21 Replies Latest reply: Jun 2, 2009 7:09 PM by Jochem van Dieten RSS

    e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!

    Christian Davideck Community Member

      Dear Adobe team. e-mail replies more or less work now (apart from the still unfixed formatting issues).

       

      But ... sometimes there are considerable delays between the e-mail reply and the time that it's posted to your website. Sometimes 10-30 minutes. Of course, nobody can prove that it's Adobe servers not being able to catch up with all the e-mails. It might just as well have been delayed on it's way through "e-mail cyberspace" ...

       

      But I was writing mails to other people at the same time and they did reply back immediately ...

      ... still no proof of anything.

       

      Just saying that you might want to check your server load, etc., because it happens that users don't find their e-mail reply here on the forums and then double post via the web interface (only to see their message posted a second time via e-mail then) ....

        • 1. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
          Jochem van Dieten CommunityMVP

          Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-05-28 20:54:

          But ... sometimes there are considerable delays between the e-mail reply and the time that it's posted to your website. Sometimes 10-30 minutes. Of course, nobody can prove that it's Adobe servers not being able to catch up with all the e-mails. It might just as well have been delayed on it's way through "e-mail cyberspace" ...

           

          Those of us who run their own email servers can prove to the second

          accurately when the email was accepted by the Jive email servers.

           

          The issue with the variable delays in email processing has been noticed,

          proven and reported before. Adobe escalated it to Jive and Jive

          considers a variable delay to be functioning by design, as long as

          individual messages show up on the forum with 24 hours and there is no

          issue that affects all users.

           

          As long as there is no monitoring of the email system users are

          requested to report cases where email takes more then 24 hours or the

          issue appears to be systemic.

           

          Jochem

           

          --

          Jochem van Dieten

          http://jochem.vandieten.net/

          • 2. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
            Christian Davideck Community Member

            thanks for these insights.

             

            What a nonsense this response of Jive's...

            So as long as not all users are affected or messages are delivered

            within 24 hours, that's fine ....

            great!

            :rolleyes:

             

            So basically, this is not something either Adobe or Jive will work on,

            right ?

            Too annoying.

             

            Again, thanks for your explanation.

            • 3. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
              Bob_Peters Community Member

              Are the Jive Geniuses serious:  24 hrs? 

               

              This is the longest-running joke that isn't funny.

              • 4. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                Christian Davideck Community Member

                Adobe would have been way better off programming their own forum software.

                Consider what Adobe loses in terms of time, money and last but not least

                nerves by playing Chinese Whispers simultaneously with Jive and users here.

                 

                Are the Jive Geniuses serious:  24 hrs? 

                 

                This is the longest-running joke that isn't funny.

                >

                • 5. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                  S.D.A. Community Member

                  RSS feeds are worse than e-mail in terms of lateness. Makes RSS pretty useless for following a conversation in a reasonable time frame.

                  • 6. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                    kanguyen Adobe Employee

                    Thanks to Jochem for posting a reply on this.

                     

                    The 24 hour timeframe is not the desired performance we're looking for - it's more of an absolute worst-case scenario in a range provided to us by Jive based on what they've seen in the past. As you guys have mentioned previously, emails can get hung up at any point between A and B, which is why we have to accommodate some window of time for possible delays. That said, if you guys are seeing consistent delays across the board (something indicative of a system-wide phenomenon), by all means, please report them even if the delay looks to be anything more than 4-5 hours - as long as it's system-wide.

                    • 7. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                      Christian Davideck Community Member

                      Sorry for my ignorance, but isn't RSS up-to-date whenever you click on

                      "get messages" in your RSS reader ... ?

                       

                      RSS feeds are worse than e-mail in terms of lateness. Makes RSS pretty

                      useless for following a conversation in a reasonable time frame.

                       

                      • 8. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                        MichaelKazlow CommunityMVP

                        I use RSS feeds to monitor and reply to the forum (NetNewsWire on the Mac). The minimal automatic refresh time is 30 minutes and the feeds work well. Manual refreshes when needed work with no issue. I monitor too many forums to worry about conversations that take place more frequently. I barely get to work through my list when the refresh comes my way.

                        • 9. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                          Ansury Community Member

                          The issue with the variable delays in email processing has been noticed,

                          proven and reported before. Adobe escalated it to Jive and Jive

                          considers a variable delay to be functioning by design, as long as

                          individual messages show up on the forum with 24 hours and there is no

                          issue that affects all users.

                           

                          Wait, hold on here--

                           

                          Sure 24 hours obviously isn't Adobe's goal here but still... Jive actually said wait up to 24 hours??? ....AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

                           

                          24 hours!!! ahaha

                           

                          Oh, that's rich, I'm going to have some fun with this one.  I wonder if this post will show up now, or "WITHIN 24 HOURS".  lol

                           

                          So much for "working" forum software huh, I guess it's a subjective thing?

                           

                          So by their criteria, the forums "work" as long as:

                          1) Posted messages show up within 24 hours of their submission

                          2) Logins persist for 24 hours (or less)

                          3) Their support responds with a message basically saying "live with it", within 24 hours

                          4) The user interface responds to user input...within 24 hours

                           

                          Sounds great!

                           

                          Good thing Jive isn't in the medical field--a patient would come in with a nail in their head and they'd get a few Advil: "Give it 24 hours and let us know if it still hurts." lol

                          • 10. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                            Kath-H Community Member

                            You've met my doctor?

                            • 11. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                              Ansury Community Member

                              Kath-H wrote:

                               

                              You've met my doctor?

                               

                              Yes, I know Dr Jive. He's a mean bastage, too.

                              • 12. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                dave milbut Community Member

                                yea yea. we're talking about "universal" health care here too. i can't wait.

                                • 13. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                  S.D.A. Community Member

                                  Not necessarily. The Publisher sets how often they send updates, but some readers I suppose, can request updates sooner.

                                   

                                  I know Outlooks RSS reader has a feature were one can set their own interval or chose the Publishers default. I'm using Google Reader and this doesn't appear to be an option. It seems that Google in their wisdom, uses the Publishers default. I'm got a query in to Google to see about this.


                                  It helps to hear what others get in their readers; so thanks for the feedback. Gives me more ammunition when talking to Google.

                                  • 14. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                    Kath-H Community Member

                                    Back to time lag on email responses.

                                     

                                    From the Jive forums:

                                     

                                    How long does it take for a response to a comment to be logged and posted on the site if it is submitted by e-mail?

                                     

                                    May 29, 2009 3:50 PM  in response to: nnewcomer

                                    Re: Response posted from e-mail?

                                    By default, the email manager runs every 30 seconds to check the specified email account for new responses. Once a message is read from the email box to the application, it should be posted as a new message within seconds.

                                     

                                    This setting is configurable with the system property "checkmail.frequency"

                                    • 15. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                      Jochem van Dieten CommunityMVP

                                      Kath-H wrote on 2009-06-01 12:23:

                                      >> http://www.jivesoftware.com/jivespace/community/support?view=discussions&start=0

                                       

                                      >> By default, the email manager runs every 30 seconds to check the specified email account for new responses. Once a message is read from the email box to the application, it should be posted as a new message within seconds.

                                       

                                      Adobe uses the Advancedemail plugin, not the default email system.

                                       

                                      Jocem

                                       

                                       

                                      --

                                      Jochem van Dieten

                                      http://jochem.vandieten.net/

                                      • 16. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                        Christian Davideck Community Member

                                        Ansury wrote:

                                         

                                        Wait, hold on here--

                                         

                                         

                                        Sure 24 hours obviously isn't Adobe's goal here but still... Jive actually said wait up to 24 hours??? ....AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours. It has actually been 5 days and 1 hour!


                                        sent: 28 mai, 09:18

                                        returned back to sender: 2 June, 09:55

                                         

                                         

                                        This is the mail system at host mail.sgaur.hosted.jivesoftware.com.

                                        I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
                                        be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

                                        For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

                                        If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
                                        delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                                                           The mail system

                                        <clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com>: lost connection
                                            with 10.137.24.42[10.137.24.42] while sending end of data -- message may be
                                            sent more than once



                                        Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.sgaur.hosted.jivesoftware.com
                                        X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 109322408128
                                        X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; xxxx@...
                                        Arrival-Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 01:19:16 -0600 (MDT)

                                        Final-Recipient: rfc822; clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com
                                        Original-Recipient: rfc822;clearspace-669328960-406017-2-1994638@mail.forums.adobe.com
                                        Action: failed
                                        Status: 4.4.2
                                        Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; lost connection with 10.137.24.42[10.137.24.42]
                                            while sending end of data -- message may be sent more than once

                                         

                                        Message was edited by: kanguyen to remove email address

                                        • 17. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                          JayJhabrix Community Member

                                           

                                           

                                          Well, Jive sure is jivin' around... maybe it's time they learnt to Samba?

                                          • 19. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                            Jochem van Dieten CommunityMVP

                                            Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-02 13:55:

                                            I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification  after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours.

                                             

                                            Thank you for reporting. It has been added to one of the issues I

                                            reported as 'evidence'.

                                             

                                            Jochem

                                             

                                             

                                            --

                                            Jochem van Dieten

                                            http://jochem.vandieten.net/

                                            • 20. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                              Christian Davideck Community Member

                                              Thank you for your efforts.

                                              Just a personal comment: I would understand if an e-mail get's lost. But

                                              I don't really get why an e-mail would be returned to the user after a

                                              couple of days, instead of just posting it to the forum. I mean, the

                                              mere fact, that it's sent back indicates, that the Jive knows that there

                                              is an e-mail which has not been posted and also knows exactly which one

                                              it is (it is attached to the error message).

                                               

                                              I might be missing something, but ... well I don't understand that part.

                                               

                                               

                                              Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-02 13:55:
                                              I just received the following "undelivered mail" notification after ... guess what ... a lot more than 24 hours.

                                               

                                               

                                              Thank you for reporting. It has been added to one of the issues I

                                              reported as 'evidence'.

                                               

                                              Jochem

                                               

                                              </blockquote

                                              • 21. Re: e-mail replies ===>  time lag  !!
                                                Jochem van Dieten CommunityMVP

                                                Christian Davideck wrote on 2009-06-03 04:55:

                                                Thank you for your efforts.

                                                Just a personal comment: I would understand if an e-mail get's lost. But

                                                I don't really get why an e-mail would be returned to the user after a

                                                couple of days, instead of just posting it to the forum. I mean, the

                                                mere fact, that it's sent back indicates, that the Jive knows that there

                                                is an e-mail which has not been posted and also knows exactly which one

                                                it is (it is attached to the error message).

                                                 

                                                It is the way SMTP is designed. For the past 5 days the Jive email

                                                gateway has been trying to deliver it to the forums email

                                                implementation. But every time it tried, the forums email implementation

                                                failed (most likely ran into an exception or timeout). So after 5 days

                                                the email gateway has concluded that the forums email implementation is

                                                unable to accept the message and returns it to the sender.

                                                 

                                                Jochem

                                                 

                                                 

                                                --

                                                Jochem van Dieten

                                                http://jochem.vandieten.net/