20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 5, 2009 1:34 PM by charlie@carehart.org

    Creating a project resentment?

    henkemike Level 1

      How will Adobe persude users to use the project convention of CFBuilder, when some ColdFusion developers may not want to.  Is the File view an option?  Are there other alternatives?

        • 1. Re: Creating a project resentment?
          RamKulkarni Level 2

          The new file view is also not an option as of now, because that also require you to select a project. RDS file view is an option to create file/folders without selecting a project.

           

          -Ram

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Creating a project resentment?
            henkemike Level 1

            Could CFBuilder automatically create projects such as Tasktop does?  It setups projects in the navigator view that represent the Desktop and My Documents.  Maybe during installation, CFBuilder would ask which drives/folders (mapped, local, etc) to create projects for.

            • 3. Re: Creating a project resentment?
              RamKulkarni Level 2

              Yes, that is certainly one option, but it would still mean that you will be working within Project when creating a new file/folder.

               

              Note that you can easily create a project by promoting a folder to project (from context menu on the folder) in the File view. This creates a general project. You can convert that to CF project by applying CF Nature to it.

               

              -Ram

              • 4. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                henkemike Level 1

                True, but users might be more acceptive.  I am trying to think of an acceptable solution for users like Bjorn from Forta's post.  http://forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2009/7/13/Getting-Started-With-The-New-ColdFusion-Builder  I don't see the issue with creating projects but there are others that do and is a major hurdle for them.

                • 5. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                  RamKulkarni Level 2

                  If many users think this is a major hurdle then we might look at the possibility of creating a menu option in File->New and/or in File view to create new files without project.

                   

                  -Ram

                  • 6. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                    Ron.Stewart Level 1

                    Why reinvent this particular wheel when Eclipse's "Remote System Explorer" perspective (included in at least some of the stock Eclipse downloads from eclipse.org) already has this capability?

                    • 7. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                      charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Hey Ram, can you explain why you say that the File view is "not an option"?

                       

                      I have found that even without a project created, it works, and does let one look at any file on the file system (or of course, and FTP server). Granted, the first time I did it, it popped up an error, but after that, it worked fine.

                       

                      Now, maybe what you're thinking of is that there are aspects of the tool which won't work "well" without a project (and connection to a server), but for most editing needs, it seems to work well. Care to elaborate?

                       

                      Given the angst some feel about projects, it seems worth being clear on this.

                       

                      That said, I will also add that those with a beef about projects should just try creating one. It's easy enough. It can just be a pointer to an existing code directory. Nothing more, really.

                      • 8. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                        charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        @cfron, when you refer to the "remote system explorer", do you mean for exploring files? or for the "new file" feature Ram was speaking of in the previous message of the thread? It's a little hard to tell in this forum system. :-)

                         

                        As for creating unnamed new files, as Ram referred to, that's certainly an interesting problem (though separate from the bigger resentment of projects that some feel, as Imike referred to in the start of the thread.)  I'd be curious: could Adobe not leverage the interesting looking

                        file>new>other>untitiled files feature? That has options to create untitled html, css, js, and other files. Adding support there for CFM files would seem the solution to that problem. Is it possible?

                        • 9. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                          RamKulkarni Level 2

                          Charlie, yes you can open CFML files from the File View. But you cannot create a new file from there. If you select option to create a new CFML file, the wizard still asks you to select a project. We may add an option to select a folder from file system in CFML page wizards to solve this problem.

                          • 10. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                            henkemike Level 1

                            Charlie, Remote System Explorer is a view from the Eclipse Target Management project.  http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm/  It is in the Java EE package so some ColdFusion Eclipse users might already have it without installing it.  Adobe should consider bundling it instead of reinventing the wheel.  It also has a nice, "locate on disk" feature for files along with ftp, telnet, etc.

                            • 11. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                              Ron.Stewart Level 1

                              @Charlie: Remote System Explorer is a plugin -- as Mike indicated -- that allows the user to browse both local and remote filesystems from inside Eclipse. It also allows for the creation of new files on those filesystems (including CFML files), including within existing projects. It uses whatever editors the user has installed within their Eclipse to support editing of those files.

                               

                              One of my longtime coworkers who has always been a big fan of HomeSite/CFStudio was always resistant to even try Eclipse/CFEclipse -- based in part on the project-centric approach of Eclipse -- until I showed him this.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Wow, I feel like a punching bag, with 3 quick jabs in the last 3 notes. I was just trying to move the conversation along, guys.

                                 

                                So fair enough, the Remote System Explorer plugin is a useful option to be considered, but what about the File tab that's provided already? Is that not at least a little better than nothing? I'm one of those former HomeSite+ folks who had the same issues with projects. But the file tab seems to be doing a fair job (and adds direct FTP support, without need to connect through a project, though that's still an option, too.)

                                 

                                I hear you guys saying that the Remote System Explorer goes one better and allows creation of new files. This is an interesting thing about the Files tab: if you right-click on a folder, it does offer a context menu option to create a New>File (or New>ColdFusion Page), but sadly it's not smart enough to put that in the selected directory. It makes you pick one (and seems only to see projects as their available parents). That seems a bug, because the same New menu offers a New>New Folder option, and that IS created in place in that file directory, so the smarts are there.

                                 

                                (More curious, there is another "New>Folder" option (as opposed to New>New Folder), but that one operates instead like the file options above it and makes you select a project directory. Maybe that New>New Folder was added by Adobe or Aptana to work smarter about creating new directories in the Files tab, and the same approach could be used to work for files, too.)

                                 

                                Finally (as both another help for using projects, and another curiosity about that File tab problem), if you DO create a project, then in the navigator tab, if you right click on a folder there, its New>File (or New>ColdFusion Page) DOES presume to create the file within the selected directory.

                                 

                                I hear some saying "let's just get the System Explorer plugin included", and I'm not arguing against that, but if the File tab (which I assume comes with Aptana) will be staying, since the "New>New Folder" option works as expected, maybe a New>New File" option could be made to work the same way.

                                 

                                If it feels to anyone reading this that I'm fighting you (or the other 3 in the thread), I'm really not. I'm just participating as an objective observer. I don't have a dog in the hunt. I do realize that some choices may be easier than others, on the inside.  I'm just offering ideas. No problem if they aren't accepted.

                                 

                                /charlie

                                • 13. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                  henkemike Level 1

                                  Interesting behavior with the Aptana's File view inside CFBuilder.  I'll have to step through each of your scenerios.  Wonder if it does the same with a stand-alone version of Aptana Studio or happens only within CFBuilder.

                                  • 14. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                    charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I'll have to admit I've not yet tried Aptana alone (standalone or as a plugin), to compare. Pay close attention as well to the version of Aptana that Adobe has bundled with CFB (as shown in in the help>about buttons). I see that it's 1.5.0.25222. That may be different than any released version of Aptana, as Adobe could have an arrangement to incorporate a newer version than is yet released (something that's been rumored on blogs and podcasts--I know nothing myself).

                                     

                                    /charlie

                                    • 15. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                      Ron.Stewart Level 1

                                      @Charlie: no punches (not even jabs) thrown; apologies if you felt like a punching bag.

                                       

                                      I'll have to play a little with the Aptana part of this to see. I haven't used Aptana in quite some time. My experience with it was not all that great (it tended to be slow, heavy, and pretty invasive in how it tried to take over my Eclipse installation). Regarding the version: looking at the Aptana site, it looks like the current version is 1.5.1.x, so if the version you are showing is correct, it may or may not be a completely apples-to-apples comparison with the version upon which CFB is based.

                                      • 16. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                        charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that to you alone, Ron. I was responding to the 3 notes I found first thing this morning from you, Mike, and Ram, responding to my notes of last night, all of which focused on the Remote System Explorer, when I'd offered some other thoughts, too. That's what felt a little "punchy" to me, or made me feel that way, I guess. Anyway, it's all good.

                                         

                                        Yes, so comparing the CFB Files features to a native Aptana one (as mentioned in a note earlier today from Mike) will be a little challenging given their differences. That's really all I was getting at, when he said he would step through the scenarios I had shared.

                                         

                                        /charlie

                                        • 17. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                          RamKulkarni Level 2

                                          Charlie, I was not referring to Remote System Explorer at all in my post. I was referring to File View that is already bundled with CFB and said that we might add support for selecting folder (along with project) in CFML wizards. This would let you create new CFML files from File View also.

                                          • 18. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                            charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            OK, Ram, I misspoke. You didn't mention remote system explorer, but when I made my "punching bag" comment, I did have in mind that where I had written just before that:

                                             

                                            "I'd be curious: could Adobe not leverage the interesting looking file>new>other>untitiled files feature? That has options to create untitled html, css, js, and other files. Adding support there for CFM files would seem the solution to that problem. Is it possible?"

                                             

                                            You replied instead:

                                             

                                            "Charlie, yes you can open CFML files from the File View. But you cannot create a new file from there. If you select option to create a new CFML file, the wizard still asks you to select a project. We may add an option to select a folder from file system in CFML page wizards to solve this problem."

                                             

                                            Is there any chance you guys will be able to add CF support to the "untititled files" feature?

                                             

                                            /charlie

                                            • 19. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                              RamKulkarni Level 2

                                              Charlie, just wanted to clarify that my first reply to your post was in response to your question -

                                              Hey Ram, can you explain why you say that the File view is "not an option"?

                                              • 20. Re: Creating a project resentment?
                                                charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Thanks, Ram.

                                                 

                                                I'll say that's a problem with these forums: even if we read them on the web, there's no indication of hierarchy, so we can't tell what a message is in reply to.

                                                 

                                                Worse, if one does use the web form, there's no provision for including a copy of the message to which one is replying. Granted, we would want people to leave only enough to make that clear, but it would be nice if it was even an option.

                                                 

                                                Better still, it would just be nice if the forum had a way to represent the hierarchy (even if the display wasn't the default). I'm sure this has caused plenty of confusion in other forums/threads.

                                                 

                                                /charlie