6 Replies Latest reply on Jul 13, 2009 6:20 AM by Chuck A. McIntyre

    24p Advanced problems


      Hi there. If anyone who can help me with this issue I would greatly appreciate it.


      Ok so I am using a Panasonic DVX100a and shot a bunch of footage. I shot it in 24p advanced. I'm using Adobe Premiere CS4 and captured the footage via firewire into a DV 24p sequence. I'm able to edit it fine but am having sever problems with the picture quality. here's what's going on:


      1. My first issue is that everywhere I've looked online, everyone says you need to interpret footage and remove 24p pulldown BEFORE you drag clips to the timeline, otherwise it's too late. BUT, I started editing my footage and only after a few hours found out I needed to interpret the footage and remove pulldown. So I did this to the captured footage, and it effected the clips in my timeline, contradictory to what everyone has said about how you must do it before putting clips onto the timeline. Not a big deal, but I'm just wondering why it did this (maybe I have an update other people don't have?)


      2. I did a render test to see exactly what removing the 24p pulldown was doing and when I played the rendered clip back on Windows Media Player and VLC, with the 24p pulldown removed I have horrible interlacing, but with it NOT removed I have no interlacing but do have jittery footage. I understand that 24p will be jittery but this looks REALLY jittery. Again, this seems backwards to what I've read about how you need to remove pulldown in order to remove interlacing.


      3. With 24p pulldown not removed, I render the file as an MPEG with everything turned up - bitrate and quality. I set the frame rate to 24. When I play it back on VLC it looks decent but not very good. I ultimately want to upload this footage to Youtube so I want it to look nice but I understand it might not look phenominal. Is there a recommended render setting I should use?


      I maybe screwed myself by shooting in 24p advanced but instead of blowing it off and just shoting 30i next time I really want to learn the specifics of 24p advanced so I can use it properly in future projects. If anyone knows the answer to these problems, I would be grateful to hear them. Thanks.

        • 1. Re: 24p Advanced problems
          joshtownsend Level 2

          Are you talking about footage shot 24p or 24pa?


          If you shoot 24p then your timeline should have a frame rate of 29.976.


          If you want to edit 24pa footage then you use the 24pdv preset.


          If you know all of the above already then consider this:


          With the 4,1 upgrade Premiere pulls the extra frames out and give you 23.976 footage with having to 'interpret footage' every clip like you did before the upgrade (half those rants about having to do a pre-CS4.1 pulldown on 24pa footage were probably mine)


          Problem soved.

          • 2. Re: 24p Advanced problems
            SinJinQLB Level 1

            I'm talking about 24p Advanced. I know I have to edit in 24p dv preset, which is what I started the project with.


            The interlacing is becoming a real problem. i don't understand what I'm doing wrong. At this point I'm all mixed up. If someone could maybe outline a simply work flow for me to follow? I'm so deep into this thing and I have interlace issues scattered all throughout my movie.


            One of my biggest problems is finding a render setting that gives nice, good looking images. I look at other people's videos on youtube and they have crisp, clear images. Mine are coming out pixelated, grainy, jittery, and interlaced. Please, I'm at my wits end!

            • 3. Re: 24p Advanced problems
              SinJinQLB Level 1

              I *kinda* solved my problem. Not really. I went through my footage, frame by frame, and when it's interlaced, only the 4th frame is interlaced. the other 3 frames are progressive frames. This is in 24pa. Anyways, when i captured my footage, I captured one long file. I then chopped the long file into small "scenes" to move around the timeline. What''s wierd is that if I interpret footage to my one long, captured file and remove 24p pulldown, ir removes the interlaced frames on some of my scenes and PUTS IN interlaced frames in other scenes. You would think since it's one long, captured file, that by interpretting the footage and removing the 24p pulldown it would effect the all clips evenly. But no, it doesn't. When I don't check the remove pulldown box, then the clips that didn't have interlaced frames now do, and the ones with interlaced frames don't have them anymore. It's wierd - it's like Premiere is automatically removing the pulldown on some parts of my captured video file but not others. Does this make sense? Has anyone else experienced this??

              • 4. Re: 24p Advanced problems
                Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                I put together a DVD with 5 "Show Masters" on it last week. Just before our producer was headed out the door with the DVDs, one of our editors told me that Adobe Media Encoder defaulted to 24p on one of the clips I burned to DVD. He didn't catch it, so I had to re-do the show DVDs. The video played back "choppy".


                We have an experienced camera person in our office who has done everything from corporate video to hour long Hi-Def television shows. After I had a similar unpleasant experience with Adobe Media Encoder accidentally encoding one of my standard NTSC videos at 24p, I asked our  camera guy what 24p is good for. His opinion is, that it always looks like flickering, distracting crapola.


                So my question is... what is 24p good for? Is it supposed to simulate film of something when done "right" or processed some way?

                • 5. Re: 24p Advanced problems
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  what is 24p good for? Is it supposed to simulate film of something when done "right" or processed some way?


                  When done right, it very much looks like good 16mm film.



                  • 6. Re: 24p Advanced problems
                    Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                    I'm not a fan of the Cow, but I think this is a decent article:

                    Craig Meadows



                    "We also had some success with film look software and 24p video cameras but those never really were as good as something that was truly captured on film. The culprits with current affordable video technology being data compression, small CCD imagers, and the lenses that typically come with nearly all mainstream SD and HD video cameras."