1 2 Previous Next 45 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2009 1:56 AM by EchoMotionMedia

    4.1 Quirks...

    Eric Addison User Group Manager

      Okay, so in my brief time with 4.1 - all of an hour now, here's some things I've noticed.

       

      Create a DV 24P timeline, and drop some DV 24P AVI footage on the timeline - why is there a red render bar over it? It's been like this since CS4 was released - I thought they would have this fixed...guess not.

       

      Also, when viewing footage on an external monitor through my DSR-11, the CTI still jumps about 10 frames or so when you play back...

       

      Finally, when viewing on an external monitor, the program monitor image freezes up but plays back fine on the external monitor. This is really annoying - anyone else seeing this?

       

      But on the positive side - AVCHD footage is playing back great, projects are loading up faster, and everything else seems to be good. Although I did notice that so far, all the projects I've opened have to re-render any effects...

        • 1. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
          Curt Wrigley Level 4

          Eric Addison wrote:

           

          Okay, so in my brief time with 4.1 - all of an hour now, here's some things I've noticed.

           

          Create a DV 24P timeline, and drop some DV 24P AVI footage on the timeline - why is there a red render bar over it? It's been like this since CS4 was released - I thought they would have this fixed...guess not.

           

          Are you sure your footage is 24P?   Some cams have a 24p setting that records to 29.97 with pull down.  So the clips are actually 29.97 frame rates.

          • 2. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
            Eric Addison User Group Manager

            Well, yes - the footage was shot with a DVX-100B in the 24P mode, so it is 29.97 with pulldown. But it didn't do this in previous versions (CS3, PPro 2). If I remember correctly,  DV QT footage that's 23.976 (captured say from OnLocation) doesn't have the red bar - only DV AVI files...I'd have to double check that, but I seem to recall noticing that in CS4.

             

            That doesn't bother me as much as the external monitor issue - that's going to be annoying. I'd like to see it playing smoothly in both locations.

             

            EDIT - it does it for QT files too...

            • 3. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
              Curt Wrigley Level 4

              The external monitor; Im not experienceing that.  Im running through a DSR-25 for dv stuff whcih is very similar to your dsr-11.

              • 4. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                Eric Addison User Group Manager

                Curt Wrigley wrote:

                 

                The external monitor; Im not experienceing that.  Im running through a DSR-25 for dv stuff whcih is very similar to your dsr-11.

                 

                 

                That's discouraging...well, I'll check it on my laptop - see how it performs there. Hopefully, it's not something with my system or the update install.

                • 5. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                  Eric Addison User Group Manager

                  Doing it on my laptop too - plays back fine on the external monitor through the dsr-11, but the program monitor freezes...if I switch off the external monitor in the flyout menu, it plays back fine in the program monitor.

                   

                  Anyone else seeing this?

                  • 6. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                    Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                    Eric Addison wrote:

                     

                    Well, yes - the footage was shot with a DVX-100B in the 24P mode, so it is 29.97 with pulldown. But it didn't do this in previous versions (CS3, PPro 2). If I remember correctly,  DV QT footage that's 23.976 (captured say from OnLocation) doesn't have the red bar - only DV AVI files...I'd have to double check that, but I seem to recall noticing that in CS4.

                     

                    That doesn't bother me as much as the external monitor issue - that's going to be annoying. I'd like to see it playing smoothly in both locations.

                     

                    EDIT - it does it for QT files too...

                    This is technically 'as designed' - keep in mind that there are two types of pulldown available: 24PA and 24P.  The former will not require rendering;  the latter will (as the frames aren't all cleanly separate, so some field re-stitching is required for regular pulldown, hence it requires rendering).

                     

                    Cheers

                    • 7. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                      JBrown321 Level 1

                      I have the same issue. It is very very annoying and adobe definately needs to do something about this. I don't know if adobe thought that by turning off the program monitor it would speed up performance or if they don't even realize the problem exist. Adobe, if you are reading this, please take action to fix this issue.

                      • 8. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                        Eric Addison User Group Manager

                        Thanks, Wil - makes perfect sense.

                         

                        Good to hear from you - it's been awhile since you've posted in the forums...great job to you and the team on the 4.1 update!

                         

                        Anything you can advise on this monitor issue? Have you all noticed this?

                         

                        Thanks!

                        • 9. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                          Wil Renczes Adobe Employee

                          Hmm, yeah, I'm seeing it here as well.  It seems to have to do with whether you have the audio set to external playback versus desktop.  I'm assuming that it's something to do with ensuring A/V sync on playback.

                           

                          I don't recall a specific change in 4.1 around this - for all I know at the moment, it might very well have been working like this before.  I'll have to do some digging...

                          • 10. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                            JBrown321 Level 1

                             

                            Thanks for any help. Your expertise is surely appreciated!

                            • 11. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              Have you all noticed this?

                               

                              I've not had any playback issues going out through my DV camera.  Works fine with both 30i and 24p media.

                              • 12. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                <<<<>>>> Level 1

                                I have the same problem too! I have D1/DV PAL Widescreen project and I'm using Windows. Any help would be appreciated!

                                (My Premiere also shut down today several times after downloading new update)

                                • 13. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                  Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                  Jim -

                                   

                                  In the playback settings, switch the audio to desktop audio and try sending out picture to an external monitor - see if the program monitor in PPro freezes while playback is fine on the external monitor. Switching it to external audio device allows perfect playback on the program monitor.

                                  • 14. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                    joshtownsend Level 2

                                    So my 24pa problems are fixed but there are now 24p problems....damn......

                                    • 15. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                      Keith_Andrews

                                      Don't use 24p. SOLVED!

                                      • 16. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                        Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                        joshtownsend wrote:

                                         

                                        So my 24pa problems are fixed but there are now 24p problems....damn......

                                         

                                        I wouldn't say it's a problem...I'd say it's handling the footage as it probably should have all along. I haven't tested 24pa footage yet, but if it comes in a 24p timeline with no red render bar, then I'd say the workflow is fine. I think Wil's explaination makes total sense.

                                         

                                        Outside the monitor issue and not including AVC-I support, I'm very happy so far with 4.1 - they did a great job. I would have liked to seen the CTI jump when playing back footage with and ext. monitor fixed, but that can wait until next update - that one's not such a pain...

                                         

                                        The ability to edit from DVD...if I had a dollar for every time a client handed me a DVD to pull footage from...that feature will be used.

                                        • 17. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                          Keith_Andrews Level 1

                                          What sort of AVC-Intra support were you looking for?  There is a whole slew of AVC-Intra editing modes to choose from when you click on the General tab in the sequence creation window.

                                          • 18. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                            Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                            Keith_Andrews wrote:

                                             

                                            What sort of AVC-Intra support were you looking for?  There is a whole slew of AVC-Intra editing modes to choose from when you click on the General tab in the sequence creation window.

                                             

                                             

                                            You can choose one of those modes, but PPro doesn't see the footage when you import it in. Maybe they put that in there for when they release the AVC-Intra support(soon....hopefully!) they were showing at NAB.

                                             

                                            I know Wil can't comment on it, but I'd love to know if it's coming soon...

                                            • 19. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              switch the audio to desktop audio and try sending out picture to an external monitor - see if the program monitor in PPro freezes

                                               

                                              This how I normally do it.  It works fine.

                                              • 20. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                                JSS1138 wrote:

                                                 

                                                switch the audio to desktop audio and try sending out picture to an external monitor - see if the program monitor in PPro freezes

                                                 

                                                This how I normally do it.  It works fine.

                                                 

                                                Okay - just so we're clear (because others including Wil saw this), you're coming out firewire through a camera or deck to a monitor, and you've got the audio setting to "desktop audio" (in the playback settings) with video going out to an external monitor? Like I posted earlier, if I send the audio out the to monitor, the program monitor in PPro plays fine, but playing the audio through the computer sound system will freeze the program monitor image during playback.

                                                 

                                                Thanks for the input, Jim - I'd really like to know if this is something that I can resolve...

                                                • 21. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  you're coming out firewire through a camera to a monitor, and you've got the audio setting to "desktop audio" with video going out to an external monitor?

                                                   

                                                  Correct.  Works as it always has for me.  Smooth playback on both Program monitor and external monitor.  Works fine with both 30i and 24p media.

                                                  • 22. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                    joshtownsend Level 2

                                                    Both work for me also. no problem.

                                                    • 23. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                      Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                                      Really?

                                                       

                                                      Well, thanks for checking, Jim and Josh. Thankfully, Wil is seeing it too so I know it's not just something on my system (or the others who've reported it). I can't imagine what's causing it. Since I'm seeing it on 2 different systems, it makes think that it's a PPro issue...but then you never know.

                                                       

                                                      Wil, if you're still following this, can you let us know when you learn anything?

                                                       

                                                      Thanks again, gents!

                                                      • 24. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                        RDA972 Level 3

                                                        Eric

                                                         

                                                        Just out of curiosity, why would you want to send the picture out to an external monitor via a DV(CAM) deck while keeping desktop audio playback?

                                                        When I do that, the audio and video are out of sync and understandably so.

                                                        In addition to that, both the source and program monitors (depending on which one is being used) freeze, just as you reported.

                                                        Oddly enough, Premiere behaves differently on Jim's and Josh's machines.

                                                        For what it's worth, I am using Vista Ultimate 64 and an nvidia GTX 280 graphics card.

                                                        • 25. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                          Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                                          RDA972 wrote:

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Just out of curiosity, why would you want to send the picture out to an external monitor via a DV(CAM) deck while keeping desktop audio playback?

                                                          When I do that, the audio and video are out of sync and understandably so.

                                                           

                                                          In my current system configuration, the sound system hooked up to the computer is better then that coming from the monitor and seeing it in both places makes things easier some times. The sych issue isn't so bad that it throws me off.

                                                           

                                                          In addition to that, both the source and program monitors (depending on which one is being used) freeze, just as you reported.

                                                          Which is something it's never done previous to this update - or at least that I ever remember...

                                                           

                                                          Oddly enough, Premiere behaves differently on Jim's and Josh's machines.

                                                          I know - that is strange...they've got special machines! 

                                                          • 26. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                            It happens here too, with an Nvidia GTX 280.  I'm pretty sure Jim has an

                                                            ATI card, so if josh's video card is also an ATI, then we may have

                                                            discovered the source of the issue.  I've got the 182.50 Nvidia drivers,

                                                            so maybe even a driver update will fix this.

                                                             

                                                            That said, if Eric hadn't mentioned this, I probably would never have

                                                            noticed.  When I check my project for fit/color on an NTSC monitor, I

                                                            kill the Desktop display.  And when I'm using the Desktop display, I

                                                            kill the connection to my NTSC monitor.

                                                             

                                                            Is there a good reason to want to watch both at the same time?

                                                             

                                                            -Jeff

                                                            • 27. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                              Eric Addison User Group Manager

                                                              I've got Nvidia cards on both my machines - maybe that does have something to do with it...

                                                               

                                                              As for a good reason - I guess it would depend on your editing room configuration and the way you like to work.

                                                              • 28. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                JBrown321 Level 1

                                                                I have my computer hooked up to a JVC-DV3000 via firewire for monitor output. I have my settings on desktop audio, just like in release 4.0 and I had my firewire signal to my monitor and my desktop program monitor working and both in sync. Now with desktop audio selected I don't have a preview in my program monitor so something has changed. If I select external audio device, both program and firewire playback works but they are both out of sync.

                                                                It would not be that much of an issue if it were not for the sync issue. Something obviously has changed and it is weird for sure.

                                                                • 29. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                  You must have been one of the very few happy few, who managed to get firewire output and PC output in sync in previous version, because that is plain impossible, at least for normal people. Output over firewire is always slower than on the PC and has been for decade(s).

                                                                  • 30. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                    I'm pretty sure Jim has an ATI card

                                                                     

                                                                    Correct.  I use an X1650PRO.

                                                                    • 31. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                      Output over firewire is always slower than on the PC

                                                                       

                                                                      Mine's only off by a frame or two.  But I only use the external for color correction anyway, so sync there isn't critical.

                                                                      • 32. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                        JBrown321 Level 1

                                                                        Firewire is slower but something has changed because now I can't use my sound card and must depend on my deck to generate the audio if I want to see it on both monitors. Seems like the previouse version would sync the timing on the program monitor to that of the firewire output because they were both in perfect sync. The timeline indicator would be off a bit, but both monitores were perfectly in sync. I guess I will just have to live with it, but like I said before something for certain is different because you did not need to change to external device.

                                                                        • 33. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                          RDA972 Level 3

                                                                          I carried out the same test on my laptop which uses an ATI card and sadly, the program monitor freezes as well in the same circumstances. So the plot thickens even though Jeff might be onto something.

                                                                          I wonder what graphics card Josh uses though.

                                                                          Josh, step in please!

                                                                          • 34. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                            joshtownsend Level 2

                                                                            I'm here sorry, just woke up, head hurts.

                                                                             

                                                                            Right now in my editing comp I have a old nvidia 8600 gtx. I switched out my 9800 and put it in my other computer so I could play Far Cry 2 a few months ago. The 8600's been fine so haven't bothered yto switch it back. I'm also running the latest Win 7 64 driver dated May 3rd (checked yesterday..err Friday)

                                                                             

                                                                            I don't think that helps but I do plan on getting an Radeon 4870 soon.

                                                                            • 35. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                              joshtownsend Level 2

                                                                              My camera's not here (don't drink and drive with your camera) so I cant check the firewire again. When I checked it before I just hooked it and watched to see if I had a picture. Used to edit that way but don't anymore because I hate tape since going p2. If I shoot SD I still shoot P2 unless I'm just handing the tape off to be editied.

                                                                               

                                                                              I have an HD monitor as my second monitor and use that for fullscreen playback. I haven't had a problem with it and I've spent maybe 10 hours using CS4.1 since Friday.

                                                                               

                                                                              Does that help? I don't even have any mini-dv avi files on my harddrives right now. I use to use the hell out of a DVX100 but back then I edited with Vegas.

                                                                               

                                                                              Also I'm still on Win 7 64 don't forget. Haven't updated my Vista drive yet with 4.1 or the release version of SP2.

                                                                              • 36. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                                Keano66 Level 1

                                                                                Just to let you know Eric that I too have the situation with the external monitor playing whilst the programme monitor freezes.  I am using an Nvidea gforce 8600 GT graphics card. Strangley enough for me was the fact that when cs4 came out, the audio synch problem actually improved greatly between my pc and my external monitor (previous versions of PPro were quite noticeable).  It would be great if this issue was resolved as I tended to use both programme and external monitor (as a reference) at the same time. That said, the new 4.1 update is a big leap forward - am just waiting for the new AME to come up on the download page. Hey, maybe not having the new AME might be the cause? can anyone verify this?  Thanks to all.

                                                                                • 37. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                                  joshtownsend Level 2

                                                                                  One thing that sucks is when I have fullscreen playback I also forget to shut if while Prerendering making that screen black hiding everything underneath. Just a little gripe.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Be nice to have a fullscreen toggle switch somewhere also.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                                    tclark513 Level 3

                                                                                    I just upgraded to 4.1 and also have the playback monitor freeze problem when the playback audio is set to PC.  If I change it to external audio device the playback is normal again.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Frustrating.....

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I have a NVidia GeForce 6800 XT and upgraded the drivers to 185.85

                                                                                    • 39. Re: 4.1 Quirks...
                                                                                      tclark513 Level 3

                                                                                      Josh...What 24p problems are you having now?  Is it going to keep you from finishing your projects?

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