19 Replies Latest reply on Jul 8, 2009 5:06 PM by Andrey V

    Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered

    Zero Graves

      Ok, I've been a long time fan of Permiere, and I just recently upgraded from 6.5 to CS 4. One of the main reason is because of the expanded video acceptible formats. However, I'm having issues running these new formats like vob files. The first time I imported it worked fine, but now it freeze up trying to generate the peak file I don't understand what could have possibly changed. Another issue I've had is with some of the avi files. They are in standard DV format and it wont accept them, or it will import the file and stuff is jumpy, sound tracks are off, or the sound is perfect but no picture. Anyone fill me in on what I need to do to fix these issues?

       

      My system has these specs:

       

      AMD 64 x2 dual 2.21ghz

      2gb Ram

      1600mhz MB bus

      256mb Sli PCIX G-Force

      over 1Tb hdd space

      SB X-Fi

       

      Side note: The system shouldn't be causing the issues right?

        • 1. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Some suggestions

           

          Specifically which version? What codecs are used, where do the VOB's come from.

          • 2. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
            Zero Graves Level 1

            I dont mean to be rude because I honestly appercaite actual help. However when the first inquiry question is answered in the first line of my post, I don't really have any faith in the person making the inquiry. Plus if it wasn't obvious by the way I covered every detail or specific I could in my question, I gave all the information I knew. Now to answer the only question that makes any sense to me, as I am aware vob files only come from DVDs. I'm hoping that someone reading this question will get what I'm saying, and know how to answer it because I don't know how to put any simpler. But I suppose that's not possible. I don't have a degree in this stuff, so it's not like I know any of the technical terms. I just do it as a hoby, so coming here was probably the wrong idea.

            • 3. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              VOB's created with Encore do not cause problems, other VOB's may cause problems, because they may contain additional info, like multi-angle, esoteric subtitles like Pashti, DTS sound and other things that are not supported.

               

              AVI is meaningless. Even though you may have been able to edit these in 6.5 does not mean that they are DV AVI type2. Use Gspot to figure it out.

               

              If you read the links in the link I gave you and would not feel offended because I ask questions you did not supply, we may be able to help you. Otherwise prepare for wild guesses and a long thread. Oh, your system should be able to handle DV. For MPEG it may be enough.

               

              You still did not say which version, 4.0, 4.01 or 4.1.0. Is that a difficult question? The answer is relevant to the issues you have.

              • 4. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                Zero Graves Level 1

                Alright fair enough, I thought CS4 was clear enough, but after looking at the version I have its 4.1 I apologize I assumed it was 4.0. There must have been a patch that I didn't see, damn autoupdates. As for offending me, you didn't really. My response had more to do with the generalisation of your question with no real specifics as to why you were asking them. So, I also realize encore can output vob files, but you asked where they came from. In technical terms Encore would be ignored in general because it is an Adobe Product and unless there is something seriously wrong with the program all adobe products should work together, leaving only DVDs for the acqusition of vob files. And this explination of Vob files was more or less the answer to the question I asked in reguard to them so you were write on the money. As for the link you provided, I've spent over half the day reading through stuff like that, based on first glance. I came here cause I was tired of the endless search looking for a specific or at the very least a possible theory as to what my issue was a possible solution, not look through more stuff that may have had no definate relation to my problem. So, forgive my fustration. This program has been a nightmare to adapt to, seeing as all the simple functions in 6.5 are now complicated as hell and the program doesnt seem to like stuff its suppose to accept. I paid good money for something that from my perspective doesn't work like it said it did.

                • 5. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Coming from 6.5 the change to CS4 is enormous and takes getting used to, so I can understand your feelings. I have used every version from 7.0 till now and have almost forgotten about A/B editing. After registration, you can choose the Lynda training offer. It may be helpful to watch several of these to help you with adapting to the new workflow.

                   

                  I use 4.1 and have tried importing VOB from commercial DVD's with AC3 5.1 sound and they import fine and give no trouble on the timeline. That is the reason I asked specifically where your VOB's came from. In general most VOB's should give no trouble, but like I said earlier, if they have specific features that are not supported, you may run into problems. After import you have to be patient and wait until the conforming has been done before continuing with editing. Maybe take a short break.

                   

                  As to the AVI's, in 6.5 type1 AVI did not usually cause problems, but generally can cause trouble in CS4. The symptoms with audio but no video are often caused by AVI's with DivX or Xvid codecs. Hence the suggestion to use Gspot to identify the codec.

                   

                  Be glad these autoupdates work, since 4.0 and 4.01 did not offer support for VOB's.

                   

                  One other remark. Your video card is not the most recent. Are your drivers up-to-date?

                  • 6. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                    Zero Graves Level 1

                    With the video card the ironic thing is that the driver update isn't really an update it disables the a/v portion so I can't link it to any extrenal video decive to record. Similar thing happens with driver update for my sound card. But like I said, the vobs suddenly started freezing during file coversion, or at least thats what I'm assuming it means by "generating peak file." I just don't understand how the first importing worked, yet when i reopened the program to finish working on it started freezing. Then i have a question in reguard to the avi file, is there anyway to convert them in to viable usible footage for cs4.

                     

                    As for the tutorials, I'm actually getting fustrated with them, Maya is a recent program I've picked up and started learning. Despite it's complexity, the tutorials are extremely accurate and when your looking for information, all you have to do is type in keywords and you pretty much get the answer your looking for on the first hit. Here, I've been lucky to hit in the same ball park with my searches. Anyway, with lynda tutorials are somplistic and well thought out but the lack of accuracy is killing me. I've watch several videos just to find out its the last one that had the information I was looking for.

                    • 7. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                      Harm Millaard Level 7
                      With the video card the ironic thing is that the driver update isn't really an update it disables the a/v portion so I can't link it to any extrenal video decive to record.

                       

                      What do you mean with this? The S-Video connector on the video card? If so, I think a S-Video connector was never of use with PR and certainly not to record/capture. Capturing can only be done over firewire, as is the case with playback on an external device. With regards to the audio driver, I know that a number of people prefer using on-board sound over a SB audio card. With SB you must be cautious to only install the driver and nothing else from the bloated software.

                       

                      Generating peak files is necessary for PR to properly display the wave form in the timeline. It may take some time and you just have to wait for PR to finish. Strange that it tries to recreate these peak files when reopening the project. It begs for how you setup your scratch disks, unless it did not finish the first time.

                       

                      How did you fare with Gspot and the codecs in the AVI's?

                      • 8. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                        Zero Graves Level 1

                        First off you assuming that my video card is a typical S video out, not a video in port. Its a video capture card. I guess I should have included G-Force 7 Series. It's 4 years old. the 512mb card had just come out when i bought mine. Its old, but not completely out of date, it runs maya without without issue and its requirements exceed adobe. Looking forward to geting my Mac whenever I get my finacial aid. Anyway, as for scratch disk, I have no idea what your talking about never had any program bug me about something like that. As for the avis thats a lot of files to check and going through them is going to take some time.

                        • 9. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Sorry I made that assumption, but it does not matter. Unless the manufacturer supplies you with working drivers, and it appears from your statement that it doesn't, the capture part will NOT work with CS4. You need firewire for capture. Nothing else works.

                           

                          If you don't know what scratch disks are, it is time to consult the help file or read the manual. Basically it tells the program where to store those peak files, where to store temp files for previews, etc.

                          • 10. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                            Zero Graves Level 1

                            You misunderstood my statement in relations to the driver update. The driver for the card is pnly a partial update, it updates the gfx part but disables the rest of card. In other words, the video capture is completely unusible once the update is installed which makes the card pointless to have, if I wanted a regular gfx card I would have bought one. Anyway, Scratch Disk, are you reffering to temp files and cache?

                            • 11. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                              As for the avis thats a lot of files to check and going through them is going to take some time.

                               

                              Unless the AVI's are from different sources, just running a few should give you all of the info needed.

                               

                              Here's a look at what you should be looking for with G-Spot:

                               

                              G-Spot Screen 01.jpg

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                Harm Millaard Level 7
                                In other words, the video capture is completely unusible once the update is installed which makes the card pointless to have

                                 

                                Even without the update it is completely UNusable in CS4. Times have changed since you bought the card. In the Premiere 6.x era it was customary to have a capture card like the DVRaptor or DVStorm, but that has long since passed.

                                 

                                The ONLY way to capture is via firewire.

                                 

                                Anyway, Scratch Disk, are you reffering to temp files and cache?

                                 

                                Yes and currently they are calles scratch disks.

                                • 13. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                  Zero Graves Level 1

                                  I think harm you need to take a step back and focus  less on CS4 and the details unrelated to the program it self. I understood that CS4 only gets its capture video from firewire now. However, you were so focused on it you didn't understand that the reason the update isn't an update is because it disables half the card, which means only the primary function is usible and its secondary function, the other half of the reason it was purchased years ago, becomes meaningless. I have other program I use the capture part for I've never nor ever will I use adobe for recording from a secondary device simply because it's been proven to be unrealible and strains the system more than necessary. As for the strach disk, this is what has been fustrating me for the past 5 years. Computer tech is becoming a multi-langual thing when it shouldn't be. It use to be one term meant one thing, if you said cache or tempory storage instead of scratch disk to start 90% of every computer user would know what your talking about, these new useless terms, useless because terms already exist, are only causing headaches. In additon, there is no option in the settings called "Scratch disk" so anyone looking at settings honestly has no clue hence another reason these words are useless and confusing.

                                   

                                  Anyway, I did look into this scratch disk thing and after reading the basic operation I understand that the files should be used on the systems fastest drive, so when I reopen the program I'll change the cache and tempory storage to my sta 700gb drive and see if that makes any difference.

                                   

                                  As for the avi files, they are in multiple codecs.

                                  • 14. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                    Zero Graves Level 1

                                    Alright, so new question in regaurd to this topic anyone know a good codec to convert too dealing with divx related encoded avi files?

                                    • 15. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                      Phil Griffith Level 2

                                      I would agree. Harm you need to take a step back and focus.Then.

                                      • 16. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                        Harm Millaard Level 7
                                        Alright, so new question in regaurd to this topic anyone know a good codec to convert too dealing with divx related encoded avi files?

                                         

                                        Searching with Google will find numerous converters. I've never needed one, but came across this one: http://www.ojosoft.com/video-converters/index.html

                                        I don't know if it is any good.

                                         

                                        However, you were so focused on it you didn't understand that the reason the update isn't an update is because it disables half the card, which means only the primary function is usible and its secondary function, the other half of the reason it was purchased years ago, becomes meaningless.

                                         

                                        I understood perfectly and you can revert to the older driver to regain functionality again, but that does not solve the issue with PR. It makes me wonder why the manufacturer updated the driver version, but disabled part of the functionality in this newer version. Did they have compatibility issues they could not solve?

                                         

                                        Anyway, your first step after reverting to the older driver should be to creact a new project using a DV preset, capture some clips from your DV camera and see if you still have the problems. If not, you will know that the other clips caused problems because of the codec.

                                         

                                        It was not my idea to call it scratch disks, that is the way Adobe calls it and as such they are mentioned in the manual and help file. Using other terms makes it much harder to find the information even though you may be used to other terms.

                                        • 17. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                          Zero Graves Level 1

                                          I didn't say, it's what you did call it sratch disk (I tried to make if a very generalised statement), but since its seems to be an adobe term people unfimilar with it wouldn't know what it was. Anyway, I fixed my codec problem with the avi files, i have to use two other programs I purchased a while back to make them usible. first convert them into one form then reconvert them using another converter I lose a little bit of the quality but nothing serious, only at close range can you see some of the pixilation, if I was doing this professionally, I'd be concerned but I'm not so its not big deal.

                                           

                                          Almost all of my question have been answered in this discussion, I'll check vob files later with the same thing i'm using for the avi files and see if that fixes the problem. I've also changed the "sratch disk" location to that drive I mentioned and it all seems to be working better, but this is windows so if it doesn't last more than a week I wont be supprised.

                                           

                                          Thanks to all those who contributed to solving or at least giving me new thoughts on how to deal with the issues at hand.

                                           

                                          On a side note: I actually asked in Nvidia about it a year or so ago when i was having issues with world of warcraft (its what possesed me to download the update in general) they said it was the 7 series line in general and it wasn't talored specifically to any model directly. So that why there is an issue between the update and the capture portion of the card. Never got an answer of while my SB is screwed up by creatives update though, one of my favorite sound companies and tech can't give me anything but automations.

                                          • 18. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            When handed a DivX encoded AVI, I always convert to DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV. I happen to use DigitalMedia Converter (~US$50), but many other converters exist, and a lot of them are freeware.

                                             

                                            As you know, DivX (and Xvid) are highly-compressed delivery formats/CODEC's. The quality from any conversion will never be as good as the source file, prior to DivX conversion, but if you, and your clients, can live with that loss, the DV-AVI Type II's will Import and edit fine.

                                             

                                            Only problem that I have ever had was that a very few of these converted files would show up in PrPro with a truncated Duration. Happens about 1:50, but has happened. When that does, I just Import that file into PE and immediately Export with the same, exact spccs. The resulting Exported DV-AVI Type II Imports perfectly into PrPro. Have yet to figure out what gives PrPro that bad Duration, as the file sizes are exactly the same, and G-Spot sees them as the exact same. Still, something is different. This may never happen to you.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Issues with Permiere CS4 that I can't get answered
                                              Andrey V Level 2

                                              Here is the thing. All new software is design to handle necessary data rate for demanding real time playback of HD and HDV and HDPro etc. formats. So every soft developing company changing the codes of their software to accommodate for required data rate output. So with that, all the drivers must be updated also all the hardware must be updated, plus on top of that the new 64bit system is developing and all the old hardware and drivers and software becoming obsolete, and it is not compatible with system, new speeds, and new requirements. That is why most of the old hardware is not working like it used to with new stuff, and if working some what, it does not have all the capability it used to have.

                                              So the smart thing to do, if you are planning to use your old hardware, not to upgrade your software. As for a new soft it would be wise to build new work station, and have on it operating system of 64bit with 6 or more gigs of ram and newest video card and lots of HDD space.

                                              So on Vista 64bit with 12gigs of ram and couple of Terra bits of HDD, and CS4 is working like a champ. I was impressed with the functionality and stability of the CS4 programs, so let go of my macbookpro with finalcut.