28 Replies Latest reply on May 25, 2009 8:20 PM by Stan Jones

    time/date plug in needed - firewire capture

    nobody40

      We were using Turtle Beach software and hardware to capture video from our cameras...we record the time and date on the screen when we record and that hardware and software captured what was being played.

       

      Problem is that we decided to start to use the firewire for the capture and the capture feature in Premiere CS4 but it does not show the date and time on the frames.

       

      This morning I downloaded and bought DVMP Pro 3...but you have to capture the video then use their burn in feature to show the time and date...so it takes twice as long to do what Turtle Beach did.

       

      Is there a plug in for Premiere that will show the date and time from the video?

       

      We are using Windows XP Pro SP3, 1 TB HD & 4 gig memory...

       

      you can also e-mail me at msimpson@914studiogroup.com

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Another piece of software, that might give you what you want, and in a speedier fashion is DVDate. Though I've got it, I've never used it for this purpose. I am usually looking for runtime, though have found AE to be great for that - though PrPro does have a slightly scaled-down Runtime Effect. You still might be faced with the prospect of "doing things twice." Maybe there is a true "plug-in," but I have not found one.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
            nobody40 Level 1

            That program is another step...for that I will just use the other program...really looking for a plug in that does both or any program that does both.

            • 3. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
              Eddie Lotter Level 4

              Drop the timecode effect on the clip and set the timecode source to "media".

              See Timecode effect in the PPro Help for details.

              Cheers
              Eddie

              • 4. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                nobody40 Level 1

                I need it to show the time and date from the tape not the progress of the tape.

                 

                When you are taking video and you have the camera show the time and date on the screen...that is what I need to show.

                 

                 

                Michael Simpson

                • 5. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                  nobody40 Level 1

                  I just don't understand how I can record the date/time on the screen...see it when I use the video out...can capture it using the video out but not when you use the firewire.  It's streaming both ways isn't it?

                  • 6. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                    Harm Millaard Level 7
                    I just don't understand how I can record the date/time on the screen...

                     

                    You can't record the date/time. You can DISPLAY it on the screen of the camera. The date/time is recorded in the metadata and to display those use a utility like DV Date, as has been very accurately pointed out by Hunt in post #1.

                     

                    When do people start reading post #1, which often answers the question and keep prolonging a thread with useless to-and-fro's?

                    • 7. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                      nobody40 Level 1

                      I'm not being a pain here...my client is a PI and when they go on surveilance it has to show the date and time on the screen for the court.  When we use the video/audeo out on the camera, the yellow, red and white cable, we can capture when is on the camera screen...the video with the date and time on the screen.  But when we capture it using the firewire it does not show what is on the camera screen.  And yes I bought the DVMP Pro 3 yesterday...but you have to capture the video first then run their burn-in utility to show the date and time on the screen.

                       

                      To sum it up...again...we only want to do this is one step like we have been doing but use the firewire instead.

                       

                      I guess we shuld have stuck to what was working...but we upgraded to Premiere CS4 and wanted to capture the video right into the Premiere program and stop using the other hardware/software.  But one of the big problems was the we were using the Turtle Beach product that they no longer support so we didn't want to keep using it for fear of it stop working and we are stuck looking for a solution.

                      • 8. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Since others have weighed-in with a dearth of necessary plug-ins for a "one-stop" method, I'd guess that none here is familiar with such a plug-in, though one could very certainly exist - we just don't know of it.

                         

                        I understand why you do not want an additional step in the Capture/prep process. As you pointed out, it takes more time to process the files again.

                         

                        You do have one method, the TB card/bridge. Unfortunately, you may be faced with using it to Capture and process the metadata in its software, or adapting a slower, two-step process. [I use a TB card and software for VHS - digital capture, and do not even know if it will do what your version does, as I've never had a client, or Project, where I was doing forensic work. Not that I'll need it, but I need to check mine out, to see if it even offeres this function.]

                         

                        You might get more suggestions on some other fora, like Creative Cow. I think that it's that most here have not done that much forensic work, except for perhaps processing surveillance  camera footage, with the data/time stamp already imprinted. Doing that is as close to your Projects, as I have ever gotten.

                         

                        It's not that we misunderstand your needs, or that we don't wish to help you, but that so far, none of us knows of a way to meet your criteria. There was a poster to this forum, who did what you are doing, but I've not noticed any such posts in over a year.

                         

                        Good luck, and should you find a plug-in that works, please post of it in the thread, to help others in your position. Also, keep checking the thread, as people drop in less frequently, than many, who've replied - that one poster might have what you want.

                         

                        Hunt

                         

                        PS we get more requests for ways to "remove" the time/date stamp display from older VHS tapes and such.

                        • 9. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                          my client is a PI and when they go on surveilance it has to show the date and time on the screen for the court.

                           

                          In situations like that, courts will often require the timestamp be burned in, which means there's no way to turn it off or see the video without it.  Adding it after the fact won't cut it.  You have to set your camera up before hand so that the timestamp is actually recorded into the video signal.

                           

                          Now, maybe that doesn't apply in your jurisdiction.  I understand it will vary by locality.  But it might be a good idea not to tell anyone you haven't been doing it that way this whole time.

                          • 10. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                            nobody40 Level 1

                            Did you even read my posts?  We have it on all of our videos...the issue is that when you capture video using firewire it doesn't show the date and time on the captured screen on the computer...the date time is still showing on the video on the camera screen and if we capture it using the video out from the camera it show the date time.

                             

                            So what are you talking about that I shouldn't tell people what????  We have been in business for over 15 years now and have NEVER had a video questioned in court.  So please read my posts and offer a solution if you know one.

                            • 11. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                              We have it on all of our videos

                              But only when they are in-camera, right?  The date/time info you see in the camera is only a display of the metadata in the file.  It's not actually part of the video.  If the date/time was recorded onto tape with the video signal, then it would show up when capturing by firewire.

                              So please read my posts and offer a solution if you know one

                              He did.    Jim's suggestion was to set up your camera to record/burn-in the date/time data with the video signal.  I don't know if your camera has that capability or not.

                               

                              -Jeff

                              • 12. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                No other solutions than those offered already, AFAIK. If you don't like it, stick to the way you have been doing for the last 15 years.

                                • 13. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                  nobody40 Level 1

                                  Yes it's on the lcd screen...and when we use the video out to the computer it shows the date and time...just doesn't show it when we use the firewire.  So I take the same video...I hook it up to the turtle beach box and it captures date and time...but when we take the same video and capture it using the firewire it doesn't show the date and time.

                                   

                                   

                                  Michael Simpson

                                  • 14. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                    That is to be expected for all the reasons mentioned above.

                                    • 15. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                                      just doesn't show it when we use the firewire.

                                       

                                      That means it's not "burned in", which in many municipalities will negate the legal value of the video.  This is because it is possible for someone to alter the date/time stamp.  You could use an effect and put anything there you want.  This is why many courts require the information to be "burned in", which means there's just no way to see the video without the date/time stamp, even over Firewire.

                                      • 16. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                        nobody40 Level 1

                                        You can alter the date and time anytime on the camera before you take the video....but can't after the video is taken.  I don't know of a way to change the date time stamp on the tape after the video is taken...do you?  Yes you can put any date time on the video you want after you get it into your editing program...and can also change the video...that is why we present the video on dvd and also we are required to keep and present the original tape to the court upon request.

                                         

                                        I checked all of our cameras...where is there a feature to BURN IN the date time?

                                         

                                         

                                        Michael Simpson

                                        • 17. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Michael,

                                           

                                          The only solution that may work is to play the tape with date/time display on from the camera over analog connections to a Canopus ADVC box and use firewire out from the ADVC to capture. The ADVC converts the analog signal to digital.

                                          • 18. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8
                                            I don't know of a way to change the date time stamp on the tape after the video is taken...do you?

                                             

                                            In a manner of speaking, yes.

                                             

                                            Yes you can put any date time on the video you want after you get it into your editing program.

                                             

                                            That's how.  And it's that capability that causes many courts to require the timestamp be burned in.  Because once it's burned in, you can't ever take it out or change it.

                                            • 19. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              I checked all of our cameras...where is there a feature to BURN IN the date time?

                                               

                                              I couldn't say specifically for your cameras.  It's usually a menu setting that will vary by model.  It also may not possible on every model DV camera. (Which is one reason a lot of legal videographers are still using VHS camcorders, probably all of which had this feature as a button on the side of the camera.)

                                              • 20. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                nobody40 Level 1

                                                I understand that is how it's done...I asked how you can change it on a miniDV tape after the video is taken?  You made it sound like your courts would never accept our work because the date time stamp can be changed on the tape...I don't agree and like I said we have NEVER had any of our tapes questioned in court...if there was an issue don't you think the opposing attorney(s) would question it by now?

                                                 

                                                OK enough going back and forth with you...you don't have a solution for me so please stop posting on my question...I came here for help and you have not helped.

                                                • 22. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  You made it sound like your courts would never accept our work because the date time stamp can be changed on the tape.

                                                   

                                                  Sorry no.  What I'm trying to impress is that the courts in my locality would never take it because the timestamp is not burned into the video signal.  You can't change what's on the tape, but you can change what the viewer sees when it's done your way.  That's why some courts won't accept it.

                                                  • 23. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                    I came here for help and you have not helped.

                                                     

                                                    Well, that depends on how you look at it.  No, I can't give you what you're asking for.  But I have eliminated the need to ask for it by suggesting a new method of shooting, one that burns the timestamp into the signal so that it is always there.

                                                    • 24. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                      nobody40 Level 1

                                                      John get off my post...you can't help...if you have a solution then offer it...you claim to have a solution but don't give any details that I can use...knowing which camera you are talking about would help...not offering that information does not help.  You keep saying that what we do would not work where you live...man I don't care...we don't work in your area and I don't believe you are correct...if how we handle video was not valid then why have we not been thrown out in court?...NOT ONCE and we have handled many high dollar cases over the years.  So what we do is valid in the state of Florida...I don't care about where you live or any area that is not in our business area...why would I?  John do you just need to feel important by posting your option on MY post?  Please either help or STOP posting here.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks and have a great day...

                                                      • 25. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                        First of all, my name is Jim, not John.

                                                         

                                                        Second of all, I will post where I like, following only the moderators' admonitions.

                                                         

                                                        Third of all, I have helped.  It's just not the exact solution you came looking for.  But why not try and make use of an even better one by burning in the timestamp?

                                                         

                                                        Fourthly, I can't do all the work for you.  Check your camera's manual to find out how (or even if) you can set it up to burn in the timestamp.  If you can, problem solved.  If not, then you'll have to buy a new camera, keep doing things the same way, or run the clips through two passes.

                                                        • 26. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                          Jim,

                                                           

                                                          Apart from the legality, my solution in post 17 allows for burning in date/time stamps from the analog source and capture thru firewire all in one pass. The ADVC converts all that comes in over the analog port, including the date/time stamp, to DV so effectively it is now "burned" and unalterable on the captured material. This seems to me to be the best way for the OP to do it. I can't give an opinion on the legalities since I'm not a lawyer.

                                                          • 27. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                            nobody40 Level 1

                                                            Once again...JIM...the dvd and minidv tape(s) are offered as evidence and yes they do stand up in our court...I'm sure in your courts too but I'm not stating that since I don't know where you are.

                                                             

                                                            JIM stop being such a butt on my posting...what we are doing is legal and stands up in court...but wait that was not my question in MY post...you made it a question when trying to take over my post...man you must have a boring life if my problem is so important to you...no wait you have not helped me...so why are you reading this?

                                                             

                                                            The minidvs are coverted to dvd so the court can play them upon request...the minidvs are there to back up what they are seeing and have NEVER been asked to be played after the dvd was played.  Sorry if yours have come into question but we stand on our reputation...

                                                             

                                                            [Unnecessary personal comments deleted by forum host]

                                                             

                                                            I'm sorry that I called you JOHN in my other post but that just shows you how much of an impression you have left on me.

                                                            • 28. Re: time/date plug in needed - firewire capture
                                                              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Nobody, I've occasionally criticized posters who unnecessarily complicate requests.  But here, the "extra" information is important to responding to your question.  This is important, even if you disagree, since forum questions and answers are used by many visitors to the forums, and we all have a responsibility to avoid misleading users.

                                                               

                                                              Your presentation was initially confusing for me.  In the original post, you say, "...we record the time and date on the screen when we record and that hardware and software captured what was being played."  I assumed that you are saying that when you videorecord the material, the time and date stamp is displayed on your lcd screen, and is also recorded to tape.  When this is true, there will be no issue, as the same results will occur whether you capture as you did in the past, or by firewire to PPro.

                                                               

                                                              It is clear later in the discussion that you do not record time/date to tape as part of the video - as Jim pointed out.  Even if courts have not yet raised an issue of this, your presentation suggests that you may have incorrectly told the PI and the court that the timecode they see on the DVD is "burned in" or present in the original video itself.  While you are faithfully sending this information to the disk, it is possible to fake this.  (Capture the info without the time/date stamp, and use an editing method to superimpose a time/date of your choosing, then burn that to DVD.  More challenging, but also possible, is rerecording to tape with the new timecode set?)  It is not likely that a court will raise this issue - it will be the other side should the date/time have special significance.

                                                               

                                                              I'll also note that Harm's statement that you can't record the date/time is only correct for some cameras - as Jim suggests.  Example, it is possible on the PDX10 (which has a "record date" setting) but not the TRV22 (which only has an option - probably as you are using on your camera - to send the date/time information out the video out port).