9 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2009 2:37 AM by BigJohnD

    Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?

    Roger3

      Hello all,

       

      I am using PageMaker 7.  I have made a graphic file (TIFF) which has a background RGB color of full red (255, 0, 0).  I have placed it into a PageMaker document.  To increase the background area around the graphic with an identical red background that will cover the entire page, I added a large box shape and filled it with PageMaker's RGB color red (also 255, 0, 0).

      So far so good - in PageMaker both colors look identical on my laptop screen, and look identical to the original color in the graphic file.  you can't tell where the graphic file and the large background box behind it are meeting.  However, on converting the PM document to a PDF file, the PageMaker red color looks distinctly darker on the screen than the red in the graphic file, when viewed in the PDF file.  I have tried lightening the PageMaker red in various ways by altering the RGB settings, but still cannot get an identical match of reds in the PDF file.  I don't wish to darken the red color in the graphic file.

       

      The only solution I can think of is to go back to the graphic file and increase its area so that its red color will fill the entire page when placed into PageMaker.

       

      Is there another way?

       

      Thanks,

       

      Roger3

        • 1. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
          Level 4

          are you making a CMYK PDF?

           

          RGB is a bigger color space than CMYK. so when you convert from RGB to CMYK the colors lose their brightness.

          • 2. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
            Roger3 Level 1

            Hi,

            Thanks for your reply.  No, I haven't converted any color images from RGB to CYMK.  The original graphic file was made as RGB.  The colored box in PM7 is set to the Color Options of:

            Type: Spot

            Model: RGB

            (R 255, G 0, B 0)

            As said, in PM7 the two red objects look identical in colour tinting etc on the screen, and you can't tell the difference.  But when the doc is converted to PDF the difference is obvious.

            After posting to this forum last night (Australian time), I wondered if it had something to do with dot resolution.  The graphic file is 300 dpi, whereas the red PM box is filled with color that may be at a much lower DPI, causing a dullness in the color.  I assume the PM 7 default for this can't be altered. Maybe there is a setting in Distiller that could handle this, so that the colors are equalised.

            The solution I'm currently using is to remove the box (or oblong) containing PM's RGB Red, then make another graphic file which is RGB Red (either at 300 dpi or 200 dpi, either TIFF or JPG, it doesn't matter), of the same page size as the PM doc, then place it onto the page and send it to the back so that everything else sits on top of it.  When converted to PDF you now can't tell the difference between the RGB Red in both graphics.

            I'm happy with the result, but it's a workaround.

            Thanks,

            Roger3

            • 3. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
              Roger3 Level 1

              I've just had a look at the Color setup and choices in Distiller's Job Options - I wouldn't know what to alter these to.  Current default setting is:

               

              Color Management Policies:

              Tag Everything For Color Management.

              Intent: Default

               

              Working Spaces:

              Gray: None

              RGB: cRGB IEC61966-2.1

              CMYK: U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2

               

              Thanks,

              Roger2

              • 4. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                Level 4

                Roger3 wrote:

                 

                Hi,

                Thanks for your reply.  No, I haven't converted any color images from RGB to CYMK.  The original graphic file was made as RGB.  The colored box in PM7 is set to the Color Options of:

                Type: Spot

                Model: RGB

                (R 255, G 0, B 0)

                 

                Well thats your problem. you are mixing a spot color with an RGB color

                • 5. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                  Roger3 Level 1

                  OK, I have altered the color settings in

                  PageMaker to Process and RGB (255, 0, 0).  On

                  converting to a PDF document I have the same

                  result on my screen - the PageMaker version of

                  red is duller than the RGB red in the graphic

                  file.  This may mean altering the way color is

                  presented when converting to PDF in Distiller,

                  but I wouldn't know which settings to select in

                  Distiller.  I listed the current default

                  Distiller settings in a previous posting to this

                  forum yesterday.  (I'm still wondering if it has

                  something to do with DPI resolution, because when

                  I placed a red-coloured GIF file of 72 dpi into

                  the same PageMaker document, it too looked duller

                  than the 300 dpi TIFF graphic file, both in

                  PageMaker and when converted to PDF, and is

                  identical to the dull PageMaker red in the PDF document.)

                  • 6. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                    Level 4

                    If you need CMYK use CMYK don't use RGB.

                     

                    Pagemaker is not sophisticated enough to manage color in this way. If you want to place RGB files and colors you really need to use Indesign.

                    • 7. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                      Jay Chevako Level 3

                      Resolution doesn't have anything to do with color. Your gif was different because that is an indexed color format, it converts everything to specific colors, often based on what looks good on screen.

                       

                      I would build the entire backround in photoshop, and as Buko says If you are printing in CMYK work in CMYK. When I used pagemaker I used Eps files with tiff previews. Eps files will pass through pagemaker without being altered in any way by Pm's insufficient color management.

                      Jay

                      • 8. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                        Roger3 Level 1

                        Thanks for both responses.  The only color that

                        will appear in the document is on the outside

                        cover.  A small number of sample copies are to be

                        printed direct from a PDF file, and it doesn't

                        require CMYK color separation, or so I've been told.

                        Should I do more of this on a regular basis,

                        rather than rarely, I'll move from PM to

                        InDesign, as Buko suggests, although I know

                        little about InDesign.  I also have an old version of Photoshop.

                        In fact I am way out of date with upgrades and

                        changes over the past few years, and with what I

                        should be using.  In order to make graphics and

                        desktop publishing documents for both the web and

                        for print output (and to smoothly integrate

                        graphics into DTP documents), and to convert to

                        PDF format, what Adobe software should I be

                        thinking about, and does it come as suites or

                        individually?  I've just had a quick look on the

                        net at Adobe Creative Suite - but there are a lot of variations here!

                         

                        Thanks.

                        • 9. Re: Why isn't the color identical when PM document is converted to PDF?
                          BigJohnD Level 3

                          Use one colour space only, as already suggested.  Conversion between the two is not good with PM.

                           

                          I'll see if I can find the FAQ all about it, as they were all lost when when we moved to Jive.

                           

                           

                          Iechyd da! John
                          10:33 08/06/2009 BST