9 Replies Latest reply on Aug 6, 2009 5:23 PM by Skullmaker

    CS4 "corrupt" file?


      I have a file that was created about a month ago. I printed it (Epson 2400) and everything was perfect. Last week, I re-opened the file and printed it and the print was horrible; it looked faded. Everything looked fine on the screen. Nothing has changed. Opened and printed other files that were created at the same time and they're fine.


      I ended up creating a new Illustrator file, copying the layers from the original file into the new file (via copy and paste) and to my surprise, the print was right on. This leads me to believe that something happened to the original file but I don't get an error message or any indication of a problem other than the print. Both files are CMYK with the same profile.


      If anyone could shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.


      Thanks in advance,


        • 1. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
          Skullmaker Level 3

          Hello Ilene,


          I think is another CS4 bug!: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/464058?tstart=210


          But Illustrator team does not provide updates (at least for almost 3 years). The Illustrator team does not care, but Adobe will be happy to sell you CS5 with new bugs that they wont fix.

          • 2. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

            Aside from Skullmaker's never-ending acerbic comments, did you check the print driver settings? I could imagine that a specific paper type definition or a color adjustment inside the print driver was changed and that settings somehow got incorrectly stored in the old AI file. If you still have the original for comparison, that might be worth checking out.



            • 3. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
              Skullmaker Level 3

              I can stop making comments when Adobe shows interest in us (the consumers).


              Where is the update for all the bugs of CS4? (The last update was released almost 3 years ago)


              Where is the Ai team helping us in this forum?


              The half done CS3 version never was fixed, but Adobe started selling CS4 as an "update"


              Adobe can prove me wrong and provide the CS4 update to fix all those Critical Bugs. Or never provide an update and sell you CS5 as an update next year.


              Lets see what happen this April, and then you can tell me what happen with CS4 update.


              It is a BUG and no printer settings will fix Adobe failures

              • 4. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                Wade_Zimmerman Level 6

                I kind of think mylenium is correct easily could have gotten stuck or reset to plain paper.


                Perhaps an update corrupted the files color profile but not the applications settings.


                And of course we all know that Hans (skullmaker is the only real Illustrator bug)

                I think we can agree that a bug is an annoying and persistent pest.


                Don't you think so Hans?

                • 5. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                  Skullmaker Level 3

                  I am sorry Wade,


                  I am NOT IN LOVE with Adobe. I only call the facts that you chose to ignore.


                  Where is the update for CS4?


                  CS5 is coming on April (I think) and I do not think Adobe will care to release an update (but I will be very very very happy to be proven wrong)


                  Where is the Ai team helping people in this forum?


                  Facts, no comments. Just Facts!


                  And learn to read. This is what Ilene said:

                  "Nothing has changed. Opened and printed other files that were created at the same time and they're fine."

                  • 6. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                    Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                    Guys, don't get personal... We're all friends here. And just to set the picture for Hans: I've been known to be a thorn in Adobe's side and I've been kicked out of Betas for it and got "oh behave" warnings more than once, so I'm not at all just playing into their hands. I understand your frustrations, but I just don't think that holding on to that false vision of software ever reaching a "perfect" state with zero bugs is achieving anything. Adobe's in it for the money and that by all means must mean, that in order to expand their business, they need to evolve the software to make it attractive for potential buyers. This of course means that legacy issues never get fixed, but that's jsut the way it is. It's no different elsewhere - most comemrcial 3D-programs are based on 15-20 year old code bases and before Microsoft completeley rewrote Office 2007, all it's predecessors had been sharing code for god knows how long...



                    • 7. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                      Skullmaker Level 3

                      Hello Mylenium,


                      I am not asking for perfection, but rather ethic business practices.


                      If you look at Photoshop updates, you will see a lot updates (for CS2, CS3, CS4, etc.), but Illustrator have not provide a single update for almost 3 years. And Illustrator versions have very serious and critical bugs.


                      The programs will have imperfections all the time, so that is not my complaint.


                      My complaint is that Illustrator team doest not care to fix Critical bugs (like the CS4 memory bug, or problems handling photos, etc, etc.)


                      I think is wrong to give the runaround to someone looking for help with the false sense of fixing what we know it is a bug.


                      We should start by saying "It is a bug, but here are some steps you can take...."

                      So people looking for help will know right from the beginning the reality of the problem.


                      Plus we should ask why Photoshop team can accomplish a lot more than the Ai team?

                      Why Ai team is not fixing Critical bugs? (but they sell you the "new versions" as an updates) So why we should give our money to a company that does not care about us (the people buying its products)? Why pay for a lousy service?


                      We cannot lie to people pretending that CS4 is excellent when the version have several serious critical bugs. That is what upsets me, the lies.


                      If you guys tell the truth when someone is asking for help, then I have no reason to add my comments, but rather a solution without the comments.


                      And you right about fighting does not help anyone, but I will fight if I see a lie. Not for me, for the person looking for help.

                      • 8. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                        Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                        If you look at Photoshop updates, you will see a lot updates (for CS2, CS3, CS4, etc.), but Illustrator have not provide a single update for almost 3 years. And Illustrator versions have very serious and critical bugs.


                        Well, I'm not the greatest AI user, but I don't really see it this way. A lot of what you encounter as bugs, I couldn't care less about. That's just the curse of how what specific work we do, influences our perception of a tool. Example: If I had my sayso, we'd gotten rid of "useless junk" like the chart tools (that really only produce charts that make Mr. Tufte shudder) long ago - one portion of code less to maintain and one less potential point for bugs. Yet, others use them all the time and they even have some creative uses. In reverse, I'm craving for consistent CAD tools, as it would help me to prepare my 3D content when I do visualisations. But dilge - nothing really there and until this day AI can't do a proper fillet without help from scripts or plug-ins.


                        Similar comparisons can be made fo a million other tools and that's where things get extremely foggy - both from users and the developers. Simply put: Whenever a feature is added in response to feature requests, it takes away resources from other tasks and at some point you have so many loose ends, you can't untangle them all. So by all rights, the dev team may have the will, just not enough resources. On the other hand - if you developed a tool without responding to external input, it may represent the perfect realisation of a programmer's "vision" - for a while. As the user's skills and needs evolve, the tool would become less attractive and finally fall off the truck. That part, I'm sure even you would admit, is why, if AI followed such a rigid routine, you and I and otehrs would have stopped using it years ago. So all in all, still someone has to make the hard decisions of what "bad" old stuff gets fixed while new things are added.


                        The whole thing is certainly not easier when working in a big company that produces many, many programs. You see, isn't it great that you can import or export Photoshop files, Flash content and PDfs from Illustrator? But doesn't that also mean, that the AI team are dependent on the other teams responsible for those components? Does that not hinder going faster on their end? Imagine, if one of those things needs updating and it doesn't get greenlit simply because it isn't ready yet! Something as essential to Adobe products as support for the PSD format not working could delay the entire release of all otehr programs, not just Photoshop.


                        One more thing you should consider, is that actually most Adobe apps are very, very old. In fact, Illustrator was the program that laid the foundation for the company's development as a business along with some other things. Because of the age, it has aquired "bad habits" long before people like me even used it. In addition, along the way as features were added, this was often done by acquiring external code by ways of plug-ins or hiring a specific developer, and neither you nor I really know the licensing legalese that brings with it. While you can assume that the code has been rewritten to more modern standards a few times (after all, we no longer use Windows 3.1 or MacOS 7), the licensing stuff may prevent the code from being modified in certain ways. Effectively a feature may be "locked" into a given state and unless someone comes up with a way to completely replace it without losing functionality, it has to be used that way to comply with the legal agreements.


                        My complaint is that Illustrator team doest not care to fix Critical bugs (like the CS4 memory bug, or problems handling photos, etc, etc.)


                        Trust me, they certainly do care, but as per the above, there are limits as to what they may be able to do and what they are willing to do. You should also note, that how critical a bug is, is not determined by its visible sideeffects. Especially memory problems tend to be very specific and if they cannot be clearly reproduced, they tend to fall off the lists very quickly. In that case one would often simply assume a combination of system-specific issues with otehr software, hardware and perhaps insufficient configuration.


                        Plus we should ask why Photoshop team can accomplish a lot more than the Ai team?


                        Do you really think? I don't feel that way at all. Beyond the fact, that the Photoshop team is at least 5 times as large as the Illustrator team, but the program also has a 5 times as large user base (everyone uses PS in one way or the other) and thus may be 5 times as complex to maintain, I don't really see how they achieve "more". Photoshop suffers from the same problems as AI - it's based on an outdated concept of how image processing should be done and is full of legacy features, half-finished "new" features that have just been plugged on and serious frakk-ups. You know, I could start from A and go to Z and come up with an issue for every letter. The most remarkable ones that immediately spring to mind being the network printer issue that plagued CS3, which is unforgivable, to the OpenGL stuff introduced in CS4, that often doesn't work or imposes silly limitations like things becoming awfully slow with a given number of images open. It's great when it works, but I can understand anyone who would want to send gift-wrapped hand grenades to some of the developers when it doesn't. They do some things right like trying to get rid of modal dialogs and using panels instead, but they do just as much wrong with those same panels and many other features.


                        Regardless, in the end, there is only one truth here: On balance, PS just works for a majority of the clientel and for a vendor of commercial software that is the decisive factor. The same can be said for Illustrator and that pretty much covers all the options. We can discuss this for a month and not come to a solution that will satisfy all sides. You just have to learn to live with it. It's their loss if they don't listen and, on the other hand, we're off the hook when something goes wrong. Still, it doesn't stop me from filing bugs and making noise in some places and that is the one thing I would ask you to do as well: Retain your critical attitude toward these things, but try to to be a bit more constructive and not so quick to judge. You won't get anyone from Adobe to confirm or deny any of this officially, but they surely monitor these forums and take notes. If phrased properly, they will listen.




                        P.S.: For more on software development, also check my ponderings on my personal blog like this for instance.

                        • 9. Re: CS4 "corrupt" file?
                          Skullmaker Level 3

                          Hello Mylenium.


                          I read your blog and it is very good. I can see now where are some of the problems that should not exist.


                          Like you said, if the coders log their comments and tech notes to make the performance between 2 applications better, then you do not have to waste time acquiring the line of code (after all, you all work for the same company).


                          If you think of terms of money instead of programing, you can see that the company is loosing money and time. This wasted time and money can be invested in updates, new features, etc. which leads to happier loyal consumers.


                          I think the problems falls in PM's performance, that can negotiate a better communication between teams.


                          But the problem I see too is that Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen is happy with the performance of the company, regardless that the income dropped 41 percent to $126.1 million (or 24 cents per share) in the second quarter. He thinks that we are all happy with CS3 and CS4.


                          But here are some comments of users from other forums about Adobe products (which I do not agree with many of them):



                          "Adobe charges too much for most of its products, and it has escalated the price of academic versions to the stratosphere. I used to upgrade without question, but now I make do without the latest upgrade."


                          "Seriously - features no one asked for, glommed on top of a shockingly bad interface. Who'd want to buy that? Besides, Final Cut Pro is eating Premiere's lunch (or rather did a while back) and by letting Microsoft horn in on the technical publishing market by default, Adobe lost a great number of FrameMaker customers.

                          As for Acrobat, it's well-documented that Acrobat is a complete mess from top to bottom. Apple makes a far better PDF viewer than Adobe."


                          "CS4 didn't really impress anyone too much, aside from 3D designers there isn't much that CS3 can't cover at most. plus, Final Cut is killing premiere to the bones, most professional video is done in Mac and what better option than Final Cut...


                          Illustrator didn't bring too much to the plate other than a few good features.


                          Flash still hasn't changed much either, still same Macromedia options with upgraded JavaScript.
                          it's still not completely morphed into Adobe friendly integration."



                          This is what the general user think, and this is why Adobe is loosing customers (like you said, everything is about perception). So complaining about the problems in this forum can actually help the PM to wake up and see what's really happening.


                          But Adobe wants to improve performance by cutting costs and introducing new products. In December the company said it would trim about 600 jobs. That is why I think Illustrator wont released an update.


                          If we the consumers stop buying faulty software, Adobe will be force to hire more people, increased the communication between teams (to out performed any potential competition) and provide updates again.


                          But we have to talk and complaint for Shantanu to hear us and make him take action.


                          But if keep saying that Illustrator CS4 is great (pretending that does not have critical bugs), we just killing our self and no change in Adobe's attitude will take place.


                          P.S.  I like your opinion of "Screen Real Estate", some of the option should go to preferences or pull-down menus. Maybe that is why I have 2 monitors.