1 2 Previous Next 69 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2008 10:18 AM by Paevo Kelley

    CS4 details on Adobe website

    Level 7
      For anyone who's interested, details (inc pricing) of all CS4 products
      (Photoshop, DW, Fireworks etc) have been unveiled on Adobe's website:

      http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/

      Shipping dates have not yet been announced (presumably tomorrow).

      --
      Regards

      John Waller

        • 1. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
          Level 7
          > Shipping dates have not yet been announced (presumably tomorrow).

          You mean the dates will be announced tomorrow, right?

          --
          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
          Adobe Community Expert
          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
          ==================
          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
          ==================


          "John Waller" <johnw@REMOVETHISpinnacleweb.com.au> wrote in message
          news:gbaoo3$8fv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
          > For anyone who's interested, details (inc pricing) of all CS4 products
          > (Photoshop, DW, Fireworks etc) have been unveiled on Adobe's website:
          >
          > http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/
          >
          > Shipping dates have not yet been announced (presumably tomorrow).
          >
          > --
          > Regards
          >
          > John Waller

          • 2. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
            Level 7
            >> Shipping dates have not yet been announced (presumably tomorrow).
            >
            > You mean the dates will be announced tomorrow, right?

            Yes. Announcement of shipping dates will presumably be made tomorrow.

            Sorry for ambiguity.

            --
            Regards

            John Waller
            • 3. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
              Level 7
              John Waller wrote:
              > For anyone who's interested, details (inc pricing) of all CS4 products
              > (Photoshop, DW, Fireworks etc) have been unveiled on Adobe's website:
              >
              > http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/

              And for anyone interested in books about DW CS4, there are details of
              mine here:

              http://foundationphp.com/dwcs4/

              --
              David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
              Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
              Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
              http://foundationphp.com/
              • 4. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                Level 7

                "John Waller" <johnw@REMOVETHISpinnacleweb.com.au> wrote in message
                news:gbaoo3$8fv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                > For anyone who's interested, details (inc pricing) of all CS4 products
                > (Photoshop, DW, Fireworks etc) have been unveiled on Adobe's website:
                >
                > http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/
                >
                > Shipping dates have not yet been announced (presumably tomorrow).

                I believe Amazon leaked the actual release date last week accidentally when
                they posted info on ID CS4.


                • 5. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                  Level 7
                  Wow, $600 to upgrade for Web Premium! And looking at the "new" features!
                  Amaizing. . . simply amaizing! :-(


                  • 6. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                    Level 7
                    > Wow, $600 to upgrade for Web Premium!

                    Adobe is doing the same thing as last time by overcharging non-US buyers.

                    $600 = ¤ 407 euro. Adobe charges us ¤ 712 .

                    This time I will not oblige.

                    --
                    Regards,
                    Adriana.
                    [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                    www.spinsister.nl


                    • 7. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                      Level 7
                      A.Translator wrote:
                      >> Wow, $600 to upgrade for Web Premium!
                      >
                      > Adobe is doing the same thing as last time by overcharging non-US buyers.
                      >
                      > $600 = ¤ 407 euro. Adobe charges us ¤ 712 .
                      >
                      > This time I will not oblige.
                      >

                      Yeah, maybe the Fed is backing Adobe US as well as the banks.
                      • 8. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                        Level 7
                        Hi... isn't there a class action you could take? I mean, they piled onto
                        Microsoft... ok the reasons were different... but still... unless the price
                        difference includes local taxes, what's the justification? Shipping costs
                        will not account for that.

                        What if you buy online from Adobe? Then what's the price?

                        JJ


                        "A.Translator" <TranslatoriaDELETE@THISgmail.com> wrote in message
                        news:mn.bbd97d8907f6591c.33167@THISgmail.com...
                        >> Wow, $600 to upgrade for Web Premium!
                        >
                        > Adobe is doing the same thing as last time by overcharging non-US buyers.
                        >
                        > $600 = ¤ 407 euro. Adobe charges us ¤ 712 .
                        >
                        > This time I will not oblige.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Regards,
                        > Adriana.
                        > [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                        > www.spinsister.nl
                        >
                        >


                        • 9. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                          Level 7

                          > what's the justification?

                          You don't need justification when you are a monopoly.

                          -Darrel
                          • 10. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                            Level 7
                            Jay Jhabrix wrote:
                            > unless the price
                            > difference includes local taxes, what's the justification? Shipping costs
                            > will not account for that.

                            Even taking local tax (VAT) into account, the price is much higher
                            outside North America. The explanation given a year ago by Shantanu
                            Narayen, who is now CEO of Adobe, is that it costs Adobe more to do
                            business outside the USA.

                            > What if you buy online from Adobe? Then what's the price?

                            It's the same. You cannot buy from the US online store if you live
                            anywhere else in the world. In fact, if you buy a download version from
                            the Adobe store in the UK, it costs more than buying a boxed version.
                            The reason is because Adobe's server is in Ireland, which has a higher
                            VAT rate than the UK. Crazy, but true.

                            Adobe is not alone in charging higher prices in Europe. I have just
                            bought Microsoft Expression Web 2, which is roughly 50% more expensive
                            pre-tax in the UK than in the USA.

                            --
                            David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                            Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                            Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                            http://foundationphp.com/
                            • 11. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                              Level 7
                              "darrel" <notreal@notreal.com> wrote in message
                              news:gbbaq5$t8t$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                              >
                              >> what's the justification?
                              >
                              > You don't need justification when you are a monopoly.

                              I've not heard an explanation that I could plug into a spreadsheet and make
                              mathematical sense of, but I guess you have to give Adobe the benefit of the
                              doubt until they offer an explanation. I'm sure they must have one.

                              --
                              Al Sparber - PVII
                              http://www.projectseven.com
                              Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                              http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators


                              • 12. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                Level 7
                                > I've not heard an explanation that I could plug into a spreadsheet and make
                                > mathematical sense of, but I guess you have to give Adobe the benefit of the
                                > doubt until they offer an explanation. I'm sure they must have one.

                                I am sure they have one too. I am also sure it won't be fair. We have gone over
                                this with over 10.000 petioners when CS3 came out. See
                                http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html .
                                Adobe then promised that they would take the non-US market very seriously.
                                Well, obviously they do. But not as seriously as I'd like.

                                At the time the request was not to have a friend buy it for you in the States,
                                the idea being that Adobe could say: US sales are up, Rest of The World is
                                down, so (so?) we'll have to charge RoftW more.

                                I for one am not buying. Not for non-Us prices anyway.

                                --
                                Regards,
                                Adriana.
                                [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                                www.spinsister.nl


                                • 13. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                  Bruce BFD Level 1
                                  Maybe it's just me, but I was a bit underwhelmed....
                                  • 14. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                    Level 7
                                    Bruce BFD wrote:
                                    > Maybe it's just me, but I was a bit underwhelmed....

                                    By the price or the software? :-D

                                    --
                                    chin chin
                                    Sinclair
                                    • 15. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                      Bruce BFD Level 1
                                      I really didn't see anything that would motivate me to upgrade, and I use the entire MC. Does anyone have any thoughts as to how this upgrade is justified (benefit vs. costs)?
                                      • 16. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                        Level 7
                                        A.Translator wrote:

                                        > I for one am not buying. Not for non-Us prices anyway.
                                        >

                                        I'm with you Adriana - I could fly to NY, have a night or two and buy a
                                        copy - I really don't see the justification for it - If a hardware
                                        company put out faulty goods - they'd replace them free of charge -
                                        Adobe seem to put out faulty goods - don't fix them from what I can
                                        gather, no patches for known issues in CS3 - then release CS4 - expect
                                        you to pay way, way too much for what is in effect, in my view,
                                        something they should have released as an UPDATE.

                                        --
                                        chin chin
                                        Sinclair
                                        • 17. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                          Level 7
                                          "David Powers" wrote:

                                          > Even taking local tax (VAT) into account, the price is much higher outside
                                          > North America. The explanation given a year ago by Shantanu Narayen, who
                                          > is now CEO of Adobe, is that it costs Adobe more to do business outside
                                          > the USA.

                                          He's talking nonsense... have it as a download at US prices (+local tax)?
                                          And forget the Irish servers...

                                          Could it be that the rest of the word sales are higher than the US?

                                          I think MS XP cost about the same everywhere... give or take a few depending
                                          on currency variables and local taxes.

                                          I don't see CorelDraw having such a marked difference... nor hardware...

                                          I can understand a magazine... I subscribe to Computer Arts from the UK...
                                          and there's virtually no discount on the stand price for Rest of the
                                          World... subscription would be too low to justify bulk savings in
                                          shipping... but Adobe... and it's not reams of paper?

                                          They're liars and thieves... i can understand regional language versions
                                          costing more but English???



                                          • 18. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                            Level 7

                                            "djinn" <scobies@dsl.pipexYerKitAff.com> wrote in message
                                            news:gbbctk$2em$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            > Bruce BFD wrote:
                                            >> Maybe it's just me, but I was a bit underwhelmed....
                                            >
                                            > By the price or the software? :-D

                                            Judging from context: he was a bit underwhelmed by the "CS4 details on Adobe
                                            website". :-D


                                            --
                                            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            --

                                            • 19. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                              Level 7
                                              P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:

                                              >
                                              > Judging from context: he was a bit underwhelmed by the "CS4 details on
                                              > Adobe website". :-D
                                              >

                                              Well I wondered if he'd bucked the global economic crisis and was
                                              'underwhelmed' by Adobe's pricing policy :-P


                                              --
                                              chin chin
                                              Sinclair
                                              • 20. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                Level 7

                                                "John Waller" <johnw@REMOVETHISpinnacleweb.com.au> wrote in message
                                                news:gbaoo3

                                                > Shipping dates have not yet been announced ...

                                                From the Adobe site: "English language version is expected to ship by late
                                                October 2008."

                                                https://store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/index.cfm?store=OLS-US&view=ols_prod&category=/Appl ications/Dreamweaver&distributionMethod=FULL&nr=0&pid=2714351


                                                --
                                                Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                --

                                                • 21. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                  Bruce BFD Level 1
                                                  Since I'm in the US, I'm not too concerned with the global pricing polices (no offense intended). However, from what I've read on Adobe's site, the upgrade features don't really motivate me to spend $600 from WPCS3 to WPCS4. It looks like most of the features are simply "enhancements". Just how much of an enhancement is each one, and how specifically will they make my life easier to justify that much cash?

                                                  I use MC at work and WP at home. I'm having trouble putting together a cohesive argument for my boss to pay for the upgrade, and even less for upgrading my home system. I'm branching into video editing and print at home, so I'd have to upgrade to MC and the thought of paying $1600 for the features that I could have upgraded under CS3 for much less makes me less than enthusiastic.
                                                  • 22. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                    Level 7
                                                    Bruce BFD wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I use MC at work and WP at home. I'm having trouble putting together a
                                                    > cohesive argument for my boss to pay for the upgrade, and even less for
                                                    > upgrading my home system. I'm branching into video editing and print at home,
                                                    > so I'd have to upgrade to MC and the thought of paying $1600 for the features
                                                    > that I could have upgraded under CS3 for much less makes me less than
                                                    > enthusiastic.
                                                    >

                                                    What do MC and WP stand for?

                                                    To me, CS5 sounds like a bigger ripoff than CS4. Which isn't to say I
                                                    don't appreciate CS4 - in the IT arena, it's probably the best thing
                                                    that ever happened to me next to switching to a Mac. If Adobe is a
                                                    pseudo-monopoly, it at least deserves credit for producing quality
                                                    software, a far cry from Microsoft.

                                                    Still, the price tag is pretty steep for non-professionals - and I feel
                                                    bad about the way they keep sticking it to Europeans.

                                                    It's amazing that they're maintaining their high prices even as the
                                                    economy is spiraling out of control. I can't help but wonder if perhaps
                                                    they've gone a little too far. Adobe's pricing strategy is only fueling
                                                    a growing resentment, associating Adobe with the dreaded term
                                                    "monopoly," not good for public relations. I can only assume it's
                                                    fueling the competition, as well.

                                                    Then again, it's possible that Adobe sees this as its last opportunity
                                                    to make a killing. An economic slump will almost certainly impact their
                                                    profits, and it could just be a matter of time before the competition
                                                    begins to look a little more credible.

                                                    Another interesting thing - when I read about Dreamweaver CS4 a few
                                                    weeks/months ago, it sounded awesome. It was described as a truly
                                                    radical upgrade. But the articles I read today don't sound that exciting
                                                    - or am I missing something?

                                                    It also irks me that Adobe is making CS4 64-bit for Windows but not
                                                    Apple...even though I don't understand the significance. 64-bit programs
                                                    simply process faster, right?

                                                    In somewhat related news, the netbook revolution is nicely coordinated
                                                    with the economic crisis to exert enormous pressure on hardware vendors
                                                    to lower prices. With people buying mini laptops for under $500, they
                                                    may be even more reluctant to spend five times that much on a software
                                                    suite (even if that suite can't be run on a netbook).

                                                    Anyway, there are lots of things happening out there. If the Dreamweaver
                                                    upgrade is respectable, I might upgrade that program alone. But I'm
                                                    thinking of skipping CS4 and waiting for CS5, which I suspect will be
                                                    significantly better thatn CS4 and less expensive at the same time.

                                                    In fact, it might be kind of pointless for me to upgrade when I haven't
                                                    even learned to use CS4 yet. I'm pretty comfortable with Dreamweaver and
                                                    Photoshop, which I've used for years, but it's going to take a while to
                                                    learn Illustrator, Fireworks and Flash.

                                                    I wish there were more than 24 hours in a day! :)

                                                    --
                                                    David Blomstrom: PolITics Expert
                                                    Bill Gates: A Critical Biography -
                                                    http://knol.google.com/k/david-blomstrom/bill-gates/1i6e04re3w2kp/4#
                                                    • 23. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                      Level 7
                                                      > What do MC and WP stand for?

                                                      Master Collection and Web Premium.


                                                      --
                                                      Regards

                                                      John Waller
                                                      • 24. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                        Level 7
                                                        > From the Adobe site: "English language version is expected to ship by late
                                                        > October 2008."

                                                        Thanks Patty. Shipping 4-5 weeks after product announcement is what I
                                                        anticipated.

                                                        I guess precise dates are still under wraps judging by the existence of this
                                                        form:

                                                        "Complete the following fields to be notified by e-mail when Adobe® Creative
                                                        Suite® 4 products and trials are available."
                                                        http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=cs4_notify&loc=en_us

                                                        --
                                                        Regards

                                                        John Waller

                                                        • 25. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                          Level 7
                                                          John Waller wrote:
                                                          >> What do MC and WP stand for?
                                                          >
                                                          > Master Collection and Web Premium.
                                                          >
                                                          >

                                                          I see. Thanks.
                                                          • 26. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                            Level 7
                                                            Here is a thought about the price.... maybe (and this is just a wild
                                                            stab in the dark) they are trying to price beginners/amateurs out so
                                                            that only professionals buy it?

                                                            Dooza
                                                            • 27. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                              Level 7
                                                              Bruce BFD wrote:
                                                              > It looks
                                                              > like most of the features are simply "enhancements". Just how much of an
                                                              > enhancement is each one, and how specifically will they make my life easier to
                                                              > justify that much cash?

                                                              I can only speak about Dreamweaver. I believe CS4 to be the most
                                                              significant release since MX in 2002. If you work with external files,
                                                              such as style sheets and JavaScript files, the Related Files feature and
                                                              Live view will greatly increase your productivity.

                                                              However, different people have different needs and workflows. What one
                                                              person regards as a killer feature might be of little or no interest to
                                                              another. I assume Adobe will continue its policy of allowing you to try
                                                              the software free for 30 days. When the trial versions are released,
                                                              download them and test them thoroughly. Only you can decide whether the
                                                              upgrade is worth it to you.

                                                              --
                                                              David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                                              Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                                              Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                                              http://foundationphp.com/
                                                              • 28. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                Level 7
                                                                "David Powers" <david@example.com> wrote in message
                                                                news:gbd4uf$73b$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                > I can only speak about Dreamweaver. I believe CS4 to be the most
                                                                > significant release since MX in 2002. If you work with external files,
                                                                > such as style sheets and JavaScript files, the Related Files feature and
                                                                > Live view will greatly increase your productivity.

                                                                Really?

                                                                --
                                                                Al Sparber - PVII
                                                                http://www.projectseven.com
                                                                Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                                http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators





                                                                • 29. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                  Level 7
                                                                  It certainly helps my workflow.

                                                                  --
                                                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                  ==================
                                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                  ==================


                                                                  "Al Sparber - PVII" <pviiteam@projectSPAseven.com> wrote in message
                                                                  news:gbdc6p$fov$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  > "David Powers" <david@example.com> wrote in message
                                                                  > news:gbd4uf$73b$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                  >> I can only speak about Dreamweaver. I believe CS4 to be the most
                                                                  >> significant release since MX in 2002. If you work with external files,
                                                                  >> such as style sheets and JavaScript files, the Related Files feature and
                                                                  >> Live view will greatly increase your productivity.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Really?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > --
                                                                  > Al Sparber - PVII
                                                                  > http://www.projectseven.com
                                                                  > Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                                  > http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >
                                                                  >

                                                                  • 30. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                    Level 7

                                                                    "Dooza" <doozadooza@gmail.com> wrote in message
                                                                    news:gbcs3u$ohn$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                    > Here is a thought about the price.... maybe (and this is just a wild stab
                                                                    > in the dark) they are trying to price beginners/amateurs out so that only
                                                                    > professionals buy it?

                                                                    I can't think of why. It's always seemed to be the opposite, that they've
                                                                    stretched to include both of the far ends of that scale..


                                                                    --
                                                                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                    --

                                                                    • 31. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                      Level 7
                                                                      > so that only professionals buy it?
                                                                      Why on earth would they want to do that?

                                                                      --
                                                                      Regards,
                                                                      Adriana.
                                                                      [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ]
                                                                      www.spinsister.nl


                                                                      • 32. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                        Level 7
                                                                        It doesn't help mine, which is fine by me, but does seem to require that
                                                                        David's assertion needed a bit of a qualifier - even if I'm the only person
                                                                        in the world whose workflow is not made better by Dreamweaver 10.

                                                                        --
                                                                        Al Sparber - PVII
                                                                        http://www.projectseven.com
                                                                        Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                                        http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




                                                                        "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                                                        news:gbdcsk$gk4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                        > It certainly helps my workflow.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > --
                                                                        > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                                                        > Adobe Community Expert
                                                                        > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                                                        > ==================
                                                                        > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                        > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                                                        > ==================
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > "Al Sparber - PVII" <pviiteam@projectSPAseven.com> wrote in message
                                                                        > news:gbdc6p$fov$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                        >> "David Powers" <david@example.com> wrote in message
                                                                        >> news:gbd4uf$73b$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                        >>> I can only speak about Dreamweaver. I believe CS4 to be the most
                                                                        >>> significant release since MX in 2002. If you work with external files,
                                                                        >>> such as style sheets and JavaScript files, the Related Files feature and
                                                                        >>> Live view will greatly increase your productivity.
                                                                        >>
                                                                        >> Really?

                                                                        • 33. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                          Level 7
                                                                          P@tty Ayers ~ACE wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > "Dooza" <doozadooza@gmail.com> wrote in message
                                                                          > news:gbcs3u$ohn$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                          >> Here is a thought about the price.... maybe (and this is just a wild
                                                                          >> stab in the dark) they are trying to price beginners/amateurs out so
                                                                          >> that only professionals buy it?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I can't think of why. It's always seemed to be the opposite, that
                                                                          > they've stretched to include both of the far ends of that scale..

                                                                          Its certainly true that they market the products to anyone who can use a
                                                                          computer, and make them think they can be a professional web designer
                                                                          just by using software as a WYSIWYG editor... but the pricing doesn't
                                                                          reflect that.

                                                                          Dooza
                                                                          • 34. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                            Level 7
                                                                            A.Translator wrote:
                                                                            >> so that only professionals buy it?
                                                                            > Why on earth would they want to do that?

                                                                            Dunno, was just a wild thought that entered my head.

                                                                            Dooza
                                                                            • 35. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                              Level 7
                                                                              Al Sparber - PVII wrote:
                                                                              > It doesn't help mine, which is fine by me, but does seem to require that
                                                                              > David's assertion needed a bit of a qualifier - even if I'm the only
                                                                              > person in the world whose workflow is not made better by Dreamweaver 10.

                                                                              Read the first beginning of my second paragraph: "However, different
                                                                              people have different needs and workflows. What one person regards as a
                                                                              killer feature might be of little or no interest to another."

                                                                              --
                                                                              David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                                                              Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                                                              Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                                                              http://foundationphp.com/
                                                                              • 36. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                                Paevo Kelley Level 2
                                                                                Until they upgrade DW significantly to greatly facilitate PHP implementation, I really don't see the point... Meanwhile my Photoshop and Illustrator CS2 work just fine on Vista, thank you very much...
                                                                                • 37. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                                  Level 7
                                                                                  "David Powers" <david@example.com> wrote in message
                                                                                  news:gbdjkb$oih$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                                                  > Al Sparber - PVII wrote:
                                                                                  >> It doesn't help mine, which is fine by me, but does seem to require that
                                                                                  >> David's assertion needed a bit of a qualifier - even if I'm the only
                                                                                  >> person in the world whose workflow is not made better by Dreamweaver 10.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Read the first beginning of my second paragraph: "However, different
                                                                                  > people have different needs and workflows. What one person regards as a
                                                                                  > killer feature might be of little or no interest to another."

                                                                                  Your first and second paragraphs contradicted each other - in terms of the
                                                                                  cascade, the second would seem to have counteracted the first, which was the
                                                                                  essence of my point :-)


                                                                                  --
                                                                                  Al Sparber - PVII
                                                                                  http://www.projectseven.com
                                                                                  Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
                                                                                  http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators


                                                                                  • 38. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                                    Level 7

                                                                                    "Al Sparber - PVII" <pviiteam@projectSPAseven.com> wrote in message
                                                                                    news:gbdp2n$2d1$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                                                                                    > Your first and second paragraphs contradicted each other - in terms of the
                                                                                    > cascade, the second would seem to have counteracted the first...

                                                                                    I understand that in the military, the cascade principle applies in that
                                                                                    way. :-)


                                                                                    --
                                                                                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                                                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                                                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                                                    --

                                                                                    • 39. Re: CS4 details on Adobe website
                                                                                      Level 7
                                                                                      Al Sparber - PVII wrote:
                                                                                      > Your first and second paragraphs contradicted each other - in terms of
                                                                                      > the cascade, the second would seem to have counteracted the first, which
                                                                                      > was the essence of my point :-)

                                                                                      I disagree. I prefaced my original statement with a conditional clause,
                                                                                      "If you work with external files, such as style sheets and JavaScript
                                                                                      files..."

                                                                                      Perhaps, I should have added, "... and your name's not Al Sparber..." ;-)

                                                                                      For some reason, you don't seem to like what you've seen of CS4. That's
                                                                                      fair enough. Different people have different requirements and
                                                                                      expectations. I know that a lot of people who use Dreamweaver for PHP
                                                                                      and ASP won't like the lack of new features for server-side
                                                                                      technologies. Others will find other reasons for not wanting to upgrade.
                                                                                      That's why I suggest that anyone who has any doubts should wait until
                                                                                      the trial versions become available. Try it. If you like it, buy it; if
                                                                                      you don't like it, don't bother.

                                                                                      However, when people ask me what I think of CS4, my honest opinion is
                                                                                      that I find it to be the most significant release since MX in 2002.
                                                                                      That's not simply because I want to sell books (although, of course, I
                                                                                      want to do that as well), but because I actually believe it.

                                                                                      Yes, there are things that I don't like about CS4, as well. Although the
                                                                                      Property inspector handles CSS better than before, it still doesn't
                                                                                      feel quite right. And the decision to embed WebKit seems to have
                                                                                      resulted in some degradation in the way that Design view renders CSS.
                                                                                      And the way that JavaScript is indented is very odd at times. On
                                                                                      balance, though, I like it.

                                                                                      --
                                                                                      David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
                                                                                      Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
                                                                                      Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
                                                                                      http://foundationphp.com/
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