21 Replies Latest reply on Aug 8, 2009 8:45 PM by the_wine_snob

    Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)

    da223

      Hello,

      I'm editing a film I shot using Premiere Pro 7.0 and having problems with the PAR. At the time I first edited my project, I didn't know a thing about all that so I have 3 types of PARs : the video shot in 16:9 and the titles I used are 720X576 (1.4) ; the stills, which I imported from PS (with PAR correction turned on I remember) are 1024X576 (1.1) and one is (1.0).

      When I do "Export to DVD", the result is fine. But I wanted to save a file so I can burn DVDs directly from the file and avoid the encoding process each time I want to make a copy. So I tried "Export Movie" -> "Microsoft AVI". I exported the project using this preset "D1/DV PAL Widescreen 16:9 (1.422) 720h 576v" and while quality was good, it looked compressed like 16:9 in a 4:3 screen. I changed the PAR to square pixels or D1 DV Pal (1.067), and the ratio was all right but the quality mediocre, and when in fullscreen mode in Windows Media Player, it didnt' occupy the whole screen but instead had black stripes on all 4 sides.

      What settings should I use to have the same result as when using "Export to DVD"?

       

      I tried using Adobe Media Encoder. The quality was less good than "Export to DVD" or "Export Movie - microsoft AVI 16:9" so I dropped it

       

      PLEASE HELP

      THANKS!

        • 1. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          I have to admit that I do not know PrPro 7.0 (OEM version) PrPro 1.0, so some of this might not apply.

           

          If you burned directly from PrPro, then I would do the same again, and use that as my "master." One can use any number of programs, like ImgBurn to "copy the DVD" to another DVD-Video. Since your DVD did not show any problems with quality, aspect ratio, etc., all you will have to do is use another of these in the future.

           

          Now, if one wants a "backup," then I would Burn to Folder, with the original setting. This will create the VIDEO_TS folder with the same files and file structure as you physical DVD-Video. Again, you can use ImgBurn to burn from this folder to another disc.

           

          Hope that one of these methods helps,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            it looked compressed like 16:9 in a 4:3 screen.

             

            That is normal.  You have to tell the player to "unsquish" the footage during playback.

            • 3. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
              da223 Level 1

              the wine snob, thanks for your help, I'll try that. btw is it possible once i've done burn2folder to edit it in encore and to create menus for it?

               

              Jim, why then the same player would recognize the file as 16:9 when it's played from the dvd?

               

              I've finally managed to save it as an avi file, using the square pixel ratio and setting frame size to 1024x576. In WM Player, the result is fine. What I dont understand is I shot the footage in 16:9, and the project is set to 1.422, so why would I need to export it as 1024x576, square pixels?

              Anyway  after that I imported it into Encore, designed menus and so on and when it came to transcoding, under export settings, I have to choose between PAR Widescr.16:9 and Standard 4.3, the latter resulting in letterboxing, so I chose 16:9. Theres' an "output" tab that allows you to preview the transcoded version, and it all looks fine at that stage, apart from slight letterboxing but i can live with that. but when i actually transcode the thing, the final version is cropped on the sides. So what should I do? Would it be better to drop Encore and use something else?

               

              Thank you both for your help so far

              • 4. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                da223 Level 1

                one more question I have: when someone wants to edit a film destined to both the american and the european market (NTSC and PAL), what PAR and frame size settings should they use? Is it possible to change those settings afterwards or do you have to have two different projects?

                • 5. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                  I'll try that. btw is it possible once i've done burn2folder to edit it in encore and to create menus for it?

                   

                  Yes. What you will want to do is Export (I won't go into details here, as PrPro 7/1 might well be different enough that I will mess up) the file. I am fond of Exporting as elemental streams, i.e. one file for Video-only as DV-AVI Type II, and then either a PCM/WAV, or AC3 (my choice, as I so DD 5.1 SS for most Projects) as an Audio-only file.

                   

                  I Import the DV-AVI into Encore as a Timeline (might differ, depending on the version of En that you have). Then, Import the Audio-only file as an Asset. In Encore, I then drag the Audio file from the Project Panel to the appropriate Timeline. It will snap into place.

                   

                  Next, do your Menus, establish your links, any Playlists (or Chapter Playlists, if you have En 2.0, or later). Burn, or Burn to Folder and use a program, like ImgBurn to do the physical burning.

                   

                  Note: I edit my Sequences as Chapters, so I have one Timeline per "Chapter." Others put these together, so they need Chapter Markers. This is something that my workflow bypasses. Your might not.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    I've finally managed to save it as an avi file, using the square pixel ratio and setting frame size to 1024x576. In WM Player, the result is fine. What I dont understand is I shot the footage in 16:9, and the project is set to 1.422, so why would I need to export it as 1024x576, square pixels?

                     

                    Sorry, but you lost me here. I thought that we were talking about an NTSC SD Project with 16:9 & 4:3 footage. Not sure where these dimensions came from. Is it me, and I just missed it?

                     

                    Sorry to be so dense,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Personally, I would do two separate Projects, or at least Sequences (if your version of PrPro supports Sequences). Export to separate folders for separate Encore Projects, and do those totally separate - I'd advise against doing one Project in En and then swapping out the Assets.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                        da223 Level 1

                        So you're saying I'd have to edit it, then do exactly the same one more time? Wouldnt' that be kind of tedious?


                        ---

                         

                        It's a 16:9 PAL project (shot in 16:9 DV on a Sony FX1 camera) combining 720X576 (1.4) video footage and 1024X576 (1.0) stills (that was the only format that was interpreted correctly in Premiere after I imported them from Photoshop). I must say I'm a bit lost, I see fractions and stuff everywhere.

                        The thing was that when I used "export movie" using 16:9, the video looked squeezed in both VLC and WM player.

                         

                        As for exporting using the DV-Avi preset, I did try it but the quality was not so good so I chose Microsoft Avi instead, much bigger file (35GB for 17 minutes) but also much better quality.

                         

                        BTW: what's better for audio between PCM, mainconcept, dolby digtl, wav or ac3?

                        • 9. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          I'd replace the NTSC Assets with the PAL Assets. I'd also not try to mix the two, but would convert the "odd man out" to match the rest. Then, replace the Assets with the opposite versions.

                           

                          Also, most PAL players can easily handle NTSC, but NOT the other way around. Do you need a PAL Project?

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                            da223 Level 1

                            Yes since it's for diffusion in Europe mostly. I didn't quite understand the bit where you replace the assets with opposite versions..

                             

                            Thanks for your help, and enjoy your Chateauneuf!

                            • 11. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                              da223 Level 1

                              and now guess what : the program won't allow me to do "export to dvd". it crashes everytime, and worse yet, it apologizes saying "sorry, but there was a serious error that requires the damn thing to shut down" or something. I reinstalled it, but it's still the same. Is there a way to fix that?

                              • 12. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                With errors, such as this, you can track them down in this order:

                                 

                                1.) System - please give compete details

                                 

                                2.) Assets - again, complete details

                                 

                                3.) Project - see above

                                 

                                This ARTICLE will get you started.

                                 

                                For some troubleshooting tips, this ARTICLE will help you find some clues.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  Jim, why then the same player would recognize the file as 16:9 when it's played from the dvd?

                                   

                                  Because DVD players are smart enough to unsquish anamorphic footage automatically.  Computer software players are not.

                                   

                                  I've finally managed to save it as an avi file, using the square pixel ratio and setting frame size to 1024x576.

                                   

                                  That will work fine for computer playback, but not for DVD which requires the previously correct "squished" export.

                                   

                                  I'm telling you, man.  Your first process was correct.  DVD players will unsquish it automatically.  Software players have to be told to do so.  Windows Media Player and Quicktime both suck, especially for this kind of thing, so just don't use them - ever.  Find another software player that easily allows manual "unsquishing".  VLC, GOM and KM Plaer are three very good ones.

                                  • 14. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                    da223 Level 1

                                    Jim, I meant why does WM Player on my computer interpret the DVD correctly and not the avi file? Anyway I did as you said and Encore interpreted the compressed avi correctly so it's all fine, thanks.

                                     

                                    Hunt, thank you very much for your help.

                                     

                                    a few more questions: 1) in EncoreCS4, when I set chapter markers, they never appear at the actual place I'd like them to, always a little before or after (like a few tenths of a second). Why?

                                    2) my final transcoded DV file occupies 1.3 GB on the DVD I plan to burn. would it be possible to make it take more space for better quality?

                                     

                                    and the very last question to Hunt, you told me you use different sequences, as chapters, in Encore. But when you play the whole film is there a gap between each sequences? how do you put the sequences one after another?

                                     

                                     

                                    Thanks again, you've been very helpful.

                                    • 15. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      1. Because of the MPEG structure. Markers will only be placed at I-frames.

                                       

                                      2. Yes with higher encoding settings, but... if your encoding bitrates are too high the settop player may not be able to play the disk reliably.

                                      Let Encore handle it and forget about the empty space.

                                      • 16. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                        da223 Level 1

                                        [quote]1. Because of the MPEG structure. Markers will only be placed at I-frames[/quote]

                                         

                                        I guess it's not possible to change that is it?

                                        • 18. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                          da223 Level 1

                                          i have one more problem in Encore. When I try to build a dvd (avi file transcoding settings are VBR max:8.5, average:7, min:3.5), i get a message that says "PGC Thing has an error at 00:17:25..... the data rate is too high for DVD and so on"

                                          is that really too much for a dvd? when I exported it directly to dvd in Premiere, I remember successfully burning a dvd at CBR 9. Why am I getting that error message now and what should I do?

                                          • 19. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            Two possibilities:

                                             

                                            1. You know what encoding entails. Look here: http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php?PHPSESSID=6501b6b2b31f4c4a295bc8c2ba1e6f57#Calcu lator

                                            2. Let Encore handle it for you.

                                            1 person found this helpful
                                            • 20. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                              da223 Level 1

                                              thank you, that's very useful. I had to transcode my wav sound file to PCM and used CBR. Apparently the original sound file used too much data

                                              • 21. Re: Pixel aspect ratio problem (Premiere Pro 7)
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                There are four threads in the Encore forum, regarding PGC errors. Two are very, very long, but worth reading. The other two are shorter, but more current. Pay particular attention to comments from Jeff Bellune. He was very active in at least three of the four.

                                                 

                                                Two, the longer ones, are in the Encore>Error Messages Windows sub-forum. The other two, IIRC, were in the Encore>Encore sub-forum.

                                                 

                                                In a Reader's Digest form, the issue is with Assets most often, though not always. Unfortunately in the two longer ones, there are tons of "Hey, I have the same problem. What's the answer?" with zero details provided. Those can be ignored, as not one of those posters would furnish any details - "state secrets?"

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt