35 Replies Latest reply: Mar 7, 2010 2:34 PM by dec9 RSS

    Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7

    jt77474 Community Member

      pssettings.jpg

      So I'm using PS CS4 on Windows 7 Release Candidate (build 7100).

       

      I have profile my monitor using a cheap Spyder Express colorimeter. This produces an icc profile called spyder2express which is loaded up on startup. I know it loads correctly because it's configured to load after 10 secs delay, so I see the screen (24inch samsung 1920x1200) lose its blueish tinge.

       

      Now then. Before I messed around with my settings photoshop would display colors wrongly. Images that appeared normal in picasa, fastone, windows image etc would get messed up in photoshop, colors were way too vivid, like someone had boosted the saturation too much.

       

      So after a bit of fiddling the ONLY way I can get my colors to look right in PS was to configure the attached settings.

       

      Now when I open an image from my camera (srgb) I get the profile mismatch dialog, and the only option that seems to match my other windows photo software is to choose 'discard profile'. I konw this isn't right, so please help me figure out why my spyderexpress profile isn't working as it should is ps.

       

      Thank you, JT

        • 1. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
          John T Smith CommunityMVP

          You might also read/ask in Win7 Help http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/w7itpro/ since Win7 is, after all, still Beta software

          • 2. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
            Curt Y Community Member

            You are looking at the color you see in reverse logic.  Photoshop is a color managed program, the others you mentioned are not, and so therefore there will be differences.  Therefore, PS should show the correct colors if set correctly, the others will not.

            • 3. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
              dec9 Community Member

              Don't directly hook the camera to the PC. Take the card out of the camera and insert it into a card reader. I use a SanDisk USB 5 in 1. Then I use bridge to save and open. Works great with Windows 7 RC and Vista Ultimate. I have had nothing but issues hooking a camera directly to a computer.

              • 4. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                jt77474 Community Member

                Thank you for quick responses. Yes, I am confused.

                 

                My understanding is that by loading the spyder profile into windows all non color managed apps will be 'corrected'. They seem to match perfectly what I recall taking with my camera. Is this not the case?

                 

                I should add that I don't recall having these same problems with XP, when images in picasa would match those in photoshop. I therefore struggle to see that all my non ps image applications are wrong, but I admit I'm a bit confused.

                • 5. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                  jt77474 Community Member

                  Thank you, I always transfer via card reader. This color issue pertains to all my images, on hard drive, usb stick, etc

                  • 6. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                    D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                    Have everyone left? 3 hours and nobody pointed out the obvious:

                     

                    NEVER, EVER set your monitor profile as your working space. Don't go ANYWHERE NEAR photoshop with that profile.

                     

                    It just disguises (to you) the real problem, which is that you have set color management policies to "off". Make no mistake: you can't turn color management off in Photoshop. But this setting will mess it up completely.

                     

                    Use sRGB or Adobe RGB as your working space. Set policies to preserve embedded or convert when opening.

                     

                    Convert to sRGB in photoshop to make everything look the same in all applications. The other apps don't know what to do with an Adobe RGB (or Spyder2express!!!) profile, and show it as if it was sRGB.

                     

                    When you calibrate, just run the software and leave it. Photoshop will use the profile to display, but that profile is NOT a working space.

                    • 7. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                      Mylenium CommunityMVP

                      I agree with DFosse. Never ever use monitor profiles as the document color space/ blending profile. At best, assign them as proof profiles for viewing purposes only.

                       

                      Mylenium

                      • 8. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                        jt77474 Community Member

                        Thank you, that makes sense, and agrees with how I've had PS set up in the past.

                         

                        The problem for me is that when an srgb image (from my canon camera) looks different in ps even when ps is set to srgb. I gather picasa should show an srgb image 'as is'. So I can't understand why they're different.

                         

                        This isn't the caseon my XP laptop. So I'm wondering if it's a windows 7 thing.

                         

                        I will try to prepare a screenshot of the difference....

                        • 9. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                          Ronald Widha

                          jt77474, I have the same issue (Spyder3Pro, Windows 7, on Capture NX2 and Photoshop CS4), have you solved it by any chance?

                          I'm pretty sure this issue is with how windows 7 interact with the color managed applications when using custom ICC profile.

                          But not sure how to fix it.

                           

                          Ron

                          • 10. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                            D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                            Go into msconfig and check that the Spyder's LUT loader (whatever it's called) is set to load at startup.

                             

                            Also make sure that nothing else is interfering. Some video card utilities can do that and kick out the profile. Just disable them, the basic driver will still work. Then go into Windows color management (control panel) and make sure the Spyder3 profile is set as default for your monitor.

                             

                            Again, do not go anywhere near Photoshop with the Spyder profile.

                            • 11. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                              Ronald Widha Community Member

                              D Fosse, thx for the suggestion but it didn't fix the issue. Spyder LUT (Spyder3Utilities) is loaded on startup. Color calibration is set using Spyder profile.

                              NVidia control panel, set color managed by other programs.

                              At this point the monitor showing the right gamma and colors.

                              Profile on Capture NX/ or photoshop set on Adobe RGB.

                              Load up Capture NX /or photoshop. Load any image and they will be oversaturated.

                               

                              I have a slight suspicion it's because Windows 7 now supports system default and individual user color settings.

                              Tried all different combinations with no luck.

                               

                              Any ideas anyone else?

                              • 12. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                Ronald Widha Community Member

                                The only workaround that I can find is:

                                1. open the file. the image will look over saturated
                                2. assign to spyder profile. the image will be correct
                                3. convert to adobe rgb. the image will maintain its correct colors

                                 

                                This works for now..but not ideal.

                                • 13. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                  jt77474 Community Member

                                  Yes, it's thoroughly annoying. The only reason I started farting around with the wrong profiles is because I'd tried everything else. I knew from xp experience that images should look the same in different packages when things work OK. But in windows 7 that's just not the case.

                                   

                                  It's even worse if I'm using camera raw, which seems to use some adobe rgb profile, and then when you open in photoshop your edited image it looks completely different. Such a hassle, thanks microsoft

                                  • 14. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                    D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                    Ronald Widha wrote:


                                    assign to spyder profile. the image will be correct

                                    OK, knock yourself out... Just as long as you understand that it will not "be correct" when viewed on any other system!

                                     

                                    Do you guys have wide-gamut monitors? Maybe the Spyder can't handle that. I don't have w-g monitors myself, so I wouldn't know. I can't believe Microsoft would mess up a basic function like this.

                                    • 15. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                      Ronald Widha Community Member

                                      D Fosse wrote:

                                       

                                      Ronald Widha wrote:


                                      assign to spyder profile. the image will be correct

                                      OK, knock yourself out... Just as long as you understand that it will not "be correct" when viewed on any other system!

                                       

                                      D Fosse, why? Read the next step, I'm converting the image to Adobe sRGB. By then the file is 'standardized', isn't it?

                                      Do you guys have wide-gamut monitors? Maybe the Spyder can't handle that. I don't have w-g monitors myself, so I wouldn't know. I can't believe Microsoft would mess up a basic function like this.

                                      I'm using a laptop here, so definitely non wide-gamut.

                                      Hopefully it's not microsoft's. but the fact that I didn't have this issue with XP is quite annoying and seem pointing to Windows 7.

                                      • 16. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                        D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                        The only other way I could see this happening is if you at some point assigned the wrong profile to your images. This could happen if Photoshop's Color Settings were messed up beyound recognition, e.g. by attempting to "turn color management off" (which you really can't).

                                         

                                        In other non-color-managed applications, the images would still appear as if they were sRGB, so they might appear wrong in Photoshop (but actually right).

                                         

                                        In your case, I'd suspect the Spyder.

                                        • 17. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                          D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                          Ronald Widha wrote:

                                           

                                          I'm converting the image to Adobe sRGB. By then the file is 'standardized', isn't it?

                                          By then the damage is done.

                                          • 18. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                            Ronald Widha Community Member

                                            D Fosse wrote:

                                             

                                            The only other way I could see this happening is if you at some point assigned the wrong profile to your images. This could happen if Photoshop's Color Settings were messed up beyound recognition, e.g. by attempting to "turn color management off" (which you really can't).


                                            I'm confident that's not the case. Just took few fresh photos over the weekend with Adobe RGB set on the Nikon D300.

                                            Tried both on RAW and JPG and I still have the same issue.

                                             

                                            All images are opened and saved preserving their original color space (Adobe RGB).

                                            • 19. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                              Ronald Widha Community Member

                                              This is my Windows 7 Color management settings (I've turned back the setting to uncalibrated at the point where it was taken).

                                              Can you see if there's anything wrong with the settings here?

                                              win7-color.jpg

                                              • 20. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                Hmmm. I'm out of suggestions. As long as you don't butcher Ps Color Settings, calibration is one of those things that don't require user intervention (except setting the parameters).

                                                 

                                                Maybe there's something I haven't thought of, but my prime suspect is still the Spyder (and possibly its interaction with w-g monitors).

                                                • 21. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                  D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                  It does say "Use Windows display calibration", apparently a default since it's grayed out.  This must be new in 7.

                                                   

                                                  What does it say under default display profile?

                                                  • 22. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                    Ronald Widha Community Member

                                                    On the default setup, there's the same menu again.

                                                     

                                                    On Windows 7, there's a concept of a system wide color management setting

                                                    and user based (login based).

                                                     

                                                    There's also a new visual calibration (as you notice on the screenshot).

                                                     

                                                    WHen using spyder, I'm turning that option off, and still having the issue/

                                                    • 23. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                      D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                      But if you click the Devices tab, is the monitor and associated profile listed there?

                                                       

                                                      This looks a bit ominous, I think I'll pass on 7 until I get this figured out. Anybody out there who calibrate successfully on Win 7?

                                                      • 24. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                        jt77474 Community Member

                                                        OK so when my system loads up the colors are wrong until the spyder loader runs. I have this configured to run 10secs after startup, so I see the screen change from the nasty default blue tinged lcd to the calibrated spyder profile, along with a confirmation message.

                                                         

                                                        Now from what I understand, if I have the profile loaded in the system I shouldn't need this spyder profile loader, the profiles should be loaded automatically.

                                                         

                                                        But if I disable said loader then my screen will look horrible and blue, even though the windows7 color profile settings confirm that I've already added the icm profile created by the spyder software.

                                                         

                                                        So how do I get windows to load my profile into the graphics card without using the spyder utility to do that. This could be the cause of the spyder/windows problem.

                                                        • 25. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                          D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                          I don't think you can (although I'm not positive). I think the profile is tagged in some way; and also .icm profiles have "internal" and "external" names. You see the external; the system sees the internal.

                                                           

                                                          I'm out on a limb here; but bottom line is I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

                                                           

                                                          But quite aside from that: as long as you can see the profile kicking in (and not getting kicked out again) - you should be in business. If Photoshop still displays wrong colors that must mean there's something funny with the profile.

                                                           

                                                          I remember Chris Cox once saying something about how CS4 has a newer color conversion engine that reads properties off the profile that CS3 (and Lightroom) doesn't. Many older calibrators created profiles that didn't comply with the new specs, so there'd be problems. I don't recall the details, but the fix(?) was to untick "compensate for scene-referred profiles" in color settings.

                                                           

                                                          Don't quote me on any of this, except the third paragraph. That one you can quote me on.

                                                           

                                                          edited for clarity

                                                          • 26. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                            D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                            Try to download a trial of ColorEyes Display Pro. It will accept the Spyder puck; and the software is up to date (and very good, I might add). If that works out you'll know.

                                                             

                                                            http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html

                                                            • 27. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                              Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                                                              If turning off "compensate for scene-referred profiles" works, that means that your display profile has some bad information in it.  Some calibrators were incorrectly labeling profiles they produced as scene referred - but updates fixed that.  I don't know of any that are currently producing such bad profiles.

                                                              • 28. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                PeterK.. Community Member

                                                                jt77474 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                Yes, it's thoroughly annoying. The only reason I started farting around with the wrong profiles is because I'd tried everything else. I knew from xp experience that images should look the same in different packages when things work OK. But in windows 7 that's just not the case.

                                                                 

                                                                It's even worse if I'm using camera raw, which seems to use some adobe rgb profile, and then when you open in photoshop your edited image it looks completely different. Such a hassle, thanks microsoft

                                                                 

                                                                The reason it looks different is because you have your colour management for RGB files set to "off", which means that by default, Photoshop will display your image with whatever your working space is set to, in your case the "spyderexpress" monitor profile, which is the absolute WRONG thing to do. If you were always viewing your images under some particular monitor profile's characteristics, the next time you re-calibrate your monitor your images will appear different. The next time you buy a new computer or a new monitor, that monitor profile is no longer valid, and there will be no way for you to go back and achieve the same consistency. Simply attempting to apply your monitor profile to images in the future would be pointless, because the monitor profile is meant to correct for deficiencies in the specific characteristics of your monitor, not to describe how the colour of an image viewed on a completely different monitor is supposed to look (that goes for yours or anyone else's monitor!). This is why your RGB working space must be set to a known colour space that does not change, such as sRGB or AdobeRGB, and why you should never set your colour management "off," because you just set yourself up for disaster.

                                                                • 29. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                  D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                                  Nobody reads post #6, 10, 14,16 and 17...

                                                                  • 30. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                    jt77474 Community Member

                                                                    Thank you, some rash assumptions here, though my fault since the beginning of the thread is no longer valid. I have long since stopped using the monitor profile in photoshop, the ONLY REASON I TRIED THAT was because the normal options (ie the ones that worked for me in XP) no longer worked.

                                                                     

                                                                    I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                      Bill Lamp Community Member

                                                                      D Fosse,

                                                                       

                                                                      Win-7 v 7100 32 bit dual boot with XP Home.

                                                                       

                                                                      Spyder 2 Pro + v 2.3.5 software (the version for Vista) worked fine.

                                                                       

                                                                      Photoshop CS-4

                                                                       

                                                                      I haven't even opened the Win-color folder. Since it works, I didn't want to risk "fixing" it.

                                                                       

                                                                      What I did notice was (before monitor started acting up), right after I calibrated on XP, that the required corrections for brightness and contrast were different under 7 (I rebooted and did it again on 7). From this topic thread, it may be that 7 is making changes that are being picked up and the software is taking them into account on calibration with the proper profile being loaded AFTER 7 does its thing. That would put it back where it belongs which implies that the timing of what starts when is important.

                                                                       

                                                                      PS: New monitor is due in Tuesday.

                                                                       

                                                                      Bill

                                                                      • 32. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                        D Fosse-QDEaQ1 Community Member

                                                                        Bill,

                                                                         

                                                                        I don't think I will speculate any further on this since I don't have 7 myself. What I do see is that they're experiencing some calibration problems with Snow Leopard on the Mac side, so it seems new OS'es can introduce new problems.

                                                                         

                                                                        Let us know how it works out with your new monitor.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                          Ronald Widha Community Member

                                                                          Just to confirm. I've tried coloreyes and it didn't solve the issue. I'm still seeing the aforementioned issue

                                                                          • 34. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                            apo110

                                                                            Having identical issue. Using monitor profile from Eye-One. Windows 7 and CS4. The colours are over saturated straght out of the camera, the profile for that is Adobe RGB. I have the colour settings for the workspace as Adobe RGB as well.

                                                                             

                                                                            The only solution I have come to is the same as originally posted.

                                                                             

                                                                            Open in workspace

                                                                            Assign monitor profile - the colours are corrected

                                                                            Convert to Adobe RGB - so that I'm not binding the image to the monitor profile.

                                                                             

                                                                            It is a pain - especially as I have thousands of images this is effecting.

                                                                             

                                                                            Has anyone found an alternative solution for this?

                                                                            • 35. Re: Got myself in a color profile pickle - Windows 7
                                                                              dec9 Community Member

                                                                              Not that I have read about yet.