5 Replies Latest reply on May 28, 2009 7:10 AM by the_wine_snob

    DD 5.1 Surround Workflow to create TS file for Digital Cinema

    JabezP Level 1

      I need a little help.


      My objective is to create a test file for digital cinema. The client requires at the end a TS DD 5.1 mpeg HD file....


      I have tried creating the project in Premiere CS4, which is straight forward. The issue I have is in the export. I have been using the surcode plugin. The first question I have is in the routing of the channels. I can only seem to create a Premiere project with the layout of L,R,Ls,Rs,C,LSE where as the surcode only gives you the layout option of L,R,C,LSE,Ls,Rs, which I believe is the industry standard...so I have no idea if the plugin will read the channel allocation correctly.


      However, my bigger issue is that I'm not able to export a TS file from Premiere. There is an option to do so, but when I try that with the surcode plugin, the media encoder just crahses...


      I have been able to create a single 5.1 surround mpeg file from Premiere with the surcode plugin, but its of no use to the client..and I can't think of a way that would turn it into a TS file that would keep the 5.1 DD.


      I have many questions, and there are many things I don't understand...so if anybody is able help at all that would be wonderful.


      Many thanks

        • 1. Re: DD 5.1 Surround Workflow to create TS file for Digital Cinema
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          I have the feeling your client is misleading you. There is no TS file for 5.1 audio. What he probably means is that he wants to have the audio file in a TS directory, like you have on a DVD. There you have two directories, a VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS. Note that AUDIO_TS is only used for audio DVD's.


          When you export audio in 5.1 format with the Surcode plugin, you end up with an AC3 file. I'm not sure what your client wants. I suggest you ask him to be very explicit.

          • 2. Re: DD 5.1 Surround Workflow to create TS file for Digital Cinema
            JabezP Level 1

            Hmm. Thanks for that Marm, but I do think he is after an mpeg ts file. I have just created one as a test using Mpeg Streamclip and its definately a media file with a ts extention, which plays back in WMP, so it's not a VIDEO_TS directory...

            • 4. Re: DD 5.1 Surround Workflow to create TS file for Digital Cinema
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              What will be the playback medium of this file? How will you deliver the file? Will the client be playing the file on a computer, or on a Home Theater system? Does the client want, or need, a visual signal, as well, or it just the Audio signal that is important?



              The best delivery system that I can think of is to create your material in PrPro in a 5.1 SS Project. Unless the client is looking for just the Audio with no Video, handle the two as separate, in that once your mixing is done, you will Export the Audio as an MPEG file, in the AC3 format, with the DD 5.1 SS encoding from the Minnetonka Audio SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in. Export the visual material (Video) as a DV-AVI Type II elemental stream. Go to Encore, and Import the DV-AVI as a Timeline, then the AC3 as an Asset. From the Project Panel, drag the AC3 to the respective Timeline, and author a DVD. You can have menus for navigation, if needed, or just make the single Timeline your First Play, with no Menus. If you want it to Loop, set its End Action back to itself and it'll loop until the user hits Stop. Once the layout is as you wish, you have two choices:


              Burn to a DVD disc for delivery, or Burn to Folder. The former will get your 5.1 Audio (and Video) onto a common DVD for play on the computer or in a Home Theater system. The latter will yield the VIDEO_TS folder with the necessary files contained within this folder. The Audio & Video will be in a .VOB format, but will be in MPEG-2 form. Note: this will be a DVD-Video disc, and playable in any DVD player. Whether one hears the Audio in stereo, or in SS, will depend on the capabilities of their playback system. Because it IS a DVD-Video it MUST contain Video. Now, this could be anything you choose, from Titles with instruction, to Black Video (I'd create this for real, rather than rely of purely the systhetic Black Video from Premiere - more on this, if you need it), to abstract patterns of your design, or choosing.


              Now, if one needed just the pure MPEG-2 file, outside of the VIDEO-TS structure for playback on a computer only, you could take the .VOB and rename its extension .MPEG, instead of .VOB. Still, the playback channels would be solely dependent on the equipment the file was played on. The software player might figure into this, as well, because it must have the capability to process DD 5.1 SS signals. Check out any software player that your client will be using. If you deliver the DVD-Video disc, mentioned above, a DVD software player will be required. Most computers today come with one, and most of these are DD capable, but again, it depends on the hardware on the computer, and how it's configured, that will determine if one hears the Audio in stereo, or in DD 5.1 SS.


              Before I launched off doing anything, other than editing and mixing, I would ask some very specific questions. As Harm points out, there is no TS "file," but a TS "folder." This would be a red flag for me, indicating that the client might be confused, or know just a little and not quite get the full picture. This would dictate to me, that I need to ask some other questions and phrase them in a way that yielded useful info and instructions to me.


              1.) Exactly what equipment will you wish to play this material (don't start talking files yet)?

              2.) Is this equipment capable of playing Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound?


              From the answers to those two questions, you can then start filling in the blanks.


              If the client wants something to drop into a DVD player, hooked up to a DD 5.1 SS capable system, then you’re home free. If they want something that will play on a computer, Ask these questions:


              1.) What computer software will you use to play this material (still no mention of file)?

              2.) Is the computer equipped for DD 5.1 SS decoding and playback?


              These answers will direct you even more. If you get proper answers of, say CyberLink PowerDVD of #1 and "yes," for #2, go on to the next set of questions:


              1.) Can I deliver this material on a DVD-Video (the format and medium of commercial DVD’s)? Note: this will be a DVD that will play on a computer with proper software, or a Home Theater system, and will contain both Video and Audio. The client can turn the TV, or .computer’s monitor off, if they do not wish to view any Video signal, or you can create Black Video so there is nothing to see. With this delivery format, there has to be a Video stream, but it can be black.

              2.) Can I deliver this material on a Data DVD? Point out that a Data DVD will only play on a computer and not on a set-top player through the TV and a Home Theater’s Audio system. Some people do not know the difference, and you cannot trust your client to, unless you specifically ask them.


              If the answer to #1 is "no," and the answer to #2 is "yes," go on to the next question:


              If I deliver this material to you on a Datat DVD, will an MPEG-2 file with DD 5.1 SS be acceptable? If so, I'd still do the Burn to folder to get the .VOB and rename it to .MPEG. Test this file on your system. A .VOB can contain a lot of things, but yours was created with no Menu or other material, so it should be just the pure .MPEG-2 file. Still, test, before you deliver.


              Now, on the off chance that your client needs something like an SACD, or DVD-Audio, you will be shopping for software. Before you do, I’d post to the Adobe Encore forum and ask Neil Wilkes for his suggestions for the creation of DVD-Audio discs. Believe every word he types and follow his recommendations to the letter.


              Good luck, and if you need more detail, or other suggestions after you query your client, please ask,




              [Edit] I see that you also mention "HD." This will mean either a BD (Blu-ray Disc) for delivery, or a BD folder, Burned to a DVD-Video. If you will have HD Video material, your best going the full BD route. If you only will have Audio, the "HD" will not come into play. What exactly do you mean with the term "HD?" This can make a world of difference.


              [Edit 2] Sorry about the formatting in the second paragraph. I cannot seem to get it to display properly, though it looks perfect in the editing screen.

              • 5. Re: DD 5.1 Surround Workflow to create TS file for Digital Cinema
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Note: the term "Digital Cinema" gets used a lot. Look HERE and let us know exactly what part of this, or something else you are specifically talking about. That will help a lot.


                Good luck,