14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 25, 2009 11:38 AM by the_wine_snob

    Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?

    Suntower Level 1

      Hi,

       

      I've discovered the wonders of various fx in AE. I'd like to render some MPGs with these fx, in effect replacing them. If I were to do this, ie. 'print' the fx onto the source MPGs I use in my Premiere project, will the 'effect' show up in the Premiere project?

       

      I'm trying to avoid having to import the newly rendered files into the Project and then laboriously replace all the clips one at a time with the 'effected' version. I thought that the 'clips' simply read from the source video files. My hope is that if you change the source video you'll change the resultant project clips. Have I got that right?

       

      TIA,

       

      ---JC

        • 1. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
          the_wine_snob Level 9
          My hope is that if you change the source video you'll change the resultant project clips. Have I got that right?

           

          Maybe I am not following you, JC, but you can edit in PrPro, then use the Adobe Dynamic Link (DL) to AE to bring your Sequence into AE for any Effects work in the created AE Comp. With DL, you should be able to get changes to flow between the two programs.

           

          Perhaps it's just me, not following what you want to do.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
            Suntower Level 1

            OK. I have about a gazillion little clips in my current video masterpiece. They are cut up from about 10 MPGs.

             

            After fooling around in AE I realised that there are a couple of effects that I want to apply to all the clips derived from 7 of those MPGs.

             

            Now... in my DAW, if I apply an effect to a source WAV file (the MPGs in PP?) the change will be reflected in -every- 'clip' in the song because the clips are simply reading from the source WAV. I'm -hoping- that this works the same way in PP.

             

            I was hoping to import each of the MPGs to AE, run them each through the effect in the 'Render Queue' and then when I opened the original project back in PP, presto!, all the clips would have the effect.

             

            Otherwise, I have to go into each clip and send it to AE, apply the effect and then send it back into PP. That's -hundreds- of edits.

             

            Does that make it a bit clearer? Or am I dimmer than a solar powered night light on this?

             

            ---JC

            • 3. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Close Premiere.  Apply your effects in AE.  Render out new MPEG files (it will not replace originals).  Move the old MPEGs to a new folder (never delete original media).  Put the new ones into the original folder, and give them the same names as the originals.  When you open Premiere, it should read the new MPEGs with effects applied.  It will likely have to reindex, as these are technically new files, and Premiere knows it.  But your edits should remain unaffected.  (I say that from a theoretical standpoint.  The exact GOP scheme of the new MPEGs might give you issues.)

              • 4. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                the_wine_snob Level 9
                (never delete original media).

                 

                Good advice.

                 

                Also, I would first do a Save_As and maybe increment the Project name, or similar, so you still have your original PrProj file, in case something goes haywire. To use it, you'd need to Copy media about a bit, but you'd not have lost anything in the process.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  The incremental Premiere project name will have no effect here, Bill.  Both versions will be reading the same altered media.

                  • 6. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Jim,

                     

                    That was why I mentioned that one would "have to Copy the media around a bit." Should the incremented Project fail, for whatever reason, then all JC would have to do is replace the AE Rendered MPEG with the originals - the ones that you wisely suggested saving. Personally, I'd just change the names on the folders, holding the media files, keeping them on the same HDD, of course, and then the original PrProj file would revert to the originals, as they would be in the folder, where they once resided. One could also just Copy the AE versions elsewhere, and then Copy the originals back to that folder. Basically a "six of one... " situation.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      Should the incremented Project fail, for whatever reason, then all JC would have to do is replace the AE Rendered MPEG with the originals

                       

                       

                      That would apply to both, hence no need for an incremental version.  See?

                      • 8. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                        Suntower Level 1

                        OK, I rendered the FX in AE and then replaced the source MPGs and opened the project in Premiere. Worked great. But then...

                         

                        1. I can't seem to Save As. Or rather I =can=, but when I attempt to open the new version of the project? The progress bar hangs at about 70%.

                         

                        2. Worse yet, when I try to Export to Media Encoder, all appears to go well, but when I hit 'Start', the job ends after 3 seconds with nothing done. However, ME seems to -think- it succeeded. No error msg.

                         

                        Any ideas on how to troubleshoot?

                         

                        ---JC

                        • 9. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                          Suntower Level 1

                          This just in...

                           

                          I tried Media Encoder again and this time I got a yield sign in the Status column. I click on it and get an error log. OK, it says 'Source Not Found' and the file name is the project name from Local Settings/Temp (I guess this gets passed to ME?)

                           

                          So I replaced all the source files with the original MPGs and tried again. Same problem. Now the -original- version gives me this error. HEEEELP!!!! And again, I get nowhere trying to save the project to a new file name.

                           

                          Ideas? This is getting worrisome.

                           

                          ---JC

                          • 10. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            When I am swapping out my Assets, I never use my original PrProj file. Maybe I am paranoid, but I also do Save_As_a_Copy, when I have done a major edit, plus keep the AutoSave on too. Should anything go wonky, I want a good backup of my Project files, so I can always go back. Maybe that is why I've never had to Import one Project into another, in hopes of "saving" my editing - lot's of previous versions, incremented and (hopefully) safe. After a busy day, I'll also copy these over to an external, just for safe keeping. I'm surprised that I don't wear braces and a belt!

                             

                             

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              JC,

                               

                              I assume that you did a Save_As, as I suggested, so you have the "original" Project, untouched. Yes, you will possibly have lost your later editing (based on your next post), but at least you can start over to just before this phase.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                Ideas? This is getting worrisome.

                                 

                                Take a deep breath. At this point, I would stop editing for a moment. Navigate to another drive, and create a new folder structure for your PrProj files. I'd look at doing some sub-folders, with names like [Project Name]_AutoSaves, [Project Name]_Saved, etc.. Copy over your PrProj files, your incremented PrProj files and also your current AutoSave files for safe keeping. You never know how far back you'll need to go, so you want a copy of each of these, so no overwriting can occur.

                                 

                                Now, a quick note about AutoSave files, provided that you have it turned on. If you did not change things in Preferences, you will have five .PrProj files in the AutoSave folder, within the Project folder structures. These will be incremented 001 - 005. What happens is that as you edit, PrPro will pause and write your PrProj file to this sub-folder. This takes place as soon as you do your first Save of that session, and is done however often you have it set to do so (5 mins. by default). This only happens if you are editing, so it doesn't just save the PrProj every 5 mins., if no changes wre made. However, if you make one change and wait 4 mins., it will save. Once PrPro has created all five (or however many you have set), it starts over with 001 and overwrites it. It's a FIFO situation. PrPro then moves to 002 and overwrites it. What this means is that it would very likely that 003 is actually newer than 005. The way to tell is to go to Detail View in Windows Explorer and look at Date/Time. This will tell you the newest file. Don't just assume that 005 is newer than 004, for instance.

                                 

                                Now, the trick will be trying to determine at what point in the editing (and Save/Save_As/AutoSave), things got wonky (a very technical editor's term). You want to go to the file, just before that point. When you find that, I'd copy that PrProj file over to the rest of those files that you copied to a safe place, and put it into a folder named [Project Name]_Last_Known_Good, or similar. Now you can try things like creating a New Project, and Importing one of your later Projects into it. This will often clear up issues with the XML. If it does, you can then try to see what went wrong, and may be able to save all of your editing. If not, then you can always go to your Last_Known_Good PrProj file and redo the editing that came later.

                                 

                                With intricate Projects, it's a given that "stuff happens," and you want a paper trail to go back along.

                                 

                                It's probably from years of working with involved PS projects with looming deadlines and 24 hr/day editing sessions, where tired fingers can hit the wrong key, or mouse button, and everything can disappear in a heartbeat, but I have a backup scheme for all but the most simple Projects and stick to it. I hit Ctrl-s often, and do a Save_As (incrementing, and keeping on working) about 4x per day. Whenever there is a major edit, I'll also do a Save_As_a_Copy then. All the while, AutoSave is chugging along in the background. If I make a faux pas, or the PrProj file goes pear-shaped, I can go back to a point before and loose as little as possible. It's usually quicker to redo something, than to do it the first time, but I still hate to loose that time spent.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                                  Suntower Level 1

                                  Well... long story, short: I was able to recover. The scary part is that I don't know exactly -how- I recovered, ie. I don't know what I did that 'fixed' it. My -guess- is that there are some internal files that are not part of the project and not part of the source clips which may not get properly 'rebuilt'... there was much stuff going on at the bottom of the program status line... Conforming... Indexing... etc. My -guess- is that some of these didn't get properly done.

                                   

                                  Anyhoo... (and this will make Harm -very- pleased, I'm sure ) when I got back to the starting point I stumbled on the Replace Footage function. And guess what? This works -fine-. So the solution is to:

                                  a) Open AE and render the files into new processed versions

                                  b) Now open the project in Premiere and use Replace Footage for each file you processed.

                                   

                                  Current remaining challenge? Time.

                                  1. Preview and rendering in AE are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW for certain effects. I'm using a fairly new QuadCore CPU and the 'Cartoon' effect will preview at like 9fps. And a 5 minute clip takes 15 minutes to render.

                                   

                                  2. There is a Render Queue in AE which I suppose -should- allow me to automate this (ie. set up all MPGs to process) and then go away for a few hours while they all render, but I haven't yet figured out how to do it in a way that keeps each 'composition' separate.

                                   

                                  Thanks for the encouragement!

                                   

                                  ---JC

                                  • 14. Re: Noob Question 20: Applying FX To Source MPGs?
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Great news on the recovery!

                                     

                                    As for:

                                    there was much stuff going on at the bottom of the program status line... Conforming... Indexing... etc. My -guess- is that some of these didn't get properly done.

                                     

                                    Let that stuff finish. Some machines will let you edit while that work is being done, but it's a good time for a cup of coffee. Even with big honkin' files, it should not take that long. I'll often come downstairs and hit the laptop and the forum, until everything is done and ready to go.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt