29 Replies Latest reply on Aug 13, 2009 12:31 PM by Ricky-T

    Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4

    Ricky-T Level 3

      Hi, i'm new to Premier, and i have a problem that in some situations, seems to just make it un-usable. I have a question and i need some advice for the future too.

      The problem is basically that i have about 1500 640x480 still images loaded up that produce a video (stills rendered from Autodesk Maya 2009). The program seems to be stable, until i try to preview the video. It plays it for a while, and then it seems as if the images further on have not loaded into memory and it causes the application to become unstable and crash most of the time. The program just all goes white and i have to force a quit through task manager, and my Page File use is upto about 3.11GB when it does this, when most other applications don't even seem to allow a pagefile of that size without becoming unstable.

       

      My question is what can i do to try and control what it is loading, so that i can work on the part i want and basically tell it it doesn't need to load the other frames yet, and when it does it can un-load the frame i was just working on. Is there a method of compressing the images loaded or anything like that? Does converting a bunch of stills to a Composition make it load better or anything? If so, how do you do this because i can't remeber from uni...or am i actually thinking of After Effects there? Essentially, i want to be able to make large videos without it crashing all of the time.

       

      My system specs are as follows:

      Windows XP 32bit

      4GB RAM (Seen as only 2.6GB due to 32bit system+Hardwear)

      Nvidia 9800GT X GPU

      500GB HDD 7200rpm

      Intel Quad Core Processor

       

      I know the fact that my computer thinks it only has 2.6GB RAM isn't ideal for Pemeire, nor is the fact that i only have 1 hard drive.

      I need some advice for a future system though. I plan to upgrade my system with the following specs over the next year:

      Windows 7 64bit

      8GB (12 if i can afford two 4GB sticks) RAM

      Nvidia 9800GT X GPU (Same as before)

      150GB HDD 10,000rpm (Windows install drive + Page File + Tertiary Scratch Disk)

      160GB HDD 7200rpm (Scratch Disk)

      500GB HDD 7200rpm (Data Storage / Secondary Scratch Disk)

       

      Any suggestions on how to improve this, and also will it be good enough to make videos of a good length and actually be able to use Premiere? I may make the 160GB HDD 7200rpm be another 150GB HDD 10,000 rpm as the primary scratch disk, but i'll have to see what money is like at the time.

       

      Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

      Ricky.T

        • 1. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Some people have found these guides worthwhile, I think:

           

          How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Windows XP 32bit

            4GB RAM (Seen as only 2.6GB due to 32bit system+Hardwear)

            Nvidia 9800GT X GPU

            500GB HDD 7200rpm

            Intel Quad Core Processor


            I'm working on a similar Project with 2000+ 720x480 images up to 175 .MOV's and several dozen .AVI Type II's, plus several hundred Titles.

             

            My system is not that different than your, with two exceptions:

             

            I have 4x 1TB SATA II's (plus others for media storage, etc.) and a heftier vid-card (will not make a difference here). I've got dual Duo-core's, but they are older. Now, I also use the +3GB switch and I get reported RAM in the neighborhood of 3.45GB. I also have my Virtual Memory static and split over two of my HDD's at 2.5x the 4GB RAM.

             

            I'd guess that between the odd RAM report and your Virtual Memory (plus everything else) on a single HDD is the issue. Even before your new system, I'd add 2x physical HDD's to give you a total of 3. Also, check that RAM out closely, something just does not look right. You might also try the +3GB switch in boot, but know that it does not work (actually creates problems) for some.

             

            My above Project loads (from a FW-800 2TB external) in about 2.5 mins. and edits like butter.

             

            Good luck, and check that RAM,

             

            Hunt

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Harm,

               

              I was coming back with links to your articles, but you beat me to it.

               

              Looking at the OP's RAM situation, what are your thoughts.

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                The RAM figure could be right if the GTX9600 is a 1 GB card. You have to keep in mind that XP 32 distracts the video memory from the available 4 GB, so with further overhead this figure does not seem abnormal.

                 

                This is the second case I've run across today where it looks like people got their sytem from a gamers shop and not a video editing shop, where the emphasis was on video performance and not on editing performance. Hence their major thrust was on video cards, where that does not pay as shown clearly by Bill Gehrke's PPBM+ test and by Jim's configuration (HD 4350), but severely lacking in disk performance. I know I've been called Mr. Storage by some, but storage is often the weakest link in a PC setup and investing in a SLI or CrossFire configuration is a waste of money. At least for NLE purposes.

                • 5. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Harm,

                   

                  Thanks for pointing out the potential for that card sapping the RAM. I just had a DUH! moment.

                   

                  Appreciated,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                    Ricky-T Level 3

                    Thanks for the link Harm Millaard, i shall read that after this.

                    I plan to update my PC in later october / early september. I noticed you said about "buying from the video games shop" instead of video editing, and you are absolutly right more or less. It is custom built, but i work in the video games field and so it is built for it as well as other cad programs such as photoshop and maya. I think that all program would beinifit from the update i plan to do anyway, but it is only premiere that i see the biggest problems with currently. I'm still using premiere to further create this video, adding more and more images to it, and it is working, but slowly, and occasionally crashing still, especially when i let it play for a bit.

                    About my RAM and graphics card; my graphics card is only 512mb vid memory, not 1gb (altho i may update to one that has that in the future but thats for different reasons). My RAM reding is 2.6GB, when it seems most others see around 3GB on a 32bit OS. My brother says it is normal that my ram is only that amount, but it did still seem fairly low to me, but my brother seems to think that all the hardwear memory combined should be making up the difference....although i wouldn't rush to protect my RAM chips considering some ram i've brought in the past....

                     

                    So what does Premier rely on the most to be stable and run nicely? Is it mostly Hard Drive space / speed? Just another question, when i have 3-4 hard drives, do i make sure that the page file is not on the same drive as the scrtch disk until last resort? I'm sure i read somewhere to keep them apart.

                    • 7. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                      it is only premiere that i see the biggest problems with currently.

                       

                      One thing to think about is that Maya uses your vid-card, and probably pretty efficiently. PS is not that stressful on a moderated system, until one works with very large image files (lots of Layers, and Adjustment Layers) and/or applies CPU intensive Filters. Until recently, I was running PS 4 on a 3.26 P4 w/ 512MB RAM and only a couple of HDD's. Now, this unit was set up to run older 3D paint programs, that could not even load with 512MB RAM. Even iwth these limitations, I still had no issue with 11x17 images with a ton of Layers.

                       

                      Now, an NLE is very intensive for any system. People look at playback of AV files as a reason to rule out any system problem. Unfortunately, playing an AV is vastly different than editing that same AV file. This is greatly compounded, when one uses media that requires a lot of CPU power (not really your case here - just a general statement).

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                        Ricky-T Level 3

                        I think Photoshop's memory managment is done better than Pemiere's because it works differently. I rearly have problems with any other programs, and it's saft to say that premiere appears to be the most stressful on my system which, to be honest, i wasn't expecting it to be, but it does make sense that it is. Occasionally Maya will crash due to a pure Lack of Memory error, and i know exactly what to do to fix that...add more RAM, but i need the money first. It seems that permier doesn't care about ram as much as it does hard drive space. I'm not entiraly sure how permiere loads files compaired to standard applications, because it loads from directories, so what would speed that up? After the file has loaded, it still takes a good minuet before i can even view most of the images because it says they are still loading at the bottom.

                         

                        Just a quick question, would the fact that i have twin monitors have any toll on there only being 2.6GB ram showing?

                         

                        And another one, what is RAID for? Do you use it as a scratch disk and nothing else? The only thing i can see that is different from any other drive is it is accessed faster or something to that affect.

                        • 9. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Let me tell you what happened in the past. I had an old P4 3.4 CPU with only 2 GB of RAM and a mere 3 TB of disk space (6 disks) and while editing HDV material I got numerous hangups, BSOD's and restarts. The number of expletives were very large, I can assure you. Mainly this was caused by PSU and temperature problems.

                           

                          I upgraded to what some call a 'massive rig' that requires a 10 KV pole to run. OK, it is not run-of-the-mill, but not extreme either, at least IMO.

                          I found that the better CPU helped, as did the memory and the disk setup, but I'm not convinced the GPU did carry a lot of weight. I can't tell you what is the most important factor, but my guess is that in decending order it is CPU, memory and disk with GPU being least important. It definitely helped to have the i7 OC'ed to 3.6 GHz, to have 12 GB of RAM and to have an average read transfer rate of over 850 MB/s on my media drive (no, that is not kidding you, that is real and it is MegaBytes per second), around 10 times as fast as a single drive.

                           

                          In building my new system I paid special attention to cooling and PSU aspects (because of all previous problems) and can now say that I have a completely reliable, stable and cool system, that performs quite well, despite the 10 KV pole requirements.

                          • 10. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                            I think Photoshop's memory managment is done better than Pemiere's because it works differently. I rearly have problems with any other programs, and it's saft to say that premiere appears to be the most stressful on my system which, to be honest, i wasn't expecting it to be, but it does make sense that it is.

                             

                            Let's think about this for a moment. It is not so much that PS handles memory better, but that the material is different. Try to open 54000 small (720x480) JPEG's in PS. This is not possible, even on my workstation, and not even Harm's "super-system." Your program will reject such a request, or your system will crash. That is only 30 mins. of NTSC Video. Premiere does this with ease, plus lets you view these in pretty good form. Pretty amazing, when one thinks about it.

                             

                            Yes, NLE work (and we're not just talking PrPro here) IS stressful. When so many hardware writers test systems with database crunching, etc., I tend to laugh. Install an NLE, process AVCHD material, and then tell us how that system performs.

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                              Ricky-T Level 3

                              A question, does NLE stand for NonLinear Editing? Explan this more please.

                              So Harm, you say in order of importance, CPU, RAM, HDD, GPU. i definatly agree with video memory not really taking a big part because as far as i am awear it is only used for visual effects, seen more in after effects. My CPU is Quad core, 2.66GHtz, and it seems fine, but there are one or two operations i carry out from time-to-time that could be speed up by a fast cpu, so many one day i will get that upgraded, but its not a must fr me at the moment. I definatly need more than 1 hard driver though, because i can't afford to loose most of the work on this ciomputer, so i would plan to have windows on a seperate drive.

                              A quick question there, if you install applications on a seperate drive from windows, if windows fails and needs to be re-installed, i wouldn't need to re-instal the applications again aswell would i?

                              I use a program called Everest to primarily monitor my computers tempretures, and most of it at the moment is aprantly about 1-2° below the average, due to a 360mm fan on the side of my case.

                              In the end, my goal here is to keep my computer optimised for computer graphics for creating next gen video games and higher, but i want permiere to also be usable properly, which i'm sure it isn't currently, because i can use it for many things. Do you think my computer upgrade i stated earlier will be suficient for this? To handle the creation of large videos without crashing the computer.

                              Thanks for the help you both giving me so far by the way. very much appreciated!

                              • 12. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                the_wine_snob Level 9
                                does NLE stand for NonLinear Editing? Explan this more please.

                                 

                                Ricky,

                                 

                                You "done broke the code... " Sorry that I used forum-speak and did not do a paranthetic comment to define that. This is a group of Video editing programs, that encompass PrPro, FCP (Final Cut Pro), many flavors of AVID, and the like. In really general terms, almost any Video editing program.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                  if you install applications on a seperate drive from windows, if windows fails and needs to be re-installed, i wouldn't need to re-instal the applications again aswell would i?

                                   

                                  Most (all?) Adobe programs want to be installed on the C:\, along with the OS. Doing anything else is very likely to cause issues.

                                   

                                  Yes, if you have no backup, Ghost, slipstream, etc. for your C:\, you will have to do a complete reinstall for both the OS and the programs. Backups are cheap and there are many hurdles out there, trying to do anything else.

                                   

                                  Now, proper allocation of other I/O assets will help you, but please do not try to outsmart the Adobe programs, as to their preferred locations. You'll fight that all too much.

                                   

                                  Good luck,

                                   

                                  Hunt

                                  • 14. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    I upgraded to what some call a 'massive rig' that requires a 10 KV pole to run. OK, it is not run-of-the-mill, but not extreme either, at least IMO.

                                     

                                    For ILM, no it's not extreme. In fact it's probably something of a wimp.

                                     

                                    But for the average Adobe user, it's extreeeeeme baby!

                                    • 15. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Ricky,

                                       

                                      In your case I would guess that first order of priority is getting a couple of internal hard disks, second is upgrading memory to 8 GB and going to Windows 7 64 bit.

                                      • 16. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                        Ricky-T Level 3

                                        Ok, so first chance i get i'll upgrade to windows 7 64bit and buy 2 other hard drives. Does anyone know if having a hard drive that is 10,000 and 15,000rpm, is really noticably faster when in use? Or is it only a minor difference from the 7200rpm when in use?

                                         

                                        Also, is Adobe After Effects an NLE application?

                                        • 17. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Ricky,

                                           

                                          The only economical disks are 7200 RPM SATA disks. An alternative would be the 10000 RPM WD Velociraptors, which are slightly faster because of the higher RPM's but the advatage is offset by the lower amount of cache on those disks (16 MB versus 32 MB). The much more exoensive solution is to use SCSI disks in either 10K or 15K RPM versions, but they require a SCSI controller and are limited to max 300 GB U320 or a few SAS models with 450 GB. For mere mortals this is too expensive.

                                           

                                          AE is an After Effects tool, as the name implies, not an NLE. It is used for compositing and rotoscoping.

                                          • 18. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                            Ricky-T Level 3

                                            Ah rite. Our teacher at uni seemed to make out that all special effects where done in it if they weren't 3D other than basic transitions and stuff like that. What would be an example of a NLE program and what do they do?

                                             

                                            So are the "faster" hard drives actually not much faster at all because of the cache amount? Also, to scratch disk hard driver have to be dedicated, or can they have other data on them and still run as fine?

                                            • 19. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                              Harm Millaard Level 7
                                              What would be an example of a NLE program and what do they do?

                                               

                                              Avid, Edius, FCP, Premiere, Vegas to name a few. Edit video.

                                               

                                              Scratch disks do not have to be dedicated.

                                              • 20. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                Ricky-T Level 3

                                                Ok. I use Premiere. Editing video is fine and runs fine, but its when i want to see it playback it crashes or slows right down.

                                                • 21. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                  Ricky-T Level 3

                                                  Is the playback freeze normal behaviour?

                                                   

                                                  I have another question that i guess i dont need to open a new topic for, so i'll ask here quick. I want chang the opacity of part of my video over time, which i know how to do to video footage, but not to a bunch of still images because it only lets me chnage the opacity over time of a single frame. Is there a way of putting a bunch of images that make up a sequence togther to allow a global edit of them like video? Or is this done differently, or should i maybe be turning to After Effetcs for this type of porblem now?

                                                  • 22. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                    Opacity for stills is the same as with real video clips. Copy the first still, then select all the others stills and paste attributes to copy the opacity settings to all the other selected stills.

                                                    • 23. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      The Copy/Paste technique will work fine if every still needs to start at the same opacity and end at the same opacity.  But if the entire range of stills needs to slowly change, the way to do it is to nest the sequence, and apply the effect to that.

                                                       

                                                      Now, before any questions about nesting are asked, I will say that the Help file should be consulted in full.  Don't try to use Premiere on a project before you read that all the way through.  Try each new thing as you learn it on a scrap project.  Go in sequence from beginning to end.  Look up any words (like NLE for example) that you come across and don't fully understand.

                                                       

                                                      Only attempt a real project once you've read and tried everything in the Help file.  Only come here if you have questions not answered in the Help file.

                                                      • 24. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                        Ricky-T Level 3

                                                        I wanted the opacity to chnage over time over a series of stills, and thank you!! Nesting is what i was after. It was only After Effects that made a bunch of things go into a "Composition" then.

                                                        As for the help documentation, i couldnt use it in this case because i didn't know what to look for. As for finding NLE in it, i didn't think it would have anything to do with Premiere until i was told premiere is one of them. Thanks for the help though and i will be sure to use the help more often.

                                                         

                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------

                                                        I have finished my project, but i have a new poroblem. I want the exported video to work on Youtube, but it doesn't; it comes out all grey (for some reason) and is basically just a bunch of jittering artifacts; the video is completely elegable....

                                                         

                                                        I remeber our teacher saying that he always uses the CODEC H264 because it is good quality amongst other reasons, which i found it was, but clearly Youtube doesn't like this.

                                                         

                                                        What format would be suggested for maximum quality, but also fully compatible with Youtube / the web?

                                                        • 25. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                          I remeber our teacher saying that he always uses the CODEC H264 because it is good quality amongst other reasons, which i found it was, but clearly Youtube doesn't like this.

                                                           

                                                          For many, the H.264 CODEC does work with YouTube pretty well. As YouTube changes their specs. often, I'd suggest that you take a look at their specs. du jour. Also, they have a forum of YouTube users, and they will likely be up-to-date on what works best today.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                            Ricky-T Level 3

                                                            According to this sheet, my video should have been fully suported.

                                                            http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en-uk&answer=132460

                                                             

                                                            Video:

                                                            Resolution: 640x480

                                                            Bit Rate: (unsure but it says it doesn't matter)

                                                            Frame Rate: 25fps

                                                            CODEC: H.264

                                                             

                                                            Audio:

                                                            CODEC: AAC

                                                            Sample Rate: 44.1 kHz

                                                            Channels: Stereo

                                                             

                                                            And i don't understand what this means or or to set it up?? Container: MPEGTS (MPEG2 transport stream)

                                                             

                                                            The file size was 24.4MB, and youtube allows vidoes upto 2GB in size, and there were no problems uploading either. What else could be casuing it?

                                                            • 27. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                              And i don't understand what this means or or to set it up?? Container: MPEGTS (MPEG2 transport stream)

                                                               

                                                              It means that one can also use MPEG-2 compression in the m2ts container. This is similar to, but different than, H.264. In the end, they do about the same thing, though they do it quite differently.

                                                               

                                                              What are you exact, and complete Export Settings? Might be a clue for someone there.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                                Ricky-T Level 3

                                                                This is my video result on youtube:

                                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1Hsavomvs

                                                                 

                                                                And i wasn't sure exactly what information would be required, so i screen shot the exporter 3 times and put them togetehr to make this screen shot with the information:

                                                                http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/rickyt_album/help.png

                                                                • 29. Re: Controlling Memory Managment on PP CS4
                                                                  Ricky-T Level 3

                                                                  Anything unusual with any of the settings? Any help would be appreciated.