12 Replies Latest reply on Aug 2, 2009 6:31 PM by paulgoelz

    Breaking a 1080i project into sections

    paulgoelz Level 1

      Hi all, it's been a while.  Since I switched to Vista 64 bit, the vast majority of my PE7 issues have receded into the background.  However, I came across a couple items I need advice on.  I'm putting together a wedding video from 1920 X 1080i material from my Canon HF100 camera.  The plan is to output the finished project as both a conventional DVD and a Blu-ray disk.

       

      1.  For PC resource conservation reasons, I have created a slide show and a video sequence as two separate projects and will then combine them into one DVD / Blu-ray output.  However, I'll be danged if I can find an export / share setting that preserves the original quality and resolution of my 1920 X 1080 input footage.  Exporting to DV AVI for example does not allow setting the output to 1920 X 1080 and any of the "share" options seem to be much more compressed.  The only option I could find that was even close was "uncompressed" and a test export of a short clip showed that the actual export of the two projects would probably fill my 1TB drive and then some.  Sorry..... I know this has been covered before but I can't find it.

       

      2.  If you apply a DVD menu template to the project, how the heck do you remove it if you change your mind?  I had to use UNDO.

       

      3.  A simple one that eludes me.... how do I set keyframes so I can dynamically change the audio level within a given clip?  I thought it was a right click on the timeline or the cursor but that doesn't work.  I resorted to adding a fade in/out and moving the resulting fade points but there has to be an easier way.

       

      FWIW, this project intentionally stressed my copy of PE7 and my C2Duo 3GHz PC with 4GB RAM.  For example, the slide show consists of about 500 photos at ORIGINAL (ie., NOT re-sized) resolution (a mix of 8MP and 10MP).  I had absolutely zero problems creating the project, editing it to add some titles and rendering it to a 1920 X 1080 MPEG.  During render, the RAM usage was solid at about 1.8GB.  The video project consists of about 35 minutes of full HD video.  RAM usage never went above 1.85GB and it rendered successfully several times (as I searched for the right output type).  Surprised the heck outa me.

       

      Oh, and I see the forum is still as slow as ever.  Another reason I was unable to find the answers using SEARCH..... each page refresh took FOREVER   Seems to be a PC speed issue.... this machine is a P4 2.6GHz.  My main (ie., home) machine is a C2Duo and the page refresh time is much better.

       

      Paul

        • 1. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
          paulgoelz Level 1

          UPDATE..... I saw HDV (M2T) mentioned in the FAQ and I remember seeing it in the "share" options (I think).  I didn't use it because I didn't want to do a needless round trip to/from a format that was as compressed as MPEG.  Is this really the best intermediate format for rendering a project in sections?

           

          Paul

          • 2. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            If you're using an HDV workflow, yes.

            • 3. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
              paulgoelz Level 1

              I'm not sure if I am "using an HDV workflow" or not.  My assets are 1920 X 1080 h.264 camera originals from my HF100 camera.  I want the project to remain at the full HD 1920 X 1080 until the final step where I render it to either 4:3 DVD or 16:9 Blu-ray.  I realize of course that when it gets rendered to 4:3 DVD the output resolution will be lowered and it will be letterboxed, but as a Blu-ray I want the full resolution and the best quality so any intermediate format needs to retain as much as possible.

               

              Does that fit the definition of an HDV workflow?  Can the HDV intermediate achieve 1920 X 1080?  I think I tried it last night and the video was compressed horizontally...... is HDV actually 1440 X 1080 (4:3)?  Or do I need to play with the pixel aspect ratio?

               

              Or is there a suitable preset already and I am simply not recognizing it?

               

              Paul

              • 4. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                For the SD output, Dan Isaacs has formulated a workflow to attain the highest quality from HD material. This ARTICLE might be of inerest. It's long, but Dan put a lot of effort into it, along with some other Premiere experts.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                  paulgoelz Level 1

                  Thanks, I'll have a look when I get home.  On this PC (P4 2.6GHz), the linked page took a couple minutes to load and simply moving the mouse within the page without clicking anything caused the PC to become unresponsive with CPU usage pegged at 100% for about a minute after mouse movement ceased.  Merely scrolling any page on the Adobe forums takes my CPU to 100% for several seconds.  Makes reading a lengthy thread pretty annoying.

                   

                  I'll also do some more experimentation over the weekend.  Note that I am less concerned about SD quality from the HD original than I am HD quality from the HD original.

                   

                  EDIT:  The CPU utilization issue seems to be an IE thing.  I installed FireFox and the Adobe forum pages behave normally..... moving the mouse and scrolling result in maybe a brief spurt of 20% CPU and then back to zero.  This is the first time I have EVER seen IE do anything that would cause me to use another browser.  I wonder if it has anything to do with the McAfee antivirus installed on this machine (and not under my control).

                   

                  Paul

                  • 6. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                    paulgoelz Level 1

                    OK, report from the trenches #1

                     

                    The best choice I could find for an intermediate file format was MPEG2, 1920 X 1080.  I rendered my slide show and all seemed fine.  It played back in media player and looked pretty good even though it was compressed.  I then added it to the timeline an discovered that random frames were solid red.  Don'tcha love it.  Never figured that one out.

                     

                    So I decided to go for broke and create the slide show in the same project as the main video and see what happened.  To my surprise, it worked just fine.  We're talking about 35 minutes of 1920 X 1080 h.264 assets in five or six clips PLUS about 500 stills of 8MP and 10MP each.  The stills were brought into PE7 without re-sizing them (I like to live dangerously).  Total running time of the project is about 1:25.  WOW, I've never gotten this far before.  But this is (I think) the first time I have tried it on my Vista 64 bit desktop with 4GB and a C2Duo 3GHz.  Previously I was using my laptop.

                     

                    I'm rendering it now to a standard DVD.  Wish me luck.  If that works, I'll try for a Blu-ray.


                    Paul

                    • 7. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                      paulgoelz Level 1

                      Report from the trenches #2

                       

                      Success.... mostly.  Surprised the heck outa me considering how much I have fought this program since the first time I used it   Long live 64 bit Vista is all I can say.  But I can report that my project as described in the thread above rendered flawlessly and then burned to a folder without incident. We're talking 35 minutes of h.264 from my HF100 plus 500 or so 8MP to 10MP photos in a slide show.  I think I broke every rule.....

                       

                      But I do have a question.  I tried burning the VIDEO_TS folder to a DVD-RW using Vista's built in burn routine and the DVD player did not recognize it.  I suspect this is because Vista burned it in a non-DVD format.  So I tried it using Image Burn and now the DVD player recognizes it and plays the main menu and accompanying audio.  But any attempt to click a menu item results in a disc error.  Since Media Player plays the DVD just fine, I suspect this is a compatibility issue between the disc and the DVD player but I'm not sure.

                       

                      Does anyone know if using Image Burn to burn a VIDEO_TS flder to a DVD-RW will produce a compatible DVD?

                       

                      Paul

                      • 8. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                        the_wine_snob Level 9
                        Does anyone know if using Image Burn to burn a VIDEO_TS flder to a DVD-RW will produce a compatible DVD?

                         

                        I use Sony DVD RW's and ImgBurn (and Adobe Encore) do a perfect job. What you describe is often something that surfaces with the choice of media, or with the burn speed. What brand of DVD RW did you use, and what burn speed did you choose?

                         

                        Those would be the first things that I would check. After that, then it could be an incompatibility with the particular set-top player. Remember, none is required to play ANY burned DVD-Videos, only replicated, commercial discs.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                         

                        PS if the DVD RW performs on the computer with a DVD software player program, then the authoring is not suspect. That would point even more squarely at the media and/or the burn speed.

                        • 9. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                          paulgoelz Level 1

                          Thanks, that is how I analyzed it too.  For a while I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I burned it with the NTSC widescreen preset so I burned another copy using the NTSC 4:3 preset, which played OK.  But then the same DVD player played the original NTSC widescreen version this morning.  I'm not sure what the difference is between the 4:3 preset and the widescreen preset and the help system wasn't..... helpful.  The settings I can see appear to be identical between the two presets.  

                           

                          But after that little hurdle I started realizing that the video just didn't look as good as I think it can.  The video looked soft and there were very noticeable compression artifacts and occasional scan line issues.  I got to wondering whether my project settings were correct.... it was the only thing I could think of since the render process reported a bitrate in the 6Mb/S range which should be sufficient for SD video.  Interestingly, the photos in the slide show looked terrific.

                           

                          I had used the HDV 1920 X 1080i project setting and my video assets were AVCHD from my Canon HF100.  So I did a short test project with the AVCHD full HD 1920 X 1080i setting and the output looked quite a bit better.  No more compression artifacts but it still looked soft.  I re-made the actual project and am rendering it now.  We'll see how good it looks when burned to a DVD.  If it still looks soft, I'm not sure what else to do.

                           

                          Paul

                          • 10. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            This is one ARTICLE on HD to SD workflow. There is another, but with the redo of the redo of the fora, I cannot find the other one yet. Maybe this will be of help.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                              paulgoelz Level 1

                              I read that article, thanks.  Unfortunately, it refers to CS4 and to settings that I do not think I have control over in PE7.  Until it comes time to render to DVD, I think my workflow is the same.... I create a project with appropriate settings fo rmy video assets and edit to suit.  When it is time to render to DVD, I don't have any control over the process that I can see.

                               

                              Well, the render finished and the results are..... truly awful.  The compression artifacts are reduced but there are noticeable scan line artifacts (not really deinterlacing) and the whole thing looks terribly soft.  Like it was upsampled 320X240 or something.

                               

                              I'm at a loss.  DVDs rendered from other HF100 footage and from my Canon S5 still camera (640X480 video) look WAY better.

                               

                              I know there was a recent thread on this.  I'll go find it and see what the conclusion was.  This should be EASY.  As soon as you tell the program you are rendering to a DVD, it should set everything correctly for you.

                               

                              Thanks for the help so far....

                              Paul

                              • 12. Re: Breaking a 1080i project into sections
                                paulgoelz Level 1

                                OK, I think my only remaining issue is that of PQ and there is another suitable thread open.  I'll go join that one and see if we can come to a solution.

                                 

                                Thanks for the help here.  If I can get comfortable with the PQ of HD assets burned to a DVD, I'll be a happy camper.

                                 

                                Paul