hahaha. Thanks for sharing.
For what it's worth, that's not a typical review or a typical experience.
I am looking to purchase a NLE program. I have used Sony Vegas Pro 8 Very good, however, it is complex.
I read from your emotion that you don't like the Adobe product.
I would be interested as to why? Crap & Sucks isn't technical enough for me to make an informed decission.
I look forward to your real reasons behind your opinion's. Many thanks in advance:
It's really all about the right tool for the right job, Barry.
Premiere Elements works very well on a well-tuned computer with HDV video or video from a miniDV camcorder. It can also work with DVD and hard drive video, on a properly set up project on a well powered computer.
It does not work well with video from hybrid sources, like Flip cameras or video from still cameras.
And the real, central question is, What are you trying to accomplish? Most people who are genuinely frustrated with this program are trying to use it to do things it wasn't designed to do.
And I agree with you, Barry. Simply saying "it sucks" doesn't give us much to work with...
Thank you Steve for your prompt reply to both my inputs.
Firstly, .. I will use the link to purchase from Amazon & secondly; I shoot short (up to 45 minute) vid's covering: travel, nature, business seminars etc.
I'm totally with you on computer configuration! My initial attempts to produce a DVD from Pinnacle 9 were disastrous! ..Hours of editing, multi sound tracking, rendering then when the project was finally sent to DVD; the program would announce "Successful Burn" where in actual fact, .... nothing worked!
I have a bullet proof, very fast system now, so production should start very soon.
[unnecessary insult deleted by host]
Cheers for now:
Well, I rarely judge people based on their negative comments about Premiere Elements. On some machines, with some video sources, it can be disaster!
But it does bug me when somebody just slaps an "it sucks" comment on this forum without even asking for help.
As you can see, there are people like me, Hunt, Paul, Tony Romano and many others who are here almost constantly, eager to help anyone who asks. (And at no compensation whatsoever.) And those "it sucks" comments really are a slap in the face to the people who want everyone to enjoy the positive experience they've enjoyed with the program.
But oh well. What can you do.
When I got back into editing, after not having really touched film for decades, I started with Pinnacle Studio 7, IIRC. and worked up through Studio 9. When Studio 10 turned out to be a real problem, especially with the 10.5.1 update, I jumped to Avid Liquid, which was really more my style. It was OK, but a friend suggested PrPro, and from the first day that I had it on a system, I was in love - this was more like how I used to edit film, but with oh, so much more power and control. I've not had a moment's trouble with it, and have done 8-10 hour Projects with ease. I got PE to handle some of the more consumer-oriented formats, that PrPro choked on, and it has worked beautifully. I use it more for learning, than actual editing, because I like the interface of PrPro over the newer one in PE (4 & 7), but that's 'cause I'm "old school." Still, it works beautifully for me, when I do use it.
As for problems, in my decades with Adobe products, I've only seen a handful of real Bugs. When one is experiencing problems, it almost always breaks down to:
5.) Bugs (tiny fraction at the end of the list)
When doing remote troubleshooting, such as in the forum, that is where I start: System and then work on through the above list, and pretty much in that order.
As for reviews, I read them, but with that proverbial "grain of salt." When I see comments like, "the latest, greatest system from _______," etc., I look for the exact specs and setup. If there are none, I go back to my list above and discount the review, based on the info on the test system, or lack thereof. As Steve has pointed out many times, there is much more to an NLE system, than just the specs for the various components. NLE systems are different than just a very fast, late model word processor, or even an image editing computer. They require that one do things differently in the setup, and most reviewers are testing all sorts of hardware and software, and often times just grab some computer from their test bench, where all it's ever done was run benchmarks. Then, they slap an NLE program onto it, and complain. My S-500 AMG is a great auto, and for touring on the highway, cannot be beaten, IMO. However, I know how poorly it would fare in an SCCA race at Road Atlanta or Laguna Seca. An NLE machine is like the autos at Road Atlanta - designed for that purpose. Touring in one would be a real challange, but on the track, they excel.
Now, if a reviewer wants to get my attention and my respect, they will build an NLE system, and then test several of the programs, side-by-side. Even then, I will have to read between the lines, as even with an experienced editor, personal preferences will figure into the review. Unless a reviewer can project themselves into the mind of the target audience, it's still tough to do a fair evaluation. I would have a difficult time reviewing PrPro against PE, because of what I do, or want to do. However, for the general public, the power and control of PrPro is heavy over-kill and would deter most from even attempting to edit their home-videos with it. Different programs for different markets.
Nah, reviews are basically to fill page space and sell advertising on either the Web or a magazine. Few reviewers know enough about the programs, in general, and usually fail to set up their computers to handle the extra load, to be of much use to me. I also see a lot of cut-n-paste going on, where four different "reviewers" will have the exact same phrases in their reviews.
Well said! [applause]
I am new to PE 7. I had an older version from a friend, but never used it. I had Vegas Video (not sure what version) on my XP desktop with 4 gigs of memory and a P4 of some kind that was 4 years old. Used to edit video, but now never used. PC is collecting dust. So I got a HP Vista laptop. Not the best thing, but good enough to edit and make videos with Windows Movie Maker. However, there are severe limitations to that software, so I looked at reviews and saw the Adobe PE got good reviews. I installed it on my HP Laptop with 4gb of ram (32 bit vista however) and started to edit a four minute video. Eventually I saw a memory issue, etc.
The software also started to crash. Nonethless, this is a laptop and it's a average laptop so fine, I installed the software on my W2K8 64 Bit VT enabled 16 gb of RAM home server. Installed and worked pretty well, but laggy at times.
I suspect this is because it's running in 32 bit compatibility mode. This home server, that I use to test various Windows Server Applications via Hyper V, is solid. I have 3.X TB of space on a RAID volume, and 1.5 TB of space on the host OS disk. 16 GB of memory and a nice VT enabled Intel enabled proc.
How can I configure this server/Adobe to be more responsive. It seems to lag when you have those silly effects channels open. I googled for performance recommendations, but found only articles for Adobe PE 4.0. Vegas, on XP, never had performance issues. But whatever, I don't care, I bought this and I'd love to make it work on even a low end laptop if possible. Right now that doesn't seem possible.
Not the exact same in several respects, but my laptop handles PE4 with everything I have thrown at it. This has been SD only. It also handles PrPro (PE's big brother) and I'm editing an 8 hour Project to/from a 2TB FW-800 external.
I'm on XP Pro SP3, with 3x 200GB SATA II HDD's and 4GB RAM. This laptop does not have the 3GB switch, like my workstation does.
So far, there have been no problems.
As stated before, the main problems are:
That is how I go about trouble shooting anyone's problems.
Thanks Hunt, but that is not specific. What can I do on my laptop and or hardcore VM server to handle this application so that it runs like water? You list three things, but you don't list the steps or specifics. I am thinking someone outlined performance improvements tips for Vista (which would be the same for Windows Server 2008) on a blog and or here in the support forums, and or in your own experience... So can someone outline those steps so that I can tweak my systems for best perfomance?
That's all I am asking for. I bought the program, I am not returning it, I like it, I want to use it. However, I want it to be responsive and not sluggish or buggy.
PS here are my system specs:
HP [Pavillion DV8700
AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-60 2 GHz
4 GB ram
32 Bit OS
Vista Ultimate 32 Bit SP1
I am pretty sure the disk drive is some crappy 5200 RPM drive....most laptops drives are
My vid card is Nvidia GeForce 8400MGS with dedicated 256MB ram and 1359MB shared memory.
These three links will give you all the info needed to build/setup a computer for NLE work:
Follow Harm's suggestions very closely. You will end up with a screaming system.
Also, the PE FAQ's contain a ton of suggestions to optimize one's system for work with PE. Each is a gem and contains very useful info.
PS it might be better to start a new thread, rather than tacking onto one about unfaovrable reviews of PE. More people are likely to see and respond to it.
I agree that video editing really requires a fine-tuned system since there are so many factors that can affect the software. On that very front, I started out with PE 2.0 on this same XP PC with 1 GIG of RAM. I never liked its editing interface and I eagerly went to version 3.0. That didn't do much for me and I went to version 4.0. Don't I ever give up? hehe That's when it "clicked" with me. Version 4 operated how I work (mostly). Though, it wouldn't get me a beer from the fridge! hehe
Well, I just bought via download version 7.0. Works great on my workstation PC though I upgraded to 4 GIGs of RAM and everything is fast. I've had a few glitches with the program, but my system is NOT fine-tuned and PE seems to work well.
The only problem I had with PE7 was the download! I thought I had the whole thing but had only downloaded the templates from the Adobe store. It wasn't clear online about that. I gave up and later I found somehow the actual program in the download manager. It's weird in the store. Wouldn't be a piece of cake for a computer novice.
I've never bought any of my Adobe software for download, so have not spent much time on that site. However, judging from the number of people, who have issues, similar to yours, it seems that Adobe could do a better job with the instructions as to what one will need, and how to then install from them. I've filed a few suggestions, that they make some changes to instruct their customers a bit better, though it does not appear that any changes have been made. Maybe soon.
Thanks for the comments,
No problem about the comments.
Indeed, I had a perplexing and frustrating time downloading the right components for PE7 (took two to four attempts over 8 hours), and I am a seasoned user of music software such as: Sonar, Finale, Sibelius, etc… I was never sure what files I had and what to do with them. I re-downloaded some things and they are big files.
It seemed to me that the store's site indicated that you only needed to download TWO files: "a download manager" and the data files. However, it cruelly turned out that you needed to download TWO "download managers" and two data files (for program and templates).
That could drive any man to drink! hehe (hopefully not just plonk!) hehe
Actually, I already had long ago bought the PE4 download and that was only one file. It was still downloadable in my account.
Well, I'm tenacious when I want to be. Gotta run!
It was still downloadable in my account.
That IS one of the good things about the Adobe Store. Adobe keeps a pretty good database of purchases and registrations/Activations. I've pointed people there, when they bought some download software years before, and Adobe always had their info and a link to the download.
I just wish that with some of the programs, they would clarify exactly what a buyer needs and what they need to do to install. All too often, the Functional Content does not get downloaded, and hence does not get installed. Suddenly, a user reads of, or hears of, someone using Menu ____, and they realize that they do not have any Menus, or Themes, etc. Then the search begins.
In my book, Adobe is great, but could be even better, especially with regards to downloaded programs. Now, I'm one of those old-school sorts, and always want my CD/DVD and any printed book that comes with the program. I'll pay more to get the box full of "stuff." I am still less a fan of doing a download, especially for larger, more expensive programs.
PS as it's almost "wine:30" here on a hot afternoon in AZ, I think it's time to open up a Caymus Conundrum to sip for a bit, as the SW Desert begins to cool - hopefully.
Indeed, it is very handy to keep around the different versions and activations. I accidentally downloaded version 4 first instead of 7 the other night! (I'm not being sarcastic). I wasn't paying attention and I probably clicked on the wrong one first. Though, my indulgences in "Orange Peel Ale" probably didn't help much the situation! hehe ;-)
When I finally got the right version, I never did have any problem unzipping the content into a temporary directory with the download manager.
I am a fan of buying the actual DVD-ROM and manuals as well, but I've been making exceptions since I first downloaded PE4. Living in Canada and ordering from the States, I often get dinged with ridiculous brokerage charges from couriers. It's always a hit and miss situation. Once I ordered a CD-ROM of sound fonts worth $25 and I got a $15 brokerage charge. Funny, I just ordered the latest Sibelius music software upgrade from California (cost $200) and no extra charges. I can never figure it out. However, that is why I don't mind the download option to avoid the extra misery of such superfluous and useless charges. I'm not cheap, and I'm very generous, but I don't like throwing away good cash on thin air brokerage charges.
I'm very happy that Adobe is ahead of this game and offers a download option. For me, that's an easy sale. I just wish my music software sellers (Sibelius, Finale, and Sonar) would do that same!
Ps: I hope you enjoyed your wine.
I think that we are both in similar boats - our respective governments and many of the suppliers, get away with dinging us, every chance they can. I have shipped myself a case of wine from California and paid $X. I have a locker in Napa, where some wineries ship to me, as they cannot ship to AZ. The storage facility uses the same shipper and sets the same insurance. In every instance, that same general case will cost me $X + 25%. Maybe it's because they figure if I have a storage facility, I can afford to pay more?
Tell me more about this Orange Peel Ale. Local to you? While I'm more of a wino, I do love great beers, ales, stouts and Porters.
As for the wine, it was good. Now, I just opened a Saintsbury Carneros Chard.
Two things I don't like to do: Throwing good money at bad and dubious brokerage charges! Though, bad wine in a Riedel glass I could stomach, but it wouldn't be my first choice! hehe
Good money at bad? I said I first bought PE2 and PE3 and I wasn't too happy about it. Why did I continue? Because I had used Videowave in 1999 (before Roxio bought it) and it worked for me but I found it a hellish experience, wondering if my PC was going to crash at any moment while using it. I had heard about Premiere Pro at that time but that was out of my price range. I was just getting into video and I wanted to film my singer/songwriter girlfriend's show at a Montreal folk club. At the time in 2001, I thought it would be great to have an online place to store videos that others could watch. Videowave had that in 2001 but it was really limited.
Funny, YouTube came out and changed it all!
I've been a Photoshop user since 2003 so I naturally got interested when Adobe came out with this Premiere Elements line. That intrigued since I enjoy hobby video work so I bought PE2. I knew Adobe was quality and I bided my time until version 4 came on the scene and that made me very happy! They even had audio FXs for reducing noise. I was impressed since I was used to such handy things for audio recording.
As for your wine exploits, NEVER stop!!! hehe Never stop uncorking! hehe I like that "Fawlty Towers" episode where the guy says that the wine is corked. Basil Fawlty replies, "No it's not. I just uncorked it!"… etc….
"Orange Peel Ale" is craft brewed by the "Great Lakes Brewery" in Toronto, Canada.
I generally drink Québec beers (i.e. Boréale, St-Ambroise, Trois Pistoles, etc.) but I fancy this Toronto brewery's October batches of "Pumpkin Ale" and now they have "Orange Peel Ale" in the summer. Voilà!
Thank you so much for the Canadian beers & ales recs. I'll turn a few good friends loose with them, when they're next up there. They spend a month in upper NY state, and cross over often. They are both winos and hop-heads, so they should appreciate the recs.
As for Adobe, I've been using their programs since Photoshop first hit the PC. Some of their programs, like Illustrator and PageMaker, were on my computer, before they were Adobe - originally, these were from a company named Aldus.
While each program has not been perfect (think PageMill), others have always worked for me. The Premiere lineup has been one of those, and AI and PS have never hiccuped in two decades. I've only used PE4 a bit, as PrPro is my NLE of choice. Still, I try to use it every chance I get, just to help people on this forum. So far, I've only encountered an issue where if I work on a Project (do that all the time with my test Projects to answer questions) and choose to NOT Save it, upon exit, I get an error message. Have not taken the time to use the same resources that I post about to track that one down. Some slow day, I'll do it. With that one exception, PE4 has always done everything that I could throw at it, provided I did not throw something that was PrPro-only, and I do that quite often. Still, no crashes (other than detailed above), and it's fast on my laptop. I imagine that it would fly on my workstation, but I only use it down here by the pool.
Sorry that it did not make the grade for you. Personally, I like the interface in PrPro so very much better, but then it's closer to my film background. I do not mind doing things by hand, because I am a control freak.
Well, the rements of the Saintsbury is calling... and it's wine:30 somewhere on this Earth. BTW, I'm committing herasy here, as I am drinking this Chardonnay in a Riedel Vinum Bdx. stem. These have become my everyday stem, because I hosted a Riedel event and ended up with a ton of these. Now, when we do dine with some decourm, we utilize the "proper" designs for the appropriate wines. For everyday, the Bdx. stems work, even for the Chards. Give me a Meursault with some years, and I'll break out my Riedel Montrachet stems. I just don't bring 'em down to the pool.
Take care, and if you ever want to delve into the issues with PE and your computer, please start a new thread, and I'll jump in and see if we can get things sorted to your requirements.
Get Robert Stack on the phone! In what could be the greatest tech unsolved mystery since the disappearance of Intel’s Tejas, someone has kidnapped Premiere Elements 5.0 and 6.0!
Just kidding. There’s no crime here unless you believe that it’s flat-out wrong for Adobe to jump from version 4.0 to version 7.0 just to ensure that Premiere Elements matches version numbers with Photoshop Elements 7.0.
One thing we hoped for that’s definitely not present: three full upgrades’ worth of new features and improvements. Adobe continues to use its dumbed-down interface, which we initially viewed with disgust. Oddly enough, the more we’ve used it, the more forgiving we’ve become; we’ve grown quite fond of the newb-friendly front end, despite the fact that it’s basically unchanged. The menus and titling in the consumer video editor continue to be top-notch, as well.
Changes to the program include AVCHD editing support, which we welcome, and the addition of wizard-like features, some good, some so-so. InstantMovie, for example, allows you to easily turn a bunch of clips into a movie, parsing the best clips and adding transitions and effects for you automatically. Similar features have been a big disappointment to us in the past and InstantMovie isn’t a noticeable improvement. The pain of being forced to watch someone else’s home video isn’t lessened just because it’s automatically dressed up with transitions, filters, and a soundtrack. On the other hand, SmartSound makes creating soundtracks a snap. It includes some free music, or you can add your own MP3s to create copyright-violating home movies. Our favorite wizard is the SmartTags feature, which mitigates the tedium of organizing your clips. After you import clips, it scans them for close-ups, crowds, small groups, blurry images, shaky shots, and even focus problems. It’s not perfect and it lacks actual facial recognition, but it does help if you have a lot of footage to wade through.
Our biggest problem with Premiere Elements is that it suffers a host of problems (both minor and major). The first glitch occurred when we were trying to capture HDV footage via FireWire from a Canon HV10. The app’s preview screen would simply stop showing the preview footage. The content would capture, but we could not watch it as it was captured. OK, not a show stopper. More serious was our inability to burn more than one hour of HD footage to a Blu-ray disc. The app would either hang or reboot Windows Vista 64-bit. And it’s not like we didn’t bring enough firepower. We tested using this month’s Gateway FX6800 (page 76), which was equipped with a 2.93GHz Core i7-940, Radeon HD 4870 X2, and 6GB of RAM. We checked online and others have reported problems getting lengthy high-def video to Blu-ray disc, as well. Only by tweaking OS settings were others able to complete their projects. For the record, we had no problems burning the same project at DVD resolution.
When we contacted Adobe, our rep initially said the app is limited to burning roughly an hour of high-def resolution video. Adobe then later claimed to successfully burn two hours of high-def with no problems. So what’s the truth? All we know is that our project burned when we edited it to 17 minutes but choked at 59 minutes. As Madden says, “Boom!”
As a sanity check, we loaded Cyberlink’s PowerDirector 7 on the same box, took the MPEG-2 HDV files and encoded and wrote a one hour, 15 minute Blu-ray disc without a hitch.
Our other issues with Premiere Elements go back to the roots of the program. Since it’s based on the DNA of Premiere Pro, its main purpose is to make videos from traditional DV, HDV, or AVCHD cams. Try to feed it weird exotic video codecs and it chokes. The program, for example, can’t do something as basic as handling MS-DVR files, which can be created by almost any Vista PC with a TV tuner. Given people’s growing interest in consuming, editing, and “mashing up” video from dozens of sources, developers with stronger codec portfolios, such as Corel and Ulead, will likely win out.
With sub-par codec support and problems burning to Blu-ray discs, it’s pretty hard to recommend Premiere Elements 7.0. Maybe version 11.0 will be better.
yes, adobe sucks: due to terrible support, stupid download restriction, ignoring people requests & releasing beta version as final, exactly like what microsoft did with vista.
Thanks, Sina. But, uh, what's the point of posting that on a site where users who are successfully using the program are helping others work through their issues and challenges?
Wouldn't it serve its purpose better on a software review site?
the point is informing people about crapwares like this.
Adobe Photoshop Elements 7.0
review score: 9 out of 10
the only kick *** adobe product that i like is photoshop (csx).
You're welcome to do that, Sina. But why here? This is a site for people you've already bought the program.
And you've been at this two weeks now! Don't you have your own Web site that you can trash?
I mean, nobody comes over to your MySpace page and complains about you.
I'm sorry, but if you dedicated half as much time sorting out the problems with your system and your installation of PE, as you have filling up space on the forum, you'd probably have been editing smoothly, long before now.
Maybe you should post to the Adobe Video Lounge, as it is for non-technical issues and discussions. This is a technical forum of user to user interaction.
As Steve points out, the people here own PE already, so your "warnings" are falling of deaf ears. The users here are busy sorting out the issues, that are most often:
See you in the lounge.