18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 23, 2009 4:20 PM by A. Wayne Webb

    Fireworks vs. ImageReady

    A. Wayne Webb Level 1

      Need a little help in transitioning from ImageReady to Fireworks.

       

      In ImageReady I would have a PSD image from PS CS2 with all my states preset via multiple layers with effects.  Three layers (normal, over, down) each with its own effects.  I would pop over into ImageReady and generate my rollover states and then export it as an html page.  Then load it into my design in GoLive.

       

      In Fireworks (yuk!) I have a PSD file created in PS CS4 done the same way as before.  And boy was it fun figuring out the differences for assigning states to a layer. <grin>  I export the html file and all I get is a small file with no rollover states other than the raw "normal" image.  Even then it took a while to figure out to export a png file instead of a gif file.

       

      And I thought it especially nice, having spent my hard earned dollars for Creative Suite 4, to read in the Fireworks CS4 generated html button file that it is actually Fireworks CS3 with a "purty" picture and a FW CS4 splash screen.  When will Adobe ever learn.  Probably after the bigwigs screw their employees and us into the bargain!  ImageReady is a more intuitive program and worked better.  But then of course Dreamweaver does not accept a html file created in ImageReady.

       

      And don't buy their Fireworks CS4 Classroom in a Book.  Of course it did not go into creating a button ported over from Photoshop.  That made real sense.  About as much sense as their online training for creating buttons with rollover states.  Morons!

       

      In the Windows version of FW CS4 what ever happened to the good 'ol tried and true "ctrl+F4" to close a file?  Any program I've used over the years "ctrl+W" was generally used to write a file to disk!  So much for integration across the suite.  And did I forget to mention that you can no longer pop directly over into the web graphics program from Photoshop.  In PS CS2 it was right there in the File menu.  Again, Morons!

       

      So in closing — how do I create a three state button and export it as a html file from Fireworks CS4 using png files?

       

      Thank you in advance for the assistance.

        • 2. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
          Jim_Babbage Level 4

          Hello Wayne:

           

          I'm sorry the book did not answer your one specific question, but the

          book is not intended to b a replacement for the Fireworks manual.

           

          To answer your question, you have two options;

           

          You can create a button symbol, which will let you set up to four

          states for a button. This is probably the fastest way to do it.

           

          Or you can can set up three states first with the necessary graphics

          in the right locations, then slice the image and choose Add Nav Bar

          from the behavior handle (the circle in the middle of slice).

           

          Linda's link takes you right to the source in the FW manual, with detailed instructions on creating button symbols.

           

          HTH and have a nice day.

           

          Jim Babbage

           

          Message was edited by: Jim Babbage

          • 3. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
            A. Wayne Webb Level 1

            Linda & Jim,

             

            Thank you both for replying.  Actually I had already read the Fireworks online help file that Linda recommended.  It works great for starting a button from scratch within Fireworks.  The styles are glaring, to say the least, which is why I choose not to use their symbols.  I have yet to figure out how to tone down the color schemes.  Within ImageReady I had layers with adjustments the same as those in Photoshop demonstrating true software integration.  Meanwhile Fireworks approaches even the basic work flow from a differing perspective showing no integration between it and Photoshop.  It is an adhoc arrangement!

             

            It is more a case of ImageReady and Fireworks approaching the same task from different perspectives.  ImageReady graphics worked seemlessly with GoLive, or any other html generation program of that day, while Fireworks is more tailored towards Dreamweaver.  Even then it is mesmerizing to think that Dreamweaver does not understand html coding generated from another program.  Narrow minded!

             

            As for Jim's comment in regard to the Fireworks Classroom in a Book I understand that no book is to be a replacement for the help file associated with the subject matter.  I do appreciate his comments and expertise.  However, since the book is based on the same help file it should follow it in most regards.

             

            This book has been the sole instance of the Classroom in a Book series that has not answered all my questions.  I have some eight or nine of them for various CS2 and CS4 programs and they have all been extremely helpful.  Not all users will be generating their buttons and rollovers in Fireworks.  Many will still be generating them in Photoshop or some other program.  The book does not cover this concept.

             

            The Fireworks book seems to be indicating that it wants to be the html generating program with Dreamweaver CS4 as an adjunct.  Even the online Fireworks training is demonstrating this concept; design your screen shot (prototyping) in Fireworks, slice it up into little pieces, generate your html and then, and only then, touch up the coding in Dreamweaver.

             

            While I will continue to consider whether to spend my hard earned money on the Classroom in a Book series or not, I will relegate this book to the shelf and think about the need of such books in the future.  Being a "dabbler" and thus not spending thousands of dollars in a year, spending a meager couple of hundred instead, I know this will go in one ear and out the other at the corporate offices.

             

            While this posting is sort of off track for the question I originally posed; it is my hope that corporate is eavesdropping and will take my generously offered comments to heart as it comes from a long-time Adobe user.

             

            All I want to do is create the states of a button in Photoshop as layers; open the same file in Fireworks and create my html buttons.  This was easily accomplished in ImageReady.  But then Dreamweaver CS4 does not recognize ImageReady html files!

             

            Again, thank you Jim and Linda for your responses.  Your time and efforts for the community are deeply appreciated.

            • 4. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
              Jim_Babbage Level 4

              Wayne, if you can post a link to the file in question, maybe we can help further. As for toning down the styles, most of the effects for styles are applied using Live filters, which are listed in the Property inspector once the object has been selected. You can click on the "i" icon for any Live Filter and make adjustments to the effect.

               

              HTH

              • 5. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                Jim,

                 

                A most execellent suggestion!

                 

                I have attached the file to this posting so hopefully it should come through.  It is only 234kb so that should be no problem.  If not I have hosted the file on my site.

                • 6. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                  Jim_Babbage Level 4

                  Wayne I will try to have a look at your file tonight.

                   

                  Cheers

                   

                  Jim Babbage

                  NewMedia Services

                  http://www.newmediaservices.ca

                  Community MX Partner -

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                  Author - Lynda.com

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                  • 7. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                    Jim_Babbage Level 4

                    OK I've had a look at the file.

                     

                    First, this could have been built much easier within FW. A lot less 

                    hassle than converting the PSD. And if you're mocking up an entire 

                    desing, trust me, you don't want to rearranging things  in a complex 

                    files. in this manner.

                     

                    Fireworks uses states to handle the different appearances of a button, 

                    rather than the visibility of layers, so there is a definite 

                    disconnect when you try to convert a layered file to a set of state-

                    based rollovers. I thought there was an extension out there that would 

                    move distribute the layers to states, but I couldn't locate it.

                     

                    So what I did with your file is to first create three states in the 

                    states panel. Then I copied the objects from the over layer into the 

                    2nd state, and the objects from the down layer in state 1 to to down 

                    layer in state three. Technically,for something like this, you don't 

                    really need the multiple layers. Just a single layer on each state, 

                    containing the appropriate content, will do the job.

                     

                    Once you have the images in the right places, add a slice over the 

                    button and use the behaviors handle to add a two swap image behavior, 

                    to set the mouseover and the onclick events. This is the long way, 

                    remember.

                     

                    The option is creating a button symbol - - which gives you a self-

                    contained four state button. And all the javascript is created for you.

                     

                    I've uploaded my version of your file to http://www.newmediaservices.ca/jim_babbage/pshop/infobutton.png

                     

                    HTH

                     

                    Jim Babbage

                    • 8. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                      A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                      Mr. Babbage,

                       

                      And I chose to use that title with all the associative honorifics implied — thank you!  I now understand what the problem was.

                       

                      I choose not to use Fireworks for one specific reason.  I want to select exactly the same adjustment layers and design processes that I have for many years utilized using Photoshop and ImageReady.  As far as I can determine, and I may be incorrect in this, there is no method in Fireworks whereby I can utilize the blending options available in Photoshop.  Why this is not so I fail to understand.  But then once again if they are there then I must be overlooking something.

                       

                      In examing your most graciously accepted file I see that you had performed the same exact method of generation that I had.  The one difference, and this is the one that matters, you had added an additional "adjustment layer" under the Web Layer, i.e the slice.  This is what made it functional.

                       

                      I had created the additional states as this is the same mannerism used in ImageReady.  In that program a state is called a rollover.  It is the manual addition of a slice within Fireworks that makes it functional.  This slice was automatically added within ImageReady as a default.  It was only needed to play with slices in ImageReady if you needed additional slices.

                       

                      The html code generation is another matter.  The File | Export command defaults to gif files with no method to select other formats.  You can not generate either jpg or png files if that is your choice.  The gif file format uses color matting in an attempt to realize transparency unlike the png 24 format which natively utilizes transparency.  This gif file generation by unchangeable default is a program limitation.

                       

                      It is only by utilizing the File | Export Wizard and its associative confusing "Fireworks Analysis Results" (making you believe the wizard is about to quit) that you can select your desired file format.

                       

                      My learning curve has demonstrated the following:

                      1. You can not use ImageReady html generated files within Dreamweaver.  This is even though the ImageReady html code is validated.
                      2. You can use psd files for buttons in Fireworks with a little planning in Photoshop.
                      3. You can not use or alter Photoshop's Layer Syles / blending schemas in Fireworks.  This was easily accomplished in ImageReady!
                      4. You must manually add a slice in Fireworks.  This is automatic in ImageReady.
                      5. In Fireworks If you desire png or jpg files you must use the File | Export Wizard.  The File | Export command allows for gif files only with no ability to change it.

                       

                      Hopefully in the next version, more hard-earned money spent on my part, Adobe will have greater integration between Photoshop and Fireworks.  The most desirable one at this point would be the inclusion of Photoshop's Layer Styles as the method of generating button appearances.  Fireworks is not an image editing program, though it attempts to do so, but a tighter integration would overcome this hurtle.

                       

                      Thank you Jim for your continued excellence.

                      • 9. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                        pixlor Level 4

                        A. Wayne Webb wrote:

                         

                        The html code generation is another matter.  The File | Export command defaults to gif files with no method to select other formats.  You can not generate either jpg or png files if that is your choice.  The gif file format uses color matting in an attempt to realize transparency unlike the png 24 format which natively utilizes transparency.  This gif file generation by unchangeable default is a program limitation.

                         

                         

                        When you create a slice, you have some options for the exported file type in the Properties panel.

                        export.png

                         

                        Also, if you have exported a file in a different format than .gif, that file type should be the default for any new slices, as well as the File > Export menu item. For the example in my screen capture, my slice defaulted to PNG24. For exporting images, I usually use File > Image Preview, as it has all the options.

                         

                        The Web Layer is not really an adjustment layer. It is just the layer that the slices exist on. Fireworks layers are subtly different from Photoshop layers. In Fireworks, layers can be used to organize objects. For example, I will often group objects used in a header in one layer, objects in a footer in another, objects for a sidebar in a third, and so on. It helps keep things organized. Text objects, vector objects, and bitmap objects can all live happily together in a layer.

                        • 10. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                          Jim_Babbage Level 4

                          Hi Wayne:

                           

                          Lorraine's feedback is spot on and yes, at this time, Fireworks does 

                          not support adjustment layers. However, if you do not need to return 

                          to Photoshop with the design, you can import the file and flatten the 

                          adjustment layers, thus maintaining the "appearance of the adjustment, 

                          but not the editability. Set this in the Photoshop import/open dialog 

                          by choosing Maintain Photoshop Layer Appearance. That should take care 

                          of it.

                           

                          Layer styles are supported and remain editable; they're called 

                          Photoshop Live Filters in FW and they're found in the Live Filters 

                          section of the Property Inspector. Granted, the Live Filters dialog 

                          for these PS effects is not nearly as robust as it is in PS, but the 

                          effects are maintained and remain  editable.

                           

                          Regarding Export/Optimization, you have far more control over these 

                          options within the Optimize panel. As with PS/IR slices, you can 

                          individually optimize each slice (and files tend to be smaller). Any 

                          unsliced areas are given the default optimization setting (which - 

                          oddly enough is GIF. but that is easily changed in the Optimize panel, 

                          too).

                           

                          Every version of FW since Adobe took over the application, has seen 

                          improved integration between PS and FW. I too, hope this continues so 

                          I can better utilize supplied files from other designers, for web use.

                           

                          HTH

                           

                           

                           

                          Jim Babbage

                          • 11. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                            A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                            Morning Lorraine & Jim,

                             

                            You are both correct in most regards.  The one overriding concern, and this is the way I have done it for years, is to preserve the editability.  Jim mentioned this in his opening paragraph:

                             

                            Fireworks does not support adjustment layers. However, if you do not need to return to Photoshop with the design, you can import the file and flatten the adjustment layers, thus maintaining the "appearance" of the adjustment, but not the editability.

                             

                            Preserving editability is why I design my buttons in Photoshop and create the Internet images and code in ImageReady.  As Jim indicated the Photoshop Live Filters in Fireworks are not robust.  I should quantify this and say they suck!  There implemention is a subset of the blur, noise, adjust color, other and sharpen tools of Photoshop.  For that matter there are freeware programs out there that do these functions better.  I chose not to use them.

                             

                            Meanwhile what I have been referring to is Photoshop's Layer Styles which is something totally different.  And, as Jim was kind enough to indicate, is far superior to Fireworks' Filters options.

                             

                            Things have gotten a lot more complicated for those accustomed to having used ImageReady for all these years.  What in ImageReady was created with a couple of clicks and an Optimize command has been replaced with a hidden plethora of obscure commands.  This is obviously a moot point if you wish to be limited by using the "symbols" and styles in Fireworks.  If you still desire to use the editability of creating a PSD or TIF in Photoshop and then creating your rollovers in Fireworks you need to learn these commands.

                             

                            However, if you are satisfied with the results, and I call them glaring for want of a better term, then go ahead and forget Photoshop.  Create your buttons and rollover effects in Fireworks.  I detest the term "symbol" in Fireworks as it clashes with the usage of symbol in Photoshop.

                             

                            Following are the steps needed in Fireworks for creating a button ported over from Photoshop.

                            1. Create your button in PS and assign the Layer Style for your appearance.  Name this layer normal.
                            2. For ease of use name each subsequent layer over, down, etc.  Create a Layer Style for each different from the preceeding one.
                            3. Save the file with some illustrative name, i.e. infobutton.psd.
                            4. Open this file in Fireworks Duplicate the State as many times as needed naming each state the same as your layers.
                            5. Select each state and turn on or off visibility of the same named layer.  Turn off the layers not needed.
                            6. In the Layers panel click on the "Slice" layer and add a slice to the Web Layer.
                            7. Add a Behavior to it. Use the Swap Image and select your "over / State 2" state.  Make sure that the Preload Images and Restore image onMouseOut are selected.  Check that the behavior has defaulted to onMouseOver.
                            8. Create another Swap Image behavior deselecting the onMouseOut radio button.  Change the Events drop down to onClick.
                            9. Follow the procedures for Export in the html page. (Unfortunately this does not make a html file usable by Dreamweaver in all cases—additional steps are needed.)
                            10. Make darn sure that in the Export | Options | HTML style dropdown window that you have Dreamweaver HTML / XHTML selected.  For some unknown mysterious reason Dreamweaver will not accept a Fireworks generated html / xhtml file if that file is saved as a generic html / xhtml file.  This demonstrates the not too nice interaction of Dreamweaver and Fireworks.  Dreamweaver should read any html file.  You really need to see this in operation to understand the ramifications.

                             

                            As I said there is some integration between the two programs.  Not much, but enough that they are at least image editing programs of differing behavior and interoperability.  The inconsistencies can be tolerated with workarounds, I hate that term, and some forethought.  The days of ImageReady are long gone if you want to use Dreamweaver as your HTML coding program.  To use Fireworks in the same fashion as you once did with a Photoshop and ImageReady workflow entails additional at times confusing steps.

                             

                            If however your desire is to create all of your graphical site develpment in Fireworks it is indeed a powerful program if a bit obtuse from other similar programs.  Fireworks is trying to do too many things similar to Photoshop, i.e. with it's Filters selectors, that are drastically toned down subsets of the originals.

                             

                            Why would I have slices in Photoshop if they are not recognized natively in Fireworks?  Photoshop automatically has a Slice 1 for each and every file with the ability to add additional slices as needed.  This Slice 1 not recognized in Fireworks.  Create an additional slice (Slice 2) in Photoshop and save the file.  Open the psd file in Fireworks and only the second slice is recognized.  This easily demonstrates inconsistencies between the two programs.

                             

                            Lorraine was kind enough to offer her assistance.  As she indicated there are "some" options.  However they do not include the creation of PNG files. as shown in her screen capture.  That being said she has two additional options that do not appear in my FW CS4.  I am referring to the RL-image and RL-thumb selectors.  It is likely something I missed.

                            insert.png

                            Yes, she was very accurate in stating that Fireworks defaults to saving the image files generated along with the associative html file.  Whatever the prior image format was is what all succeeding ones will be.  A caveat however is that in the File | Export Image | Options | Document Setup the example file naming still shows the GIF image format as what the images will saved as.  Another, in my honest opinion, inconsistency.

                             

                            I hope this may be helpful to others migrating from ImageReady to Fireworks and appreciate the assistance of all those who have participated.  It has been an interesting learning concern that should not have been required.  Perhaps a tutorial demonstrating just how to port over a PSD button file created in Photoshop to Fireworks would have answered all my questions.  At least for those of us more accustomed to ImageReady who have now migrated by force to Fireworks.

                             

                            Respectfully submitted.

                            • 12. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                              Linda Nicholls Level 4

                              "However they do not include the creation of PNG files. as shown in her screen capture"

                               

                              The option to export in PNG format is found in the Optimize panel. You needn't be limited by using the symbols and styles in Fireworks. You can give the artist in you free reign and create them from scratch.

                              • 13. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                pixlor Level 4

                                A. Wayne Webb wrote:

                                 

                                Lorraine was kind enough to offer her assistance.  As she indicated there are "some" options.  However they do not include the creation of PNG files. as shown in her screen capture.  That being said she has two additional options that do not appear in my FW CS4.  I am referring to the RL-image and RL-thumb selectors.  It is likely something I missed.

                                 

                                The PNG option came in because I'd last exported a file as that type. It isn't in the drop down list. I don't know what the RL-image and RL-thumb options are, actually. I'm still using CS3, because I've been happy with it. As you're using CS4, I'm sure there are differences. It isn't that you've missed something.  I still recommend using the Image Preview, because you have so many options in terms of seeing which file type will give you the smallest file size and you can check JPEG compression results against file size. It's just too useful.

                                 

                                As I said there is some integration between the two programs.  Not much, but enough that they are at least image editing programs of differing behavior and interoperability.  The inconsistencies can be tolerated with workarounds, I hate that term, and some forethought.  The days of ImageReady are long gone if you want to use Dreamweaver as your HTML coding program.  To use Fireworks in the same fashion as you once did with a Photoshop and ImageReady workflow entails additional at times confusing steps.

                                 

                                 

                                If however your desire is to create all of your graphical site develpment in Fireworks it is indeed a powerful program if a bit obtuse from other similar programs.  Fireworks is trying to do too many things similar to Photoshop, i.e. with it's Filters selectors, that are drastically toned down subsets of the originals.

                                 

                                 

                                It's a different program and it was built with a different philosophy by a different group of programmers at a different company. Of course it's going to seem different from Photoshop. I think you would have a much easier time learning Fireworks if you just tried to learn how to use it, rather than trying to think of it as a twisted and inferior version of ImageReady.

                                 

                                Not every program can have every feature, nor every feature with the same level of power. Fireworks is a hybrid vector and bitmap editing program with a Web focus. Photoshop is a photo editing program that had Web functionality tacked on. Nobody has any more right to a given use of any term than any body else (terms have different uses in different contexts) and you can't expect every program to be able to read every other program's code (that's both a licensing issue and a code bloat issue).

                                 

                                 

                                Here's my primary work flow. I use Fireworks for basic vector illustration, because it's perfectly good at that. I use Expression (version 3.3) and Illustrator for complex vector illustrations because I like them better. If I need to change an illustration, yes, I need to go back to Illy or Expression...but that's okay. I'll use Photoshop (or sometimes some other editor) to do any advanced raster work that another program is better at than Fireworks. Fireworks is my graphics hub, my mixing panel, my control panel. It's where everything graphical comes together for me. If Fireworks could do everything all my other programs could do, my computer probably couldn't run it efficiently, and I have 4G of memory.

                                 

                                Once I have my design, I export my graphics and start building my Web site in Dreamweaver. Again, Dreamweaver doesn't have all the text/code editing tools I like to use, so sometimes I'll do stuff in Excel or TextPad. (Or even Word sometimes, ack!) I'll put HTML table tags and cell references in Excel and copy that into Dreamweaver (or sometimes through TextPad, first, so I guess my diagram is missing an arrow). TextPad has some nifty coder tools that are more efficient for me to use than Dreamweaver's, including the ability to search/replace multiple lines or through multiple files at one fell swoop. Sometimes, I'll edit the same file in both Dreamweaver and TextPad simultaneously. Both programs know when an open file has been changed and give me the option to refresh with the new changes or not.

                                 

                                workflow.png

                                 

                                I choose to use the tool that works best for me to do the particular operation I want to do at the moment. I integrate my tools. By being flexible, I have more options and more capabilites.

                                • 14. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                  A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                                  Linda, Jim & Lorraine,

                                   

                                  I thank you one and all.  Each of you were able to give me a little bit of wisdom in the, to me, mysterious workings of Fireworks.  I have to agree with Lorraine's statements:

                                   

                                        It's a different program and it was built with a different philosophy by a different group of programmers at a different company.

                                   

                                  This was a very accurate summation and adroitly makes my comments come to life.  And her workflow, different than that to which I have become accustomed to, works very well for her.  I am sure that eventually Adobe will settle on just how the two programs can come to work and coexist with each other.  She came up in the world of the Illustrator–Photoshop–Fireworks–Dreamweaver workflow.  Meanwhile I am more accustomed to a workflow involving the Photoshop–GoLive path.  I see that I have a severe learning curve ahead.  Reinventing the wheel is akin to a differing philosophy!

                                   

                                  I especially enjoyed Photoshop's Web Photo Gallery.  While it has severe limitations, not using divs, I find that the implementation as it now exists is extremely limiting.  Yes, I can utilize the old Web Photo Gallery by adding it back in, with it's limitations, but those in Bridge are ugly.  This is more because of the digital archives I create.  Or am trying to create.

                                   

                                  Having now learned to accomodate my needs of using Photoshop PSD files, really needing Photoshop's Layer Styles, to create buttons to my satisfaction, I will move on to learning to create my navigation bars.  Reading my FW CS4 book today I failed to locate a section, I must have missed it, describing how to build one from scratch.  As before I need to create it in Photoshop, assign my slices to layers, open it in Fireworks, and finally, create my html.

                                   

                                  This should be an interesting journey.  I hope I can receive the same considerations and wisdom that each of these highly knowledgeable people has been able to contribute.

                                   

                                  I still find it interesting and troublesome that Dreamweaver will not recognize a generic html file created from within Fireworks.  I created two versions of the same file and worked it through Fireworks and saved it in both flavors, a Dreamweaver html file and a generic html file.  There is no coding difference other than comments in the first.  Odd!  Also odd is the omission of the old tried and true "Ctrl+F4" to close a file.

                                  • 15. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                    pixlor Level 4

                                    You're welcome!

                                     

                                    Actually, I started with Paint Shop Pro, Painter, Expression, Fireworks, and Dreamweaver. It was only the lure of upgrading my DW/FW suite to the CS3 Web Premium Suite that got me into Photoshop and Illustrator at all. I'm a newbie to both Photoshop and Illustrator. They're different from the tools I've used for years. Since they are very powerful, when there's something I want to do with them, I know there must be a way, I just have to find out what that is. Sometimes, trying to search the Help, I don't even know what the proper term is, since terms vary in usage. For Photoshop, I recently took a 2-day class through my local community college continuing ed department. I'll probably take an Illustrator class, too, even though I've been finding some wonderful tutorials and other resources out on the Web.

                                     

                                     

                                    So now, you have three specific questions: photo galleries, navigation bars, and FW HTML not opening in DW. These are three topics that each deserve their own threads:

                                     

                                     

                                    What are good Web photo galleries?

                                    Maybe post on that on the DW forum. There are many, many Web photo galleries out there that have great features and are easy to implement. I've used SimpleViewer (http://www.airtightinteractive.com/simpleviewer/) and it's quite easy to add to a Web page and also to add or modify the contents later on.

                                     

                                    Best way to make a navigation bar?

                                    The answer you'll get here is to create your images in Fireworks and export them, then build your nav bar in Dreamweaver. Fireworks' HTML is for prototyping, it is fragile and is difficult to maintain. When you're building HTML, you're better off using an HTML authoring program.

                                     

                                    Dreamweaver won't open Fireworks HTML?

                                    This is very odd and you should definitely create a new thread for this problem. If you can post your FW document somewhere and possibly the code you get out of it, people here are willing to check it out and see what's going on. (Don't use the attach feature, as lately the documents aren't moving out of the "queued" state.)

                                    • 16. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                      A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                                      Morning Lorraine,

                                       

                                      An interesting concept.  Differing people, all with the same end goals, but arriving at a solution based on their own experiences.  And as you stated it is an ongoing educational experiment.

                                       

                                      Yes, I do intend to post my other queries when I get to that aspect of my digital archival hobby.  For the heavy lifting of web photo gallery, pages of over 400+ thumbnails, I still utilize the old tried and true Web Photo Gallery of Photoshop.  Yes it has serious limitations but those I will not herein go into other than to say the resultant html files are archaic having been scripted in the days before the usage of divs.  You can view a utilization of one I created many moons ago by visiting my 1883 Gospel Messenger or Some Who Led sites.  They are based on a PS Web Photo Gallery with massaging.

                                       

                                      For smaller sites, utilizing the same historical publication materials, I went a different style.  This is expressed by viewing my 1903 Brethren's Family Almanac.  This site was designed from scratch using a self-created template in GoLive CS2.  Since at that time I did not have my own web space, and my friend does not know how to remove it from his, it still reflects navigation based on his site.  It is this publication, and some thirty others of the same, that I am working on just now.  It will be a from scratch creation using Fireworks for the menu creation and Dreamweaver for the heavy lifting.  Once I have the template created the process should speed along.  It will also incorporate clickable links, such as the afore referenced infobutton.psd file, to perform certain duties.

                                       

                                      For the traditional web photo gallery most people are accustomed to, displaying photographs, I settled on JAlbum.  The gallery of templates are, in the main, created using divs and show an amazing range of design styles.  The first that I created is for a portion of my Fluke Glass Plate Negative Collection from the late 1800s and early 1900s.  They were the work of a self-taught photographer, Samuel Fluke, and believe it or not I found some five hundred of them, filthy, in peach crates.  It has taken me many hours of work with many more to go.  This is both a rescue and a historical project.

                                       

                                      Utilizing the same template but with a differing color scheme I created another site for a friend so he could share a portion of his collection with his relatives.  This was from the prints themselves.  Hopefully this collection of sites demonstrate the basis of my non-profit work.

                                       

                                      Since, with the assistance of this wonderful group of individuals, I can now comprehend the creation of a simple button using my Photoshop images, I have already begun working on the design process of my menu bar.  I believe when I get to it that I will title that discussion Fireworks vs. ImageReady #2.  Hopefully folks in the future will find the discussion useful.

                                       

                                      And now to your last comment.  You perhaps misunderstood my comments in regard to Fireworks two flavors of html.  When using the File | Export Wizard you can select in the Options portion of the final screen to export your design as either a Dreamweaver or Generic html file.  Dreamweaver will only allow the usage of the Fireworks exported Dreamweaver html file.  Dreamweaver will not accept the Fireworks exported Generic html file.  But after examining the two files, Dreamweaver and Generic, the only difference I find is in the comments.

                                       

                                      The Fireworks to Dreamweaver html file can be viewed here.  The Fireworks to Generic html file can be viewed here.  Dreamweaver will not accept the Generic file.  Until I caught on to it I also noticed that I was required to copy the javascript in the Dreamweaver infobutton file over into my design page.  No problem as I will eventually incorporate it into a script reference (button.js) when completed for coding cleanness.  Hopefully the script will not change from infobutton to feedbackbutton to whatever.

                                       

                                      These many postings haves all been about a site in the design phase which can be viewed at 1896 Brethren's Family Almanac.  The infobutton will incorporate a pop up window as demonstrated at this site.  As soon as I accomplish that feat I will move onto a full menu design.  I believe I will need to learn how to incorporate in my menu bar a drop down list.  This list will be links to the various years of the almanacs in my collection.  The main page for the entire site, all the various years, will be one talking about the various publishers and the associative printing history.  Anyone want to help?

                                       

                                      This has been a wonderful discussion and I hope that one and all has learned something from it.  This is a wonderful community for not looking at me as a kook on the fringe!

                                       

                                      Respectfully.

                                      • 17. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                        pixlor Level 4

                                        The Glass Plate collection is incredible! Hats off to you for such a labor of love!

                                         

                                        For your menu bar thread, I do recommend you title it with something about making menu bars. Since you won't be making them in ImageReady, the title you suggest may cause people who could help you to skip over the thread. Good titles are important.

                                         

                                        As for Dreamweaver not opening your files...I'm very puzzled. I downloaded both, put them in a folder on my desktop, opened my Dreamweaver (CS3), used the local file option to navigate to where the files were, double-clicked each of them in turn, and they both opened right up.

                                        Webbfiles.png

                                        Ta da!

                                        webb.png

                                         

                                        So, yes, I'm using a different version of DW then you are, but I think my experiment shows this problem is worth its own thread. Maybe you've found a bug in DW CS4, but you'd need someone wtih the same version of the software (preferably on the same OS) to try doing exactly what you're doing.

                                         

                                        Cheers!

                                        • 18. Re: Fireworks vs. ImageReady
                                          A. Wayne Webb Level 1

                                          Thanks for the compliment.  The JAlBum gallery did most of the lifting.  The images themselves in the original is slightly over 40gig in color at 1200dpi.  The metadata creation was really important to me so researching the people in the image was almost as important.  I've spent to many hours on the phone back and forth with a researcher who is familiar with the area.  I stress metadata overly much but am willing to do so!

                                           

                                          And your comment about the title for the discussion is taken well to heart.

                                           

                                          As for the Fireworks' two versions of a generated html file you got it a little confused.  In DW CS4 create a html site and do an insert Images : Fireworks HTML file. I believe it is the same in CS3.  Chose the Fireworks generated Dreamweaver button file and not a quip out of DW.  It is in Dreamweaver's importing of the Generic html file that the odd behavior occurs.  It will not import it.

                                           

                                          'Tis likely operator error.