31 Replies Latest reply on Aug 6, 2009 7:40 PM by the_wine_snob

    Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)

    dmceathron Level 1

      When importing files of the following types (AI, EPS and PSD), the logo I have placed still looks slightly pixelated/fuzzy.  Same thing goes for any title slides I have created in Illustrator and imported into PE4. I did outline the text before saving to the different file types.

       

      I read this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390820?tstart=30 and tried the suggestion but it didn't seem to work for me.  I am working in 16:9.

       

      Any suggestions?  I have a logo at the beginning and end of the video, and it is smaller and overlay throughout the video (watermark).

       

      I am placing them at their proper size (example, for the overlay, I created the image in Illustrator, small and to the bottom right so that I didn't have to scale or move the location of the image once in PE4).

       

      Many thanks in advance - this board has been invaluable to me.

       

      Message was edited by: dmceathron - spellcheck :)

        • 1. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
          dmceathron Level 1

          I have also tried adding a drop shadow as suggested in another thread, but this did not help.  I will now try PNG and GIF and see if that helps at all.

          • 2. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
            dmceathron Level 1

            Nope, still looks the same.  I had my fingers crossed, but no luck.

            • 3. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
              Steve Grisetti-JFIrXo Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              How are you judging this resolution?

               

              Remember that video is essentially only 640x480 pixels -- that's only about 1/4 the size of a typical video monitor. So, if you're looking at your video at full screen, it's definitely going to look fuzzy.

               

              Also, video is interlaced while computer monitor images are not. So, even after you've rendered your video file (You have rendered, haven't you?) it will look shaggier on a computer than it will on TV.

              • 4. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                While PE and PrPro can Import AI files, I have always found that I get far better results by opening these in PS (Photoshop), sizing them to what is needed, and then letting PS Rasterize them when doing a Save_As to .PSD. I do a lot of work in AI, but always use PS as my intermediate step, before going to Video.

                 

                Now, one of the important things is to resize the Vector image, before going to PSD, because I do not favor the algorithms in either PE, or Pro. I want everything just as it will be used on my Video. If I have intricate sizing, I'll also Export a still that is typical of where the logo, Bug, or whatever, will be used, and then utilize it as a guide only. Before I do the Save_As, I'll discard that guide Layer.

                 

                Here's an ARTICLE on text and graphics used in Video, that might offer some insight on how to get the most out of text.

                 

                Remember, in Video, you are limited to the resolution (Frame Size here) of the Project, unlike going to print.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Steve,

                   

                  Remember that video is essentially only 640x480 pixels -- that's only about 1/4 the size of a typical video monitor. So, if you're looking at your video at full screen, it's definitely going to look fuzzy.

                   

                  Very good point. I always do a test of the exact conditions, as close as I can come, to the final viewing situation, i.e. a DVD RW played on a set-top player for DVD-Video, if that is to be my final delivery scheme. When judging in the NLE's Program Monitor, I always view at 100%, in lieu of "Fit" also.

                   

                  A high-rez, larger computer monitor is not a good judge for material to be distributed on DVD-Video.

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                    dmceathron Level 1

                    Hi guys-

                     

                    I will try the PSD trick in photoshop, but have tried a similar trick by exporting my AI to PSD in Illustrator.  Perhaps this is not the same as opening the AI in Photoshop and then saving as a PSD.

                     

                    I am making all of the files the largest size possible, which is the same size as my original videos (I believe 960x540) and making the graphics the proper size within that frame so that I am not resizing in PE4.

                     

                    I am viewing it at the correct size after exporting (640x360) in Flash.  These videos are for the client's website and also Youtube HD (meaning we will export as Flash for the site and as MOV for the Youtube upload).  So we don't have to worry about DVD or TV usage.

                     

                    I am off to shoot a bit more video at the moment but will try to get an update in later this afternoon.

                     

                    Thanks!  Any further advice is welcome!

                    • 7. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Maybe it's just the years of print design work that I did, but my workflow is to create a logo at a comfortable working size in AI. Being a Vector image, I can scale to my heart's content, or per the client's whims.

                       

                      I then do any resizing for Video in PS, before I Rasterize and output to my NLE.

                       

                      While never as perfect as print work, this has always yielded the best results for me in video.

                       

                      Good luck and good luck with the shoot.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                        dmceathron Level 1

                        I have a huge background in print as well!  Maybe that's why I'm so picky about how crisp the logo shold look.

                         

                        I will try again using the PS tip and see if it works.

                        • 10. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          How does the type size of your logo compare to the example on YouTube?

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 11. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                            dmceathron Level 1

                            It is smaller - it extends the width of the frame, but is only about 1/3 the height.  That is for the main logo shots.

                             

                            For the overlay it is very small - in the lower right corner...

                            • 12. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                              dmceathron Level 1

                              Uh oh - random thought but just noticed it...

                               

                              So I have been working in DV format - not HDV - the preset for DV is 720x480 while the preset for HDV is 1280x720.

                               

                              So, for exporting to YouTube from the DV settings, it would have to make the file bigger than it actually is, huh?

                               

                              I'm thinking I need to redo everything in the 1280x720 format if possible.  But maybe not if our videos are going to be smaller than the 720x480 size?? Yikes!

                               

                              Is there any way to import a project into a new project and retain the rendered files, etc?

                              • 13. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Are you seeing this softness in both versions?

                                 

                                Are you viewing this on the Program Monitor, and if so, is it set to 100% Magnification, and not "Fit?"

                                 

                                In the Playback Settings>Desktop Display Mode, what setting is used?

                                 

                                What will be your final delivery, YouTube, or DVD/BD?

                                 

                                Is your material SD or HD? Just saw your next post.

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 14. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                  dmceathron Level 1

                                  Yep, I see the softness in both.  It is more of a pixelized effect.

                                   

                                  I am basing my judgement of the appearance on the final Flash test that we output...

                                   

                                  Not on the monitor view.

                                   

                                  Final delivery will be Flash for a website.

                                   

                                  I am going to try a test with PSD in the 720x480 size to see if that corrects the issues.

                                  • 15. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Good luck, and please report the findings. I have nothing to add to the Flash Export, as I have never done this from PE, PrPro or Encore.

                                     

                                    On the PrPro forum, one contributor, Jim Simon, does do quite a bit of Flash work, and has recommended a conversion module to several, that has worked fine for him. I do not recall his exact workflow, or the program, but he's very critical of results and if he likes it, I feel that I would too. You might want to search both the PrPro CS3 and CS4 fora for Flash and Jim Simon. If I find one of his responses, with the info, I'll link to it from here.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 16. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                      dmceathron Level 1

                                      Well now I am at a loss.

                                       

                                      I thought I was on the right track - here is the new issue.

                                       

                                      My project preferences for all files are set at the default for NTSC Widescreen.

                                       

                                      I went into Edit - Preferences - General to see that the frame size is 720x480

                                       

                                      So I created my "slides" at that size.

                                       

                                      I drop them in, and they do not fit the size of the video - they are too short horizontally, although it seems to fit vertically.  But then again, I think PE4 will make it fit the frame, as best it can?

                                       

                                      I originally did the slides at 960x540 and the ratio was correct - the slides fit properly, even if they were not the "right" size, they were the "right" ratio.  Although I don't remember where I got that seemingly random number from...

                                       

                                      Am I missing something?  How do I figure out the exact size of the frame to create these slides?

                                       

                                      The final output will be 640x360, if that makes any difference...

                                       

                                      Thanks in advance!

                                      • 17. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        The first thing that I would do is select one of your slides and Rt-click, choosing Interpret Footage. Choose 16:9 PAR 1.2. If, for some reason, that does not work, you can create an Action in PS/PSE to change the PAR from 0.9 to 1.2, and run the whole folder via Automate>Batch. Problem would then be that you'll have to re-Import them. One could close out PE, and overwrite the files with the same exact filename, but I am less a fan of doing this. I know that Adobe Encore gets very messed up, when this is done, and worry that PE/PrPro would get confused, as well. Before I did that, I'd do a Save_As for the Project and work from that Project file, not the original, in case something goes off.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                         

                                        PS, I always create/edit my images in PS with the exact Frame Size and PAR as the Project in which I will be using them.

                                        • 18. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                          dmceathron Level 1

                                          Hello again-

                                           

                                          Thanks again for all the help you are providing.

                                           

                                          I think I did not explain myself clearly.

                                           

                                          The issue is that the slide is not the right size, and I tried changing the PAR as per you post, but it just stretches the images (distorts).

                                           

                                          Please see the attached examples to show what I am talking about.

                                           

                                          Perhaps a picture will be more helpful...?

                                           

                                          The issue is that PE4 tells me my frame size is 720x480, but clearly, it is not, based on how that slide fits into the frame.

                                           

                                          So, I WANT to create the slides at the proper size, but I do not know what size that could be!

                                          • 19. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                            dmceathron Level 1

                                            And here's the flash output, notice the pixelation of the red slide, compared to the yellow slide.

                                             

                                            So obviously, PE4 likes the yellow, 720x480 slide, but it doesn't fit the frame.

                                             

                                            Argh.

                                            • 21. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                              dmceathron Level 1

                                              FLV upload creates an error, sorry...

                                              • 22. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Going back upthread, you stated:

                                                 

                                                I am making all of the files the largest size possible, which is the same size as my original videos (I believe 960x540) and making the graphics the proper size within that frame so that I am not resizing in PE4.

                                                 

                                                What is your Project Preset? Since PE does not have the Desktop Mode, that PrPro does, how did you set it up to work with 960x540? Also, are you using NTSC, or PAL?

                                                 

                                                What is the PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) of this footage?

                                                 

                                                Are you doing any Scaling, or Fit to Frame on the Video footage?

                                                 

                                                What is the source of your 960x540 footage? What is the format and CODEC of that material?

                                                 

                                                Now, my guess would be a mis-match between the Assets and the Project. The answers to the above will go a ways toward helping tell if that is the case.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 23. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                  dmceathron Level 1

                                                  I may have misspoken in that thread, and not used the correct terminology.  I have no idea where I got the 960x540 number from, TBH.

                                                   

                                                  The original size was 1920x1080, H264 codec.

                                                   

                                                  I used SuperC to make them same size (just verified in WMP), using the FFMPEG encoder, which uses the CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7) CODEC.

                                                   

                                                  I used the preset for NTSC-DV-Widescreen for each project.

                                                   

                                                  When I Interpret Footage, it tells me the PAR is square for the video clips.

                                                   

                                                  I did scale everything to 102.5 percent to get rid of the very thin black lines to the left and right of the clips.

                                                   

                                                  So I'm guessing that everything is OK with the files, project presets, etc, as the Flash output looks great.  The only issue is the title slides that I want to drop in.

                                                   

                                                  So, I guess my issue now is, what size (dimensions) file do I create is PS to create a title that is properly sized for this project?  Do I go in and create a 720x480 file with the 1.2 PAR?  That seems to give me a more correct looking size?  Wow, I feel as though I have completely over complicated this question!

                                                   

                                                  Print was so easy - this is my page size, I need a bleed, outline the fonts, I'm done!

                                                  • 24. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    So, I guess my issue now is, what size (dimensions) file do I create is PS to create a title that is properly sized for this project?  Do I go in and create a 720x480 file with the 1.2 PAR?  That seems to give me a more correct looking size?

                                                     

                                                    You have broken the code! In PS, File>New and choose DV NTSC 720x480 Widescreen w/ Guides. That should get your Titles exactly per the Project Preset. Use the Guides to make sure that all elements are inside the Action-safe outer Guides, and all text is inside the Title-safe inner Guides.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 25. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                      dmceathron Level 1

                                                      Ha!  I got that all to work - but I am still unhappy with the "spiderweb artifacts" appearing around the edge of the logo.  It is a very simple logo - basically a circle and then the URL of the business - nothing crazy.

                                                       

                                                      I'm unsure of where to go from here.  Thank you so much for trying to help!!

                                                      • 26. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                        I am still unhappy with the "spiderweb artifacts" appearing around the edge of the logo

                                                         

                                                        Where are you observing these artifacts - the Program Monitor, on the TV from a set-top player and DVD?

                                                         

                                                        You can e-mail me the .PSD at info AT huntphoto DOT com, and I'll be glad to take a look at it for you. Just put "Adobe PE" in the Subject, so MailWasher doesn't get it. Oh, and be sure to eliminate all spaces and replace AT and DOT with the appropriate characters, in the e-dress.

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 27. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                          dmceathron Level 1

                                                          Not to re-open this thread - but I have another related question here.  I am sort of satisfied with how the logo looks and have determined that it looks the best that it can at this point!

                                                           

                                                          My new question is this: I have a PSD screenshot of the website the client is developing the videos for that I want, it is in a PSD format, but no matter if I try to import it as a PSD or JPG, it is VERY fuzzy.  Any thoughts on importing photos or images like this?

                                                           

                                                          If I need to start a new thread, I'm happy to do so, but this was so related I thought I would just tag on - since it was my thread to start with, I'm not hijacking

                                                           

                                                          Thanks in advance!

                                                          • 28. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                            If it is in .PSD, keep it there. Now, tell us about this image, such as dimension in pixels. Also, please refresh my memory about the specs. of your Project, mainly Frame Size.

                                                             

                                                            I'll lay odds that we can get it better, and I only hope that it was done well in the beginning.

                                                             

                                                            Good luck,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 29. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                              dmceathron Level 1

                                                              Hi!  My frame size is 720 x 480, 1.2 PAR.

                                                               

                                                              The screenshot is 1200 by 900.  I want to be able to pan down on the image.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks!

                                                              • 30. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                Well, that is not that large. Any differences that one might see between PS and PrE should be very slight, if detectable at all.

                                                                 

                                                                Now, how are you monitoring your image's quality? In the Program Monitor, I recommend Magnification at 100%. Remember, you are still looking at a preview, an emulation, and on a higher-rez computer screen. For a critical examination, I recommend a calibrated NTSC CRT monitor. These, however, are seldom available outside of a commercial editing suite. The next best thing is to burn a DVD RW (no "coasters" that way), and play it on an SD TV with a set-top player. That is the "litmus test."

                                                                 

                                                                I'd be glad to look closely at your .PSD, if you like. You can e-mail it to me at: info AT huntphoto.com (of course, you know to substitute the AT for the @ and close up all spaces). Just put "Premiere Elements in the Subject," so MailWasher doesn't send it to byte-heaven.

                                                                 

                                                                Good luck,

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                • 31. Re: Edges of logo in AI, EPS or PSD are not crisp (PE4, Illustrator CS2)
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  Also, with a Web site display, how are you, or your client, getting that image? If it's a screen-cap, then you are handicapped to start.

                                                                   

                                                                  Now, when I have done ads (print), where a Web page was required, I just built it in PS, rather than doing a screen-cap of the page. That is tatamount to doing a JPEG of a JPEG and then FAX'ing it to be used in an ad. Now, that is for print advertising, and video is quite limiting to begin with. Still, a mockup would be the way that I'd want to go, but I have no idea what the budget might be.

                                                                   

                                                                  It's kind of like what one does with regards to labels, etc. in advertising photography - it's called "building a hero." Rather than using a normally printed label, etc., one creates a special version, that is much higher-rez than one off the normal printing press, and it's printed on much better stock, than the ones that a consumer would see on the client's product in the store.

                                                                   

                                                                  Just a side note,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt