25 Replies Latest reply: Oct 9, 2009 3:20 AM by Jimbojet RSS

    Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.

    nados Community Member

      Hi all,

       

      I created a menu in PS CS4 with text (some with drop shadows) that i assigned as buttons in Encore CS4. When i converted the text into buttons, I discovered that the ones with drop shadows caused the subpicture highlight to shift position up and to the right of the button.

       

      Can someone verify this?

        • 1. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
          Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

          DVD-Video subpicture layers are 2 bit with an indexed color table. What this means is that the individual subpicture can have only one color and one opacity value: no drop shadows, glows, opacity fades, etc. Well, you can try to add them as you did, but when they get converted to 2 bit, the color will basically latch onto available pixels and show a solid (likely ragged) shape, rather than a drop shadow.

          • 2. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
            nados Community Member

            DVD-Lab Pro doesn't seem to have that problem. I can create buttons with drop shadows and the Highlights appear properly positioned over the text.

            • 3. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
              Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

              Is your layer a Photoshop text layer, with the drop shadow layer effect added to it? Or is it a rasterized layer?

              • 4. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                nados Community Member

                It's a Photoshop text layer, with the drop shadow layer effect added to it.

                • 5. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                  Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

                  I don't see this problem.

                   

                  Can you post a screenshot of your menu showing the problem? Use the Insert Image button in the post editor of this forum, and not the Attach button.

                  • 6. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                    nados Community Member

                    Now I can't replicate the problem - go figure. I edited the menu in PS from Encore adding a drop shadow then saving. The revised menu with the drop shadow updated in Encore. When I checked the "Create Text Subpicture" button, the subpicture highlight appeared in the proper position.

                     

                    The only difference with what happened initially, was that I created the menu in PS with drop shadows and imported it into Encore as text, not buttons. I did not rename the text in PS using the Encore naming syntax prior to importing into Encore.

                     

                    I'll figure out how to recreate the problem after i finish this project.

                    • 7. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                      Joe Bowden Adobe Employee

                      Mysterious...

                       

                      If you get a chance, please post the results of your investigation.

                       

                      edit: removed redundancy.

                       

                      Message was edited by: jbowden

                      • 8. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                        I do hope that the OP does post back with more info. I have never encountered anything like this myself, and I do a ton of Effects/Styles on my Menu "art."

                         

                        I'd be glad to run a test, if there is an example of this happening.

                         

                        Good luck, to the OP and hope the issue is solved,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                          nados Community Member

                          I hope to re-create the problem next week. I'm currently at the end of a job that will end Friday.

                           

                          Thanks for your interest.

                          • 10. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                            Jimbojet Community Member

                            I have a similar problem. I don't have any shadow but I do have some blending options in my PS menu. When I preview the dvd-menu the highlights of the left buttons are shifted to the left and the highlights of the right ones are shifted to the right. However, when I edit the menu in PS I can see that the highlight-layers are in place.

                            Maybe anyone else recognizes this problem. Thanks in advance!

                            • 11. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                              Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                              CS4?

                               

                              NTSC standard or ?

                               

                              In PS, what is the image size and par of your menu?

                              • 12. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                Jimbojet Community Member

                                I'm using CS4 in PAL format. The image size is 1635*920.

                                The strange thing is the menu has worked one time, but suddenly the highlights began to shift.

                                • 13. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                  Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                  In a recent thread, the cause of truncation/cropping of highlights was that the menu size/par was slightly off the requirement.

                                   

                                  Look here:

                                   

                                  http://help.adobe.com/en_US/EncoreDVD/4.0/WS2C3F3ABD-6457-4ca0-898F-720B7E3D0C10.html

                                   

                                  You did not say what your par is, or the type of PAL, but your menu size does not match any of the options.  I'd try making the menu fit the project size and see if the problem remains.  I do not know whether it will fix it or not.

                                  • 14. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                    Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                    You might want to look over this CHART on allowable BD Frame Sizes in Encore. I do not see a match for your dimensions.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                      Jimbojet Community Member

                                      I'm not that familiar with terms as PAR, but I believe I did it this way: since my menu should be 16:9 I created a menu in that aspect ratio (1635:920 is almost the same relation. My pixels are square in Photoshop (as far as I know).

                                       

                                      I just changed the size to 1024*576, which means the aspect ratio was alright. But now things have become really weird... The highlights are still shifted, but when I export the dvd everything is in the right place. I hope this also will be on dvd-players, on software-players it seems fine.

                                      • 16. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                        Stan Jones CommunityMVP

                                        The practical issue re pixel aspect ratio is that, in PS, you can set it, so that 1024X576 square pixels (par 1.0) is not the same as 1024X576 PAL widescreen (par 1.42 - the one you want).  I suspect you are right, that yours is okay, and the reisizing fixed any issue that might have come from the pixel size being odd.  But check it in PS (I only have CS3, but I suspect CS4 is the same): Image -> PIxel Aspect Ratio.

                                         

                                        Yes, check in on at least a couple hardware players hooked to LCD and CRT TVs.

                                        • 17. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                          Jimbojet Community Member

                                          Ok I have checked it on a CRT and LCD and both seem fine. I still have some questions though.

                                          One of the buttons somehow has a grey highlight instead of orange, but this button doesn't differ compared to the others. It is a layer from a psd file.

                                          Another problem (which is more a Premiere problem I think) is that the video isn't very smooth when there's much movement. This is not the case with the original files (I converted VRO, some kind of MPEG, to mpeg2).

                                          One last small question: my menu consists of 6 buttons, but when the first left button is selected I can't move to the right buttons, I have to scroll down, and go right when the third (lowest) button is selected. Is there a way to specify the way the menu should react on the remote's arrows?

                                          Thanks in advance!

                                          • 18. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                            Bill Hunt CommunityMVP
                                            Ok I have checked it on a CRT and LCD and both seem fine.

                                             

                                            Good news.

                                             

                                            One of the buttons somehow has a grey highlight instead of orange, but this button doesn't differ compared to the others. It is a layer from a psd file.

                                             

                                            Can you open up all of the Button Layer Sets, and post a screen-cap. Please point out the faulting Button. Hint: use the little "camera" icon to attach that screen-cap.

                                             

                                            Another problem (which is more a Premiere problem I think) is that the video isn't very smooth when there's much movement. This is not the case with the original files (I converted VRO, some kind of MPEG, to mpeg2).

                                            This sounds like an issue with your Encore source footage. Please give us all of the details of your workflow, from the time that you shot this video. It's possibly something like a second MPEG compression, which will affect quality and show things like what you describe.

                                             

                                            my menu consists of 6 buttons, but when the first left button is selected I can't move to the right buttons, I have to scroll down, and go right when the third (lowest) button is selected. Is there a way to specify the way the menu should react on the remote's arrows?

                                            This one should be easy. With your Menu in the Editing Panel, look at Properties and turn OFF Automatically Route Buttons. Look at the bottom of the viewer in the Menu Editing Panel, choose Show Button Routing. Change where each Button Routes to. Usually Automatically Routing Buttons works fine. However, when Button Layer Sets might have been moved around, or created, or duplicated, it can get confused.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                              Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                              Here's a look at Button Routing:

                                               

                                              Encore_Button_Routing.jpg

                                               

                                              Hope that this helps,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                Jimbojet Community Member

                                                Thanks for the extensive answer! I already solved the highlight problem, however I still don't know what the problem was. I just recreated the button in Photoshop and now it works fine.

                                                Button routing also works fine now, thanks!

                                                Now something about my files. I recorded the movie with my handycam which records in VRO format. I used SUPER to convert it to mpeg, using the following settings:

                                                videosettings.JPG

                                                Premiere could handle these files without a problem. When I view the converted files on my pc, they are a little 'shocky' but not as bad as on a tv screen. I really hope I don't have to reconvert everything again, because getting all that back in Premiere with the desired filters will cost me weeks again.

                                                • 21. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                  Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                                  It appears that .VRO's are probably MPEG-2's in a .VRO container, as comments that these can be directly changed to .VOB and used in some authoring apps, seems to indicate.

                                                   

                                                  Now, if they ARE MPEG-2, I would suggest using the conversion program of choice (I do not know Super) to convert to DV-AVI Type II w/ 48KHz 16-bit PCM/WAV Audio. These will edit in PrPro easily. Note: these files most likely have already undergone a compression to MPEG-2 already, so if you output to DVD-Video, you will recompress in the Transcode stage to MPEG-2 again.

                                                   

                                                  Does G-Spot give the full details on these .VRO files? I just have no experience with them.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                    Jimbojet Community Member

                                                    G-Spot seems to give the same information as you said: MPEG2 file, almost the same as VOB, AC3 audio.

                                                    I have converted it to DV AVI successfully, I can't remember why I didn't that in the first place. Is there a way to change all mpeg files in my Premiere project into the new avi files? When I use "Replace footage" the clips are replaced, but the video isn't working anymore. I seems to be played at 1% speed or something, I only see the first few frames playing at very low speed.

                                                    • 23. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                      Jimbojet Community Member

                                                      Another update. I used avidemux to save the VRO files to mpeg-TS. I replaced the files in Premiere with these and everything is almost as it should be.

                                                      When viewing in Premiere, the image is smooth. However, when I export this to DV AVI the image becomes a bit shocky again. Could it be a good idea to export everything to mpeg (since the original files are also some kind of mpeg) and to use those files in Encore? I don't know if that would result in quality loss or other problems.

                                                      • 24. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                        Bill Hunt CommunityMVP

                                                        Jim,

                                                         

                                                        I'm not sure why you are having troubles with your converted to DV-AVI files. I get handed MPEG-2 material in several delivery schemes, and just do the conversion with DigitalMedia Converter, before I Import into PrPro. I seldom have any issues with these. The only issue is that with a very few, PrPro does not see the proper Duration. I have found that with these, I just open them in PrElements (they always show correct Duration), and then just do an Export as DV-AVI Type II (same exact format/CODEC and settings as what I Imported), and these "processed" files work 100% in PrPro. I've never been able to find any difference between the DMC converted DV-AVI's, and those run through PrE, but there has to be something different.

                                                         

                                                        As for the quality, you have to remember that the source footage was first compressed to MPEG-2, and to get it onto DVD, you'll be recompressing it again. Now, for light editing, there are NLE programs that do "smart rendering," where the Exported MPEG-2 will NOT be re-compressed, except for the exact areas that were changed. PrPro does not have smart rendering.

                                                         

                                                        Exporting to DV-AVI Type II, and Importing those into Encore, will give you quality as good as it will get. You CAN Export as MPEG-2 (DVD-compliant) from PrPro and can adjust your bit-rate (controls quality), but you are likely to not do better than Encore will on Automatic.

                                                         

                                                        Working from perviously compressed material will never yield results as good as going back to the original camera footage. Those compressions/re-compressions destroy quality.

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                         

                                                        PS - globally replacing Assets in PrPro is not really possible. Unless CS4.2 (coming soon) has a new feature in the Project Panel, I only know of one way - Offline Media, the Link Media. As there are no Actions, or Scripting in PrPro, like in Photoshop, it's a manual, and often tedious process.

                                                        • 25. Re: Subpicture Highlight shifts position on button when a shadow is applied in PS.
                                                          Jimbojet Community Member

                                                          Thanks for your answer.

                                                          The reason why I thought exporting as mpeg for Encore is that mpeg works differently then avi. This is my train of thought:

                                                          - I shot the clips in VRO, a mpeg format.

                                                          - Since the shocky image occurs when converting mpeg to avi, I think it is better to stay with mpeg.

                                                          - Premiere couldn't read VRO properly because of extra coding information.

                                                          - So I re-wrote the mpeg without those 'clipping information' (I can't remember the exact word). It is not a true conversion.

                                                          - Premiere can handle these files. However, after exporting to avi for Encore the same problem occurs: shocky images.

                                                          - Let's stay to mpeg again, because the final files will be VOB, which is also mpeg.

                                                          - Conclusion: import the final movie in Encore as a mpeg file, and if I'm right the image will stay smooth because it never changed of the way it is coded.

                                                           

                                                          Does this sound right to you?

                                                          One more question, you are talking about adjusting the bitrate when exporting from premiere to mpeg. Which settings should I use?

                                                           

                                                          Thanks for all the help so far! Thanks to you guys I can finish my project in high quality