33 Replies Latest reply on Oct 8, 2009 3:46 PM by patterntangle

    AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive

    cspecter

      This is very frustrating, our company has been fighting this problem since we upgraded.  I work for a major broadcaster which uses AE for all our motion graphics work.  Since upgrading to CS4 we've experienced a team wide decrease in productivity.  AE CS4 renders slower than CS3 and in some cases will completely lock up the computer when rendering, making it impossible to do any sort of simple multitasking.  Even switching to the Finder and moving around windows is very slow.  Let alone try to use Safari or type into a TextEdit document.  We've tried everything, but details first.

       

      We're running on last-gen 8-core 3.2GHz Mac Pro's.  Each has 10GB of ram and 1TB of HD space (mostly empty).  NVidia GeForce 8800 GT video card.  Runing AE 9.0.2.42)

       

      We realize that 10GB is not enough ram to use all 8 processors at full speed.  So AE is set to use multiprocessing with a max of 3 cores with 2GB minimum with 2 GB in reserve for other applications.  All the work we do is with HD footage.  All footage is delivered in Apple Prores.  Any comp of medium or greater complexity will completely slow down the system.  When comparing CS3 rendering time to CS4, CS4 seems about 30-40% slower. When rendering CS4 will also completely lock up the system, switching windows is a complete pain.  We've tried turing on and off OpenGL in AE, but no change.  We're tried every combination of settings we can think of.   Rendering without multiprocessing is even slower and still locks up the system. Also in Activity Monitor is will often show only limited CPU useage (see attached screen).  You can see I'm running multiple aeselflink instances, but each one is no where near 100 and the system is still unresponsive!

       

      Outside of rendering CS4 also is much more unresponsive when just working (not rendering).  Moving clips around in the composition window and navigating the timeline are sometimes a chore, with lots of 1-2 second delays before taking the action.  Or slow screen updates.

       

      Any ideas what is happening here?  If is something with the change from 32-bit to 64-bit.  Will more ram fix it or is there something else going on?  This is becoming a very frustrating situations where we have to completely restart the computer and make sure no other apps are running before even trying to render our anything.  CS3 did not seem to have these problems, even with multiprocessing turned on at it's default settings.  We like many of the new features in CS4 and are practically required to use it because we get a lot of projects from vendors, but it's proving very slow to work in. 

        • 1. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
          TimeRemapper Level 4

          Do all of your projects use the ProRes codec?

          Do you have the same bogginess if you start a new project with no ProRes material?

          It sounds weird, though.

          Do you have anti-virus, or other big-brother software running?

          Is the footage stored locally, or on a network? Raided HD's?

          You may want to try posting your picture using the little camera icon instead of attaching it. Otherwise it'll probably sit in the queue for awhile.

          • 2. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
            cspecter Level 1

            A vast majority of our projects use Prores, as all our edit suites run FCP and the storage savings with Prores with HD is enormous.  Though to quality the problem we've tried using uncompressed 10-bit and TGA sequences all with the same results.  These are Macs so no anti-virus or anything like that. Actually pretty clean workstations except for the apps we use.  The footage is either stored locally on fast drives or on a Terrablock system (fibrechannel) so it's definitely not access speed to the clips. As I said before loading up a similar project in CS3 works fine.  Convert that to a CS4 project and BAM, slow-city.  Working on and rendering out SD comps seems to operate fine.  But as soon as we start working on HD comps (which is most everything these days) then system slowdown becomes very apparent.  Extremely frustrating.  Seems like a configuration issue or a 32-bit/64-bit thing, but we can't tell.  All I can say is that CS4 has lead to an increase in swearing in the office.

            • 3. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
              TimeRemapper Level 4
              seems like a configuration issue or a 32-bit/64-bit thing, but we can't tell.  All I can say is that CS4 has lead to an increase in swearing in the office.

               

              Well, OSX, while a 64-bit OS, still needs to have a few things tweaked to take full advantage of it's architecture (as is spoken of for the Snow Leopard release).

              However, CS3 and CS4 (AE - Mac) are both still 32-bit applications, meaning that they can only access the 3.X GB/process that is currently supported.

               

              Anyway, I don't think that's an issue.

               

              We're working off of a Terrablock system here too. I don't think that's an issue (but we're still running CS3 in the office).

               

              Maybe the other fine folks here will have some better suggestions?

               

              Just as a side thought, do you have the "Hardware Accelerate Composition, Layer, and Footage Panels" toggle enabled in the prefs?

              If so, maybe try disabling it?

              • 4. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                There have been sporadic issues with the graphics card type you use in the context of all CS4 apps (for fun, you could search them on the forums), so I think Steve's suggestion for turning off acceleration or getting rid of OpenGL entirely is spot on. Since you say it works fine in CS3, at this point I'd rule out networking or harddrive issues. Give it a spin and report back.

                 

                Mylenium

                • 5. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                  cspecter Level 1

                  A few other observations from this morning.  We've been running with all OpenGL functions turned off with little improvement.  After a fresh boot up this morning CS4 seems to be rendering a little quicker and I was able to switch out to some other apps.  Each processor was running at maximum.  There was still some pinwheeling, but not as bad. Unfortunately this did not last long.  The longer AE is open the slower it gets until after a couple of hours it's back to an unusable state.  Multitasking is impossible and actually causes CS4 to slow way down.  I have CS4 set to only use 8GB of my 10GB of memory and only to use 3 processors.  After a reboot and testing with some similar files, CS3 does not exhibit the same problems.  I can multitask with CS3, but not CS4. 

                   

                  I'm beginning to think that CS4 either has some very serious memory management problems or a serious memory leak issue.  Any ideas?  We get this problem on all the workstations here so it can't be a computer problem.  We're all on 10.5.7, is CS4 not compatible with 10.5.7?

                  • 6. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                    cspecter Level 1

                    Tried a couple of other things.  Ran a fairly large project (around 23GB worth of media files) on a couple sources, internal HD and off of Terrablock.  No discernable difference in performance.  The only thing that seems to help is restarting the computer.  The longer that AE is open the more ram gets tied up on the system, until it gets to a point where total system performance starts to degrade with a lot of swapping activity on the HD.  Rebooting seems to help and we are getting decent performance after a reboot.  CS4 and Cinema 4D R11 don't seem to play well together either.  Even when quitting AE to open C4D, C4D will often report an out of memory error.  CS3 is not exhibiting this problem. 

                     

                    Hopefully someone at Adobe is monitoring these boards as I'd like to get their take on the situation.

                    • 7. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                      Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                      cspecter: I am monitoring this forum, but this is the kind of thing which goes beyond what I, as a non-engineer, can do here to help you directly.

                      If, for example, you got an unexpected rendering behavior or error message triggered by a specific project, I would request the project and check what's going on.

                      If there was a crash, the Crash Reporter would send a lot of relevant data to Adobe.

                      But in this case it could be a million things. Note that a lot of people have similar configurations (except maybe for the 8800 card), so it would really take going through all the hardware and software components in your computers.

                      So, one thing you could do is file a bug report, including all your configuration data and contact info.

                      • 9. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                        Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                        Also, if you go to Preferences > Memory and Multiprocessing, how much RAM do you have assigned at the top as "RAM to leave for other applications"?

                        • 10. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                          cspecter Level 1

                          Yes, we are on 9.0.2.  All of our workstations have 10GB of ram with AE set to reserve 2GB for other applications.  RIght now, with my system only running AE, all non AE processes are taking up about 850MB of ram.  I've noticed though that when I go to render AE will take it's 8GB, but something else is happening to suck up the remaining ram, so that my system only has 8-12mb of free ram available resulting in reduced system responsiveness and slow performance.  Maybe more ram will help, I've put in a request to get more to our IT department, so we'll see if that helps.

                          • 11. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                            Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                            Hi, cspecter.

                             

                            This thread shows why the multiprocessing preferences exist at all

                             

                            You see, most users expect AE to simply milk every possible computing resource in a system to make renders faster. Even checking e-mail can be painful, since all the muscle is there doing the heavy lifting.

                            Other users prefer to have some computing resources left to have a responsive system while they work on other applications.

                             

                            So, leaving a number of CPUs free for other apps is a part of it (in your case a must, since you don't have enough RAM to feed all 8 cores). The other part is, as I said, setting the amount of RAM free for other applications to something usable, or otherwise you'll see these apps use virtual memory all the time.Think about it, who runs applications on a system with 0.5 or 0.75 gigabytes? You probably want to set it to, say, at lest 1.5 GB of RAM free for other applications. Now, this is even more of a reason to have more RAM, since you just lost a GB or so for multiprocessing in AE.

                             

                            Try setting CPUs free to 5 (so you use 3) and RAM free for other apps to 1.5 or 2GB. Just in case, relaunch the app (not really needed, but it can help if the system is drowning). Does it feel more responsive that way?

                            • 12. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                              cspecter Level 1

                              Well, this whole time CS4 has been set to use a maximum of 3 cores (5 reserved for other apps) with a max of 8GB ram for CS4 (leaving 2GB for other apps).  With all the associated problems, slow system response, etc.  Seems like that should be more than enough to run a web browser and Finder.

                               

                              Even a test, when just running AE and no other apps, switching back to the finder would sometime pinwheel the whole system with those settings when rendering a longer HD project.  What I don't understand is that when we ran CS3 we had set it to use just 4 cores and no special memory settings and we never had these slow down problems and projects rendered out quite a bit faster.  This is not just on one machine either, we have 7 workstations in our office which all exhibit the same slow down problems.  We are going to test a machine with more ram later this week to see if that fixes or alleviates the problem. 

                              • 13. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                cspecter: I am afraid, as I said before, this could happen because of a million reasons. And while it happens in 7 machines, these are 7 machines in the same environment, where whatever conditions that triggers this, is likely to also exist in the other computers

                                The settings I mentioned are normally the ones which could more directly release resources for other apps.

                                 

                                But if you're using large HD projects, 10 GB of RAM may not  be enough with 3 cores for multiprocessing (you'd have 2 gb per core, plus 2GB for the main app, plus 2GB for others apps).

                                 

                                If you set it to use 2 cores (6 free), does it feel more responsive?

                                 

                                What happens if you turn off multiprocessing completely? Besides slower rendering, I mean

                                 

                                I understand you feel CS3 was more responsive, but that could be circumstancial, as lawyers say

                                In CS3, multiprocessing was more an all or nothing kind of thing.

                                • 14. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                  cspecter Level 1

                                  The test files we have been using to compare the two were built in CS3 then brought into CS4.  They consistently get 5-10% quicker renders in CS3 with a more responsive UI and no pinwheeling slowdowns in other apps.  We edited the pref file for CS3 to set the max number of CPUs the program could use to 4 (which is now present in CS4's pref panel).  I've tries pretty much every combo of settings in the multiprocessing panel that makes sense, from off to 7 cores. I've been using a setting of 2-3 cores and 7-8GB of ram for the last 3 months, with not a lot of difference between the two.  Setting fewer processors definitely makes files render slower though with multiprocessing off being about 2.5-3X slower than with 3 CPUs set. 

                                   

                                  Like I said though, we'll try a computer with more ram to see if it improves CS4's performance and solves our problems.

                                  • 15. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                    skinnyadam

                                    Our company is having the same problem by the sounds of it - it definitely feels like a cs4/memory leak issue. And it is becoming a serious issue in productivity and reliability. On one of our workstations we have 20gigs of ram, it's an octo 3ghz machine with the 8800 and performance is brutally slow. Forget about multicore  rendering - we have had to disable it on all of our machines as it completely brought our machines crashing to a standstill. BUt even with it off and limiting processors and ram there seems to be major issues. To the point of opening mail at the same time is an issue. We are stuck in the same boat of having to reboot, shut down all other apps just to render out at 30% slower than CS3 and I couldn't agree more about the unresponsiveness - the pinwheel seems to come up all the time and often I am afraid to touch the mouse when it does as the program will often crash after being stuck indefinitely. Something that has become more and more apparent lately is that when setting up a render the program will often sit for up to 20 minutes before the render will actually start. Once it goes it seems fine, but getting it going is another matter entirely. There is definitely an issue, however I'm not sure if it is with cs4, the 8800 card, OS 10.5.xxx or what, but there is certainly an issue. I really hope we can figure this out as it is just grinding our studio to a halt.

                                     

                                    any advice would be greatly appreciated.

                                    thanks.

                                    • 16. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                      Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                      So, cspecter and skinnyadam, let's do this: write to me with your contact info and configuration details, and I'll file a bug so that this can be tracked.

                                      If you have a project that you feel triggers this clearly, also please attach it in the message. No need to include source files.

                                      arozenfe[at]adobe.com

                                      • 17. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                        cspecter Level 1

                                        So we did a little more testing with a machine that had more ram (16GB).  Same problems.  But after some experimentation I think we've figured out what the issue is and a work around (though I don'[t know what the underlying cause is).  In our current setup we had reserved 2GB for the system in the After Effects preferences, thinking this was enough for basic system functions and a web browser.  In the Activity Monitor everything but AE was using a total of around 800-900mb in resources.  This left around 1.2GB in free memory available.  As soon as we tried to render a project in AE CS4 that sourced ANY HD footage the available free ram would immediately drop to about 1-5MB with a commensurate drop in overall system performance. Adding up all the system tasks in the Activity Monitor and assigned ram was still only 800-900mb, so I don't know what process was using up this additional free ram.

                                         

                                        We upped the reserved system ram to 3GB in the prefs and when rendering the available free ram would hover around 25-100mb with slightly better system performance though still a lot of pinwheeling.  We ultimatly had to up the reserved ram to between 4-5GB before we had decent system performance while rendering in CS4 (we would still get a large drop in the available free ram, but it would settle in around 500-700mb which seems to be what OSX needs to proper system performance).  This means that on an 8-core system we'd need about 20GB with that setup to use 7 cores for AE rendering.

                                         

                                        CS3 does not exhibit these problems.  When rendering out an HD project in CS3 with no special memory settings and 4 cores enabled (edited in the pref file) there was no large drop in free memory.  Render times were slightly faster in CS3 using 4 cores and CS4 using 4 cores though to use 4 cores in CS4 we had to use a machine with a lot more memory in it. 

                                         

                                        Hopefully that will give some insight to the dev team when looking for the core issue.

                                        • 18. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                          Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                          Thanks, Chad.

                                          I am adding this information to everything both you guys sent me off-forum.

                                          • 19. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                            xisAU

                                            This problem could be related to 10.5.7 - I came across this topic after a few iMacs i look after became unresponsive after the update to 10.5.7 with CS3 - there is quite a large thread over on Apple discussions about 10.5.7 now, though there is no firm reason as to what machines are affected and what is causing it. You could try rebuilding a machine to 10.5.6, it may help with your problem.

                                            • 20. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                              cspecter Level 1

                                              This is actually one of the first things we thought might be the problem.  We have 8 AE workstations at our office.  The one I've been testing on is 10.5.7, we have two with 10.5.6 an the rest are 10.5.5.  The problems exists on all the workstations (though it may be aggravated by something in 10.5.7).  All our machines were running 10.5.5 when we switched to AE CS4.  The only thing that has helped relieve the problem is reserving a large amount of ram for the system in AE (at least 4GB).  I get the feeling that it has something to do with how AE manages memory combined with how it manages multiple processors. 

                                              • 21. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                Impulse Fire Level 1

                                                Hmm i am not going to lie here i have literally a pentium D @ 3.2 ghz with an ATI 3650 1 GB, 3 GB's RAM @ 600 MHZ (or sumthing around there) and 2 80 Gb hdd's in RAID 1.

                                                i have no idea why but my HD renders go actually quite fast. i do mulitple 1080p renders in a single day (blu ray encoding) and for like a 30 second video it takes 10-20 minutes? that might be slow to your computers but to me its impressive considering my cpu is like 4 years old.

                                                maybe an upgrade to your GPU like a Radeon 4850  or 9800 gtx could really show improvements.

                                                the 8800 is like 3 years old dude its kinda time to upgrade. also another very helpful peice of hardware is an SSD drive.

                                                im not sure if they are compatible to go inside a mac but they sure work for a pc.

                                                i have another pc (currently still building it) and it has an SSD drive the write and read speeds are insane like 3x as much as a normal disk drive.

                                                so that can also have a MAJOR improvement on your render times.

                                                finally the last tip i can offer is to set up your SSD drives or regular hard drives in a RAID array like RAID 10,5,1,0 those also give speed boosts

                                                 

                                                EDIT: Probably should have mentioned i dont experience any lag i just watch youtube videos until its done and everything loads at great speeds

                                                i also use Vista 32 bit

                                                • 22. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                  cspecter Level 1

                                                  I don't know how complex your comps are, but our are usually pretty complex.  Simple comps with just text and 1-2 layers of video usually go pretty quick, but as soon as you ramp up complexity it slows way down.  I somehow don't think that our graphics card is the problem.  Most of the plugins we use do not see any benefit from OpenGL and we don't use that many 3D layers.  In general we haven't seen a big boost in AE performance with OpenGL on or off.  All our footage sits on a super fast Terrablock system with at least 300-400mb/s sequential read speeds.  Then again it could be that AE just runs poorly on Macs.

                                                   

                                                  Adolfo - we have done some quite extensive benchmarks with all our machines here.  Configuring both 10GB and 16GB versions (we have not tried higher memory yet).  We tested the same comp in both CS3 and CS$ with various multiprocessor settings.  Our test file's complexity was indicative of the kind of projects we do.  Around 30 layers, a mix of TGA sequences with alpha, QuickTimes with alpha (animation) and ProRes footage.  Many layers with ReelSmart Motion Blur.  A Knoll Light Factory lens flare.  A mix of layers with various blurs and color correction and some transfer modes.

                                                   

                                                  As you can see CS3 was much, much quicker at rendering the project.  In some cases almost twice as fast as CS4.  Also, strangely CS3 ran better limited to 4 processors in both the 10GB and 16GB configurations. 

                                                   

                                                  Benchmark Test File

                                                   

                                                  CS3 Benchmarks

                                                   

                                                  [note - CS3 has no options in the app for adjusting multi-processor settings.  All edits had to be made in the pref file.]

                                                   

                                                  10GB System -----------------

                                                   

                                                  AE CS3

                                                  10GB

                                                  4 Processors

                                                  12m 43s

                                                  [note - This was the most optimized setting for CS3 which gave the best performance for us.]

                                                   

                                                  AE CS3

                                                  10BG

                                                  8 Processors

                                                  24m 8s

                                                  [note - Default setting in AE CS3 for multiprocessor.  System is completely unusable during render.]

                                                   

                                                  16GB System -----------------

                                                   

                                                  AE CS3

                                                  16GB

                                                  4 Processors

                                                  11m 54s

                                                  [note - This was the optimized setting for CS3 which gave the best performance.  Each instance of the program was using 150-180 CPU in the activity monitor so it must be using more that 4 processors with this setting.  Each processor used more memory than in the 10GB config.]

                                                   

                                                  AE CS3

                                                  16GB

                                                  7 Processors

                                                  16m 15s

                                                   

                                                  AE CS3

                                                  16BG

                                                  8 Processors

                                                  20m 13s

                                                  [note - Default setting in AE CS3 for multiprocessor.  System is completely unusable during render.]

                                                   

                                                  CS4 Benchmarks

                                                   

                                                  In general CS4 is about half the speed of an optimized CS3.  Going from 10GB to 16GB of memory gained us about 33% performance increase in the most optimized setting (4-6 processors at 2GB+ per processor).

                                                   

                                                  10GB System -----------------

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  10GB total RAM

                                                  8GB reserved for AE (2GB reserved for OS)

                                                  3 Processors (2GB per processor)

                                                  24m 7s

                                                  [note - Computer response pretty slow]

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  10GB total RAM

                                                  8GB reserved for AE (2GB reserved for OS)

                                                  7 Processors (.9GB per processor)

                                                  28m 10s

                                                  [note - Computer completely unusable while rendering]

                                                   

                                                  16GB System -----------------

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  16GB total RAM

                                                  8GB reserved for AE (8GB reserved for OS)

                                                  3 Processors (2GB per processor)

                                                  22m 57s

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  16GB total RAM

                                                  13GB reserved for AE (3GB reserved for OS)

                                                  4 Processors (2.33+ GB per processor)

                                                  18m 7s

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  16GB total RAM

                                                  13GB reserved for AE (3GB reserved for OS)

                                                  6 Processors (2.09 GB/Processor)

                                                  19m 1s

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  16GB total RAM

                                                  14GB reserved for AE (2GB reserved for OS)

                                                  7 Processors (1.85GB/Processor)

                                                  23m 4s

                                                  [note - This config made system very slow, left very little memory for the system.]

                                                   

                                                  AE CS4

                                                  16GB total RAM

                                                  13GB reserved for AE (3GB reserved for OS)

                                                  7 Processors (1.59GB/Processor)

                                                  25m 50s

                                                  • 23. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                    ChrisProsser Adobe Employee

                                                    Hi cspecter,

                                                     

                                                    I'm sorry CS4 has been causing you so many problems. It sounds like you already found a workaround, significantly increasing the headroom.

                                                     

                                                    After Effects tries to keep track of the amount of memory in use by the program. Due to a bug in an older version of the MacOS, AE isn't able to query the OS directly for the amount of memory that is currently in use by the product. Instead, all plugins, file format modules, and internal code need to keep the main program informed as to how much they are using. It sounds like something in your project has encountered a significant bug where large amounts of memory are getting used by something, but not being reported to the memory tracking system. This causes AE to use too much memory for its' image caches and forces your system to swap.

                                                     

                                                    When you start to get slow downs, you can do a Purge All (or Purge Image Caches) and that should help temporarily.

                                                     

                                                    Please work with Adolfo to get him the project as this isn't a known issue and our existing test suites are not exposing it.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for your patience,

                                                     

                                                    Chris Prosser

                                                    • 24. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                      Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                                      Chad: Is this still the same project you sent me, or a different one?

                                                      • 25. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                        cspecter Level 1

                                                        It's a different one.  Not part of a project, though all the layers and

                                                        effects are from that earlier file.  I've attached

                                                        the project files so you can take a look.

                                                        • 26. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                          cspecter Level 1

                                                          An additional note.  The memory leak must be pretty easy to hit.  Since we did those benchmarks we went back to some of our old CS3 projects to test them in both CS3 and CS4.  Every single project, except for very simple ones with just some text over video, rendered slower on CS4.  Sometimes it was only by a little bit (5-10%), sometimes by a lot like the benchmarking file we came up with (over 50% slower), but always slower.  For whatever reason that one setting we used on CS3 was very quick (as per the benchmarks), 4 processors on an 8 processor machine, though according to the Activity Monitor it looks like each aeselflink was using more than a single CPU's worth of power for some reason.  In CS3 each aeselflink would constantly be at 100-150+ in CPU during the whole render.  In CS4 it was often the case where one aeselflink would be running around 75 and the other numbers would be at 0-20 with erratic spurts like each instance was not continuously rendering.

                                                           

                                                          Also, in case you were wondering, we ran each of those benchmark tests after a clean reboot, just to make sure that there was no other residual memory weirdness.  

                                                          • 27. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                            Impulse Fire Level 1

                                                            Man lots of answers but to cspecter (or who ever said they dont know if use complex comps)

                                                            im not sure what you mean by "complex" on one project i had like 8 3d layers and 10 video clips and that took a good 45-1hr to render but then again my computer is very old and slow. So i dont know my friend has a mac and he also has AAE he has a mac pro dual nehalems and 8 gigs of ram and his computer runs it very incredibley fast. im not excactly sure if he uses 10.5,10.4 or which one but seems not to have a problem.

                                                            last suggestion i can offer is to sweet talk your mac and polish his disk drives maybe that will help. (did for my pc haha lol)

                                                            • 28. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                              Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                                              Chad: Unfortunately, attaching projects here still has a few quirks. If you don't change the extension, it won't go through, If you do change it (say. add ".txt" after ",aep"), the system will take it but may stay queued for days. As much as I favor posting things openly for everyone to test, in this case please send it to my e-mail address.

                                                              • 29. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                                EchoOut Level 1

                                                                Along the lines of what a few have said here, I'm experiencing very similar issues and it most definitely seems like a memory leak. I'm working on a promo for a video game company showing off various source footage in 720p with some 2.5d going on and also a title logo bumper that will display at the beginning of their games with lots of footage, particles, track mattes,etc. in 720p.

                                                                 

                                                                I have been working at home using my early-2008 MacPro 8-core with 16GB of RAM  and a 5TB eSATA RAID and then doing final tweaks at their office using my late 2008 MacBook Pro Core2 Duo with 4GB of RAM and the footage on the 5200RPM system drive. Both machines are using 10.5.7 and 9.0.2.

                                                                 

                                                                Honestly, AE CS4 runs better on the laptop in terms of UI lag, pinwheels, etc. (AE won't even shut down on my desktop if it has been opened for a long time) and the render times and RAM Previewing honestly seem almost as fast on the laptop. That's pretty shocking to me. Under CS3, my desktop decimated my laptop. Bummer!

                                                                • 30. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                                  Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee

                                                                  EchoOut, this is the problem with mega threads. People would chime in and say "me too", and actually there could be very different issues.

                                                                  The problem described by Chad (for example) doesn't nearly imply that a Mac Pro render times are anywhere close to a Macbook Pro laptop. If I recall correctly, he's getting 10-15 per cent slower rendering than in CS3, which would still be many times faster than a Macbook Pro. Additionally, he feels the computer becomes unresponsive in terms of using applications while After Effects is rendering.

                                                                  This is different from a perception of UI slowdown, beachballs, etc. Feel free to start a new thread about this, if you want.

                                                                  • 31. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                                    EchoOut Level 1

                                                                    Actually, I thought I was adding to the idea that there are issues with CS4 handling more cores and the memory associated with each core. My MacBook Pro having a significantly simpler setup in terms of the processor/memory relationship and running so well/rendering similar times makes me think the issues I'm having on my desktop are due to memory management. The only reason I mentioned my benchmarking of the exact same project on a MP vs. MBP was to illustrate the memory management discrepancies that weren't present in previous versions. Everything I wrote about was in response to the memory-related issues previously stated in this thread.

                                                                     

                                                                    Is there not a relationship between beach balls and responsiveness?

                                                                     

                                                                    Sorry I chimed in. What's happened to this place?

                                                                    • 32. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                                      Adolfo Rozenfeld Adobe Employee
                                                                      Sorry I chimed in. What's happened to this place?

                                                                       

                                                                      Oh, I am sorry if that came across differently as I intended.

                                                                      You didn't do anything wrong, on the contrary.

                                                                      I am working with the original posters to isolate some issues specific to their projects/configuration. We were trying to see why Chad is needing to set the memory free for other applications to unusually high levels, for instance, which is not typical.

                                                                      That's why I invited you to start a new thread with the specifics for your case. Beach balls and UI slowness are not usually related directly to MP, although they can be related indirectly. It can happen for a million reasons. So it's worth discussing the details separately. I hope you now see what my intention was.

                                                                      Please do chime in. I only asked not to assume it's the same issue. There are a million reasons why a render can not go faster with MP, and most of them are not bugs (Examples: effects that disable MP completely, projects that are more I/O intensive than CPU intensive, etc.).

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      Is there not a relationship between beach balls and responsiveness?

                                                                       

                                                                      Of course, but this was more about responsiveness in other applications while rendering, and also about clear but relatively mild increments in render times compared to the previous version.

                                                                      • 33. Re: AE CS4 on OSX 10.5 Very Slow, Makes System Unresponsive
                                                                        patterntangle

                                                                        I'm on a first generation imac with only 2gig of ram. I noticed system slow ups running after effects CS3 and leopard, I don't think it was as bad with tiger. Anyway, I've recently installed Snow Leopard and it's now a joke. Running after effects means trying to open firefox could take almost a minute. typing can take 3 seconds per letter. switching apps can take half a minute.

                                                                         

                                                                        EDIT: ignore me, I'm an idiot - setting my memory cache to something much lower in afx prefs dramtatically improved things.