22 Replies Latest reply on Oct 20, 2009 4:05 PM by the_wine_snob

    Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1

    anonmous

      Hello,

        Prior to posting, I read numerous posts related to importing vob files in Premiere.  None of them seemed to address the particular problem I am experiencing, and I was hoping to find an answer here in the forums.  Here's what I am attempting to accomplish:

       

      1)  Export the vob files (there are 4 of them) from a commercial movie DVD to hard disk

      2)  Import the vob files into a Premiere Pro CS4 4.1 project

      3)  Build a sequence out of the 4 vob files

      4)  Replace the sound in two very short segments to eliminate profane language so that my children may watch the movie

      5)  Import the sequence into Encore CS4 and burn a standard DVD

       

      I was successful in all of the above steps 1-5.  So what's the problem?  I noticed, when viewing the output DVD, that at a certain point (only a single point) in the movie, the sound was garbled and the frames got 'wonky' (a technical term I picked up from Deke McClelland).  My first assumption, was that I had messed something up somewhere in my editing process.  When I navigated to the problematic time in my Premiere project, I saw that there was a problem in that at a certain point, the video would flicker, after which the audio would be out of sync with the video and would remain so until the end of the sequence.  If instead, I simply navigated within the sequence to a few seconds past where the problematic frames seemed to be, all would be well (audio and video in sync).  So, this means to me, that at the point where the problematic frames seem to be, Premiere has trouble interpreting them, and from that point on, the sequence is affected.  If the seemingly problematic frames are skipped, then Premiere does not enter its bad state.

       

      The next troubleshooting step was to start afresh, and see if the problem existed prior to making any edits to the sequence (i.e. steps 1-3 above).  The problem still existed.

       

      The next troubleshooting step was to see if a media player exhibited the same behavior as Premiere.  So I took the same vobs and viewed them with Windows Media Player 11.  There was no problem viewing the exact same vob in Media Player 11 that essentially is not viewable in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1.  Hmm.

       

      The next troubleshooting step was to see if an encoding program would exhibit the same behavior as Premiere.  I imported the same vobs into TmpEnc, and when viewing them, no problems were exhibited.

       

      Although not conclusive, it appears that there is a bug in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1.

       

      Another problem that I noticed with vobs, is that sometimes, Premiere Pro CS4 4.1 does not recognize the proper frame rate of a standard DVD vob file, e.g. given 5 vobs that comprise a single movie, the first vob is shown as simply a video file (i.e. no audio at all) @ 29.97 fps in the Project panel, but the subsequent 4 vobs are recognized correctly as having both audio and video @ 23.976 fps.  As before, I validated that the apparently problematic vob (from the Premiere Pro CS4 4.1 point of view) renders/plays perfectly fine in other applications (i.e. no audio or video problems).  I attempted to use 'Interpret Footage' to rectify the problem with the vob, and when I type in 23.976 fps, it takes it, but then displays in the Project panel as 23.98 fps.  It didn't fix the problem, but I was wondering if diplaying 23.976 as 23.98 (as opposed to 23.976 which is shown for the non-problematic vobs) is another problem.

       

      Thanks much for any and all help,

       

      Matt

       

       

      My system specs, if needed:

      OS -   Vista Ultimate SP2, x64, fully updated

      CPU - Xeon e5440 x 2

      RAM - 16 Gb

      Master Collection CS4 with all updates installed

        • 1. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          A vob file is simply a renamed MPEG file, with some DVD stuff added in... and MPEG files are really not designed to be edited

           

          http://tangentsoft.net/video/mpeg/edit.html

           

          You might be better off using a different program, one that is actually designed to edit MPEG/VOB files

          • 2. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            1)  Export the vob files (there are 4 of them) from a commercial movie DVD to hard disk

            2)  Import the vob files into a Premiere Pro CS4 4.1 project

             

            You're really not allowed to do that, nor is Premiere designed for such.  The answer in this case is to simply not even try it.

            • 3. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
              anonmous Level 1

              Hi, thanks for the answers thus far.  I guess I misused 'commercial'.  I don't mean encrypted, I mean an independently produced DVD that I purchased, wherein I was able to simply copy the vobs from it for editing.

               

              Matt

              • 4. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                Jim_Simon Level 8
                wherein I was able to simply copy the vobs from it for editing.

                 

                That is actually something of a contradictory idea.  VOBs are when you end up with after editing.  Best not to use them as source, even when you do have permission.

                • 5. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Depending on exactly how "DVD-compliant" the authroing in that DVD was, will likely govern your results.

                   

                  Here is an ARTICLE that goes into a bit of background on .VOB files. If the DVD-Video structure was created via a 100% DVD-compliant program, like Adobe Encore, you would likely have no issues, unless there was a gltich in the MPEG-2 at the point that you are referencing. BTW, how does the original DVD play at that point?

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                   

                  PS if there is an issue with the authoring, then you should be able to hook up your video camera (if it's miniDV tape, that would be great) and just transfer the DVD via a player hooked to the camera, to the tape. You might need more than one tape. Then, just use PrPro to Capture from that tape(s).

                  • 6. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Here is an ARTICLE that suggests another workflow. Note that it was written for Encore, but everything should still apply in PrPro. It was also written before PrPro was designed to edit VOB's, but if there is a problem, this older method might help you get what you need.

                     

                    So far, users are reporting 100% success with Encore produced .VOB's. As Encore is 100% DVD-compliant, that could be the issue here. Some other programs that do authoring (Roxio and Nero for two), play pretty fast and loose with the DVD-specs.

                     

                    Most problems, so far, have been with DVR's, and the like, that burn to DVD and include their own menuing system. Those have been anathema. Still, other authoring apps. could well be at fault here.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                      anonmous Level 1

                      Hello Hunt,

                         Thanks for your thoughtful answer.  Here's what I can say for certain:

                       

                      At the point where Premiere Pro CS4 4.1 encounters a problem:

                      1)  The original DVD plays fine

                      2)  Windows Media Player 11 plays the vob file fine

                      3)  TmpgEnc Xpress 4 plays the vob file fine

                       

                      So far, it's only Premiere that has the problem with the vob file.  Now, I do understand that DVD vobs are a delivery format, and not an editing format per se, however, when making the two simple edits that I wanted, I believe, based upon the Adobe documents I've read thus far that it should work.  I've already found a workaround for the project by simply converting the vobs to elementary mpg2 video and linear pcm audio streams, so getting it done is not my goal at this juncture.  I'm simpy wondering if I was mistaken in my reading of Premiere CS4 4.1's ability to use vob files as source material (again, I know it's not ideal, but I thought it was at least supported)?

                       

                      Matt

                       

                      P.S.  Thanks also for pointing me in the direction of one of your very informative posts regarding the alternate vob workflow.

                      • 8. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Matt,

                         

                        I've already found a workaround for the project by simply converting the vobs to elementary mpg2 video and linear pcm audio streams, so getting it done is not my goal at this juncture.  I'm simpy wondering if I was mistaken in my reading of Premiere CS4 4.1's ability to use vob files as source material (again, I know it's not ideal, but I thought it was at least supported)?

                         

                        First, glad that you have got the problem handled. That is the main goal, right?

                         

                        As to the "why?" without those .VOB's I can only guess. That guess would lie with the authoring program used to create the DVD structure. There could be all sorts of problems from the bit-rate at that point in the .VOB. Most of the real .VOB issues occur with the first, because it contains other data, besides the MPEG-2. Once one gets down the list of .VOB's, they are almost always just the remaining MPEG-2's, as all Menus, etc. will be in the first one. Trying to come up with what might be wrong with this later one, is tough, so I am taking the guess on the bit-rate exceeding a certain level. That you can play the DVD is not 100% indicative that something is off-spec there. For information, what is happening at that spot in the movie? Is there some fast subject, or camera movement? These are things that can cause a Transcoder to go over limits if not carefully monitored.

                         

                        Other than that guess, I'll wait to hear from some of the experts, like Jeff Bellune, who wrote the Ripping article for Encore.

                         

                        Wish I had an iron-clad answer.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          I know that you have played this DVD on the computer and DVD software plays it fine. Have you tested it in a set-top player, especially at that one point? As not set-top player is required to play any burned DVD (most do with few problems), they are more sensitive to any problems, than a DVD drive and a software player.

                           

                          Just curious if the disc plays fine on your set-top,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                            anonmous Level 1

                            Hi Hunt,

                               Great suggestion, I hadn't tried that yet.  I went ahead and tried it and it was the same result (i.e. the original source DVD exhibits no problems on the set top player).  Do you think I should submit a bug report to Adobe about this vob reading problem?  Is there any sort of analysis utility I can run on the vob to see if it's 100% compliant, even though it exhibits no problems in multiple other renderers and players?

                             

                            Also, do you have any thoughts on if what I'm seeing when I select 'Interpret Footage' set the 'Assume this frame rate:' to 23.976 and then it displays in the project as 23.98, although other properly interpreted sources show 23.976 (this ancillary question was in my original post, but I probably should have made a separate post about it)?

                             

                            Thanks again,

                             

                            Matt

                            • 11. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                              coolistic

                              I am having the same problem and it has been driving me nuts! I took a wedding video from 1990 on a VCR tape and turned it to digital via a Dazzle hardware unit that plugs into the computer. It gives me vob files with no menus or anything like that. When I import these vob files into Premiere Pro the files get really screwed up - the audio plays and is completely out of sync with video. Just like you, the original vob files are 29.976 and after importation into Premiere Pro they turn into 23.976. If I try to change the speed or convert to another frame rate, it remains screwed up and it is impossible to make the audio match the video. Also the video gets really interlaced looking when I change the frame rates. Basically, I just spent thousands of dollars on a very worthless program. I studied this for over a year on what editing program to buy and decided on this piece of JUNK! I am upset, angry and cannot believe that the FCC lets these people sell such software that does not even work. I will NEVER buy from Adobe again. Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.

                              • 12. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                In your research, did you uncover the "Interpret Footage" command?

                                 

                                -Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                  Welcome to the forum.

                                   

                                  Now, you have several problems, but most are with your choice of equipment and your workflow, not your choice of an NLE.

                                   

                                  I took a wedding video from 1990 on a VCR tape and turned it to digital via a Dazzle hardware unit that plugs into the computer. It gives me vob files with no menus or anything like that

                                   

                                  Few people have ever been able to get a Dazzle to work. This is true, even with the Pinnacle software, that often comes with it. It is an AVID product now, as they bought Pinnacle, and if you can get it to work at all, you are ahead of 99% of all owners. Stop by the Pinnacle fora and type in Dazzle. You will get the idea quickly.

                                   

                                  A far better workflow would be to use a VHS player, hooked to an A-D device, like the Canopus/Grass Valley 110, or their 300. Use the Edius software that comes with it, to Capture DV-AVI Type II files w/ 48KHz 16-bit Audio. There will be zero OOS issues.

                                   

                                  Most other equipment and workflows are kludges and seldom work at any level.

                                   

                                  A good workman does not blame his tools. He might blame his choice of tools, but not the tools. Unfortunately, you chose a piece of hardware that doesn't usually work with the included software, and are blaming a great NLE program, because you are trying to work with horribly bad footage.

                                   

                                  Please do yourself a favor. Donate the Dazzle to Goodwill, and look at the Canopus/Grass Valley 110. The price differential is not that great, and you will keep all of your hair.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                   

                                  PS just did 34 VHS tapes via the above suggestions (some LP and some EP), and got many hours of usable footage. Not one glitch. No OOS. Every file edited perfectly in PrPro and I delivered 15 DVD-5's, that the client loved. I paid for a Canopus 300 with just my time on one project.

                                   

                                  PPS, please see my post #5 for a link to an article on VOB files.

                                   

                                  Message was edited by: the_wine_snob Added PPS

                                  • 14. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                    mikerana Level 1

                                    Anonmus - I'm having an issue also with VOBs.

                                     

                                    While I realize that it's wrong to rip commercial DVD's to your computer and do things to them yourself.  I will start out by saying that I do rip movies, but not to copy them for others, but I have a computer that will eventually have a digital copy of all of my movies, that way I don't have to rummage through my DVD collection looking for a certain movie.

                                     

                                    Here's my question - I figured since my problem is related, I would just jump onto the end of anon's thread.

                                     

                                    I just ripped a movie into a single VOB - the resulting output is a 7.5GB VOB.  I know that VOBs are importable into APP CS4.  Is there a file size limit to what you can import into APP CS4?

                                     

                                    On that same movie, I ripped it into several 2GB VOBs (4 files to be exact).  I was able to import two of those VOBs into Premiere but the other two caused Premiere to hang.

                                     

                                    Can anyone shed light on why Premiere would hang.  Maybe it would also help if I told you that I'm running an Core i7 with 16GB DDR3 RAM.

                                    • 15. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                                      the resulting output is a 7.5GB VOB

                                       

                                      Unless you have concantated the structure, this is not possible. The DVD-spec limits the VOB's to ~1GB. If you did combine the files, you should have first extracted the MPEG-2 files and worked with them.

                                       

                                      PrPro is not designed to work with non-DVD-spec VOB's. That is the final comment on that, and should have been made clear upthread.

                                       

                                      Now, back upthread, I gave links to other workflows for ripping. Did you follow those? If so, you should not have ended up with a non-DVD-spec 7.5GB VOB.

                                       

                                      While I realize that it's wrong to rip commercial DVD's to your computer and do things to them yourself.  I will start out by saying that I do rip movies, but not to copy them for others, but I have a computer that will eventually have a digital copy of all of my movies, that way I don't have to rummage through my DVD collection looking for a certain movie.

                                       

                                      For this, I would suggest that you contact the producers and tell them of your wishes. Maybe they will send you an MPEG-2 of their movies - or maybe not.

                                       

                                      Good luck and you might wish to redo your workflow,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                        coolistic Level 1

                                        Thank you all for your input. Yes, I used the "interpret footage" command. It seems to do nothing at all for me - even on good footage. I am not sure why they even have that button on  there. Anyways, the Dazzle thing I realize is not a great piece of equipment, however, the footage that it creates plays fine in every application except Premiere Pro. PP is supposed to be designed for professional to edit video footage and VOB is video footage. If VOB is an end result (not designed to be edited) then it seems that there is a great market for a computer whiz to make a WHOLE lot of money by writing a computer program that WILL edit the VOB footage because with computers anything is possible, you just need a smart person to take initiative and write it.

                                         

                                         

                                        However, I have resolved this entire forum.

                                        Step 1: What you must do is create an entire new project and make sure you change all the Preference menus to match the frame rate of your VOB footage. To check the frame rate of your VOB footage just click File>Get Properrties For>File. To make sure the setting for the new project are correct go to Project>Project Settings>General and make sure it is set to DV and not HDV because DVD is not HDV. Then create a new sequence by going to File>New>Sequence and then make all the settings match the VOB file info or it will not work right.

                                        Step 2: Edit the footage as you wish.

                                        Step 3: Output footage as a file by using the File Export command. At this point you will be able to make a new frame rate if desired. You can even turn it intop Blu-Ray quality. Make this match your new frame rate in your other project. When you press "OK" it will send footage to Adobe Media Encoder to be processed.

                                        Step 4: Now you can search for the new footage and bring it into the other Project that has a different frame rate and it will play fine.

                                         

                                        The whole problem exists because the frame rate of actual footage to be imported does not match the frame rate of the created project. When they do not match Premiere Pro gets confused and cannot handle it and starts acting "buggy". I hope this helps.

                                        • 17. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                          the footage that it creates plays fine in every application except Premiere Pro.

                                           

                                          What most fail to realize is that there is a vast difference between playing and editing. That difference is what matters.

                                           

                                          I would strongly suggest that you edit in the software provided with the Dazzle, if you can, and leave PrPro out of the mix.

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                            remoran

                                            I have somewhat the same problem but not with .vobs but with DVD players. I can burn PP files flawlessly on Encore and the resulting DVDs play perfectly on Sony dvds players. The res is 720 X 480 and the file is a downsample from 1920X1080 to the aforementioned 720X480. Preview and test of the file is perfect. Frame rate is 29.97 and audio works without a problem. No menu, just insert and play. When I put the dvd in a stanalone player I get a "1". Needless to say, this is really frustrating as I can't give out DVDs that won't play on a standard player. On highend stuff, no problem. Any help on this would be terrific. The file in question is 4.09gb in size and fits on a standard dve without issu. Quality rocks.

                                             

                                            Regards,

                                             

                                            remoran

                                            • 19. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                              Welcome to the forum.

                                               

                                              This is probably an issue best taken up in the Encore Forum, but let's see if I can offer some help here.

                                               

                                              First, the DVD-spces. do not stipulate the playing of any burned DVD-Video - none whatsoever. Still, most players will play them just fine under most circumstances.

                                               

                                              Probably the most important aspect of burning DVD-Videos to insure playability is the blank media chosen. I strongly recommend either Verbatim, or Taiyo Yuden. Another recommendation has come in for Falcon blank media, but I have never used it. With Verbatim, or TY, I have had 100% success, and never one returned disc, with well over 1500 burned and delivered.

                                               

                                              Next, a slow burn speed has worked perfectly for me. Some argue that this is no longer needed, but I choose the slowest setting based on the speed of my burner and on the media, and it has worked perfectly.

                                               

                                              What brand of media did you use? There are some, like Ritek and Memorex, that get horrible reviews. I would stay with only the top brands regardless of the cost.

                                               

                                              Good luck,

                                               

                                              Hunt

                                              • 20. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                                remoran Level 1

                                                Memorex Question, what do mean about burned dvd specs? Is that in PP or Encore. Thank you for your terrific reply.

                                                 

                                                Bob

                                                • 21. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                                  Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  The specification for DVD players does not require any of them to play burned disks; just the pressed ones.

                                                  • 22. Re: Vob Import Question in Premiere Pro CS4 4.1
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    what do mean about burned dvd specs? Is that in PP or Encore?

                                                     

                                                    Bob,

                                                     

                                                    It is the set of specificitaons established to govern DVD and then BD. It was adopted by most mfgr's. What it means is that there are very strict, set specifications that govern how a player, for instance, works. Same for the design of a DVD-Video. When a player gets certified and then gets to display that little "DVD" logo, it means that it conforms to those specs. Same for having the Dolby Labs logs, and so forth.

                                                     

                                                    These specs. are not anything Adobe. They are universal. Now, some programs and hardware play pretty fast and loose with those specs., and this can get confusing.

                                                     

                                                    In the DVD-specs., no mention was made of any player having to play any burned disc, just replicated/pressed ones. All players with the logo have to adhere to the these specs. Now, what gets confusing is that one pops a burned DVD-Video into a computer's drive and it plays fine. The reason for this that there are other criteria for those computer burner/drives. If they bear the title, "Multi-drive," that basically means that they must be able to play about everything thrown at them, and most will (with proper software).

                                                     

                                                    Here is the definitive report on the DVD-specs.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                     

                                                    PS - I'd strongly suggest picking up Verbatim discs. Taiyo Yuden are great too, just not quite so readily available. Prices are very similar and worth any difference vs any others, IMO.