore.

                 

                For the authority on DTS (in the Adobe fora), you might want to seek the advice of Neil Wilkes. Considering the situation, I'd post to the Adobe Audition forum, and hope that Neil sees it, and can comment.

                 

                I've only gone one way, and never the other.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: DTS Audio
                  Typhoon859 Level 1

                  Thanks, lol.  Well obviously exporting DTS isn't a problem ^^

                   

                  I'm not expecting much from this to be honest (like I did with other things).  THIS would be fair if it didn't work.

                  • 6. Re: DTS Audio
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    In theory, you should be able to do it. In practice, well we all know that can be another matter. I've no experience even trying, but if anybody knows, it'll be Neil. He's also one of the MOD's on the Encore forum, but has not been around that much recently. His main expertise is DVD-Audio, but nowadays that means DVD-Video with a heavy concentration on the Audio aspect.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: DTS Audio
                      neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Decoding DTS Audio is indeed possible to do without too much aggravation.

                      Run a google search for the utility "Tranzcode" and to make things easier, Tranzgui as well.

                      This will take your DTS audio multiplex & decode it back to 6 mono WAV files again.

                      Alternatively if you have the DTS-HD MAS encoder suite, run up the DTS-HD StreamPlayer (version 2) and drop the file into the playlist, then just hit the "Decode to PCM" button & it's done.

                      Limitations of Tranzgui/Tranzcode - no support for DTS 96/24, only 24/48 and DTS-WAV files.

                       

                      FYI, there are 2 different types of DTS multiplex in the main, DTS-WAV and DTS-DVD.

                      DTS-WAV files will look like straight 16/44.1 stereo CD Audio files, and will also have the .WAV extension. These are still genuine, discrete surround files though but with a fudged header allowing a discrete surround mix to be written to a CD Audio disc.

                      The other types are .dts ("padded", now obsolete) and .cpt ("compact"). These will have a sampling rate of 48KHz or 96KHz, depending on the encoder & source material used. Due to the nature of DTS, a DTS 96/24 file will still have the "core" stream at 24/48 in there, and the additional frequency response is handled in extensions.

                       

                      Downsides?

                      You'll need another encoder to get these back to DTS streams again if you edit anything at all - and there is no encoder for Premiere.

                      Cheapest is the SurCode DSTS-DVD encoder http://www.surcode.com

                       

                      Hope this helps.....

                      • 8. Re: DTS Audio
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Neil,

                         

                        Thank you for the informative reply. I think that the OP is well on the way towards success.

                         

                        Appreciated,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: DTS Audio
                          Typhoon859 Level 1

                          Yeah, that's what I guessed...  It's DTS-WAV btw, from CDs.  After one of the programs outputs them to 6 mono files, what do I do with them?

                          • 10. Re: DTS Audio
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Wasn't your intention to edit them? In that case I would import them into your project and do what you intended, edit.

                            • 11. Re: DTS Audio
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              This will depend on what you wish to do with your Project's output.

                               

                              One can Import each mono WAV to the Project and then Timeline. There you can tailor them with the Audio Mixer to suit your needs. If you are outputting to non DD 5.1 SS, they will just be mixed down to the stereo Master. If you ARE outputting to DD 5.1 SS, you will need the SurCode Dolby Encoder plug-in. Hint, buy it through PrPro, as you will save $'s over the Minnetonka site's price. Great plug-in BTW. I use it so often, that I bought a second license for the laptop.

                               

                              Or, one can bring these files into Audition (probably into SB too?) and do a stereo mix for Export to PCM/WAV 48KHz 16-bit. That would then be Imported to PrPro and used as a normal WAV file. One could possibly do this with the freeware, Audacity, if they did not have Audition or SB. Audition will keep the spatial aspect of these files via WMA 5.1 output, but I do not think that PrPro will play nicely with the WMA. Never tried it though. If you test this, please report your findings, as it will likely help someone else.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                Typhoon859 Level 1

                                I've tried before with BeLight, HeadAC3he, and AACMachine (general ones I use for other audio).  They all failed to decode the DTS format.  I basically needed something to convert it and now I got it.  I guess my question is answered.

                                 

                                It's just, something is bothering me which I know you can answer - I just don't quite know how to phrase it.  Uhh, why is DTS audio so.. foreign?  Lol.  Like, why is it so difficult to work with it?

                                 

                                With the DTS-HD StreamPlayer though, it can convert the DTS to PCM 5.1 and that would directly work in Premiere?

                                • 13. Re: DTS Audio
                                  Typhoon859 Level 1

                                  I saw an option for AAC 5.1 surround.  Wouldn't that work?  I think it works for the 5.1ch AC3 files that I have.  Why do I need that plugin?  Do I need it for the muxing of the 6 mono audio files or something?

                                  • 14. Re: DTS Audio
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    To Export as AC3 DD 5.1 SS, you need to encode the file as such. In PrPro, you get three "trials" of the SurCode plug-in. Only three, so use them wisely. After that point, if you choose AC3 DD 5.1 SS, you will get another screen, instructing you that you have used 'em up. It will direct you to a "secret" entrance to the Minnetonka Audio SurCode site. There, you can purchase the encoder for a discount, as you are a PrPro-user.

                                     

                                    There are other AC3 5.1 encoders out there. Some are full DD-certified, and some are not. I think that Nero might have one in their full suite. Do not know the certificaiton status of that one. It also seems that Sony Vegas (probably the Pro version) has one, which I think is DD-certified.

                                     

                                    From PrPro (after the three uses), you can only Export as AC3 stereo.

                                     

                                    Hope that this helps. You might wish to Google for other 5.1 SS encoders. Do not know what you'll find, how well they'll work, or if they could possibly work from within PrPro - I highly doubt it.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: DTS Audio
                                      Typhoon859 Level 1

                                      Oh.  So I need to buy that in order to export in AC3 5.1 surround in general.  Well how about AAC?  I don't see a problem with that.

                                      • 16. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                        Like, why is [DTS] so difficult to work with it?

                                         

                                        Because most people don't work with it.  They work with the original .wav recordings, and create a DTS output for delivery when they're done.

                                        • 17. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                          Typhoon859 Level 1

                                          I meant in general, not just Premiere.

                                          • 18. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            DTS is a proprietary encoding/decoding scheme. Though there are some "flavors" of it, it is highly regulated. More so, than DD 5.1 SS. When employed properly, it is excellent. In the DVD world, it is NOT part of the required Audio specs. It is totally optional. By this, I mean that you cannot have a DVD-Video using only DTS Audio. You can, however, access the DTS stream for playback on the DVD. This is usually done via a selection Menu. If you do not do this, only the non-optional Audio stream will play from the DVD. All players go to it first, and will not seek out any optional streams, unless directed to do so. If the set-top player is DTS certified, it will play the full DTS encoded stream and do the channel separation properly. If it is not, most will treat this stream as a stereo source and play it that way - if at all. Most newer players ARE DTS capable, though some might not treat the stream as well as others. If your has a DTS sticker or logo, you will be fine.

                                             

                                            Now, to encode to DTS, you will need a DTS encoder, just like the SurCode DD 5.1 SS. SurCode has one, though it is a stand-alone application, not a plug-in for PrPro, like the DD 5.1 SS encoder. You will need to prepare your Auido source files (can be done in PrPro, or Audition, or a combo of the two) and then manually feed these into the DTS encoder to produce the necessary file. This file is then Imported into Encore, where it can be added as one of the optional Audio Tracks.

                                             

                                            As far as the DTS-Streamplayer, I cannot help you. You are in completely new territory to me.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                              neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Typhoon859 wrote:

                                               

                                              I've tried before with BeLight, HeadAC3he, and AACMachine (general ones I use for other audio).  They all failed to decode the DTS format.  I basically needed something to convert it and now I got it.  I guess my question is answered.

                                               

                                              It's just, something is bothering me which I know you can answer - I just don't quite know how to phrase it.  Uhh, why is DTS audio so.. foreign?  Lol.  Like, why is it so difficult to work with it?

                                               

                                              With the DTS-HD StreamPlayer though, it can convert the DTS to PCM 5.1 and that would directly work in Premiere?

                                               

                                              Those "decoders" are all AC3 hacks - that is, they are (usually) reverse engineered from the published AC3 specs, and as such are notrelibaly going to produce DVD compliant ouytput, or a successful decode either - especially if said AC3 file was encoded from one of these in the first place.

                                               

                                              With the DTS-HD StreamPlayer, the PCM output will be at the depth & rate originally encoded.

                                              So, your DTS-WAV files, which have a .wav extension, can be encoded from either 16 bit 44,100KHz resolution or 24-bit 44,100KHz resolution source files. The DTS-HD StreamPlayer will decode these back to eitrher 16 or 24-bit PCM at 44,100KHz.

                                              These - to be used in DVD or Premiere set up as a DVD project - would need to be resampled to 48,000KHz.

                                              R8Brain is a free sample rate converter from http://www.voxengo.com with a superior quality paid version called R8Brain Pro also available.

                                              If you have Audition, this will convert the sample rate too.

                                              Tranzcode will also decode DTS-WAV files to 32-bit floating point files, at encoded resolution. So DTS-WAV would decode to 32/44.1 and would be fine in Premiere. You would need to set up Premiere with a 5.1 Master Track, and 6 mono tracks with an audio file on each track, set & routed to the correct output channel in the "EDIT/Preferences/Audio Input/Output" section of Premiere.

                                               

                                              .dts files can also be decoded in Tranzcode or DTS-HD StreamPlayer, although they would need to be renamed as .cpt for the DTS-HD StreamPlayer to decode as it does not understand the padded (.dts) format, only the compact (.cpt) one.

                                               

                                              DTS is not difficult to work with - quite the contrary to be honest.

                                              If you want to use 24/96 5.1 AUdio in DVD-Video, then DTS is the way to go. Encode at 24/96, this will also automatically include the core stream at 24/48 so all players will get audio output from the same file. With DTS-HD MAS it's even better.

                                              One .dtshd file can contain the lossless mix at up to 7.1, plus the DTS 9624 stream, plus a stereo downmix, plus the original core stream - all in one encoding. So the end user will always get the highest quality their player is capable of outputting - with no need to select or set anything up. Just opt for the DTS stream, and off you go. Beats the heck out of Dolby Digital (AC3), with it's terrible transient smearing.

                                              • 20. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Neil,

                                                 

                                                Just for clarification, can DTS encoded Audio be used as the primary Audio stream on a DVD-Video. I thought that it was "optional" only. I think I am about to eat some of my earlier words - what wine goes best with "crow?"

                                                 

                                                Thanks for your input,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                  neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  the_wine_snob wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Neil,

                                                   

                                                  Just for clarification, can DTS encoded Audio be used as the primary Audio stream on a DVD-Video. I thought that it was "optional" only. I think I am about to eat some of my earlier words - what wine goes best with "crow?"

                                                   

                                                  Thanks for your input,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  Nope, it can't.

                                                  Primary Stream on a VTS must be either LPCM or Dolby Digital. The DD can be stereo or surround (with the downmix, as you cannot disable the 5.1 DD Downmix metadata) but the LPCM can only be stereo in the real world.

                                                  The specs actually did allow for 5.1 LPCM at a maximum rate of 6.144mb/sec, which is 6 channels at 16/48 resolution - but this was never implemented in any players and has fallen into oblivion.

                                                  • 22. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                    Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                    Lol, man, I wish I knew more about audio.  It's just sound so I can't really understand what you mean by when you say something like "transient smearing", lol.  Anyway, I have a lot of unrelated noob audio questions and I'm hoping that maybe you can answer them.  Nobody knows too much about audio in the encoding world.  A lot of things I'm confused about and won't remember it all but we'll start with this...

                                                     

                                                    1) What exactly is Dynamic compression and why would it be used?

                                                    2) Hybrid Gain, PreGain, and PostGain - what exactly are they and what are the differences between them?

                                                    3) In terms of quality/how it works, what exactly is the difference between 16bit, 24bit, etc..?  And what is the floating one all about?

                                                    4) (A very large indirect question which I don't expect a crazy full-detailed explanation for) In your opinion, which is the best quality codec for stereo and 5.1ch?  This question refers to purely the encoding world, not official DVD or CD formats.  So, for example, for stereo OGG vs. MP3 (like in terms of bitrate - so 128kbps OGG has better sound quality than 128kbps MP3 for example).  Things like that...  I still can never figure out what to use and all this stuff is just confusing.  I dunno... (like, in the post above, I didn't understand anything you said :/)

                                                     

                                                    Basically, I'm pretty much searching for a tutor in these things because I'm interested but don't really understand much past frequency and bitrates...  It's ok if you don't respond to all of this cause I know it's a bit much.  Sorry.

                                                    • 23. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                      Neil,

                                                       

                                                      Thank you. Looks like no "crow" on the dinner table this evening - yet.

                                                       

                                                      I feel like Nipper with this thread:

                                                       

                                                      RCA Nipper.png

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                      • 24. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                        neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Typhoon859 wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Lol, man, I wish I knew more about audio.  It's just sound so I can't really understand what you mean by when you say something like "transient smearing", lol.  Anyway, I have a lot of unrelated noob audio questions and I'm hoping that maybe you can answer them.  Nobody knows too much about audio in the encoding world.  A lot of things I'm confused about and won't remember it all but we'll start with this...

                                                         

                                                        1) What exactly is Dynamic compression and why would it be used?

                                                        2) Hybrid Gain, PreGain, and PostGain - what exactly are they and what are the differences between them?

                                                        3) In terms of quality/how it works, what exactly is the difference between 16bit, 24bit, etc..?  And what is the floating one all about?

                                                        4) (A very large indirect question which I don't expect a crazy full-detailed explanation for) In your opinion, which is the best quality codec for stereo and 5.1ch?  This question refers to purely the encoding world, not official DVD or CD formats.  So, for example, for stereo OGG vs. MP3 (like in terms of bitrate - so 128kbps OGG has better sound quality than 128kbps MP3 for example).  Things like that...  I still can never figure out what to use and all this stuff is just confusing.  I dunno... (like, in the post above, I didn't understand anything you said :/)

                                                         

                                                        Basically, I'm pretty much searching for a tutor in these things because I'm interested but don't really understand much past frequency and bitrates...  It's ok if you don't respond to all of this cause I know it's a bit much.  Sorry.

                                                        Oh, sheesh.

                                                        Let's try & explain - although it could easily take up an entire book.....

                                                        1/. Dynamic Compression. I assume you're referring to the term as used in the Dolby Digital encoders here? It's something that goes hand in glove with the Dialnorm control word, and is basically used (Dynamic Range Compression, or DRC) to allow the full bandwidth of a Dolby Digital bitstream to be played at a reduced dynamic range - in short, quieter.

                                                        There are several settings for this in a DD encoder. Basically, they all differ in where & at what threshold they set the null bands and the bands to be compressed (which reduces transients, or peaks, and raises the floor in doing so thereby reducing the total dynamic range. For example, you may have a transient peak at around -0.3dBFS, with the floor at around -18dBFS probably lower in most films (This is not really suitable for music encoding - music encoding should have the DRC control word set to NONE and dialnorm left alone at -31).

                                                        Dialnorm is where the L,R,Ls,Rs channels are attenuated & relative mix levels left preserved to maintain a standard level (as in "percieved loudness") for the dialogue track. This is arbitrarily set to -31dB. I cannot remember why this value was selected.

                                                        It gets confusing - so if you really, really want to know it's best to go to the Dolby Labs website & download the PDF on the subject from their technical library "Dolby Digital Professional Encoding Guidelines", give that a good read & shout back if you need more info.

                                                        Or just shout back anyway & I will pick this up again tomorrow.

                                                         

                                                        2 - Hybrid Gain is something I have no understanding of. What context have you seen this used in, please?

                                                        Ditto the others. Pre Gain is usually something I apply before an audio signal gets into the DAW, Post Gain is an adjustment once recorded. Context may give something different though.

                                                         

                                                        3 - 16-bit & 24-bit Audio. Phew.

                                                        16 bit audio has a total of 65,536 possible equivalents for analogue voltage & a total of 96dB of dynamic range available.

                                                        24-bit has something like 16,777,216 possible values & 144dB of dynamic range.

                                                        32-bit float (depending on type) usually has 24 bit fixed point with an 8-bit floating mantissa, giving a theoretical 1500dB of dynamic range and is impossible to clip the signal within the floating point path. Well, it's theoretically possible to clip, but highly unlikely. Premiere uses this internally.

                                                         

                                                        4. Personally speaking, lossless is better if you need to reduce data, PCM is also lossless but can be losslessly reduced. FLAC will do this, WAVPACK will do this. Dob;t know too much about ogg, and loathe MP3 more than words can say.

                                                        For surround, 24/96 PCM is best (24/192 I have never yet heard) and 24/48 is equally acceptable & most would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

                                                        For DVD-Video, DTS 9624 is the best it can get in surround, with standard DTS second best. Dolby is third.

                                                        Stereo? Most DVD players are capable of outputting 24/96 stereo PCM, but a lot of players will truncate to 16 boits or sample rate convert to 48KHz.

                                                        Only 16/48 is actually mandatory in DVD-Video.

                                                         

                                                        Hope this helps.

                                                        If not, will be back tomorrow

                                                        • 25. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                          Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                          Thanks.  From what I understand, Dynamic Range Compression is pointless.  If not, well, it doesn't seem too important for utilization.

                                                           

                                                          Umm, for tomorrow then, the reason why I don't understand certain explanations (besides the fact that I don't know what some things are at all like DAW and what is meant "65,536 possible equivalents for analogue voltage") is because even if you describe to me what the things mean in terms of values, statistics, and other stuff like that, I still won't really understand what the changes in terms of what I hear.  I'm not familiar enough with the concepts to understand their values, know what I mean?...

                                                           

                                                          With the dB range, I understood that.  Basically, you said that higher bits are capable of playing a larger range of quiet and loud sound.

                                                           

                                                          With the Gain stuff, didn't understand any of that really.  Umm, HybridGain along with the other two is an option in the BeSweet OTA.

                                                           

                                                          I think you're the wrong person to ask about the best format.  What you mentioned isn't exactly what I was looking for.  What I meant is like, ok, I have these DVD-Audio rips (AC3).  One is stereo, the other is 5.1 surround.  I want to encode those files to make them smaller.  I didn't mean what's the best in general for like DVD-Playback.  That's what the MP3 and OGG formats were made for and since you sorta have a disgust for MP3 and since you were mentioning all the lossless formats, I'm assuming you never really thought about size.  You seem to be looking mainly at the industrial formats and manipulations of them (best I can think of phrasing it).

                                                           

                                                          What you mentioned did remind of a few other questions that I've always had but just ignored.  I'm manily just confused so might not know what I'm asking so try to sorta expand on the questions to what you think is necessary to be explained.

                                                           

                                                          1. What exactly is the WAV format?  It can be like anything...  It's confusing me.  Like, is there like an actual WAV codec (besides the uncompressed one) or is it just a container like MKV is for video?

                                                          2. What's the point to converting to a lossless format besides to get it working in a program that doesn't support the original format that you converted from?

                                                          3. LPCM...  Is that like an actual format?  This is what I know about it - it's the output the most HDTVs ONLY support, it cannot be transmitted through an Optical cable, and I think that besides with a direct connection, only HDMI can transmit it.

                                                          4. Out of the lossless formats, PCM is the only one capable of 5.1ch?

                                                          5. Lossless formats just reproduce the same sound quality almost perfectly as the original used right?

                                                          6. What exactly is True-HD Audio?...

                                                          7. What format are regular Stereo CDs?

                                                          8. There are an insane amount of AAC codecs.  Which one is like the original one/who originall developed this format?  What do you think of it?  Which codec utilizes it the best?

                                                          9. I guess this applies to the WAV question but I'll ask it separately..  What's AIFF and DD-WAV?

                                                           

                                                          That's all for now I guess... lol.  At least this will remind you how knowledgeable you are ^^

                                                          • 26. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                            1. What exactly is the WAV format?  It can be like anything...  It's confusing me.  Like, is there like an actual WAV codec (besides the uncompressed one) or is it just a container like MKV is for video?

                                                            It is an audio format, just like AIFF. It is universal for Lunux, PC and Mac. AIFF is pretty much Mac-only, though some PC programs can use it and manipulate it. There can be various setting, bit-rate, sample frequency, etc. within the WAV file.

                                                             

                                                            2. What's the point to converting to a lossless format besides to get it working in a program that doesn't support the original format that you converted from?

                                                            To maintain the highest quality, when transfering between programs. Most often used, just as you state, when one format does not work in a particular program. There are lossless Video CODEC's too for the same purpose.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            3. LPCM...  Is that like an actual format?  This is what I know about it - it's the output the most HDTVs ONLY support, it cannot be transmitted through an Optical cable, and I think that besides with a direct connection, only HDMI can transmit it.

                                                            Linear Pulse Code Modulation. It is a descriptor of an audio file, most often a WAV file.

                                                             

                                                            4. Out of the lossless formats, PCM is the only one capable of 5.1ch?

                                                            Do not know this one. I know that WMA (kind of a version of WAV, by MS, can contain 5.1 signals) is lossless.

                                                             

                                                            5. Lossless formats just reproduce the same sound quality almost perfectly as the original used right?

                                                            Theoretically AS perfectly.

                                                             

                                                            6. What exactly is True-HD Audio?...

                                                            Not familiar with this term. How is it used? Is it a trademarked audio scheme?

                                                             

                                                            7. What format are regular Stereo CDs?

                                                            Normally, CD-Audio appears as .CDA format. The signal is 44.1KHz 16-bit. As a note: DVD audio is 48KHz 16-bit

                                                             

                                                            8. There are an insane amount of AAC codecs.  Which one is like the original one/who originall developed this format?  What do you think of it?  Which codec utilizes it the best?

                                                            AAC is Advanced Audio Coding. There are many, as you note. You'd have to look at the timeline of their development to decide which one came first. I think that this study will possibly yield who holds the © on each one. All are lossy. The degree of the loss will depend on the format/CODEC used.

                                                             

                                                            9. I guess this applies to the WAV question but I'll ask it separately..  What's AIFF and DD-WAV?

                                                            AIFF = Audio Interchange File Format. Basically a Mac audio format now. DD-WAV=? Do you mean Dolby Digital WAV? In Audio and Video, "DD" is often shorthand for Dolby Digital, i.e. Dolby Labs.

                                                             

                                                            Sorry that I did not know all of these.

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              I meant in general, not just Premiere.

                                                               

                                                              So did I.  DTS audio is not a typical source format.  It's a finished product.

                                                               

                                                              If you want to build yourself a house, you don't start by tearing down someone else's house and using that as raw material.  People generally don't like that (plus it's probably illegal).  You start with your own raw materials and build your house with them.

                                                              • 28. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                                I like the analogy.  It's very good.  But I've always understood that.  Usually, I don't have a choice though...  You've been telling me that for anything I've ever said.  Look, I'm not going to hire a band or call up Queen to ask them permission if I could use part of their song and if I could get their original recording for it.  I don't know WTH you're trying to prove.  Sorry, but all you ever tell me is, "Don't do that".  NOT helpful.

                                                                • 29. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                  Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                                  Cool.  Thanks for your time.  Normally, when I used to get dedicated answers like these, I didn't continue asking anything because I'd imagine that it's annoying but I now realize that it's the reason why I didn't learn anything many times.  I'll leave it up to you whether to waste more of your time on me or not.

                                                                   

                                                                  1. I knew that much about it.  What I mean is, a WAV can contain DTS, it can be lossless, it can have a set bitrate, etc...  So, why is it so many things?  Like I asked the first time, uh, well, those are like different things, but like, is there a codec for it?  I mean like, why is itall WAV files?  It's different things and probably different codecs..  Lol, see?  Obviously it's still bugging me...

                                                                   

                                                                  3. Not sure what a descriptor is exactly nor how that would work o.0;;  LPCM seems to be the only thing like that...

                                                                   

                                                                  6. I think it is a trademarked audio scheme...  I hear it a lot.  It's usually used/mentioned for Blu-Ray stuff.

                                                                   

                                                                  7. Yeah, I thought it was CDA...  That's like a totally unrelated format to anything besides the stereo-CDs themselves right?

                                                                   

                                                                  8. AC3 5.1ch -> AAC 5.1ch is more lossy than say AC3 2ch -> MP3 2ch would be? The difference in sound is very noticeable?

                                                                   

                                                                  9. Dolby Digital audio is usually in the AC3 format and can be in WAV files as well?  Is that all?  Or are there other Dolby formats?

                                                                   

                                                                  * What did Neil mean by "65,536 possible equivalents for analogue voltage" and DAW?  In other words, what do those things mean? lol

                                                                    Maybe you can answer the stuff about the Gains - HybridGain, PreGain, and PostGain differently if you know what those are..

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks though, I really appreciate it.

                                                                  • 30. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                    I don't know WTH you're trying to prove.

                                                                     

                                                                    Nothing, really.  You ask questions about why something doesn't work or why it's difficult, and I tell you.  It's because often what you're trying to do is not the best way to do things.  If you stop doing those things, you won't have these issues.

                                                                     

                                                                    You're kind of like a patient who keeps going to his doctor and asking "Why am I having such a hard time breathing?"  Doc tells him "Because you smoke three packs of cigiarettes a day."  Well, just like the doctor would tell his patient to stop doing things that cause the problem, that's what I keep telling you.

                                                                     

                                                                    Of course, most smokers just don't want to hear the truth, and will keep on smoking.

                                                                    • 31. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                      Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                                      Ok..  That anaology was horrible this time..

                                                                       

                                                                      Again, I have no choice in the matter besides not doing what I want to do at all.  Instead of saying not to do that, tell me what to do instead.  I don't ask why it's difficult in the sense that you're thinking.  What I ask is how to get it working IF there is a way.  Using your previous analogy, the why I was asking here was, why is a house made out of AC3 material much easier to take apart than a house made out of DTS.  And it was more rhetorical than anything else...  Plus, the question was regarding all types of tools, not just Premiere.

                                                                      • 32. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                        Actually,

                                                                         

                                                                        I thought that Neil's post on the "how," was an excellent one. It covered what was needed and how to use these "tools." I learned something from your question and from his answer. I did not know if it was possible and certainly did not know the method to accomplish it. Big thanks to Neil, as always.

                                                                         

                                                                        Did you not find Neil's response to be useful? Did his method not work for you? I have not tried it, but will certainly keep it in the back of my mind, should I ever encounter a situation where I needed to "deconstruct" a DTS source file and use the pieces.

                                                                         

                                                                        Good luck,

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                        • 33. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                          1. I knew that much about it.  What I mean is, a WAV can contain DTS, it can be lossless, it can have a set bitrate, etc...  So, why is it so many things?  Like I asked the first time, uh, well, those are like different things, but like, is there a codec for it?  I mean like, why is itall WAV files?  It's different things and probably different codecs..  Lol, see?  Obviously it's still bugging me...

                                                                          A WAV file is, as it is, because that is how it was designed. Pretty much like an AVI file. It can be many things inside of it. What it actually is, will be based on all of the settings and CODEC's used by the creator of that file.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          3. Not sure what a descriptor is exactly nor how that would work o.0;;  LPCM seems to be the only thing like that...

                                                                          The "descriptor" is like a sub-title on a novel. It gives some more info for that title.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          6. I think it is a trademarked audio scheme...  I hear it a lot.  It's usually used/mentioned for Blu-Ray stuff.

                                                                          Yes, when "stuff" is invented, one often trademarks, copyrights, etc. that process. The actual process will depend on whether it is tangible, or theoretical, etc. Then, the inventor (or trademark holder, etc.) will license the use of it to others. The MainConcept MPEG CODEC is a good example. Adobe pays a licensing fee to use it. That is why it is not included in the trial version of PrPro - Adobe would have to pay for it, and may/may not sell the product. When you buy the full version, part of the price goes to MainConcept.

                                                                           

                                                                          7. Yeah, I thought it was CDA...  That's like a totally unrelated format to anything besides the stereo-CDs themselves right?

                                                                          CDA is rather like the above example of AVI. It's a wrapper, though one that the circuits on a CD player can "un-wrap" to get to the WAV file inside of it. One basically "un-wraps it" when they rip the CD. Think of it like the VOB on a DVD. Inside the VOB will be an MPEG-2 muxed AV file (plus a few other possible things).

                                                                           

                                                                          8. AC3 5.1ch -> AAC 5.1ch is more lossy than say AC3 2ch -> MP3 2ch would be? The difference in sound is very noticeable?

                                                                          I've never used the AAC format, but MP3 anything will be one of the MOST lossy conversions. MP3's are only good for non-critical listening, IMO.

                                                                           

                                                                          9. Dolby Digital audio is usually in the AC3 format and can be in WAV files as well?  Is that all?  Or are there other Dolby formats?

                                                                          DD Audio can be in several formats (using the DD CODEC's). AC3 is the most common one and is one of the "approved" DVD-Video formats. WMA is another possible wrapper for DD Audio, but is not as universal (in my world) as is AC3. WMA is a variation on WAV but often with some differences. These, again, are but wrappers. They do some identification, but can contain lots of different material. Basically, they tell software, or hardware where to start looking and what to expect to find inside. Think of them as a cypher sheet to break the code found within.

                                                                           

                                                                          Hunt

                                                                          • 34. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                            Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                                            It was helpful.  It looks like it should work fine though I haven't tried it yet.  The question was for a future project.  I'm still trying to deal with the one that won't render (which has before).

                                                                            • 35. Re: DTS Audio
                                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                              I’ve put together your "Summer reading list:"

                                                                               

                                                                              DVD Demystified, by Taylor, Johnson & Crawford, McGraw Hill, ISBN 0-07-142396-6

                                                                              Though it says "DVD" in the title, you will learn about every type of optical disc ever conceived, and what they were designed to do and how they do it. Discussions on file formats is quite deep. Long, but a must-read.

                                                                               

                                                                              5.1 Surround Sound, Up and Running, Holman, Focal Press, ISBN 0-240-80383-3

                                                                              Tomlinson Holman will take you completely through 5.1 Surround Sound, with the theories and also many practical discussions on implementation as well as different mixing philosophies. When it comes to Surround Sound, Holman is the master.

                                                                               

                                                                              An Introduction to Digital Audio, Watkinson, Focal Press, ISBN 0-240-51378-9

                                                                              Want to know all about digital audio? This is a great place to start.

                                                                               

                                                                              Basics of Video Sound, Lyver, Focal Press, ISBN 0-240-51561-7

                                                                              Have you ever wondered what the best recording practices were for audio to accompany video? This simple book breaks things down in easy to understand terms.

                                                                               

                                                                              The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Audition 2.0, Brown, Focal Press, ISBN 0-240-52018-1

                                                                              Though written for Adobe Audition 2.0, this book still has about 99% of what will be required for using Audition 3.0. Don’t own Adobe Audition? If you are on the PC, it is a must-have program for working with Audio.

                                                                               

                                                                              Pro Tools Surround Sound Mixing, Tozzoli, Backbeat Books, ISBN 0-87930-832-X

                                                                              OK, you’re on a Mac and want to mix Surround Sound. Where do you turn? First, get Pro Tools and then read this book.

                                                                               

                                                                              For everything else, there’s Neil Wilkes! [Grin]

                                                                               

                                                                              Enjoy,

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                                Typhoon859 Level 1

                                                                                1. I don't really know how else to ask but my confusion still remains.  Try to look at and answer the questions individualy. Uh..  You say it's like an AVI but AVI I would describe to you as awrapper which can contain DivX, XVID, or h264 streams with certain types of audio like MP3.  That's not what a WAV is...  That's why I'm not really getting it.

                                                                                 

                                                                                3. In escence, what you told me is that LPCM is something that gives more info on the audio..  I still have no idea waht specifically it is.

                                                                                 

                                                                                6. The info was interesting but, what format is being referred to when the term True-HD audio is used?  That's basically what my original question was.  Ummm, here: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

                                                                                Shoulda Googled in the first place..  So it's just 24-bit 96kHz 5.1 surround...  You know if there's anything else special about it?  Those specs don't necessarily mean much.

                                                                                 

                                                                                7. So .cda is just a wrapper that contains a WAV stream?  (which confuses me even more because WAV seems to be anything and everything at this point...)

                                                                                 

                                                                                8. Lossy formats aren't always bad... You've never used it so how could you say that it is?  You'd say the same thing about h264 right?  h264 is amazing...  It can almost reproduce the glorious quality of blu-ray high definition perfectly, especially if you know how to use AVISynth well.

                                                                                 

                                                                                * You don't know?

                                                                                • 37. Re: DTS Audio
                                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                  If your programs can wrap AAC around encoded 5.1 SS, then by all means use that. I happen to use AC3, as I am going to DVD-Video for the vast majority of my output. Encore (my authoring program) works perfectly with AC3 elemental streams, i.e. Audio-only files.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Good luck,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                  • 38. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                                    neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    the_wine_snob wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    7. Yeah, I thought it was CDA...  That's like a totally unrelated format to anything besides the stereo-CDs themselves right?

                                                                                    CDA is rather like the above example of AVI. It's a wrapper, though one that the circuits on a CD player can "un-wrap" to get to the WAV file inside of it. One basically "un-wraps it" when they rip the CD. Think of it like the VOB on a DVD. Inside the VOB will be an MPEG-2 muxed AV file (plus a few other possible things).

                                                                                    Sort of, although it has been explained differently to me. CD-DA (Compact Disc Digital Audio) is essentially 16-bit 44.1KHz PCM stereo audio file with a TOC (Table Of Contents) that tells the CD player what is on the disc & more importantly where it is on the disc so it can access it.

                                                                                    CDA, on the other hand, is a file format extension used by computers (.cda) that you will see if you look at a CD-DA disc in a PC-ROM drive.that will be 1Kb in size, and again is simply a shortcut to the file in the CD. CD-DA is a disc format, not a file format.

                                                                                     


                                                                                     

                                                                                    9. Dolby Digital audio is usually in the AC3 format and can be in WAV files as well?  Is that all?  Or are there other Dolby formats?

                                                                                    DD Audio can be in several formats (using the DD CODEC's). AC3 is the most common one and is one of the "approved" DVD-Video formats. WMA is another possible wrapper for DD Audio, but is not as universal (in my world) as is AC3. WMA is a variation on WAV but often with some differences. These, again, are but wrappers. They do some identification, but can contain lots of different material. Basically, they tell software, or hardware where to start looking and what to expect to find inside. Think of them as a cypher sheet to break the code found within.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                    Dolby Digital is always in the .ac3 format. The sole time it looks like something different is DoOlby Digital Wave format, which is essentially the AC3 version of a DTS-CD, with the discrete multiplexed surround mix encoded - as usual - to the AC3 standard, but again with a fudged header to make it look like a stereo audio file to a CD-DA creation tool. As with DTS-CD (aka DTS-WAV), this must be played back through a Dolby Digital Decoder or all you will get is noise. If you ripped such a disc, exactly as you woul;d see with DTS-WAV, you will see 2 solid blocks of what appears to be noise as the "waveform".

                                                                                    Dolby Digital cannot be "wrapped" in a WMA header either - that is another, completely different codec altogether. It also comes in 2 flavours (with variants, of course) of lossy & lossless with the lossy variant having both CBR & VBR options. The headers of these files tells the players what they are - and of course if they can play it or not depends entirely on the firmware, and what has been switched on in the machine as all DAC these days are generally capable of decoding all formats.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: DTS Audio♠
                                                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                                                      1. I don't really know how else to ask but my confusion still remains.  Try to look at and answer the questions individualy. Uh..  You say it's like an AVI but AVI I would describe to you as awrapper which can contain DivX, XVID, or h264 streams with certain types of audio like MP3.  That's not what a WAV is...  That's why I'm not really getting it.

                                                                                      WAV can contain digital information in a lot of different forms. These "forms" might not stand out, like Divx, for instance, but they can be quite different.

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      3. In escence, what you told me is that LPCM is something that gives more info on the audio..  I still have no idea waht specifically it is.

                                                                                      This would be a good subject to research in the "Summer reading list." You will find out more about it than you possibly wish to know.

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      6. The info was interesting but, what format is being referred to when the term True-HD audio is used?  That's basically what my original question was.  Ummm, here: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

                                                                                      Shoulda Googled in the first place..  So it's just 24-bit 96kHz 5.1 surround...  You know if there's anything else special about it?  Those specs don't necessarily mean much.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I haven't a clue. I've never read of it, or used it. That article will tell you more than I ever could, even if I make stuff up about it... [Grin]

                                                                                       

                                                                                      7. So .cda is just a wrapper that contains a WAV stream?  (which confuses me even more because WAV seems to be anything and everything at this point...)

                                                                                      Sorry for the confusion. Basically the CDA tells the software or the hardware what it will find, and how to process it. Again, it's like that cypher sheet to break the code. DVD Demystified, from the "Summer reading list," will give you the complete history and background with all of the specs.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      8. Lossy formats aren't always bad... You've never used it so how could you say that it is?  You'd say the same thing about h264 right?  h264 is amazing...  It can almost reproduce the glorious quality of blu-ray high definition perfectly, especially if you know how to use AVISynth well.

                                                                                      I do not understand. What do you mean by the comment, "You've never used it, so how could you say that it is?" I use lossy formats every day. What do you think that MPEG-2 is. Every DVD I produce uses it. I am totally lost here, and require your "cypher sheet." I also use MP3, though more often in one direction - from, as the majority of my SFX library is in that format. However, I do rip to my iPod and use files in both MP3 and M4P. I just prefer a WAV (much, much larger file) for listening. Heck, I still prefer my half-speed mastered LP's to most of the same material on even SACD. Maybe it's my audio system, or my hearing, but I like the vinyl better.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      * You don't know?

                                                                                      I never found the original asterix, so I do not know what this refers to specifically. However, in my case, it would be appropriate for oh so many things. That is my main reason for spending time in the fora - to learn the things that I do not know. A good example is the deconstruction/decompression of DTS files as source. I guessed that it could be done, but it took Neil to verify that it could be done, and then furnish us with the tools to do so, should we ever require it.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Do look over the list of books. If you only read one, make sure that it is DVD Demystified. You will not regret it.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Good luck, and good reading,

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                      1 2 Previous Next