21 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2009 2:06 PM by flbreen

    Jerky Fast Forward Playback

    flbreen Level 1

      After using my new Dell i7 PC and CS4 for several weeks my only problem seems to be jerky video when I fast forward or rewind.

      Harm suggested that I reformat and build a faster Vista system but with work backing up I am not in a position to do that now.

      I am wondering if the problem could be some kind of incompatability between CS4 and my graphics card.

      I have the ATI Radeon HD 4850.

      As far as I know I have installed the latest driver.

        • 1. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Today the latest available driver for your video card is version 9.06, but the 9.07 version will be out by next week.

           

          Your video card should not be a bottleneck for fast forward or rewinding of HDV material. It has plenty of muscle to do that without hiccups. This of course requires a sufficient data stream to the video card, to keep it busy. The reason that the video card does not receive data fast enough to display without hiccups can be twofold.

           

          1. Your disk setup is just not fast enough, or

          2. There are other processes running in the background that  take too much resources.

           

          Not much you can do about your disk setup at the moment, but I have asked you before to post a screenshot from Process Explorer, because that may show what other processes may take away resources from PR, causing this behaviour.

           

          Go to Sysinternal Utilities and extract ProcExp to your Windows directory and start the program. It will show all running processes. That info can give us as clue as to what can be improved. Meanwhile make sure that UAC is turned off, as well as the Sidebar and Aero.

          • 2. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
            flbreen Level 1

            Harm

             

            I put the process explorer program in my Windows folder and ran it.

            I don't know which item you need to see on the screen shot or if I need to be running premiere pro.

            Screen3 - no applications

            Screen4 - Premiere Pro running with fast forward video running.

             

            Thanks

            Frank Breen

            • 3. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Frank,

               

              If you are not using your Wacom tablet in PR, maybe you should turn it off before starting PR.

               

              Definitely turn off SearchIndexer, it will slow down your system significantly and with your disk setup could well be the source of your problems. You also want to disable Sidebar altogether. That is another resource hog you do not want active on an editing machine.

               

              Dell Dock is a typical Dell program. I don't know what it does, but most of the time manufacturer supplied software looks sexy, but has no value added to an editing rig. I suggest you turn that off as well.

               

              Let us know if this helps.

               

              BTW turning these services off, is done by selecting the process, right clicking and selecting Kill Process Tree. For Search Indexer, go to My Computer, right click, select Manage/Disk Management, select your drive(s), right click, select properties and untick Index this drive for faster searching.

              • 4. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                flbreen Level 1

                Harm

                 

                I shut off SearchIndexer and Sidebar and I noticed no improvement in FF performance.

                I didn't shut off Wacom tablet because I use the Watcom tablet for my mouse.

                I could give turning off Watcom a try.

                 

                I attached my disk manager screen.

                 

                Just to describe exactly what happens: When I hit the (lower case L) key to play everything is fine.

                Then I hit  (lower case L) key again and the viewing window sputters (freezes and releases showing stills) for about 5 seconds.

                Then it seems to catch up and run fine in FF.

                It is that 5 seconds when I don't know where I am that causes the problem.

                Have you heard of someone with this exact problem?

                • 5. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                  JBrown321 Level 1

                  I have the same problem. I am on a Vista 64 i7 920 Geforce 285 with two WD veliciraptors set to raid 0 for my scratch/media drive and two mirrored drives for my projects and one drive for OS. I have the same problem FF and RW video through the timeline. Playback is fine, rendering is fine and fsat, jogging through the footage is horrible.  Not to mention the issue where we cannot see both program and external monitors together really stinks.

                  • 6. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Even though, IIRC, you have a raided C drive, my guess is that this single disk is just not quick enough to feed all necessary data to you video card. I suggest you try adding another disk (maybe borrow one for the test) and put all your media on this disk and leave the rest where it is. Upon opening your project you need to tell where the media files are. Normally pointing to one file will allow Adobe to find the rest of the files. I think this will be the improvement needed, apart from the indexing you turned off and the sidebar that you turned off as well.

                    • 7. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                      JBrown321 Level 1

                      My c drive is my OS drive and is actually one physical drive. The drive I am running the footage off is a raid0 with 2 drives(drive D). Even when I play my clips from the other drives(2 raid 1 drives for saving projects) it stutters as well. I can't seem to see any improvemnet with the raid 0 settup for my media and the raid 1 setup for my projects.

                      • 8. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                        flbreen Level 1

                        Harm

                         

                        I have 2 internal drives in raid 0.

                        I think you were suggesting that I reformat and set those drives up as C: and D: and disperse files among them and a third esata  drive that I would have to add to my system.

                        • 9. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                          flbreen Level 1

                          I am glad to find someone with the same PC and the same problem.

                          This FF problem seems rediculous.

                          My system does everything else so well - it must be trivial to FF through video smoothly.

                          My 4 year old PC does it it beautifully with Premiere Pro 1.5.

                          As you mentioned jogging through the footage is horrible and that is what I find myself doing all the time.

                           

                          I have the sick feeling that this problem is a very tough one and it cannot be solved by stripping down Vista.

                          • 10. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                            blueridgeview

                            brown2840 wrote:

                             

                            My c drive is my OS drive and is actually one physical drive. The drive I am running the footage off is a raid0 with 2 drives(drive D). Even when I play my clips from the other drives(2 raid 1 drives for saving projects) it stutters as well. I can't seem to see any improvemnet with the raid 0 settup for my media and the raid 1 setup for my projects.

                            That velociraptor setup is extremely fast   There is no way that your setup shouldn't be way more than sufficient.  I have two WD black 640 drives in RAID 0 and my array sliced for additional speed.  I also have an ati 4870 and i7 920 running at ~3.8ghz.  I have been working with premiere elements 7, and have been monitoring my CPU usage.  It appears to me that premiere elements is not using the 4 cores/8 hyperthread cores as efficiently as the program could.

                             

                            I would be willing to bet that version 8 will have considerably improved core i7 efficiency; and probably better gpu utilization as well.  I like the program, don't get me wrong, but it does seem like the program is unable to utilize all available resources.  (Note that I am using elements not pro, as well as x64 OS).

                            • 11. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                              blueridgeview Level 1

                              Meanwhile make sure that UAC is turned off...

                              Harm:  I think this is the second time I have read this.  I was hoping to learn what the justification is for this recommendation.  Any links would be helpful.  Thanks.

                              • 12. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                Since you are using XP64 and not Vista, you will probably never have noticed that the security centric approach of Vista requires for about each and every action a nagging yes/no confirmation asking if you are sure about the intended action. In fact, the program is treating you like a three year old,  whom you have to ask "Are you sure" with each step he takes. It drives you crazy, just like those stupid advertisements that pop up on a lot on internet pages and you have to close them every time, just to see the information you were looking for, but that is hidden from view by those advertisements.

                                 

                                Turning off UAC removes all those nagging "Are you sure" questions.

                                • 13. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                  blueridgeview Level 1

                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                   

                                  Since you are using XP64 and not Vista, you will probably never have noticed that the security centric approach of Vista requires for about each and every action a nagging yes/no confirmation asking if you are sure about the intended action. In fact, the program is treating you like a three year old,  whom you have to ask "Are you sure" with each step he takes. It drives you crazy, just like those stupid advertisements that pop up on a lot on internet pages and you have to close them every time, just to see the information you were looking for, but that is hidden from view by those advertisements.

                                   

                                  Turning off UAC removes all those nagging "Are you sure" questions.

                                  Ok, I am actually running Win 7 RC-1 x64, so I am aware of what UAC is.  Where I misunderstood was I thought you were saying to turn off UAC to increase system performance, when you were actually saying to turn it off for convenience.  I understand what you meant now.

                                  • 14. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                    flbreen Level 1

                                    I have Vista 64 and I just turned off UAC and I think I noticed a slight improvement but my FF still stinks.

                                    It seem to me that there is something wrong with this system (Premiere Pro CS4).

                                    Shutting off several Vista utilities has made almost no difference.

                                    I am trying to jog through raw uncompressed AVI footage that I believe is the easiest footage to jog through.

                                    Another observation I have made is that when I scale down and put 3 video tracks (mini screens) on the screen at one time PP renders all 3 with no hesitation.

                                    When I play this video the CPU usage jumps up to 70%.

                                    When I FF through a single video track ther is no jump in CPU - it stays under 7%.

                                    It seems to me that when I FF Premiere Pro should increase it CPU usage but it doesn't.

                                    For other rendering tasks it does pull up the CPU usage when it needs it.

                                    • 15. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      The fact that the CPU load stays so low is logical. There is nothing to be done by the CPU, no rendering, no encoding, to transitions or effects to be calculated. When using FF the only thing that needs to be done is getting the data from disk to the video card for display and that is where the bottleneck is. The problem is that I can't replicate your problems with XDCAM, HDV or DV, because I have an extravagant disk setup with average read transfers in excess of 850 MB/s, so when I say "it runs like a Formula 1 car", that does not help you because our systems are incomparable.

                                       

                                      Uncompressed AVI has one major drawback, it takes lots of disk space, and therefore the transfer from disk to video card may be an even greater bottleneck than when using normal DV. Uncompressed takes about 65 GB/h versus 13 GB/h for DV. Do you have the same problems with DV material? If not, then it is beyond doubt that your disk setup is the culprit.

                                      • 16. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                        blueridgeview Level 1

                                        The problem is that I can't replicate your problems with XDCAM, HDV or DV, because I have an extravagant disk setup with average read transfers in excess of 850 MB/s..


                                        WOW

                                        Please tell me your setup for 850MB/s.  And is the sustained read or burst??  And here I thought my average 270 MB/s was good.

                                        • 17. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          PCResults.jpg

                                          This is my setup, and below the HDTach results om my media drive:

                                           

                                          Areca_HDTach1.jpg

                                          It is rather extreme, I admit....

                                          • 18. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                            flbreen Level 1

                                            Harm

                                             

                                            I am working with DV from MiniDV casettes at 13 GB per hour.

                                            I was working on an old XP system with Premiere 1.5.

                                            I stored all of my video from tape on a USB external drive.

                                            I could import those files to my Premiere project and jog through the footage with no problem.

                                            That means that my 4 year old USB connection could bring in data fast enough for Premiere.

                                            And it didn't matter where the footage files or the scratch file were stored.

                                            Fast forward was never an issure with DV files.

                                            My new system has trouble with FF with a DV file on the internal drive - that doesn't make sence to me.

                                            But I will follow your instructions and rebuild the system when I get a chance.

                                            I did attempted to to do a project with HDV.

                                            Premiere produced .mpeg files when I captured the tapes.

                                            I had so many problems that I gave up and went back to DV with the hope of make BluRay DVDs some day.

                                            When I played and edited the .mpeg files they played well at normal speed and got choppy in FF.

                                             

                                            Frank

                                            • 19. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                              blueridgeview Level 1

                                              12x 1TB Samsung RAID30.....just...wow.

                                              • 20. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                Frank,

                                                 

                                                All your experiences make no sense to me. You SHOULD be allright, but you aren't. I just don't know what could be wrong. If you can do me a favour, can you attach your DXDIAG.TXT and possibly your MSINFO.NFO file so I can have a look. This is all spelled out in the FAQ How to get help... and this link contains two links, the latter spells it out in the second part:

                                                 

                                                Some suggestions

                                                 

                                                Thanks for your effort.

                                                • 21. Re: Jerky Fast Forward Playback
                                                  flbreen Level 1

                                                  Harm

                                                   

                                                  As soon as I can I will get going on your suggestion.

                                                  I made another observation about my system.

                                                  The Timeline window also suffers from jittering.

                                                  Particularly when I put the lock on a few of the tracks and then I try to scroll the sequence.

                                                  Instead of the smooth movement that I would expect, it jitters its way along.
                                                  There must be some problem with the way CS4 interfaces with graphics system on this computer.

                                                   

                                                  Frank