24 Replies Latest reply on Aug 13, 2009 6:56 PM by Jeff Bellune

    Rendering time

    chuck122441

      Has anyone been following the progress, if any, that Adobe might be making in CS4 in the handling of 1080p .mts files?  While I do expect some render time because I'm taking HD and crunching it to MS .avi SD, the time is, shall we say, a heck of a lot.  Also, to get any quality I have to check both "maximize quality" options.  This also adds to the time.  I am now rendering a 3 min production.  It has disolves, not graphics, an extra layer of audio in some places, but not much.  AME informs me it will take well over an hour to accomplish this.  I have a Matrox card left over from my CS3 days.  Matrox used to take over a lot of the rendering from Premiere and as a result it was fast.  I've heard nothing from Matrox if they will update thier product to do this in CS4.  Meantime, any clue that Adobe is working on this?  I do not have the option of going for less quality.

      Chuck

        • 1. Re: Rendering time
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Either get a faster PC, or wait for Matrox to come out with a RT-X5 which is planned with the upcoming release of CS5 (somewhere in 2010 or 2011) and give up a lot of $$ on that, or use Dan Isaacs method: http://www.precomposed.com/blog/2009/07/hd-to-sd-dvd-best-methods/

          • 2. Re: Rendering time
            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

            You can get away with shorter render times if you:

            • Do not nest the 1080p sequence in an SD sequence, and
            • Only select Maximum Render Quality in the AME flyout menu, not in the Sequence Settings dialog.

             

            With 1080p30 footage and 8 cores, I get about 6x to 7x RT (a 2-minute sequence takes about 13 1/2 minutes to render).

             

            Nesting will increase that to over 15x RT here, but give no increase in quality.

             

            -Jeff

            • 3. Re: Rendering time
              Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

              Also, make sure you are exporting to a lossless codec.  Don't use DV.  I recommend Lagarith for .avi files.

               

              -Jeff

              • 4. Re: Rendering time
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Harm,

                 

                Thanks for the link to the re-print of Dan's workflow. I thought that I had a recent, live Bookmark to it, but all of mine were now dead - only got the Adobe main forum page. Had not seen this one before and I guess that my search criteria were too Adobe-centric to get to this one.

                 

                Appreciated and now bookmarked,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Rendering time
                  chuck122441 Level 1

                  Harm,

                    Tomorrow I am going to download the "Dan Issacs method" and give it a try.  A fast PC I have.  However, at this moment, I have AME batch encoding 4 files, the longest of which is a five min. video.  The other three are between 3 and 4 min.  According to the time indicator on the screen, this will take 5 hours.  I knew I was in for longer rendering time, but this is beyond hope.  If the "method" works, fine.  If not, I will be shopping for new software.  Someone out there has to have an editing package, Final Cut, Avid, etc., that can give me a rendering time that will keep me in business.

                    I am shooting on a Panasonic 150p that produces .mts files that import into Premiere CS4 just fine.  The editing is a bit shaky, but I can live with it.  The major two problems are rendering time and video quality.  It appears Adobe missed the train on this one.

                    Thank you for your guidance,

                  chuck

                  • 6. Re: Rendering time
                    chuck122441 Level 1

                    Jeff,

                       I have found the Lagarith codec.  Just how do I get it, once downloaded, into the Adobe pulldown menu of choices.  I do need to do something.  As I sit here, I have 4 vides, none over 5 min. in AME.  the time indicator says it will be in excess of 5 hours before the files are finished.  At that rate, I won't be in business much longer.  CS4 has been a big disappointment.  It would appear that Adobe, despite their marketing at trade shows, is not yet up to the tech level needed to handle .mts files except only under ideal situations.   At this point all of my final products have to be rendered down to SD and that Adobe apparently can't do very well, or I haven't found out the magic answer.

                    Chuck

                    • 7. Re: Rendering time
                      the_wine_snob Level 9
                      It appears Adobe missed the train on this one.

                       

                      I believe that several would share your sentiments on this one.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Rendering time
                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                        What version of Windows (x86 or x64)?

                         

                        What version of Lagarith (x86 or x64)?

                         

                        How many cores?  Speed?

                         

                        With only a dual core, for example, one can expect about 30x RT rendering times.

                         

                        Be sure to configure Lagarith for the YUY2 color space and enable multithreading.

                         

                        -Jeff

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Rendering time
                          chuck122441 Level 1

                          Update:  I have Vista 64.  Apparently have downloaded the 64 version of Langrity, but there's no way I can really determine that.  Speed, I have 4 cores.

                          With the configuration you suggested, AMEis telling me it will take 38 min. to encode a 90sec video.  There is still something amiss or somthing I'm missing big time.  And I still have that very "soft" look in the rendered videos.  I've tried to contact Adobe on the issue, but so far have not had a response.

                          Thank you for your suggestions so far.

                          • 10. Re: Rendering time
                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                            Uninstall the 64-bit version of Lagarith and install the 32-bit version.

                             

                            Premiere Pro CS4 and the AME CS4 are both 32-bit apps and can't access a 64-bit codec.

                             

                            That should help immensely.

                             

                            The other thing you can try is outputting a 4:2:2 I-frame only MPEG2 file.  That should encode pretty quickly as well.  But I would try to get Lagarith working first.

                             

                            BTW, I assume "Langrity" really means "Lagarith".  If not, please explain.

                             

                            -Jeff

                            • 11. Re: Rendering time
                              chuck122441 Level 1

                              Jeff,

                                By turning off the "Use Maximum Render Quality" in the AME export settings, I am getting much faster rendering.  However, it is the same soft quality, even with this new Codec.

                              • 12. Re: Rendering time
                                chuck122441 Level 1

                                First, I didn't see a choice in the download of 32 or 64 bit versions.? Just where do I find that?? Next task is to eliminate the codec....done that.? I'll look at the website and see if I have options.

                                 

                                Then move to your suggesed step two.? Thank you so much

                                 

                                Chuck

                                • 13. Re: Rendering time
                                  chuck122441 Level 1

                                  I found the manual download and in that file is the 32-bit version.? However, following his instructions, I'm not getting anywhere.? Right click on lagarith.inf and select install.? I get nothing to select from.? Any clue here??

                                  • 14. Re: Rendering time
                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                    It looks like the new installer for 1.3.20 installs both versions.  At least it did here.  Does Lagarith show up as an option for Codec in the Microsoft AVI Video settings?

                                     

                                    "Maximum Render Quality" is what will take away that soft look and greatly improve the quality of your exports.  But it's going to cost you time.  A 90-second 1280x720 sequence should take a quad core system about 11-12 minutes to render, and a 1920x1080 sequence should take about 30-40 minutes to render.  That's with all cores fully utilized by the AME.

                                     

                                    -Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: Rendering time
                                      chuck122441 Level 1

                                      I have reinstalled and the codec indeed shows up in Microsoft AVI.....

                                       

                                      So, I'll turn the Max Render back on and you suggest a finished file as what?

                                       

                                      Chuck

                                      • 16. Re: Rendering time
                                        chuck122441 Level 1

                                        OK, oped up Codec settings and clicked multithreading and selected yuy2.

                                        • 17. Re: Rendering time
                                          chuck122441 Level 1

                                          The other thing you can try is outputting a 4:2:2 I-frame only MPEG2 file.? That

                                          should encode pretty quickly as well.? But I would try to get Lagarith working

                                          first.

                                           

                                           

                                          I'm speculating you mean this instad of using Lagarith?? And, while the I-fram MPEG2 would encode quickly, I would still have the quality issue??

                                           

                                          Chuck

                                          • 18. Re: Rendering time
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                            As for choosing an export format and codec from Pr, that depends a lot on what your intended delivery medium is.

                                             

                                            Both Lagarith and the 4:2:2 MPEG2 export codec options are designed as intermediate files that can be used as source files  in the AME or other applications for encoding to Flash, Quicktime, DVD, Windows Media, etc.

                                             

                                            Maximum Render Quality is what improves the quality of your video, not the export codec.

                                             

                                            -Jeff

                                            • 19. Re: Rendering time
                                              chuck122441 Level 1

                                              Mostly the work is going to DVD.? Also, I have chosen "Progressive" rather than upper or lower fields.?

                                               

                                              I have just started the rendering of a 90 second video and AME indicates it will take 33 min.?

                                               

                                              Chuck

                                              • 20. Re: Rendering time
                                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                I definitely would NOT use progressive, unless that is how you shot it on camera. If you shot interlaced, keep it interlaced. Otherwise you will be throwing out half your vertical resolution. Keep in mind that HDV is UFF and DVD is LFF. So be aware of field reversal.

                                                • 21. Re: Rendering time
                                                  chuck122441 Level 1

                                                  Thank you.? While I recently changed the camera setting to progressive, I now recall these interviews were shot interlaced.? So I've now selected "lower" and will render as such.? I now have the progressive selction on my camera and future videos will shot in that mode unless you have other advice,?Those videos I have processed with?"progressive" selected in AME and with the Maximum encoding checked.? I am pretty happy with the results I'm getting with that. Unless, you were to say I'll run into problems when I encode into DVD.? What a journey.? Remember when it was video tape and A-B roll editing??

                                                   

                                                  Chuck?

                                                  • 22. Re: Rendering time
                                                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                    If the source files that are interlaced were AVCHD .mts files, then they are UFF *and all subsequent exports must stay UFF*.  MPEG2 DVD video can easily be encoded as UFF with no problems whatsoever.

                                                     

                                                    Since DVD is your final delivery format, then the intermediate files you are creating (interlaced, UFF) can be added to the AME directly and encoded to MPEG2 DVD (UFF).

                                                     

                                                    You could also export your HD sequence directly to UFF MPEG2 DVD, but if you do that, I would recommend 2-pass VBR to maintain the best quality as you go from HD AVCHD to SD MPEG2 DVD.  That will double your render time.

                                                     

                                                    -Jeff

                                                    • 23. Re: Rendering time
                                                      chuck122441 Level 1

                                                      I will give this a try and see if I can rescue this project.?? Two weeks ago I started shooting in progressive and thus rendering in progressive, MS .avi.? I seem to be getting much better image quality and most of the soft look is gone.? Would it be an added improvement if I rendered in MPEG2 DVD to SD using vbr 2-pass?? Do you see any downside to shooting in progressive?

                                                       

                                                      C

                                                      • 24. Re: Rendering time
                                                        Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                        If you're shooting in progressive, then keep everything progressive.  If you're shooting interlaced and you will deliver on SD DVD, then keep everything interlaced.

                                                         

                                                        This will go a long way to achieving the best end result that you can get.

                                                         

                                                        -Jeff