21 Replies Latest reply on Jul 9, 2009 9:03 AM by Averdahl

    HDV, AVCHD or What?

    sneedbreedley Level 1

      Well, it's July 2009. Assuming you have a powerful enough computer, does PPro CS4 easily support AVCHD? Or should I only look at HDV cameras?

        • 1. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
          sneedbreedley Level 1

          Isn't anyone editing HD on Ppro or are they all using FCP?

          • 2. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            It depends on a number of things. What workflow do you prefer, tape based or card based? How do you want to store the originals? How important are camera features, sensitivity, DR and ergonomics, etc. HDV is much easier to edit than AVCHD, so you don't need a top-of-the-bill PC and can buy a better camera within the same budget. If Jim comes in he will say neither, get AVC-I, others may say neither, get XDCAM-EX, like me.

             

            The question resembles the way Mobutu often started extremely long threads.

            • 3. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
              sneedbreedley Level 1

              I was a strict DVCAM man for years shooting with SONY DSR-500's. Now I've decided it's much cheaper to store raw foorage on hard rives so I'm ready to move away from tapes to internal HDD, SDHC cards or the like.

              • 4. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                In that case I would first look at the Sony PDW-F355. In handling comparable to the 500, but a giant step forward in quality. And the reliability and longevity of the Pro disks is far better than hard disks.

                • 5. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  I don't like temporal compression in my source footage.  It's just a bad idea from the start, and too many people have too many issues with it.

                   

                  That leaves DVCPRO HD or RED cameras as the only current HD choices, with support for AVC-I cameras coming along soon.

                  • 6. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                    sneedbreedley Level 1

                    Also, to capture HD video do I use a USB port? IEEE? My new Intensity Pro Card has HDMI inputs. Do I use those? Sorry, it'a whole new world.

                    • 7. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Capture via IEEE only. Nothing else works.

                      • 8. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                        jimvt

                        Harm,

                        Your last statement interests me - "Capture via IEEE only. Nothing else works."

                         

                        Can you please elaborate or point me to a link that explains this opinion?

                         

                        My interest is - in the move away from my professional, if old, SD editing system I just purchased and am building a reasonably fast core i7-based PC. As one of the few additional purchases that I plan to make this year, a video I/O card is one of them. (Aja, Matrox, etc) Good quality audio and video monitoring is one big reason for the card, but another is my interest in capturing footage from various camcorders/VTRs in a richer format than HDV or DV. For example, I'd think that capturing HDV footage through the HDMI port would allow a direct real-time digitizing in a higher format, such as DVCPro HD. As long as I had the needed disk through-put, why wouldn't that be a good plan to preserve quality and avoid a later trancode step?

                         

                         

                        Thanks,

                                 Jim

                        • 9. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Have a look here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2073425#2073425

                           

                          If you have a dedicated card like the AJA or BlackMagic, you can of course capture via HD-SDI. USB does not work for capturing, via HDMI you can't capture either. USB must be used for digital transfer outside of PR, like with XDCAM-EX but is not capture. HDMI can be used for display but again is not capture in the sense that PR understands.

                          • 10. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            via HDMI you can't capture either.

                             

                            Why do you say that?  The Intensity is designed to do precicesly that.

                            • 11. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Capturing is transferring all the data recorded to your hard disk. HDMI does not transfer all data. It only transfers the video part, not the timecode, not the metadata like date and time stamp or exposure data.

                               

                              Let me repeat: Capturing is data transfer, HDMI is video transfer, forfeiting all other data.

                              • 12. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                Ah, semantics.  OK.

                                 

                                But you should make that clear instead of leaving the reader to believe that he cannot get video into Premiere via HDMI, when he clearly can.

                                • 13. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  That was made abundantly clear in the link in post #9. Reread that link and you will see it was all covered there.

                                  • 14. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    A simple clarification to that same post 9 is much more efficient.

                                    • 15. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                      jimvt Level 1

                                      Very interesting. I have to admit that I completely bought the marketing buzz from both the camcorder makers and the card manufacturers which clearly implies that a more pristine signal will be captured via the HDMI versus HDV. I would be especially shocked if this was true (post DSP) of Canon's prosumer models - they make so much hype about HDMI.

                                       

                                      Thanks for saving me any money and effort to get an HDMI input on my next I/O card!

                                       

                                      I do hope someone responds to your request in that post asking if anyone knows of an HD camcorder with pre DSP output.

                                       

                                      Jim

                                      • 16. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                        I completely bought the marketing buzz from both the camcorder makers and the card manufacturers which clearly implies that a more pristine signal will be captured via the HDMI versus HDV.

                                         

                                        It can be for a live capture.  But few will do it that way.  Most shoot to tape first and then capture later.

                                        • 17. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                          Averdahl Level 3

                                          "HDMI does not transfer all data. It only transfers the video part, not the timecode, not the metadata like date and time stamp or exposure data."

                                           

                                          If one connect the FireWirecable and capture the HDMI signal the metadata, TC will indeed be transferred as well. I have done this many times just to get the TC in case i need to recapture the footage frame accurate. And yes, it works, the TC is there in the captured footage.

                                           

                                          I can control the camera over the FireWire interface as well when i capture this way.

                                           

                                          HDMI = Only video and no TC

                                          HDMI + Firewire = Video + TC

                                           

                                          /R

                                          • 18. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            Roger,

                                             

                                            Can you explain to me what the benefit of this approach is in comparison to just firewire?

                                             

                                            Have a look at this diagram and please explain where the advantage is.HDMI.jpg

                                            • 19. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                              sneedbreedley Level 1

                                              Back to my original question, does Ppro CS4 easily support AVCHD?

                                              • 20. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                Yes. Whether the hardware is powerful enough is another question.

                                                • 21. Re: HDV, AVCHD or What?
                                                  Averdahl Level 3

                                                  Can you explain to me what the benefit of this approach is in comparison to just firewire?

                                                   

                                                  Quality wise - Absolutely none and i have not even claimed that there is or should be any. I know all about "Once you have your shots on tape...". already and dont disagree on that.

                                                   

                                                  If one has the need to work with uncompressed HD or with the Cineform codec i think the benifit is that i dont need to transcode the footage when the FireWire capture is done. Any MPEG2 can be frustrating to work with for many reasons so the ability to easy conform the media into another codec in real time during the HDMI/HD-SDI capture for a smoother editing experience is worth it sometimes. And, HDMI + FireWire, HD-SDI + FireWire or Component + FireWire keeps the original timecode in the captured file for easy frame accurate re-captures when/if needed.

                                                   

                                                  Some people will disagree and some people will agree.

                                                   

                                                  The actual video capture is done throught the HMDI/HD-SDI interface while the FireWire cable only carries the timecode and give the user the ability to control the camera/deck. (I dont know if any metadata is carried over since i never use it nor have the need for it...)

                                                   

                                                  But again, there is no gain in picture quality. However, for post work with multiple render generations its a great benifit though as long as you avoid the Blackmagic Design Motion JPEG codec.

                                                   

                                                  Btw, HDV is 1440x1080.

                                                   

                                                  /R