21 Replies Latest reply on Aug 11, 2009 5:52 AM by BigJohnD

    PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers

    SylviaSC

      Just bought a new Xerox Phaser PS printer and my PageMaker 6.5 documents with Greek text do not print the Greek correctly, also the same problem with Greek characters on PDFs.  The Adobe quick support explains WHY this is happening (only 1st 256 characters of font are supported and Arial Greek or other standard Greek fonts use later characters), but although they suggest a Cyrillic font (see kb2.adobe.com/cps/330/330291.html) to use instead, there is no Greek font suggestion I could convert my Arial Greek text to.  I can't get any other standard fonts I've tried to work in Greek keyboard mode on this printer.

       

      We first hit problems with this some years ago with post Windows 2000 / XPsoftware.  I need to prepare print ready PDFs from PageMaker on an old Windows 98 machine to get Greek text included, but I was OK for day to day in-house printing from PageMaker & could print the PDF with Greek once created on the old computer from the new.  My old OKI printer which had no problems printing Greek text from PageMaker, PDFs (or Word or other software) was fine but has become uneconomical to maintain (toners, drums, belt & fuser all need replacing & cost far more than a new better printer).

       

      Does anyone know of a Greek font that will work with PageMaker and convert to print ready PDFs on Acrobat Distiller?  or any other solution?

      I look forward to suggestions (& where to find the font if I don't have it).

       

      PS Just thought I'd add a test a bit of Greek text here - Καλή επιτυχία (Good luck in Arial Greek) - which works on screen. - not allowed to attach a Pagemaker file.

        • 1. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
          Level 4

          My best suggestion is to move up to InDesign which can read the extra Glyphs in the font. Pagemaker 6.5 is over 10 years old its not going to work with newer fonts or newer anything really. If you want to use Pagemaker you are stuck with its limited capabillities.

           

          Sorry not familiar with Greek fonts.

          • 2. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
            Jay Chevako Level 3

            It doesn't make sense that the font would work with the Okidata and not the xerox. It may not be the font. Check the phaser to see if it has Genuine Adobe Postscript. Xerox has been playing with something called Oak postscript emulation, that is a hunk of junk. Also make sure that you get the ppds for pagemaker.

             

            Indesign would be a much better option.

            Jay

            • 3. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
              SylviaSC Level 1

              Thanks for suggestion Buko, but apart from the cost (I can't even make enough to pay myself minimum wage from our independent publishing business) last time I asked, Adobe couldn't even confirm if InDesign would work with Greek fonts, nor if I'd be able to upload my existing documents which have Greek and English text in.

              Can anyone confirm above now a few years on?

              • 4. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                Jay Chevako Level 3

                Re Indesign, download the trial version and see what you think.

                 

                Jay

                • 5. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                  SylviaSC Level 1

                  Thanks Jay, I'll pass your comments to the Xerox support team who say the Adobe PageMaker is overwriting their PS driver.  I think (not sure) that my OKI C5200 is not a Post Script printer - hence no problems with Greek fonts.  I have downloaded a 'PCL' driver (whatever that means)  for the Xerox Phaser 8560 DN that allows Greek text to print, but gives me only rubbish print quality ('draft' or 'not draft' quality, colour or mono) from Page Maker - so is not satisfactory for newsletters and when I need photos in colour or greyscale.  For publishing I do need a PS driver, but presumably can survive a few more years going back to the old Windows 98 computer to produce these with an Agfa Avantra driver on 'print to File'.

                  I really hoped someone might have a Greek font suggestion that doesn't use characters after the first 256 as that seems to be the Adobe problem.

                  • 6. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                    SylviaSC Level 1

                    You're obviously on the ball Jay - got your reply in before I could reply to you as above.  I see my times are still quoted as US, although I've attempted to change & 'remember setting' to UK at least twice now!  I'm in UK (10.20pm now - so about to go to bed, will see if I can find the trial InDesign to load without mucking up my Page Maker tomorrow.

                    Good night

                    • 7. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                      Level 4

                      SylviaSC wrote:

                       

                      Adobe couldn't even confirm if InDesign would work with Greek fonts, nor if I'd be able to upload my existing documents which have Greek and English text in.

                      Can anyone confirm above now a few years on?

                      Do you really think Adobe is going to release a product to replace Pagemaker that can't even do what Pagemaker does? In fact it can do more than Pagemaker including reading the full font that Pagemaker can't.

                       

                      download the trial and see for your self. and for the record ID has been running circles around Pagemaker since version 2 thats about 8 years ago.

                      • 8. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                        BigJohnD Level 3

                        SylviaSC wrote:

                         

                        I really hoped someone might have a Greek font suggestion that doesn't use characters after the first 256 as that seems to be the Adobe problem.

                        It's a PageMaker shortcoming.

                         

                        Try here for Greek fonts:

                        http://www.ucl.ac.uk/GrandLatGreekFonts/frameFontsGroupOneSmall.html

                         

                         

                        Iechyd da! John
                        23:22 06/08/2009 BST

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                          SylviaSC Level 1

                          Thanks very much for this link.  I've downloaded a couple of the fonts & added text in these to my test document.  They seem to be alternatives to Symbol font, but do print from the PS printer AND make correct  PDFs which print correctly too, but I haven't found out how to get accents onthe Greek letters which are essential.  I will try to contact the authors unless anyone here has an idea - so problem not solved yet.

                           

                          With Arial Greek (& Times & Courier Greek) you use your keyboard & language control panel setting to create an alternative language then toggle (I use shift alt) to change to Greek keyboard eg  αβψδεφγηιξκλμνοπ;ρστθωςχυζ άέήίόύώ  ϊ ϋ  automatically appear for alphabet keys with ; plus letter for accented and : for two dots above.  Sometimes it just shows as Arial font as on this forum, sometimes you select Arial Greek - depends on the software.

                          Symbol is the only Greek font available here - but has no accents available.  abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz ;a :a  ar.  Symbol uses different keys for some of the odd letters too (as you can see from these alphabets), which will be a BIG nuisance for me if I not only have to change the font but also rekey Greek text (& retrain my fingers) on old documents before I can print them.

                           

                          Because Greek is a difficult language for English speakers including me, the accents are essential to know how to say the word and as publishers of Greek-o-File we have to print Greek correctly with accents.

                           

                          • 10. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                            Level 4

                            Since ID has so much more control of your files than Pagemaker could even dream of. I really suggest that you download the trial and see how much better it handles the Greek fonts. I am not familiar with Greek (Its all greek to me), I know bad joke, so it would be hard for me to say how it works with the fonts. I find it hard to believe that InDesign is used everywhere except Greece.

                            • 11. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                              SylviaSC Level 1

                              Hi Buko - good morning for you, 5.30pm for me in UK towards the end of a frustrating day thanks to Adobe - who still will not accept my change to UK which I must have entered 10 times now, trying logging out & even restarting my computer in between!!!!

                              You saw the Greek fonts test reply earlier - you're right it's not really a solution as the keys are different so I won't be able to reuse old docs.  Adobe support (in India I presume) were unable to give a simple reply as to whether I could bring my part Greek Page Maker docs into InDesign intact, just saying 'documents may be altered' but unable to say if the Greek text was one of the things that 'may be altered'.  They confirmed it supported Arial Greek in new documents so, after they also confirmed it was not a cut down version & I could print from it & import to the trial version, I downloaded it.  That took some time including installation.

                              For anyone else looking for answers on this subject I can now confirm that it supports Arial Greek & Times New Roman Greek fonts for printing on a PS printer (well, on my Xerox Phaser PS driver at least) and also handles the Greek text on creating PDFs which PageMaker did not do.  That's good for new documents.  My Arial Greek text also openned intact when I opened a Pagemaker document in InDesign & printed correctly & converted on PDFs, but the text formatted slightly differently however, so it was time for more in depth testing.  I have to reprint some old magazines from PageMaker files and need decent image quality so I have started with copies on one of these.  There is quite a lot of reformatting to do as the kerning (often used to squeeze text on a page or avoid half words on lines alone at end of paragraph) is not transferred so text did not all fit on the pages.

                              Other problems - Many of the menu options seem familiar/similar to PM6.5, but  I'm still struggling to find some things and to resolve others, eg

                              - Text on top of photographs has disappeared.  The text box is there but will not respond to bring to front, nor image sent to back, nor can I find any way to put new text on top of my pictures.  This was simple on PageMaker, You just created the text & position it to make sure it didn't overlap text wrapping boundaries ....

                              - which brings me to another point.  I still can't find where text wrapping is set. On Page Maker it was an option on right click when image was selected.

                              - Lots of features I had before seem hard to find - I guess they must be somewhere, eg Compose document to printer was part of doc. set up.

                              - Resize image in proportion had a simple icon in the image box that would pop up.  I can see the 100% boxes at the top, but image seems to crop not resize when I grab corners.  I must be missing something.

                               

                              I guess I've got to spend a lot more time learning this new tool to see if there is an easy way to bring my documents forward with minimal reformatting work - then find some customers to fund the upgrade cost. (Any grecophiles out there want to buy a book or 2 from Greek-o-File? see www.greekofile.co.uk) Anyone know who offers the best UK price?  Adobe quoted £178.25 to upgrade.

                               

                              The Pagemaker problem has not been solved ... but thanks to everyone for trying.  If there is a solution it would still be easier for me for printing old documents, even if I upgrade to create new books, newsletters, etc.

                              • 12. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                Level 4

                                Sylvia any questions you have please ask in the ID forum. ID is very similar to PM admitted that with the new version the learning curve is a little steeper than it would have been if you had switched sooner.

                                 

                                It sounds like the text over images is a text wrap issue. Select the text box where the text has disappeared go to Object > Text Frame Options and check the box ignore text wrap at bottom left.

                                • 13. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                  Level 4

                                  Also keep in mind the more text the more differences since the ID text engine is far superior to PM's.

                                  • 14. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                    BigJohnD Level 3

                                    Your choices are:

                                     

                                    a) Purchase T1 fonts with the full character set, or

                                     

                                    b) Use Unicode fonts with InDesign.

                                     


                                    The long term and least problematic option is b)  :-(

                                     

                                     

                                    Iechyd da! John
                                    23:19 07/08/2009 BST (i.e. UK time!)

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                      SylviaSC Level 1

                                      Thanks Buko re text overlay on photos - it worked, but still can't find where to set text wrap options and margins round illustrations.  (Used to be so easy on PM6.5 - must stop saying that!!)

                                      Yesterday the sun was shining in England (yes, it really was on a Saturday in August - it happens sometimes!), so I managed to pull myself away from my computer by setting it to do a cleanup & defrag which I hadn't done for ages, so I could go outside and do some gardening.  Therefore didn't get a chance to get back to you to thank you.  I'll spend some more time on InDesign tomorrow testing essential functionality & try the InDesign forum as suggested as I'm sure I'll have more queries.

                                      Seeing your personal icon & Big John's - he's obviously Welsh, but are you Welsh American?  Tried to load a Greek flag waver icon for me, but it doesn't seemt o be there yet.  Still can't tell  this system I'm in UK not US - even though I found another place on profile to enter & save as GMT London.

                                      Have a nice Sunday.

                                      • 16. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                        SylviaSC Level 1

                                        Thanks Welsh John,

                                        Don't know what a T1 font is, nor if a font with 'full charatcer set' would work with pageMaker as I now know it only copes with the first 256 charatcers on PS driveres (but OK on non PS)

                                        As you'll gather from my other replies I have 'bitten the bullet' & got the InDesign t, so workinmg through probs. with that now - but it does print Greek text from PS drivers & export to PDF in Greek with standard Arial Greek, etc.

                                        It is sad that the answer means spending more money & time, when I was quite happy with what I had.

                                        There are many times when I hate technology and its need to keep changing and leaving parts of what I use behind.

                                        Have a nice day.

                                        • 17. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                          BigJohnD Level 3

                                          What I and the others have been describing is how it was done in the old days.  Users had to have to correct fonts installed - end of story.

                                           

                                          Unicode/opentype have taken away all the restrictions, but PM can't read any more than 256 glyphs in a font.

                                           

                                           

                                          What is OpenType font format, and how does it relate to Type 1 and TrueType?
                                          The OpenType™ format is a superset of the existing TrueType and Adobe® PostScript® Type 1 font formats. It provides improved cross-platform document portability, rich linguistic support, powerful typographic capabilities, and simplified font management requirements.
                                          OpenType, as jointly defined by Microsoft and Adobe Systems, is technically an extension of Microsoft's TrueType Open format, which can contain either PostScript font outlines (.otf) or TrueType font outlines (.ttf).

                                          OpenType .otf fonts are recognized and rendered on-screen by a PostScript rasterizer, such as Adobe Type Manager® (ATM®), which is either installed as an add-on system software component, or built into some operating systems, such as Microsoft® Windows® 2000, XP and Macintosh OS X. OpenType fonts peacefully co-exist with current font formats and can be used in the same document alongside Type 1 and TrueType fonts.

                                          So your options are stay in the old days (and it's becoming harder and harder to find the necessary accessories and incidentals - i.e. obsolescence) or move right up to date.

                                           

                                          But you'll soon like InDesign and end up wondering why you kept using PM for so long!!

                                           

                                          PS:  All you can do with this forum to make it "UK" is the time stamp on the message.  The country at the very top will remain as US.

                                           

                                          Iechyd da! John
                                          13:23 09/08/2009 BST

                                          • 18. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                            SylviaSC Level 1

                                            Looks like I have a busy week ahead, learning InDesign, finding the best price to buy the upgrade & importing & correcting some old documents i need to print.

                                            I have now set my time zone on the forum so BST showing on posts now - but as you say John, the 'United States (change)' option at the top does not hold any change except for the current session.

                                            Thanks everyone for trying to help.  I guess I have an answer and it is 'NOT POSSIBLE ON PAGEMAKER' but I'll leave this as unanswered in case someone does have a full solution

                                            • 19. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                              BigJohnD Level 3

                                              It can be done, but it's just not worth the hassle.

                                               

                                              Move to InDesign and it's no longer an issue.

                                               

                                              Iechyd da! John
                                              10:15 11/08/2009 BST

                                              • 20. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                                SylviaSC Level 1

                                                I'm busy trying to learn all the new bits & ensure I can do all I need to - including bringing old documents forward - but I guess I will shortly buy the upgrade.  It will be good for new books and newsletters.  Sadly change always involves unpaid investment in time & money.  We probably won't be publishing many more books as it is not an economically viable business (we have readers who like what we do - just not enough of them!) but still have lots of published books to sell so will be around for a while yet.

                                                The problem remains that I have a lot of time invested in old PageMaker documents that I still need to reprint occasionally & I'll need to check & reformat them before printing to get Greek text and pics at decent quality from the new Post Script printer.

                                                Thanks for all your help.You may see me on the InDesign help forum with a few questions still outstanding - but I'm gradually working through them and finding solutions.

                                                • 21. Re: PageMaker Greek text printing on PS Printers
                                                  BigJohnD Level 3

                                                  I can understand alright.

                                                   

                                                  We used to do publications in Chinese.  The documents arrived in Word, and were fine, but Western PM was useless and management wouldn't invest in a suitable version of PM.  So we ended up creating PDFs of the Word Doc and importing them into PM.

                                                   

                                                  Then InDesign came on the scene, and life became good!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Iechyd da! John
                                                  13:52 11/08/2009 BST