22 Replies Latest reply on Apr 16, 2010 4:09 PM by the_wine_snob

    How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?

    Wayne.C1972

      Can someone explain to me the correct/best workflow for taking HD footage, editing that footage in SD then outputting final project in HD for Blueray Disc?

        • 1. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Why edit in SD to start with? Best results are achieved if you edit in the same format your source is in, so HD.

          • 2. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
            Wayne.C1972 Level 1

            Its easier to edit in SD. I have AVCHD footage. I also have a RT.X2. If I can edit project in SD editing would go much smoother then AVCHD. Then when done editing I could have the edit reference my AVCHD clips output wouldn't that make for smoother editing? I just want to use the SD footage as like reference, but have the HD footage for final master.

            • 3. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
              Dan Isaacs Level 2

              I'm not sure how well Premiere handles such "proxy editing" with different file formats, sequence dimensions, aspect ratios, etc.

               

              Since you have the RT.X2, could you not just convert the AVCHD files to Matrox HD MPEG2 I-frame .AVI files? Those should edit quite smoothly on your Matrox system, provided that your hard drives can keep up with the data rate.

              • 4. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Maybe you should have considered a better PC before buying an AVCHD camera or a Matrox card.

                • 5. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  I have to agree with Harm.  The best option here is a better PC.  There are methods of downconverting AVCHD, but none that I'm aware of are for use as offline files, where the SD version can easily be replaced by HD version for final rendering.  The problem that you may run into with that idea is the complicated (and quite asinine) use of a "folder structure" for solid state media, as opposed to the very easy to work with "single file per clip" that it could have been had camera makers had any communication at all with computer and video professionals.

                  • 6. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                    Wayne.C1972 Level 1

                    I was merely inquiring as to how "Proxy Editing" would or could be done with Premiere CS4. Its something I have never done but I am interested in trying. I have not found a "Proxy Editing" workflow for CS4 if one exist. Does it Exist?

                     

                    FYI:

                    My System

                     

                    Intel Quad Core Q6600 2.40GHz

                    8GB Ram

                    NVidia 9500GT 1Gb

                    Vista Ultimate x64 Sp2

                    Mirrored SCSI separate System and Preview Drives

                    RAID0 AV Media Storage and Asset Drives

                    • 7. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Although the Q6600 is a good CPU for HDV or DV, for AVCHD it is a bit too slow and underpowered for comfortable editing. Maybe serious tuning and optimizing can help a bit. You have a look at the Guide about optimizing Vista:

                      How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...

                       

                      I'm not aware of proxy editing capabilities in CS4 for AVCHD material.

                      • 8. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                        Powered by Design Level 4

                        That would be great if Adobe would build in proxy settings so formats like AVCHD could play like SD

                         

                        At least with a proxy once you are done it would just take longer to render.

                         

                        All I really want is for the timeline to play like SD.  Nice and smooth.

                         

                        Im not sure how doing color corection works with proxies.

                         

                        I was only learning about proxies awhile back when watching an AVID video.

                         

                        Its funnly how when computer get faster they come up with a bigger blotted editors.  Then camera makers come up with new formats that are hard on NLE systems.

                         

                        Its a never ending story.

                         

                        Enjoy:  Glenn

                        • 9. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Glenn,

                           

                          Its funnly how when computer get faster they come up with a bigger blotted editors.  Then camera makers come up with new formats that are hard on NLE systems.

                           

                          Its a never ending story.


                          We have only ourselves to blame for that, with our feature requests for new supported formats. In the old days things were so simple, you had DV in and out, plus a limited number of MPEG codecs for DVD etc. And still people do not understand that requesting DivX, xVid, Matroska, and a whole lot of other codecs will make it even more bloated, if Adobe listens.

                           

                          I really hope Adobe will not try to make it a 'Jack-of-all-trades' program, that supports a whole range of esoteric formats. Better improve the currently supported formats in terms of stability and performance and port the whole suite to 64 bit.

                          • 11. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7
                            In offline editing, after capturing high-quality clips, you make low-quality copies of them for editing purposes. After editing, you can unlink the clips in Adobe Premiere Pro from the low-quality media, and relink them to the high-quality originals. You can finish, render, and export your final product in high-quality. Editing the low-resolution clips allows standard computers to edit excessively large assets, such as HDV or HD footage, without losing performance speed. It also lets editors use laptop computers to edit—for example, while on location.

                             

                            Here is exactly the rub. The workflow with AVCHD may be sufficiently different from HDV to disallow offline editing. With a HDV camera you can downrez to SD before capturing, giving you the low-quality copies. But with AVCHD, is that possible with it's file and directory structure?

                            • 12. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                              Sjors V.

                              I wanted to do the same; edit my shots in lowres and do the final render in highres.

                              I allready started my Premiere Pro CS4 project in 1920x1080, but my computer gets very sluggish.

                              It seems Premiere hasn`t got a proxy system, but I figured out a workaround that works really good !!

                              My original footage was shot with a Sony XDCAM EX1 in full-HD, 1920x1080. The file extension is .MP4

                               

                              This is what I did:

                               

                              -With Adobe Media Encoder convert the original 1920x1080 .MP4 files to  1024x576 .MOV files, H264 compression, quality at 50%. (The new files are 14 times smaller !)

                              -Put the new .mov files in a new folder ( I called it Half_Low )

                              -Convert the original 1920x1080 .MP4 files to  1024x576 .MOV files, H264 compression, quality at 100%

                              -Put the new .mov files in a new folder ( I called it Half_High )

                              -Convert the original 1920x1080 .MP4 files to  1920x1080 .MOV files, H264 compression, quality at 100%

                              -Put the new .mov files in a new folder ( I called it Full_High )

                              -Make an extra folder, called `Exchange`

                              -Copy (don`t move !!!) the files from 'Half_Low' to `Exchange`

                              -Open the Premiere project file in Windows Wordpad.

                              -Search and replace all .MP4 with .MOV

                              -Search and replace all 1920,1080 with 1024,576

                              -Save the project file with a new name

                              -Open the new project in Premiere.

                              -Premiere will ask for the missing .MOV files; point it to the `Exchange` folder.

                               

                              The original full HD project is now in 1024x576, using the highly compressed files. Editing goes much faster now.

                              You can replace the files in `Exchange` with copies from `Half_High` if `Half_Low` isn`t good enough (for a test render for instance)

                              When the project is finished and you want to render in high res do the following:

                               

                              -Replace the files in `Exchange` with copies from the highres ones from `Full_High`

                              -Open the Premiere project file in Windows Wordpad.

                              -Search and replace  all 1024,576 with 1920,1080

                              -Save the project file with a new name

                              -Open the new project in Premiere.

                               

                              Presto!!

                              • 13. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                I wonder why you use that workflow, because EX footage works quite good without putting a heavy strain on your system. It edits much more nicely than for instance AVCHD material.

                                • 14. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                  Dennis_AandJ Level 1

                                  Hello Harm,

                                  Along the lines of this thread I would like to know what you think about this:  I shoot in DVCPROHD 720p 24p(n) solely for the future, I export to DVD for sale to the general public.  MY system is not up to the twelve disks that you have so editing in multi-camera is “difficult” at the moment.  I would like to know the best way to export or “change” the HD footage to a SD that I can edit with and still get the best quality for the DVD. 

                                  • 15. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                    I would like to know the best way to export or “change” the HD footage to a SD that I can edit with and still get the best quality for the DVD. 

                                     

                                    I have tutorials that cover 2 different methods; one is all-CS4 and the other uses open-source tools.

                                     

                                    BDVS Tutorials

                                     

                                    -Jeff

                                    • 16. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Dennis,

                                       

                                      Despite the "difficulty" of editing multi-cam now, I would keep it in DVCProHD 720, because then you can later encode to BRD without effort. I'm not familiar with P2 material to tell you how to downrez in camera or even later, but doing that will entail a whole new multi-cam edit in HD resolution if you want a BRD at some moment in the future.

                                      • 17. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                        sync2rhythm Level 1

                                        I was told about a wierd workflow where The Editor transcodes all of his HD material to DV.

                                        He edits his DV material in a SD timeline.

                                        He said when he is satisfied with the edit he creates a new HD timeline where he Copy/Paste the DV material.

                                        He then Offlines all of his DV footage in the HD timeline and RePlaces/ReLinks it to the HD material.

                                         

                                        I wasn't able to see the process but he said it works.

                                        (I did notice he had 2 folders - HD & SD)

                                        Sounds logical that if the file names are the same it would simply link to the HD clips.

                                        I guess as long as you have a good DP you wouldn't have to do much Color Correction... which is the only problem I see with editing any type of intermediate - are you seeing what you'll be outputting, ya know?

                                         

                                        I haven't tried this workflow so if you do try it, I would suggest that you take precaution not to lose your project/work/client.

                                        -Also, report back and let us know if it works!

                                        • 18. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Here's an ARTICLE on proxy editing in PrElements. Might be interesting.

                                           

                                          Good luck,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 19. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                            Dennis_AandJ Level 1

                                             

                                             

                                            Jeff thanks for the site link, another late night I see.

                                             

                                            I hear you Harm, the reality is that these technical training videos will need updating before too long and there are no plans to go to BRD in the foreseeable future but because the equipment lasts we want the HD for when we do.

                                            sync2rhythm I read that one and it sounds like it will work, I have re-linked footage quite easily in the past.
                                            Hey Bill was PrElements a past version of PPro or something different altogether?  I have only been using PPro for a year and a half so I don’t know much history.

                                            • 20. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              PrE was a stripped-down "Premiere Light" program, targeting the hobbyist. Over the years, it has grown, and has benefited from the "hand-me-downs" of PrPro. However, there have been some "hand-me-ups," like AVCHD editing and also VOB Import, which hit PrE much earlier, than PrPro.

                                               

                                              The general "guts" of the programs have strong similarities. The implementation of the various features, though, is much different - totally different markets. I have to translate between PrE and PrPro, but it's not THAT tough, as most of the basics affect each program the same - the method of addressing issues can differ though. Also, IMHO, the total editing experience is much better in PrPro.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 21. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                                sync2rhythm Level 1

                                                Slick ARTICLE.

                                                Sounds a lot like the workflow that I mentioned above... and it seems to work for him on 'Reality TV' projects that
                                                easily have at least 24hrs worth of footage to be cut down into 26min episodes.

                                                Once again: I have NOT used this workflow so I can't vouch for it first handidly.

                                                • 22. Re: How to edit HD footage in sd then output final product in HD?
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  I have not had need to use Ozpeter's workflow, but it has worked very well for many. That is why I linked to it, though it was written with PrE directly in mind. Many things will work fine in either PrE, or PrPro, though the user might need to interpolate things a bit. Heck, I still link to old Pr 6.0 tutorials, when users have CS4, or PrE 8. With just a bit of reading-between-the-lines, one can use those, to do the same thing in the current versions.

                                                   

                                                  Have not heard of a CS4 user doing the proxy editing, per Ozpeter's suggestions, but I can't see why they would not work, with just a few changes.

                                                   

                                                  Hunt