1 2 Previous Next 46 Replies Latest reply on Dec 2, 2010 4:23 AM by Vinay Kankipati

    Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8

    SarahVanFleet Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I have recently upgraded to RH8 and now my list styles are behaving oddly.

       

      Prior to this, I could select a bulleted list style from the styles at the top left of the RoboHelp window and apply the list style to the text.

       

      Now when I try to do that, the bulleted list becomes a numbered list.

       

      To apply the bulleted list, I have to open the styles pod, select the list styles, then double-click on the list style to apply it to the new text.

       

      Is there any way to tweak RoboHelp 8 so that I can use the drop-down field at the top left of the RoboHelp window to apply a bulleted list style?

       

      Thanks,

       

      Sarah

        • 1. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
          RoboHobo Level 1

          Hi Sarah - we've seen the same issue. Our style sheet entries for bullets looks like this:

          P.BulletList {
          margin-top: 0pt;
          margin-bottom: 4.5pt;
          list-style: disc;
          }

          LI.P-BulletList {
          list-style: disc;
          }

           

          Though it is available in the styles drop-down, as you say, in RH8, its selection now creates a numbered list, until you follow up with a double-click on the list style in the styles pod. We need to apply both to get the desired spacing between bullets. In RH7, it all worked quite nicely from the drop-down.

           

          I'll post back if we find out what the issue is.

          • 2. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
            Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

            I could be way wrong here but in HTML what defines a list a being ordered (numbered) or unordered (bulleted) is the use of OL and UL tags. You are using the P tag instead. Sure the reference to disc implies you want an unordered list but implication doesn't work.

             

            I suspect what you need is a UL tag with a class.

             

            http://www.w3schools.com is a good place to learn more.

             

            Any HTML gurus out there, please feel free to jump on this and correct it.

             


            See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

            • 3. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
              Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Hi,

               

              Peter, you're right. A paragraph with a list-style is not a list. If you define a bullit-style for a paragraph, you overwrite the style of the list and although the list style should not overwrite the paragraph style, your code is invalid.

               

              @RoboHobo: How many kind (bulleted, numbered, multi level, etc) of lists do you use? The way to solve this depends on the way you work: Do you only select the paragraph, or do you create a list and then select the paragraph.

               

              I would recommend removing the list-style definition from your two styles and instead use the styles ul {list-style-type: disc} and ol {list-style-type: decimal} instead. When you use different list styles, this may seriously mess up your existing lists.

               

              If you want to keep working the way you do, add Your style definition will look like this:

               

              P.BulletList {
              margin-top: 0pt;
              margin-bottom: 4.5pt;
              list-style: disc;
              }

              LI.P-BulletList {
              list-style: disc;
              }

               

              Greet,

               

              Willam

              • 4. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                dsarig Level 1

                In RH8 I tried all of the suggested solutions, but wasn't able to make the numbered list work. The styles that I am having problems with in my css are: BULLET and BULTIN.

                I was hoping that someone would be willing to post a sample css that works for them.

                I am also attaching my original css if anyone would be willing to take a look.

                 

                Thanks in advance,

                Debbie

                • 5. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                  Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Hi,

                   

                  I'll take a look when you're css is accessible on the forum. Can you also attach a topic where you have problems?

                   

                  Greet,

                   

                  Willam

                  • 6. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                    Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                    Debbie

                     

                    There is nothing attached or queued.

                     


                    See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                    • 7. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                      dsarig Level 1

                      I am trying to send the document again.

                      I am also attaching a topic where the problem can be seen. The first two lines I have applied the "BULLET" style from the drop-down list and it appears as a numbered list. Further down in the topic you can see a bulleted list where I seleted the "BULLET" style and then clicked the bullet icon. This appears now as it should. But, I'd like to avoid the extra step.

                      • 8. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                        Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Hi,

                         

                        There are no files attached. When you add a comment, use the Attach Files button below the text field.

                        Capture1.png


                        Greet,

                         

                        Willam

                        • 9. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                          dsarig Level 1

                          Both times I clicked the "Browse" button, selected the files and then clicked "Post Message". But, I guess it didn't work.

                          • 10. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                            Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Hi,

                             

                            I've send my e-mail adress in a private message. Please e-mail the files.

                             

                            Greet,

                             

                            Willam

                            • 11. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                              Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Hi again,

                               

                              I devised an easy solution that worked for dsarig, and I think it will work for anyone who has the same problem.

                               

                              The problem:

                              This problem is not the fault of Robohelp, but is a problem arising for the conversion from html to xhtml and the wrong use of lists. When you don't create a list by clicking one of the list buttons, but select a paragraph style with a bullit, RoboHelp automatically creates an ordenened list. This was no problem in RoboHelp 7, because the paragraph style could overwrite the list style. RoboHelp 8 uses xhtml and xhtml is much stricter than html. This means that a paragraph list style can no longer overwrite a list style. You can however overwrite the list style with a list item style.

                               

                              The workaround:

                              Say that you have the classes P.BULLET and LI.P-BULLET, both define a list style. Whenever you choose the paragraph class P.BULLET (without first clicking the list button), RoboHelp creates the following HTML code:

                                   <ol>

                                        <li><p class="BULLET">Your text</p></li>

                                   </ol>

                               

                              This list is not a unordened list, but an ordened list that uses numbers. The paragraph class can no longer overwrite the list style. You can solve this by adding the following code to the class LI-P-BULLET:

                               

                              LI.P-BULLET { list-style-type: disc !important; }

                               

                              This will give any list element with the class P-BULLET a standard bullet. To make all your lists work again, use a find and replace tool to replace

                                   <li><p class="BULLET"> with:

                                   <li class="P-BULLET"><p class="BULLET">


                              This will fix any problems, but it is not a solution, since it doesn't change the list itself.

                               

                              The solution:

                              Stop using paragraphs as lists! Using paragraphs as lists will probably cause problems in the future when RoboHelp starts using HTML 5 or the next version of XHTML.

                               

                              These two ways of working will help avoid problems in the future:

                              - Create multi-level list styles, these lists give you the best styling options. Use these lists instead and replace (if you can) all faulty lists by new ones.

                              - Create list classes for every list you use and applay classes to lists using the HTML editor. (ul.list1 {} will be <ul class="list1"> and ol.number {} will be <ol class="numbers"> (The best solution, but it requires more work.)

                               

                              Greets,

                               

                              Willam

                              • 12. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                notv4me Level 1

                                Hello William (or any other kind soul out there!) -

                                 

                                I appreciate your expertise in RH8, this is the exact problem we are having with our upgrade from x5 to 8:

                                 

                                "These two ways of working will help avoid problems in the future:

                                - Create multi-level list styles, these lists give you the best styling options. Use these lists instead and replace (if you can) all faulty lists by new ones.

                                - Create list classes for every list you use and apply classes to lists using the HTML editor. (ul.list1 {} will be <ul class="list1"> and ol.number {} will be <ol class="numbers"> (The best solution, but it requires more work.)"

                                 

                                I am not sure how to apply your solution. The styles that are giving me a problem on my attached css are:

                                 

                                • CGRoundBullet
                                • CGSquareBullet
                                • RRoundBullet
                                • RSquareBullet
                                • TableTextAlpha

                                 

                                The rest of the styles are fine, it's these that are coming out as numbers instead of bullets or lowercase letters. If you could edit just one of these, I should be able to mirror the others. I've spent probably 15 hours on this so far, so any assistance you can provide would help immensely!

                                 

                                Thanks

                                Warren

                                • 13. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                  Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                   

                                  Hi,

                                   

                                   

                                  From a glance in you CSS, my guess is that your problem is not in the style sheet. Please check the html of a faulty list. It probably has a paragraph class attached, but not a list class.  It probably looks something like this:

                                   

                                  <ol>

                                       <li><p class=CGRoundBullet>Your text<p></li>

                                  </ol>

                                   

                                  Since you haven't specified a list style within the list itself, or within the list item, the browser uses the default for an ordered list. To correct this, use a search and replace tool to replac all instances of <li><p class=CGRoundBullet> with <li class=p-CGRoundBullet><p class=CGRoundBullet>.

                                   

                                  You'll have to do this search and replace for every list style that is causing problems. Note that the correct list class is always p- followed by the exact paragraph name. If you want more help, please post back the html of a faulty list.

                                   

                                  Greet,

                                   

                                   

                                  Willam

                                  • 14. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                    Amebr Level 4

                                    The only way I've found to get this right is to manually define the font-family and font-size for my custom number and bullet lists.

                                     

                                    (assuming your html looks like <li class="p-style"><p class="style">)

                                     

                                    So given your P definition contains:

                                     

                                    font-family: Verdana;
                                    font-size: 10.0pt;

                                     

                                    I would add that to your numbered/alpha styles in both the p.style and li.p- versions.

                                    The bullets are more problematic, as they look different in Design, Preview and Output. I can't help with that so much, as I think you are implementing the multi-level numbering, which I rejected as too hard to fix manually in case of emergency (plus I can't get the hang of the dialog box, but other people haven't had a problem, so maybe it's just me).

                                     

                                    I believe this is a bug in the conversion process, starting with RH7 - in old versions, the p.style and li.p- styles didn't need to be the same, as the li.p- seemed to inherit a lot from the p.style.

                                     

                                    HTH,

                                    Amebr

                                    • 15. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                      Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Hi,

                                       

                                      The font-family and font-size control the font and the font size. To control the list style, you need list-style-type. You only have to define this with the list itself (ol and ul), of with the list item (li). Defining the list-style-type for a paragrapgh won't do anything in xhtml (robo8).

                                       

                                      Greet,

                                       

                                      Willam

                                      • 16. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                        notv4me Level 1

                                        Hi William,

                                         

                                        Thanks for the quick response! I came to the same conclusion as you regarding the missing class in the HTML code, but the find and replace option isn't going to really help. My project has over 3200 topics and while the find and replace could make those changes fairly quickly, it doesn't address these lists going forward rather than manually adding this each and every time, which really defeats the purpose of having a list!

                                         

                                        There has to be something that takes the style sheet and applies it to the list choices you are making in the topics. It seems as though the li class is missing when bullets are chosen and I don't know how to tell RoboHelp to add that when a bullet is selected.

                                         

                                        Here is an example of a CGSquareBullet I added to an existing topic:

                                         

                                        1.  

                                         

                                        And instead of showing up like a bullet, it appears as a 1.

                                         

                                        Anything else you can think of to get around this?

                                         

                                        Warren- 221-3210

                                        Senior Communications Support Specialist

                                        • 17. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                          Amebr Level 4

                                          Oops. You're right. Long day and my brain translated it into my own frustration of wrong font and size.

                                          • 18. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                            Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Hi,

                                             

                                            Can you post a topic with such a list. If I see the topic, I may be able to come up with a solution.

                                             

                                            Greet,

                                             

                                            Willam

                                            • 19. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                              Amebr Level 4

                                              I've finally gotten my RH8 bullets and numbering dissertation sorted. :)

                                               

                                              The way I see it, there are three methods of applying styles in Robohelp HTML 7 & 8.

                                               

                                              Assumptions

                                              - This is specifically for HTML list styles. See the Robohelp help topic "About list styles" for as close to a definition as I could find.

                                              It excludes advanced (multi-level) lists and autonumbered (paragraph) lists.

                                              - You are upgrading a project from a Robohelp version RH6 or below. (Possibly also RH7, but I haven't tried this properly yet.)

                                               

                                               

                                              1. Style drop-down list only.

                                              This is the method used to apply styles in older versions of RH, except that the code produced in older versions is like that produced in method 3 below.

                                              This list displays only Paragraph and Character Styles.

                                              It produces code like:

                                              <li><p class="ab_para">My text

                                               

                                              2. Styles Pod.

                                              This method allows you select the type of style you want to apply, for example, List, Character, multi-level list, etc, and is applied using a double-click.

                                              It produces code like:

                                              <li class="p-ab_list">My text

                                               

                                              3. Style drop-down list and Styles Pod.

                                              This method requires two actions to apply a style to lists and produces code like:

                                              <li class="p-ab_listandpara" type="A"><p class="ab_listandpara">My text

                                              This is essentially the code produced by older versions of RH.

                                               

                                               

                                              As Method 1 above is not a valid implementation of HTML lists, a change of work practice is required when moving to RH7 or 8. I could think of 3 methods, depending on your requirements.

                                               

                                              1. Change to using the Styles pod to apply number and bullet styles.

                                              a. The li.p- definition must be redefined to incorporate all the styling from the p definition.

                                              b. The p. definition must be removed.

                                              c. All topics must be edited to reset numbered and bulleted lists to Normal style (and in some cases, manually remove the numbering and bullets), then reapply the appropriate style using the Styles pod.

                                               

                                              2. Apply both the Drop-down list style and the Styles Pod list style.

                                              a. The font-family and font-size definition must be defined in both the p and li.p- definitions to ensure the text font and number/bullet font are the same size.

                                              b. Margin and padding definitions should not be changed, as this will cause the spacing to be applied twice.

                                              c. Apply number and bullet types using the drop-down list and then the List Styles area of the Styles pod. Or twice within the Styles pod - Paragraph and List.

                                               

                                              3. Combination of 1 and 2.

                                              a. Create new styles to replace your old number and bullet styles going forward. Create only the li.p- definitions and incorporate all the styling from the old p. definition. (Assuming the font and size will be the same for all lists, this could be defined in a separate OL, LI definition.)

                                              b. Update the old bullet and number styles so that the font-family and font-size are defined in both the p. and li.p- definitions.

                                              c. When creating new content, use the Styles pod to apply the list style.

                                              d. When modifying old content, you can either apply the styles as per 2c. above or reformat just the section you are working on, as per 1c. above.

                                              Using this method, old and new content should look the same, only the HTML behind the scenes will be different.

                                               

                                              I think that covers just about everything, except why I have excluded autonumbering and multi-level lists. Let me know if there are any areas that aren't clear.

                                               

                                              Amebr

                                              • 20. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Hi,

                                                 

                                                I don't know if your cum laude Amebr. The methods you describe are the most common methods of working with list in RoboHelp, but are not the preferred and correct method of working with lists.

                                                 

                                                In all these cases, the list style is defined trough the list element (li). If you want to style a list, you normally style the list itself, not the items in the list. It's like buying a red closet, but since you want it to be blue, you paint every piece yourself, instead of buying a blue closet altogether.

                                                 

                                                Most RoboHelp lists I see are build like this:

                                                 

                                                <ul>

                                                     <li class=p-text><p class=text>Text</p></li>

                                                </ul>

                                                 

                                                The browser take the default list style for the list, in this case a bullet (the red closet), but because the list item (the blue paint) may be defined otherwise. The correct way is ofcourse to buy the blue closet:

                                                 

                                                <ul class=text>

                                                     <li><p>123</li></p>

                                                </ul>

                                                 

                                                This way, the browser will not take the default list style, but correctly apply the list style you define. You can still apply paragraph and list classes, but you only have to define the unique elements for every item. This keeps your code and your style sheet smaller and easier to maintain.

                                                 

                                                I'm fully aware that RoboHelp doesn't fully support this yet, but for the time being, I'd recommend using Robo's multi level lists, since they result in valid HTML and will probably be easily converted to full fledged lists in some version still to come.

                                                 

                                                Greet,

                                                 

                                                Willam

                                                 

                                                • 21. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                  Amebr Level 4

                                                  I completely agree that the easiest way to style a list is through the OL/UL tags.

                                                   

                                                  However, everything I've written is designed to work with RH WYSIWYG, which as far as I can see doesn't allow you to select OL/UL styles (e.g. OL.MyFirstNumber), only LI. We don't have the time or inclination to manually code in HTML. I did indicate in 3c that assuming your font and size are the same, that information could be defined in the OL, UL definitions, and this also applies to any spacing that may be common, but for us cannot apply to the list-style-type due to our need for a number of different numbering and bullet styles.

                                                   

                                                  Additionally, we have to work around legacy issues in Robohelp. Our projects have come through from RH9 (i.e Blue Sky RH9 not the not yet to exist Adobe RH9) and have a lot of legacy / bad html in them. As we don't have the resources to change over 15 large projects in one go, we are going with the Combination method I described. This will allow the legacy code to work and allow us to apply a style once, rather than multiple times (as required in method 2), while eventually ending up with cleaner code and removing the incorrect P tags out of the list items.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  I've discounted the multi-level numbering for a number of reasons.

                                                   

                                                  1. I have difficulty working out how to get all the levels working together and the help doesn't help. I admit I've given up as the HTML lists are much simpler to set up.

                                                  2. If we do have to manually tweak some HTML, the code isn't standard HTML or CSS. I'm sure I could figure it out, but some of my colleagues aren't so technically minded. (In fact a few have practically fainted at the thought of standard HTML, let alone CSS.)

                                                  3. I'm really not impressed by the output generated by multi-level lists. It uses deprecated font tags and lots of spans and non-breaking spaces, and ultimately doesn't use OL, UL or LI tags at all.

                                                  Here's a sample:

                                                  <p>a)<span style='font:6.0pt "Times New Roman"'><font size="1" style="font-size:6pt;">     </font></span>item 1</p>

                                                  The HTML lists I describe at least result in clean HTML and CSS:

                                                  <ol type="a">
                                                  <li class="p-ab_list">item 1</li>
                                                  (yes, "type" is deprecated also, but much better than tonnes of FONT tags and nbsps, IMO.
                                                  )

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Hope this helps explain the reasons for the methods I described.

                                                   

                                                  Hopefully non-breaking spaces will now show in the code sample. Message was edited by: Amebr

                                                  • 22. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                    Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Hi,

                                                     

                                                    I completely understand your reasons, and for all my colleages (except 1), only the thought of html is terrifying. Still remains that I code a list in html much faster than I can use the RoboHelp styles to create a list. My colleages use the same method of work you use, to avoid any future problems.

                                                     

                                                    You're right about the multi level lists, but even though they are crap, I think they provide the best forward compatibility for future versions of RoboHelp, for not so technical technical authors.

                                                     

                                                    Greet,

                                                     

                                                    Willam

                                                    • 23. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                      Amebr Level 4

                                                      Ah, we're probably 90% on the same page, then. With a slight variation of opinion on multi-level lists.

                                                       

                                                      P.S. for anyone following, in the code sample above, the big gap after the FONT tag should have about 8 or 10 nbsp entities listed - couldn't figure out how to fix it and now can't edit it.

                                                      • 24. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                        notv4me Level 1

                                                        Unfortunately the solutions I've seen thus far won't really work for my folks and how they use RoboHelp, but I appreciate all of the assistance I've received. Here is a question: Would switching my project to Pure HTML help my problem at all?

                                                        • 25. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                          Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                          It wouldn't seem logical. If the source HTML is wrong, I cannot see how changing output options will change anything.

                                                           

                                                          Create a new layout to try it and delete afterwards.

                                                           

                                                          In RH8, you can create list styles so could you not fix the existing ones and then introduce list styles for new lists?

                                                           


                                                          See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                                                          • 26. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                            notv4me Level 1

                                                            I was just going to reply and say never mind, I just tried it on a test project and it definitely did not work.

                                                             

                                                            I don't know how to do either of those things, so while that may work, I haven't the foggiest idea how to make that happen. My HTML experience is almost a decade old and I'm also boxed in that any solution that doesn't allow the use of the list styles would not be considered much of a solution to my other developers.

                                                             

                                                            I'm really starting to regret our upgrade, this style debacle has sucked up a lot of my time the last couple weeks.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for your suggestions, though, Peter, I appreciate it!

                                                            • 27. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                              Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                                                              Is the situation that you have authors who are perhaps not technical enough to do anything much other than via the WYSIWYG and you are a support person who is more technical but without detailed knowledge of RoboHelp, particulary the new version?

                                                               

                                                              If so, would this help? Create a new project, import a couple of topics that are representative and show the problem. Either in those topics or another one, explain the problem again. Make sure you use the same CSS. Maybe I could advise better then. It might be that I can set up a couple of list styles. Not sure as it all depends on what I find.

                                                               

                                                              If you want to do that, send the project via http://www.cutesendit.com or similar. You can get my address from my site.

                                                               


                                                              See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                                                              • 28. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                MergeThis Level 4

                                                                The simplest way to format lists in WYSIWYG, without styles, is to do some simple .css OL/UL work and simply use the RH toolbar buttons.

                                                                 

                                                                Try this for nested numbered lists:

                                                                 

                                                                In the HEAD section of your topic (HTML view), add this code (and comment out any style sheet for now):

                                                                 

                                                                <style type="text/css">/*<![CDATA[*/
                                                                OL OL LI {
                                                                list-style-type: lower-roman;
                                                                }
                                                                OL OL OL LI {
                                                                list-style-type: upper-roman;
                                                                }
                                                                /*]]>*/</style>

                                                                In the topic (Design view):

                                                                 

                                                                1. Create a sentence, copy it seven times.
                                                                2. Select all seven lines and click the "Create a Numbered List" button.
                                                                3. Select items 3-6 and click the "Increase Indent" button.
                                                                4. Select items 2-3 from that inner list and click the "Increase Indent" button again.

                                                                 

                                                                Your result should be this:

                                                                 

                                                                1. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                2. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                     i. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                          I. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                          II. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                     ii. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.

                                                                3. They work at the network level to process requests efficiently and are available with SSL hardware accelerators.


                                                                Note that the first OL numbering is the default "decimal," which you could also customize by adding an OL LI style above the other two. And, of course, UL lists can be styled in the same manner, and you can mix them up (OL, UL, UL, for example).

                                                                 

                                                                To test different combinations, use the "TryItYourself" feature in the W3Schools site.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Good luck,

                                                                Leon

                                                                • 29. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                  notv4me Level 1

                                                                  Thanks Peter. That site is blocked here at work, so I'll have to try and do this at home.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Warren- 221-3210

                                                                  Senior Communications Support Specialist

                                                                  • 30. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                    cyclingdude Level 1

                                                                    I don't have anything technical to add to this discussion, just an observation. If one has to mess about with the html to accomplish the objective, you are negating one of the primary reasons for using RH in the first place. It is clear to me that Adobe should have a better job.

                                                                     

                                                                    Bob

                                                                    • 31. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                      Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      I don't know about that, since the Multi level lists should do the trick if you use them correct (though Amebr will disagree ). You can create those lists without any CSS or HTML knowledge, but you have to do it the right way. -- If you drink a beer from a Vodka glass, you can complain about having to refill every time, but you should have picked a beer glass

                                                                       

                                                                      Greet,

                                                                       

                                                                      Willam

                                                                      • 32. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                        fonnes Level 1

                                                                        I've been following this issue since I'm having similar problems, as are a lot of others it seems.

                                                                        I agree with cyclingdude - it should not be necessary to fix things in .html or .css files.

                                                                        And it may be true that

                                                                        "You can create those lists without any CSS or HTML knowledge, but you have to do it the right way", but what is the right way. The Help information in RH8 is not helpful at all. In general it doesn't tell you how to do things. RH5 was much better.

                                                                         

                                                                        Can someone post a detailed description of how to create a multilevel list using bullet images on all levels instead of numbers and letter, and how to apply them to topics that have been converted from RH5 (and other versions)? PLEASE?

                                                                         

                                                                        Barb

                                                                        • 33. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                          Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          In an attempt to clarify:

                                                                           

                                                                          -> You cannot define an image for a RoboHelp 8 Multilevel list, if you want bullet images, skip this part. You use a multilevel list for a sequence with characters, such as simple bullets, numbers, alpha characters, etc.

                                                                          -> You can use these methods without having to worry about html and css. There are other solutions if you manually write your CSS.

                                                                          -> This is just one way of working with multilevel lists, there are othersmethods, as this attempt is in no way exhaustive.

                                                                          -> Yes, these methods are more work than you had to do in Robo7, but there's not much I can do about that

                                                                           

                                                                          How creat a multilevel list?

                                                                          You define a multi level list in the styles dialog. I'd suggest creating a paragraph and style it any way you want. Do not apply the autonumber yet. If you defined separate paragaphs for every level, create a new multilevel list. Make sure that Apply formatting to is set to level one. At Paragraph style, select the paragraph you created for the the first level. Now select the sequency you want to use for level 1 in List style (or create a new sequence). In edit style, behind <x>, set the characters you want to use after the sequence character. Now select Level 2 in the drop down of Apply formatting to. Set the paragraph and list style and repeat this for every list style.

                                                                          How do I apply this list?

                                                                          Click the Multilevel list icon and select the list you want to use in Available list styles. Set the numbering and the level at the bottom om the dialog. Press OK and you're ready to go.

                                                                          How does this end up in your output?

                                                                          Speaking for WebHelp, RoboHelp adds the sequence character as text within your paragraph. It uses a lot of spaces to place it, but it works, altough it isn't pretty.

                                                                           

                                                                          How to create a multilevel list with bullet images?

                                                                          Well, you can't use the RoboHelp multilevel list. Instead, you use the lists you may already know. First, creat a new list in the styles dialog, this is the list for the first level. Style it any way you like, but you only have to set the bullet image, as any other styling will be overwritten by the paragraph you use. Now create a new list, this will be the list for the second level. Add a bullet image for this style and set the left (or right) indent, so it will indent further than the first level. As an example,if you've set the first list to 10px, set the second list to 20px. Now create a new list style for every level you want.

                                                                          How do I apply this list?

                                                                          Click the ordered/unordered list item and right click on the sequence character, normally a number or a bullet. Now select Bullets and numbering. In the Bullets and numbering dialog, go to the tab Custom. Select the list style you want to use, if you start the list, this is the first style you created. Click OK and type your text. If you want a different level, select the list items you want on another level. Right click on the sequence character and open the Bullets and numbering dialog. Go to the custom tab again and select the list style you want to use. Click OK and continue working. Whenever you need another level, repeat this process.

                                                                          It may be wise to create a template topic in which you place a couple of lists, so you can easily copy and paste your lists.

                                                                           

                                                                          I hope that this clarifies the 'new' RoboHelp lists a bit.

                                                                           

                                                                          How you would use this for a legacy project completely depends on the way you used to work and how your style sheet is created.

                                                                           

                                                                          Greet,

                                                                           

                                                                          Willam

                                                                          • 34. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                            Alan_Davidson Level 1

                                                                            Wow, I'm trying out a trial version of RH 8 and have had endless trouble trying to figure out how the multitude of "listing" features work and of how they relate to each other. I'm glad to see I'm not alone. It would have been nice if Adobe hadn't given us quite so many ways to shoot ourselves in the foot and had given us some indication as to the "correct" use of these features. I think there *is* some nice new listing functionality provided in RH 8, but I'm just not sure what it is or how to use it. And, although I really appreciate the help of the community experts, they don't seem to be in agreement as to the correct use of these features. I, for one, am just going to sit tight for another 6 to 12 months and see how this shakes out.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                              Captiv8r Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                              Hi Alan

                                                                               

                                                                              Alan_Davidson wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              ...And, although I really appreciate the help of the community experts, they don't seem to be in agreement as to the correct use of these features...

                                                                               

                                                                              I'm only noticing a single Community Expert in this thread. That one is our esteemed Peter Grainge.

                                                                               

                                                                              Your comment seems to infer you have been given conflicting advice? Can you please be more specific about what you mean?

                                                                               

                                                                              Cheers... Rick

                                                                               

                                                                               

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                                                                              • 36. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                                Alan_Davidson Level 1

                                                                                Hi Rick,

                                                                                 

                                                                                You're right, in this thread, only one Community Expert posted, and that was Peter. There are posts by a couple others, though, who seem to have a lot of knowledge in the area. One of them, Wheelan, I believe (I can't see the name because I'm typing in this form), offered the closest thing I've seen yet to followable instructions for "How to Create Lists Without Shooting Yourself in the Foot". I mistook him for a Community Expert. And, I followed at least one other thread here on the same topic in which one poster was suggesting a particular method and mentioning at the same time that some other expert or quasi-expert wouldn't agree.

                                                                                 

                                                                                But, that aside, what I would really like, and what I feel Adobe should be obliged to do, is to give us official guidance on the correct use of these list-making features. They should tell us how to use them and assure us that if we follow their guidelines, our lists won't be broken in the next release. I respect and appreciate the time that so many people put in on this forum helping others. However, just because someone on this forum, Community Expert or not, comes up with what might seem to be good guidance, it doesn't mean that Adobe will support it going forward. I was a user and big fan of FrameMaker for many years. FrameMaker has great list-making features and the documentation explains very well how to use them correctly (maybe I should put that into the past tense as I've hardly used that product in the last few years). As far as I can remember, upgrading from one release to the next in FrameMaker never broke lists. I'm hoping Adobe can do the same with RoboHelp.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'm in a bit of a quandry, actually, because we are going through some major changes with our product, and as a result, my doc team has decided to start a new help project from scratch. This would be the perfect time to upgrade to RH 8 and to create lists in the "correct" way. But instead of giving us guidance, Adobe leaves it to the Community Experts to scramble and try to come up with a recommendation, thereby relieving themselves of the responsibility of supporting it since it wasn't their official recommendation. That makes me nervous. I can't afford to invest a lot of time into creating lists the wrong way.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So, my decision seems to be between creating lists in RH 7 that might be broken in a future release or creating lists in RH 8 that might be broken in a future release. Considering the stability and performance issues I've encountered in RH 8, as well as the fact that drop-down lists are still too unwieldy  for us to use, we very honestly can't see any reason to upgrade. I wish it weren't so. Sorry that this turned into a bit of a rant, but I've spent a very frustrating week trying out RH 8. I had been looking forward to a nice new writing tool that would make my work easier and my documentation product better.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Cheers,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Al Davidson

                                                                                • 37. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                                  niann0rth Level 1

                                                                                  I'm dragging this out of the past a bit but having read the thread I just want some confirmation.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I have converted from RH5 to RH8 and it looks like during the conversion all my bulleted lists have been corrected so they are not paragraph style etc. However when using the old CSS if the various bullet options are used the list defaults to a numbered list.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The simple and easiest solution would appear from the thread to be to apply the paragraph style etc then from the toolbar select bullets or steps. The look is a little different but the code produced is correct.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So do I understand this correctly, the code for my converted topics has been corrected during the conversion process and I need to remove the bullet and step options from my style sheet and from this point forward have authors use the bullet and step options in the tool bar?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It's a bit of a pain as I always liked having any style that needed to be applied in the CSS so author's did not go off doing their own thing, I think a bit of re education will be required.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The only issue now is the numbers in the step lists are not the same size as the text. We use 'em' to define text size and although I think the issue would appear if we used something else it's spoils the look of some of the pages a bit.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                                    Willam van Weelden Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    Hi,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    The simple and easiest solution would appear from the thread to be to apply the paragraph style etc then from the toolbar select bullets or steps. The look is a little different but the code produced is correct.

                                                                                    That would probably be the easiest, unless you can come up wich a macro ie to do this for you.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So do I understand this correctly, the code for my converted topics has been corrected during the conversion process and I need to remove the bullet and step options from my style sheet and from this point forward have authors use the bullet and step options in the tool bar?

                                                                                    This is partially correct. Your authors do need to select a list and then the paragraph. You can still have your step paragraph for steps, but they will not influence wether your list uses bullets, images, numbers etc. You control this in the list itself. More further on.

                                                                                    However, you topics were not 'corrected'. You old styling (bullet style in paragraph) is not removed from your style sheet, but simply doesn't work anymore.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    It's a bit of a pain as I always liked having any style that needed to be applied in the CSS so author's did not go off doing thier own thing, I think a bit of re education will be required.

                                                                                    The only issue now is the numbers in the step lists are not the same size as the text. We use 'em' to define text size and although I think the issue would appear if we used something else it's spoils the look of some of the pages a bit.

                                                                                    You can still have those styles and solve the issue of the numbers at the same time!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Basically, there are three things you can do:

                                                                                    1. Create a global style for your lists. In your style sheet, add OL {} and set the standard font size for all lists. This will set all the numbers, alfa, roman etc to the correct size.

                                                                                    2. Create a list style. (LI.class). In the Styles dialog, choose lists and create a new one. To apply such a style, go to a list, right click and select Bullets and Numbering. Go to Custom and select your own list style. You then select a paragraph to style the text.

                                                                                    3. Create Multilevel lists. You can attach a paragraph to such a list, so your users only have to select a list.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Greet,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Willam

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Bulleted List Becomes Numbered List in RH8
                                                                                      niann0rth Level 1

                                                                                      Thanks for the help looks like I have a style sheet to amend and a fair bit of find and replace work to do...

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