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1. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Chris Cox May 27, 2009 6:07 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)You're talking about display correction - it has little or nothing to do with gamut mapping.
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2. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 6:24 PM (in response to Chris Cox)Sorry to disagree with a programmer. But no, Photoshop talks to the OS to know what the active monitor profile is and then Photoshop does the following gamut mapping:
[working color space => monitor color space].
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3. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Chris Cox May 27, 2009 6:27 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)That's not a gamut mapping, just a profile conversion - in this case a color conversion correcting for the display.
Gamut mapping is something much more essoteric, done when building a profile, or by hand when preparing a document for output.
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4. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 6:45 PM (in response to Chris Cox)[deleted because my e-mail reply was posted here twice ...]
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5. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 6:41 PM (in response to Chris Cox)Ok, it's a profile-2-profile conversion. But both profiles describe a color gamut. There is the color gamut of the working color space and the color gamut of the monitor (color space). So you are calculating which color in your working color space corresponds to which color in your monitor color space, i.e. you do a translation which is called gamut mapping, in this case the gamut mapping from the working color space to the monitor color space.
But if, as a Photoshop programmer, you say that the terms are incorrectly used, I'll be of course happy to call it whatever you want.
But let's leave aside the terminology, there is a serious bug that prevents this gamut mapping (profile2profile conversion?) under Windows under certain circumstances. See here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/438459?tstart=0
I was just starting a little poll here, to see how widespread this bug is.
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6. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Hudechrome-sd9sPI May 27, 2009 7:00 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)Why should I care?
Why is it a bug? Because Macs don't respond to the little utility?
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7. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 7:08 PM (in response to Hudechrome-sd9sPI)Hudechrome, what "utility" ? My OP says that Mac users are NOT concerned by this problem, so if you don't use Windows, don't bother with it.
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8. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Hudechrome-sd9sPI May 27, 2009 7:40 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)By utility, I mean the zip file. And no, I am not on a Mac. I ask the question because you frame it as a bug. AFAIK, I get superb color rendiditon from reality to print, si a killer bug is killing something for which I don't see a problem.
What is it?
BTW, I Googled Colorspin and I found references to toys and, apparently, quantum physics, alrhough I haven't followed that thread too far.Nothing that seems to connect to our little word. Kinda nice. Google hasn't discovered us....yet!
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9. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 7:40 PM (in response to Hudechrome-sd9sPI)Hudechrome, as I said in my OP, I'd like this to be a poll. If you want to post your results here, that's fine. If you don't understand the issue here, or want to comment, please go here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/438459?tstart=0 or start a new thread. Thank you.
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10. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Hudechrome-sd9sPI May 27, 2009 7:52 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)Are you a moderator?
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11. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 8:00 PM (in response to Chris Cox)Chris Cox wrote:
That's not a gamut mapping, just a profile conversion - in this case a color conversion correcting for the display.
Gamut mapping is something much more essoteric, done when building a profile, or by hand when preparing a document for output.
Chris, if you want to discuss the terminology, I've opened a new thread solely dedicated to this purpose:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/439047?tstart=0
I'd like to focus on the practical aspects here, i.e. is this a Windows bug or a Photoshop bug, are there a lot of users affected or is it quite rare, etc.
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12. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 8:06 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)OK, we have the first results:
Lou Dina wrote:
Yes, colors go weird and remapping takes place. [...] Sorry, I glossed over some of your posts and missed the intent of what you were trying to do.
I am using Photoshop CS2 on a WinXP Pro, SP3 system. I have two monitors hooked up to a Matrox Parhelia video card. Perhaps your hardware is the issue, or perhaps it is a CS3 or CS4 issue, though I haven't heard of this problem myself.
Lou
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13. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 8:15 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)And here are my own results:
MacBook Pro (dual boot)
on Photoshop CS 4Os X + internal display
okay
Win XP + internal display
bug
..
Dell Inspiron notebook
XP(SP2) + Photoshop CS3dual monitor set-up
okay
only external monitor
bug
only internal monitor
bug
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14. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 May 27, 2009 10:08 PM (in response to Christian Davideck)This is seriously confused.
It's all over the Color Management forum by now, where Lou Dina is doing his best to correct these monumental misunderstandings.
That quote above is misrepresenting and misleading.
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15. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 27, 2009 10:19 PM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)D Fosse wrote:
... to correct these monumental misunderstandings.That quote above is misrepresenting and misleading.
The quote above is from the very end of our conversation, and absolutely not misleading. I think the monumental misunderstandings are on your side.
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16. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 May 28, 2009 12:07 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)Colorspin is a toy that switches primaries. To elevate it to the status of a diagnostic tool is ridiculous.
What you're seeing in Mac vs. Win is probably the fact that Mac OS X assigns monitor RGB to untagged files (a point of some frustration to Mac users), while Windows does not. That alone tells me you have other color management problems.
And you still insist on calling profile conversion "gamut mapping". It's not. Gamut mapping is fitting high saturation colors into a smaller space that otherwise wouldn't accomodate them (resulting in clipping), or vice versa. It's completely separate from the conversion itself.
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17. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 12:39 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)For a terminology discussion, I'd *kindly* ask you to use the abovementioned terminology thread ( http://forums.adobe.com/message/1994384#1994384 ).
Until such time as the discussion there is settled, I will continue to use the term "gamut mapping" as defined by Norman Koren:
“An ICC profile provides data for the LUT loader program, which is run at startup; it also provides information for the gamut mapping between the working color space and the monitor color space.”
Just to help you understand D Fosse, this thread is NOT about embedded color profiles in images. I hope you see the difference vis-a-vis this thread.
Why don't you post your testing results here, then we can talk about it, D Fosse ? Hudechrome, you too.
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18. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 May 28, 2009 12:41 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)And whenever somebody comes along with trumpets annoncing they have discovered a Photoshop Bug, as if it was a new species of fish, my BS filter clicks to high alert.
Especially when it's working perfectly for everybody else.
I went along with your Smart Object scratch "bug", because I've heard of it before. But you'll notice I couldn't reproduce it. This one I flatly refuse to buy.
Edit: cross post. That doesn't change anything. As Ramón likes to say, I'm done here.
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19. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 12:44 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)I said it's either a Photoshop bug OR a Windows bug. Please read carefully. As for the smart object issues, there have been other people posting the same issues.
You still haven't posted your results here (Hudechrome neither). The test only takes 15 seconds. Are you afraid ?
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20. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 12:53 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)Why do you argue for hours and hours that all of this is nonsense, misleading, confused and a monumental misunderstanding ....
.... but don't have the guts to post your test results. It just takes 15 seconds. Set colorspin.icm as your monitor profile and tell us what your images in Photoshop lool like. Then we'll see "how perfectly it works for everybody else" (like you say).
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21. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 1:01 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)i fail to see the problem here, you are setting your monitor profile to a profile meant for special effects and you get what you ask for, weird colors.
Remember that programs do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do.
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22. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 1:10 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)thanks for coming here, Zeno Bokor. Could you please post your settings as mentioned in the starting post, i.e. OS + PS version, monitor (internal/external/dual) and whether your images have normal or inverted colors in PS ?
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23. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 1:14 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)of course i have inverted colors, that's the whole point of that profile, what were you expecting to get?
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24. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 1:24 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)Expecting ? Nothing. Just finding out if and how many people have this problem. From what you can read above, I can reproduce this issue on two machines.
Please post your OS + PS version and your monitor usage.
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25. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 1:44 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)Looking at that other thread of yours i'd say that your problem has to do with your color calibration device software and the way it loads your profiles, it has nothing to do with Photoshop
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26. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 May 28, 2009 2:34 AM (in response to Christian Davideck).... but don't have the guts to post your test results.
Because it's not a "test", goddammit!
As Zeno said, of course you get weird colors! But you don't on Mac OS X if your color settings are all screwed up. There's your test.
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27. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
D Fosse-QDEaQ1 May 28, 2009 3:23 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)To be more precise and end this:
OS X assigns monitor RGB to untagged files. Ergo: weird profile > normal result. The maccers are not happy about this.
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28. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Hudechrome-sd9sPI May 28, 2009 6:41 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)Christian, if you walked into my lab with this "thing" in a thumb drive, telling me what you have here, no explanation as to the nature of the utility, app, whatever and claimed it is a bug, I would tell you to go back and do the correct procedure for such a filing.
But wait! Meebe Christian is an instructor in software and is running a test, the skullduggery type that drive students nuts!
Bottom line is I won't run it, and certainly if I did, the first thing I would look for is a virus.
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29. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 7:15 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)Zeno Bokor wrote:
Looking at that other thread of yours i'd say that your problem has to do with your color calibration device software and the way it loads your profiles, it has nothing to do with Photoshop.
No, I load my monitor profiles manually via the OS.
Zeno Bokor, please post your OS + PS version and monitor monitor usage (internal/external/dual), and graphics card. Thank you.
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30. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 7:23 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)D Fosse wrote:
.... but don't have the guts to post your test results.
Because it's not a "test", goddammit!
No need to start cursing. Of course it's a test. You are testing if gamut mapping works. Just because it's a simple and very quick test doesn't mean it's not a test.
As Zeno said, of course you get weird colors! But you don't on Mac OS X if your color settings are all screwed up. There's your test.
It's not my fault if your color settings are all screwed up. Anyway, the test is regardless of your Photoshop's "color settings". Just make sure that you open an image and make sure it's displayed in normal colors (e.g. red apples).IT ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T MATTER WHAT COLOR PROFILE YOUR IMAGE HAS, as long as it shows up right this time.
AFTERWARDS, load colorspin.icm as your monitor profile. Tell us if the colors change or not.
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31. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 7:50 AM (in response to D Fosse-QDEaQ1)D Fosse wrote:
To be more precise and end this:
OS X assigns monitor RGB to untagged files. Ergo: weird profile > normal result. The maccers are not happy about this.
I never forced anybody to use untagged files. If your colorsettings are so screwed up, then just use a sRGB image to be on the safe side.
Besides, I explicitely stated, that Mac users don't need to post here unless they suffer from this bug (which I have never seen on a Mac so far).
Hudechrome wrote:
and certainly if I did, the first thing I would look for is a virus.
If you feel safter about it, you can also download the attached .txt file and rename it to .icm (extension for a color profile, hardly affected by a virus, especially when it's size is 474 bytes).
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ColorSpin.txt 474 bytes
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32. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 7:34 AM (in response to Hudechrome-sd9sPI)Hudechrome wrote:
... telling me what you have here, no explanation as to the nature of the utility, app, whatever and claimed it is a bug, ...
Errr ... Hudechrome, speaking of a "utility" or an "app" shows me that you didn't even bother to open the zip file. Inside there is no software but a 474 byte text file, called colorspin.icm (which is a color profile, if you have ever heard of that).
Hudechrome wrote:
and certainly if I did, the first thing I would look for is a virus.
If you are afraid of a 474 byte text file, than go ahead and scan it if you feel safer afterwards.
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33. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 7:44 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)Hudechrome, D Fosse, Zeno Bokor and everyone else ... I'd kindly ask you to post your results. You have been very strong in terms of accusations, etc, without bringing any facts on the table. But facts are what count! So please post your hardware configuration and results as described in the OP. Thank you.
It's a bit cheap to say it's all nonsense, but not to have the courage to post the result + your test environment to talk about it. It only takes 15 seconds. What are you afraid of ??
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34. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 8:53 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)you keep talking about a bug but you didn't even say what that bug is.... also, contrary to popular belief, using bolded blue type doesn't get you faster responses.
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35. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 9:06 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)Zeno Bokor. I have clearly stated that the bug manifests itself by preventing Photoshop to do the gamut mapping. If you look above, I explicitedly posted the scenarios in which I can reproduce the bug. I don't know what exactly causes the bug, only some suppositions.
That's why it would be very helpful if you could post your testing environment + outcome.
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36. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 9:12 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)I'm really not interested in the dispute everyone wants to stir up here. I'm interested in facts. Here are mine. Post yours! Or do you only want to argue ?
Christian Davideck wrote:
And here are my own results:
MacBook Pro (dual boot)
on Photoshop CS 4Os X + internal display
okay
Win XP + internal display
bug
..
Dell Inspiron notebook
XP(SP2) + Photoshop CS3dual monitor set-up
okay
only external monitor
bug
only internal monitor
bug
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37. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 9:25 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)I have clearly stated that the bug manifests itself by preventing Photoshop to do the gamut mapping.
english plz
Do you mean that when adding that wacky profile the color of the images stay normal?
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38. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Christian Davideck May 28, 2009 9:43 AM (in response to Zeno Bokor)Zeno Bokor wrote:
Do you mean that when adding that wacky profile ...You should not ADD that profile to your image, but set it as your monitor profile!! Don't confuse people here.
The OP clearly explains how to do the test.
Could you please post your results + test environment, then I'll discuss them with you.
facts!
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39. Re: [poll:] does your Photoshop suffer from gammut-mapping-killer-bug ?
Zeno Bokor May 28, 2009 9:50 AM (in response to Christian Davideck)vista+cs4, doesn't matter though, the problem has to do with all that one LUT for two displays stuff, it's not a Photoshop problem







