27 Replies Latest reply on Sep 28, 2008 1:06 PM by Newsgroup_User

    HTML Email Problem

    kitster79 Level 1
      Hello,

      I am creating an HTML email. I sent the email to someone who opened it with Entourage on a mac - it looked great. Then I sent it to some people who use Microsoft Outlook - it had some issues - the main div tag was extending all the way to the right of the window, but I had set the div to a fixed width of 600px. Also the image maps that I had created for external links were now not over the locations I had put them on (they had shifted out of place)

      As I said, no problems in Entourage - it displayed and functioned exactly how I intended. But in Microsoft Outlook, I had the above issues.

      Any help would be much appreciated. I can send you the email so that you can see what I am talking about.

      If this is not the right place to post concerning HTML emails, I would appreciate some guidance as to where I should go.

      Thanks

      Kit
        • 1. Re: HTML Email Problem
          JoeDaSilva Level 4
          I'd use tables, not divs. Are you using inline styles?
          • 2. Re: HTML Email Problem
            Level 7
            I wouldn't use code anywhere near that complex in an HTML email. If your
            recipients are fairly typical, only a very small percentage will be using
            Entourage, so the fact that it does a good job is pretty much irrelevant,
            unfortunately!

            Most typical email recipients won't even see any of the images you include
            in your email. If you want them to see a neat, readable email, plain text
            with basic CSS styling is advisable. If you want to include a simple image
            or two, make sure the email looks fine without it, since that's what most
            people will see.

            --
            Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
            Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
            Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
            --


            "kitster79" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
            news:gbdpda$2mq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
            > Hello,
            >
            > I am creating an HTML email. I sent the email to someone who opened it
            > with
            > Entourage on a mac - it looked great. Then I sent it to some people who
            > use
            > Microsoft Outlook - it had some issues - the main div tag was extending
            > all the
            > way to the right of the window, but I had set the div to a fixed width of
            > 600px. Also the image maps that I had created for external links were now
            > not
            > over the locations I had put them on (they had shifted out of place)
            >
            > As I said, no problems in Entourage - it displayed and functioned exactly
            > how
            > I intended. But in Microsoft Outlook, I had the above issues.
            >
            > Any help would be much appreciated. I can send you the email so that you
            > can
            > see what I am talking about.
            >
            > If this is not the right place to post concerning HTML emails, I would
            > appreciate some guidance as to where I should go.
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Kit
            >

            • 3. Re: HTML Email Problem
              kitster79 Level 1
              Really? Why tables? Everyone seems to preach avoiding tables at all costs and that divs are the only way to go. Why do you think using tables as opposed to divs would make a difference?

              Here is my code...

              <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
              <html xmlns=" http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
              <head>
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
              <title>Untitled Document</title>
              <style type="text/css">
              <!--
              body {
              background-color: #311812;
              margin-top: 50px;
              margin-right: 0px;
              margin-bottom: 0px;
              margin-left: 0px;
              line-height: .9em;
              }
              #wrapper {
              margin-right: auto;
              margin-left: auto;
              width: 600px;
              }
              #footer {
              width: 600px;
              margin-right: auto;
              margin-left: auto;
              padding-top: 20px;
              color: #FFFFFF;
              font-family: Helvetica, Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
              font-size: 11px;
              text-align: center;
              }
              -->
              </style>
              </head>

              <body>
              <div id="wrapper"><img src=" http://as1.omni1031.com/common/8125882.jpg" width="600" height="385" border="0" usemap="#Map" />
              <map name="Map" id="Map">
              <area shape="rect" coords="69,355,235,378" href="mailto:solson@1031ticinvest.com" />
              <area shape="rect" coords="124,306,282,329" href=" http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&amp;rls=com.microsoft:en-us&amp;q=5775 wayzata blvd, 55146&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wl &lt; http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&amp;rls=com.microsoft:en-us&amp;q=5775 wayzata blvd, 55146&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N" target="_blank" />
              </map></div>
              <div id="footer">1031 &amp; TIC Investments, LLC. is a Branch Office of OMNI Brokerage Inc. <br />
              Securities offered through OMNI Brokerage, Inc. - Member FINRA/SIPC</div>
              </body>
              </html>
              • 4. Re: HTML Email Problem
                JoeDaSilva Level 4
                Designing for email clients is NOT the same as designing for browsers. Pretty much every characteristic of DIV's are ignored by gmail and outlook 2007. That leaves you with tables. Gmail for example strips the body tag, so don't plan on using that.

                You don't need to declare a doc type, as I don't think any email client pays attention to that.

                Just about every style you declare above aside from width, and the font related stuff, will be ignored.

                Instead of using padding or margin you'd use extra table columns in most cases. The best practice for background color is to use a table at 100% width with a background color (bgcolor).

                Here's a CSS cheatsheet:
                http://www.campaignmonitor.com/reports/Guide_to_CSS_Support_in_Email_2007.pdf
                • 5. Re: HTML Email Problem
                  Level 7
                  I got news for you. Entourage does a really crappy job with HTML emails.
                  Really crappy. I know. I use Entourage for my email.

                  --
                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                  Adobe Community Expert
                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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                  "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                  news:gbdqjd$45b$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  >I wouldn't use code anywhere near that complex in an HTML email. If your
                  >recipients are fairly typical, only a very small percentage will be using
                  >Entourage, so the fact that it does a good job is pretty much irrelevant,
                  >unfortunately!
                  >
                  > Most typical email recipients won't even see any of the images you include
                  > in your email. If you want them to see a neat, readable email, plain text
                  > with basic CSS styling is advisable. If you want to include a simple image
                  > or two, make sure the email looks fine without it, since that's what most
                  > people will see.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                  > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                  > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  > "kitster79" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                  > news:gbdpda$2mq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                  >> Hello,
                  >>
                  >> I am creating an HTML email. I sent the email to someone who opened it
                  >> with
                  >> Entourage on a mac - it looked great. Then I sent it to some people who
                  >> use
                  >> Microsoft Outlook - it had some issues - the main div tag was extending
                  >> all the
                  >> way to the right of the window, but I had set the div to a fixed width of
                  >> 600px. Also the image maps that I had created for external links were now
                  >> not
                  >> over the locations I had put them on (they had shifted out of place)
                  >>
                  >> As I said, no problems in Entourage - it displayed and functioned exactly
                  >> how
                  >> I intended. But in Microsoft Outlook, I had the above issues.
                  >>
                  >> Any help would be much appreciated. I can send you the email so that you
                  >> can
                  >> see what I am talking about.
                  >>
                  >> If this is not the right place to post concerning HTML emails, I would
                  >> appreciate some guidance as to where I should go.
                  >>
                  >> Thanks
                  >>
                  >> Kit
                  >>
                  >

                  • 6. Re: HTML Email Problem
                    Level 7
                    Email clients ignore everything between <head> and </head>. This means that
                    your use of CSS is pretty much confined to inline styles, or if you are
                    brave, you can put your <style> block AFTER <body>.

                    --
                    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                    ==================
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                    http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                    ==================


                    "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                    news:gbdtg7$7of$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                    > Designing for email clients is NOT the same as designing for browsers.
                    > Pretty
                    > much every characteristic of DIV's are ignored by gmail and outlook 2007.
                    > That
                    > leaves you with tables. Gmail for example strips the body tag, so don't
                    > plan on
                    > using that.
                    >
                    > You don't need to declare a doc type, as I don't think any email client
                    > pays
                    > attention to that.
                    >
                    > Just about every style you declare above aside from width, and the font
                    > related stuff, will be ignored.
                    >
                    > Instead of using padding or margin you'd use extra table columns in most
                    > cases. The best practice for background color is to use a table at 100%
                    > width
                    > with a background color (bgcolor).
                    >
                    > Here's a CSS cheatsheet:
                    > http://www.campaignmonitor.com/reports/Guide_to_CSS_Support_in_Email_2007.pdf
                    >
                    >

                    • 7. Re: HTML Email Problem
                      kitster79 Level 1
                      That's strange, I have had no issues with entourage at all. The only thing I ever have to do to see an HTML email properly is click on the "download images" button at the top of the preview panel which is hardly inconvenient.

                      What is your experience?
                      • 8. Re: HTML Email Problem
                        JoeDaSilva Level 4
                        I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick and mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen a ton of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too. One email had a skinny bar at the top that was the same color as the background, and the ALT information gave instructions on allowing the images.

                        Use of ALT tags is pretty much required though.

                        I'd love to see some statistical information on the number of people that allow images on average.
                        • 9. Re: HTML Email Problem
                          Level 7
                          Entourage doesn't display hyperlinks or bulleted lists properly,

                          --
                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                          Adobe Community Expert
                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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                          ==================


                          "kitster79" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                          news:gbe66v$i0u$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                          > That's strange, I have had no issues with entourage at all. The only thing
                          > I
                          > ever have to do to see an HTML email properly is click on the "download
                          > images"
                          > button at the top of the preview panel which is hardly inconvenient.
                          >
                          > What is your experience?
                          >

                          • 10. Re: HTML Email Problem
                            kitster79 Level 1
                            Thanks JoeyD. Some nice insight.
                            • 11. Re: HTML Email Problem
                              Level 7

                              "kitster79" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                              news:gbe66v$i0u$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                              > ...The only thing I
                              > ever have to do to see an HTML email properly is click on the "download
                              > images"
                              > button at the top of the preview panel which is hardly inconvenient.

                              Convenience really isn't the issue - it's just unnecessary, so few people do
                              it.

                              In the past year, I've received about 500 HTML emails, and I've clicked that
                              button only 2-3 times. The rest of the time I just read the email the way it
                              is, looking all scrappy. If I can't get the gist of it without the images,
                              then I delete it.


                              --
                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                              --

                              • 12. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                Level 7

                                "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                                >I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick and
                                > mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen a
                                > ton
                                > of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.

                                The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                looking terrible and looking like spam.

                                A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll stop
                                and read.


                                --
                                Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                --

                                • 13. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                  Level 7
                                  That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML parts, although if
                                  your preferences are to render incoming stuff in HTML, you won't see the
                                  text version.

                                  --
                                  Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                  Adobe Community Expert
                                  (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                  ==================
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                                  http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                  ==================


                                  "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                  news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >
                                  > "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                  > news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                  >
                                  >>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick and
                                  >> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen
                                  >> a ton
                                  >> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                  >
                                  > The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                  > work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                  > looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                  >
                                  > A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                  > stop and read.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                  > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                  > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                  > --
                                  >

                                  • 14. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                    Level 7
                                    How is that done, Murray?

                                    --
                                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                    --

                                    "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                    news:gbgduo$b6h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    > That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML parts, although
                                    > if your preferences are to render incoming stuff in HTML, you won't see
                                    > the text version.
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                    > Adobe Community Expert
                                    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                    > ==================
                                    > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                    > ==================
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                    > news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>
                                    >> "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                    >> news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                    >>
                                    >>>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick
                                    >>>and
                                    >>> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen
                                    >>> a ton
                                    >>> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                    >>
                                    >> The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                    >> work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                    >> looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                    >>
                                    >> A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                    >> stop and read.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                    >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                    >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                    >> --
                                    >>
                                    >

                                    • 15. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                      Level 7
                                      Mailchimp and UniversalEmail (WebAssist) both have the option to create a
                                      multipart email containing both HTML and Text versions. Doing this manually
                                      would be a major PITA!

                                      --
                                      Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                      ==================
                                      http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      ==================


                                      "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                      news:gbgek4$c04$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      > How is that done, Murray?
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                      > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                      > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                      > --
                                      >
                                      > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                      > news:gbgduo$b6h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >> That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML parts, although
                                      >> if your preferences are to render incoming stuff in HTML, you won't see
                                      >> the text version.
                                      >>
                                      >> --
                                      >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                      >> Adobe Community Expert
                                      >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                      >> ==================
                                      >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                      >> ==================
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                      >> message news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >>>
                                      >>> "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                      >>> news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick
                                      >>>>and
                                      >>>> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've
                                      >>>> seen a ton
                                      >>>> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those
                                      >>> tricks work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they
                                      >>> arrive looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                      >>> stop and read.
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --
                                      >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                      >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                      >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                      >>> --
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >

                                      • 16. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                        Level 7
                                        Ok, good to know. I bet Constant Contact does too.

                                        --
                                        Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                        Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                        Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                        --

                                        "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                        news:gbgfua$djj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        > Mailchimp and UniversalEmail (WebAssist) both have the option to create a
                                        > multipart email containing both HTML and Text versions. Doing this
                                        > manually would be a major PITA!
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                        > Adobe Community Expert
                                        > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                        > ==================
                                        > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        > ==================
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                        > news:gbgek4$c04$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >> How is that done, Murray?
                                        >>
                                        >> --
                                        >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                        >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                        >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                        >> --
                                        >>
                                        >> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                        >> news:gbgduo$b6h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >>> That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML parts, although
                                        >>> if your preferences are to render incoming stuff in HTML, you won't see
                                        >>> the text version.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> --
                                        >>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                        >>> Adobe Community Expert
                                        >>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                        >>> ==================
                                        >>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        >>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                        >>> ==================
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                        >>> message news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                        >>>> news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick
                                        >>>>>and
                                        >>>>> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've
                                        >>>>> seen a ton
                                        >>>>> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those
                                        >>>> tricks work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they
                                        >>>> arrive looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                        >>>> stop and read.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> --
                                        >>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                        >>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                        >>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                        >>>> --
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >

                                        • 17. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                          Level 7
                                          Most probably it does.

                                          --
                                          Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          Adobe Community Expert
                                          (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          ==================
                                          http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          ==================


                                          "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in message
                                          news:gbghgp$fji$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          > Ok, good to know. I bet Constant Contact does too.
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          > --
                                          >
                                          > "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                          > news:gbgfua$djj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >> Mailchimp and UniversalEmail (WebAssist) both have the option to create a
                                          >> multipart email containing both HTML and Text versions. Doing this
                                          >> manually would be a major PITA!
                                          >>
                                          >> --
                                          >> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          >> Adobe Community Expert
                                          >> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          >> ==================
                                          >> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >> ==================
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                          >> message news:gbgek4$c04$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>> How is that done, Murray?
                                          >>>
                                          >>> --
                                          >>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          >>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          >>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          >>> --
                                          >>>
                                          >>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                          >>> news:gbgduo$b6h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>> That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML parts,
                                          >>>> although if your preferences are to render incoming stuff in HTML, you
                                          >>>> won't see the text version.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> --
                                          >>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                          >>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                          >>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                          >>>> ==================
                                          >>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >>>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                          >>>> ==================
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                          >>>> message news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                          >>>>> news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick
                                          >>>>>>and
                                          >>>>>> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've
                                          >>>>>> seen a ton
                                          >>>>>> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those
                                          >>>>> tricks work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they
                                          >>>>> arrive looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that
                                          >>>>> I'll stop and read.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> --
                                          >>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                          >>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                          >>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                          >>>>> --
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>
                                          >

                                          • 18. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                            Level 7
                                            Yep. As does JangoMail.


                                            --
                                            Mark "elifgis." Boyd
                                            Keep-On-Learnin' :)

                                            Murray *ACE* posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:

                                            > Most probably it does.
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            > Adobe Community Expert
                                            > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            > ==================
                                            > http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            > http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            > ==================
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote in
                                            > message news:gbghgp$fji$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >> Ok, good to know. I bet Constant Contact does too.
                                            >>
                                            >> --
                                            >> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            >> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            >> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            >> --
                                            >>
                                            >> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
                                            >> news:gbgfua$djj$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>> Mailchimp and UniversalEmail (WebAssist) both have the option to
                                            >>> create a multipart email containing both HTML and Text versions.
                                            >>> Doing this manually would be a major PITA!
                                            >>>
                                            >>> --
                                            >>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            >>> Adobe Community Expert
                                            >>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            >>> ==================
                                            >>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >>> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
                                            >>> ==================
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com> wrote
                                            >>> in message news:gbgek4$c04$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>> How is that done, Murray?
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> --
                                            >>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            >>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            >>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                            >>>> --
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> "Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in
                                            >>>> message news:gbgduo$b6h$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>> That's why I send my HTML emails with both text and HTML
                                            >>>>> parts, although if your preferences are to render incoming
                                            >>>>> stuff in HTML, you won't see the text version.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> --
                                            >>>>> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
                                            >>>>> Adobe Community Expert
                                            >>>>> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
                                            >>>>> ==================
                                            >>>>> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials &
                                            >>>>> Resources http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials &
                                            >>>>> Resources ==================
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> "P@tty Ayers ~ACE" <signup1REMOVE@ayersvirtualREMOVE.com>
                                            >>>>> wrote in message news:gbgds7$b01$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                            >>>>>> news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>>I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every
                                            >>>>>>>big brick and
                                            >>>>>>> mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for
                                            >>>>>>> sure. I've seen a ton
                                            >>>>>>> of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of
                                            >>>>>> those tricks work on me, and I throw out most of those
                                            >>>>>> emails, because they arrive looking terrible and looking like
                                            >>>>>> spam.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it -
                                            >>>>>> that I'll stop and read.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> --
                                            >>>>>> Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                            >>>>>> Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                            >>>>>> Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate
                                            >>>>>> Worksheet --
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >



                                            • 19. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                              JoeDaSilva Level 4
                                              I fully understand that your preference is to ignore HTML/image formatted email, and I'm sure there's a percentage of people that also do that. But I don't get to many email solicitations that are in plain text anymore. From Adobe to Microsoft, Circuit City to Bestbuy, Buffalo Wild WIngs, Dell, Coldstone, Papa Johns, etc etc. I signed up for all of them and after I allow the images once, I don't have to click again. If I get something that I *didn't* opt-in to, I do the same thing that you do and delete it. I do that regardless if there's images or not though.

                                              Image heavy HTML emails are not going anywhere anytime soon. Hell, Fishbowl (www.fishbowl.com) sent 300 Million HTML emails (all opt-in) last year alone, and I'm sure 2008 will be bigger for them!

                                              quote:

                                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User

                                              The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                              work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                              looking terrible and looking like spam.

                                              A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll stop
                                              and read.


                                              --
                                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                              --




                                              • 20. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                Level 7
                                                As with spam, it's worthwhile to send out thousands of emails even if
                                                they're only read by a tiny percentage. It doesn't really matter to most
                                                senders whether thousands of us ignore or delete them, because they only
                                                care about the ones they actually sell something to. :-(

                                                --
                                                Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                --



                                                "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                news:gbgl19$jve$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                >I fully understand that your preference is to ignore HTML/image formatted
                                                > email, and I'm sure there's a percentage of people that also do that. But
                                                > I
                                                > don't get to many email solicitations that are in plain text anymore. From
                                                > Adobe to Microsoft, Circuit City to Bestbuy, Buffalo Wild WIngs, Dell,
                                                > Coldstone, Papa Johns, etc etc. I signed up for all of them and after I
                                                > allow
                                                > the images once, I don't have to click again. If I get something that I
                                                > *didn't* opt-in to, I do the same thing that you do and delete it. I do
                                                > that
                                                > regardless if there's images or not though.
                                                >
                                                > Image heavy HTML emails are not going anywhere anytime soon. Hell,
                                                > Fishbowl
                                                > (www.fishbowl.com) sent 300 Million HTML emails (all opt-in) last year
                                                > alone,
                                                > and I'm sure 2008 will be bigger for them!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                quote:

                                                Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                                >
                                                > The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                                > work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                                > looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                                >
                                                > A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                                > stop
                                                > and read.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                > Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                > Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                > --
                                                >
                                                >

                                                >
                                                >
                                                >

                                                • 21. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                  JoeDaSilva Level 4
                                                  Patty, with all due respect, where are you getting your information? How can you assume that only a "tiny percentage" of people read HTML email? The HTML read-rate of one of my previous employer was close to 40%, and it only tracked it if they activated the images (and thus communicated with our server).

                                                  You're certainly welcome to your own opinion on the matter but I find it kind of silly that you're recommending people ignore HTML email since it's not inline with your personal preference.



                                                  • 22. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                    Level 7
                                                    It's not just my personal preference, "JoeyD1978", it's the preference of a
                                                    lot of people. I have no need to debate it, though.

                                                    --
                                                    Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                    Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                    Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                    --

                                                    "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                    news:gbjc0b$3r7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                    > Patty, with all due respect, where are you getting your information? How
                                                    > can
                                                    > you assume that only a "tiny percentage" of people read HTML email? The
                                                    > HTML
                                                    > read-rate of one of my previous employer was close to 40%, and it only
                                                    > tracked
                                                    > it if they activated the images (and thus communicated with our server).
                                                    >
                                                    > You're certainly welcome to your own opinion on the matter but I find it
                                                    > kind
                                                    > of silly that you're recommending people ignore HTML email since it's not
                                                    > inline with your personal preference.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    • 23. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                      JoeDaSilva Level 4
                                                      Yes I agree, a lot of people don't read HTML emails. But I wouldn't call 25%-30+% a "tiny percentage". (link: http://www.mailchimp.com/resources/email_marketing_benchmarks.phtml )

                                                      I'm only pressing this issue because you present yourself as an "expert", and lot of people regard you as one. But I find it quite irresponsible of you to cite statistics when you're you know, wrong.
                                                      • 24. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                        Level 7

                                                        "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                        news:gbjhfv$a6s$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                        > Yes I agree, a lot of people don't read HTML emails. But I wouldn't call
                                                        > 25%-30+% a "tiny percentage". (link:
                                                        > http://www.mailchimp.com/resources/email_marketing_benchmarks.phtml )
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm only pressing this issue because you present yourself as an "expert",
                                                        > and
                                                        > lot of people regard you as one. But I find it quite irresponsible of you
                                                        > to
                                                        > cite statistics when you're you know, wrong.

                                                        (1) I didn't cite any statistics. My phrase "tiny percentage" was just my
                                                        impression.
                                                        (2) I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert in every subject related to
                                                        web design.
                                                        (3) You're the one citing statistics, and the ones you cite don't prove
                                                        anything.
                                                        (4) Generally, you're, ya know, wrong.
                                                        (5) Whatever.


                                                        --
                                                        Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                        Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                        Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                        --


                                                        • 25. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                          joeq Level 1
                                                          quote:

                                                          Originally posted by: Newsgroup User

                                                          "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                          news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...

                                                          >I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick and
                                                          > mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen a
                                                          > ton
                                                          > of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.

                                                          The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                                          work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                                          looking terrible and looking like spam.

                                                          A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll stop
                                                          and read.

                                                          "most" people ignore most marketing messages - whether print ads, direct mail, or html emails.... which is why smart marketers send out mass volumes at low cost. if they get a 5% response rate, they're a rock star.

                                                          and, i hate to tell you, but these "tricks" probably do work on you and most people. if you see a print ad for coca-cola, hear a radio spot, see a billboard on your way to work, and then see a tv commercial during the evening news, it's not really a coincidence that one might say "hmm - i think a coke would be good right about now."

                                                          no one thinks marketing "works" on them but, if it didn't, companies wouldn't be spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year doing it.


                                                          --
                                                          Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                          Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                          Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                          --




                                                          • 26. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                            joeq Level 1
                                                            agreed. if this list is well-targetted, a 40% (or greater) open rate is not unrealistic at all. i get them all the time.

                                                            quote:

                                                            Originally posted by: JoeyD1978
                                                            Patty, with all due respect, where are you getting your information? How can you assume that only a "tiny percentage" of people read HTML email? The HTML read-rate of one of my previous employer was close to 40%, and it only tracked it if they activated the images (and thus communicated with our server).

                                                            You're certainly welcome to your own opinion on the matter but I find it kind of silly that you're recommending people ignore HTML email since it's not inline with your personal preference.






                                                            • 27. Re: HTML Email Problem
                                                              Level 7

                                                              "joeq" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                              news:gbjm2o$fb6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                              >
                                                              quote:

                                                              Originally posted by: Newsgroup User
                                                              >
                                                              > "JoeyD1978" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
                                                              > news:gbe711$ivg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
                                                              >
                                                              > >I see no reason to avoid using imagery in HTML emails. Every big brick
                                                              > >and
                                                              > > mortar retail store uses the hell out of them that's for sure. I've seen
                                                              > > a
                                                              > > ton
                                                              > > of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too.
                                                              >
                                                              > The reason is that most people won't see the images. None of those tricks
                                                              > work on me, and I throw out most of those emails, because they arrive
                                                              > looking terrible and looking like spam.
                                                              >
                                                              > A nicely-formatted text email with actual information in it - that I'll
                                                              > stop
                                                              > and read.
                                                              >
                                                              > "most" people ignore most marketing messages - whether print ads, direct
                                                              > mail,
                                                              > or html emails.... which is why smart marketers send out mass volumes at
                                                              > low
                                                              > cost. if they get a 5% response rate, they're a rock star.
                                                              >
                                                              > and, i hate to tell you, but these "tricks" probably do work on you and
                                                              > most
                                                              > people. if you see a print ad for coca-cola...

                                                              The phrase "these tricks" in my post refers to JoeyD1978's statement: "I've
                                                              seen a ton of tricks to get people to click the "view images link" too."

                                                              As I said, these tricks do *not* work on me. :-)

                                                              We *weren't* discussing advertising in general and its psychological effects
                                                              upon people.


                                                              --
                                                              Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
                                                              Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
                                                              Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
                                                              --