10 Replies Latest reply on Jun 29, 2009 7:49 AM by the_wine_snob

    Is this normal???

    Ryan_Hurley

      When I open a project that has even a modest amount of edits, it takes a long time to load. As it's loading, dozens of tiny red and blue logos stack up on the lower Windows toolbar (screenshot linked here). When the project has a large amount of edits, it can take forever to load.

       

      Can I tweak a setting to prevent this, or is it normal?

       

      Any advice is much appreciated.

        • 1. Re: Is this normal???
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Ryan,

           

          The main task in loading a Project is the locating of the files referenced in the Project. The number of edits is down the list.

           

          I looked at the logos and initially thought that these were FFDshow logos. Upon magnification, they appear to be FFv, and I do not recognize that logo. The only thing that Google turned up was FFView (FeedFaceView), which is a Mac OS utility to speed up PreFectch. You are on Windows, so that program does not seem a likely candidate.

           

          It's common for either an editor or a player to have to rely on other programs, or Processes to handle some AV files. I get similar, when I play a file encoded with DivX - a DivX logo appears in the Taskbar. Same for when I will use Bridge (Organizer's big brother) to catalog a folder with a lot of DivX encoded files. The DivX logo pops us as each of these files is processed.

           

          In this case, I'd guess that similar is happening. I see that your Video Assets are .AVI. What is inside the .AVI "wrapper?" The freeware program, G-Spot will tell you, if you did not Capture these files over FireWire via PE. That might give us a clue. What are your main Assets?

           

          You can also take a look at your Task Manager's Processes tab, after you have loaded your Project, to see if you have some process that might have an FFv logo to it. However, sometimes Processeses' names do not bear any relationship to the actual program's name.

           

          I'd say that these are indictions that some sort of media "handler," is working on your Assets, either Audio or Video. Which one? Unless you've found a way to install a Mac-only version of FeedFaceViewer, I haven't a clue.

           

          Though not a direct benchmark for you, I have an 8 hour Project with about 1000 Assets, that loads from a FW-800 external drive into PrPro in about 1.25 mins.

           

          Unless you have your Assets scattered all over your system, and/or a very slow system, especially in the I/O department (HDD's), yours should not take nearly so long, unless something else is having to be called into play. Maybe someone else will recognize the FFv logo and can help.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

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          • 2. Re: Is this normal???
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            I agree with Hunt. These are not DV-AVIs but are AVIs using some other codec. Possibly from a still camera that shoots video?

             

            If so, you can use Windows MovieMaker to convert the files, per the FAQs to the right of this forum.

            http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0

             

            This should not only remedy your problem, but you should also see a significant boost in the program's performance all around.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Is this normal???
              Paul_LS Level 4

              Definately not normal.. are you using Foto2avi???

              • 4. Re: Is this normal???
                Ryan_Hurley Level 1

                Hunt, Steve and Paul, thanks for your responses. I wish I could respond as intelligently as you folks, but I'm afraid I'm a newbie at all this.

                 

                What I can tell you is that the files I'm working with are .avi that I've either captured using a Flip Ultra, or that I've swiped off YouTube and converted from flash to .avi using a program called Prism Video converter.

                 

                Right now I am editing a roughly 5-minute video that has about... oh, let me see here... maybe 3-dozen edits (cuts, overlays, titles, etc.), and right now Premiere is unable to render the workspace. "Error compiling movie. Out of memory." which I suspect is owing to these weird FFv files (or whatever they are) that stack up by the dozen on my tool bar whenever I load a project of any size.

                 

                This seems to happen every time: The more edits I make, the more of these little FFv symbols stack up, and before long Premiere is on its knees.

                 

                I am running 4G of DDR2 1066 RAM, and my processor is the Intel e7400 2.8G Dual Core Duo 1066 FSB.

                 

                Thanks again for any advice you can offer. Hunt and Steve, I have not attempted your fixes yet... still trying to polish off this project -- if it will let me!

                • 5. Re: Is this normal???
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  First, I'd use G-Spot to give you all details on your Flip Videos. Not sure what CODEC your program outputs to. Chances are good that you can either use another setting, or can convert these to something that PE can work with in a native state.

                   

                  I'm not familiar with Prism, but many give it high marks. What settings did you use, when you did the conversion?

                   

                  Your issues, including the Out Of Memory are most likely due to your Assets. PE and your system are having to struggle to convert these internally to something that will work perfectly in your program. I'd definitely say that the logos are indicative that another progam is having to be invoked, just to handle this media.

                   

                  One thing that you might wish to consider, should you do a lot of work with the FLV format is Moyea's FLV Plug-in. I know that it works great in PrPro, but you might need to read on it a bit, to make sure that it works with PE.

                   

                  Altering your workflow will definitely improve things all the way round. Also, see the FAQ ARTICLE on working with Flip material.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Is this normal???
                    Paul_LS Level 4

                    How about Foto2avi, do you have it on your computer?

                    • 7. Re: Is this normal???
                      Ryan_Hurley Level 1

                      A little more information: When I hover the mouse over the FFv (red) and FFa (blue) icons that, as mentioned, appear in my lower Windows toolbar whenever I import and edit .avi's in Elements, a dialog box indicates that the underlying program is "ffdshow video decoder" and "ffdshow audio decoder", respectively.

                       

                      According to Wikipedia, this is a media decoder (I know, big surprise).

                       

                      My first thought was to remove these decoders, going on the theory that: 1) they're what's making Elements run sluggishly; and 2) once removed, Elements will default to a less-memory-intensive means of dealing with these .avi's.

                       

                      But when I try to add/remove programs in Windows, these codecs are nowhere to be found. Nor, apparently, is foto2avi.

                       

                      Finally, Wine Snob, I went to the Gspot Codec Information Appliance, but can't make heads or tails out of any of it. I tried to screenshot the relevant results.

                       

                      Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions as I muddle my way through this.

                      • 8. Re: Is this normal???
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        FFDShow is basically a decoder (as you found out). It supplements the Windows Direct Show function. It is commonly installed along with other utilities and CODEC's, when one installs something like K-Lite (a CODEC "pack"). Going back many versions, Premiere used to use Direct Show for display. This was replaced at about Pr 5.0, with Adobe's own display decoder. Do not know the timeframe for PrElements.

                         

                        Since both flavors of Premiere (Pro & Elements) do not rely on Direct Show, FFDShow is not needed. It has been known to cause major problems in PrPro. There might be material that would require it, but it should not be necessary in any newer version of Pr.

                         

                        You can probably find its installation in some CODEC pack that you installed. I am not a fan of any CODEC pack, as there seem to be more problems, than fixes. For CODEC's, I strongly recommend that one only install the ones needed, and I also recommend acquiring these from the source. I look to find the developer of any CODEC and download, or buy, from that source. The free versions are often hacked, or reverse-engineered versions of the real thing, and often do not perform as well, plus can cause issues.

                         

                        What happens with FFDShow is that an instance of it is loaded for each and every Clip that it thinks it should handle. This causes unnecessary strain on system resources, as you have found out. If you were to open up Task Manager Processes, you'd see many instances of this program running.

                         

                        Now, if you did not install any CODEC packs, there must be some other way that FFDShow has gotten onto your system. I am not an expert in it, but would assume that some sort of "helper" is installed for it, every time you boot your computer. This might be identifiable when looking at Startup, Boot.INI, and Services in MSCONFIG. However, the name might be so obscure, that you might have to research to find it. If there is a "helper" or even an FFDShow listing in any of the tabs in MSCONFIG, I'd uncheck them, reboot and test the system. You'll get a dialog screen, upon boot, that will point out that you have made a change in MSCONFIG, and ask you if you wish to continue. One can check a little box at the bottom to "Not Show This Screen Again," but I would not do that yet. You want to test your system and your NLE, without FFDShow to make sure that everything works. I wish that I could point you to the exact entry to look for, but cannot. Maybe someone with more knowledge of FFDShow can help you.

                         

                        Back to CODEC packs for a moment. Most will install, by default, all sorts of "stuff," and little of it (with the exception of G-Spot and another utility or two) is of real use. Some even install key-loggers and other ad-ware/malware. For an article on CODEC "packs," see John T. Smith's entry in the Adobe Encore DVD Lounge.

                         

                        Some folk on the PrPro fora have had such problems with CODEC packs, that they have had to completely reformat their HDD's and reinstall everything from the OS up. It also seems that FFDShow is tough to get rid of, but I'd try the MSCONFIG route first. One's system should run fine, and all later versions of Pr should display perfectly without it. If one does find that program, or a helper for it, in the Startup, or other, section of MSCONFIG, and the system and Pr runs/displays fine without it, then they can check the "Do Not Show... " box in the bootup dialog screen. The editing process should be much smoother without it.

                         

                        There could also be some form of control in maybe the File Type associations in Control Panel, that would remove any associations to FFDShow. I would suggest that one look there, and see what file types might be associated with it, if any are shown. If you find some, re-associate to the proper player, or display program, and see if this works.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Is this normal???
                          Ryan_Hurley Level 1

                          Wine Snob, thanks again for your help. Slowly but surely I think I'm figuring this thing out, but have stumbled on a problem. Acting on your advice that codecs = evil, I went into the Control Panel and searched for anything with the word "codec" in it. A-ha: Something called "K-lite codec" pack. So I removed it.

                           

                          Now, when I import .avi's into Elements, it imports only the audio. What's weird is that in the "Organize" tab, the .avi's retain the .avi file extension, and I even see a thumbnail image for the file. But when I drag/drop onto the timeline, only the audio appears. FWIW, the audio is perfectly fine, but nothing appears on the accompanying video track.

                          • 10. Re: Is this normal???
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            Ryan,

                             

                            I do not want to give the wrong impression. CODEC's are very necessary to doing anything with NLE work. Almost everything has some reliance on CODEC's. They are a fact of life. Most work perfectly. I am less a fan of CODEC "packs," as many have had issues with some of these. OTOH, many have installed the K-Lite CODEC Pack, and have had nothing but good luck with it. If this were not the case, then folk like Steve Grisetti would not recommend it in many cases. I take a different stance, and only install the exact CODEC's that I need, one at a time. While I've never had a problem, I do see so many, for whom, CODEC packs wreck one's system. It's from their issues, that I take my warning.

                             

                            Now, the likely reason for the problems with the .AVI files is because an AVI can contain so very much and in all kinds of forms. For a bit of a background, see this ARTICLE from the Tips & Tricks sub-forum. It does not cover every possibility, and cannot, as new schemes and CODEC's are being introduced at least quarterly. Add to that, the possibilities of so many archaic CODEC's, that most people have forgotten, and the potential is infinite.

                             

                            I'll bet that G-Spot can tell you everything that you need to know about your AVI files. Give it a go, and please report what it tells you. Someone will know exactly what you need to do to work with those files. This little utility is a must-have, unless one ONLY works with AV files that are Captured via PE (or Pro) via FireWire from a miniDV tape. I probably use my copy about 2x/week.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt