20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 17, 2009 8:34 PM by Jim_Simon

    Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!

    AhmedKayihan

      Hi all,

       

      I have HDV footage that was captured from a rented Sony HDV cam. We captured all the clips with Premiere Pro CS3.

       

      When i preview them with windows media player, all is fine. When I add them onto the timeline, i realise that a section of the audio (lets say the first 20 minutes)  keeps on repeating itself throughout the entire sequence.

       

      I looked at the bottom right hand corner of the screen, and i clicked on the warning icon, and it read:

       

      "C:\FILM SHOW.mpeg: Timecode inconsistency in MPEG srteam detected around frame 47858. Audio may be out of syn by 1319 frames"

       

      I need urgent help as we have returned the camera to its store and we have to finish this project as soon as possible.

       

      Thank You

        • 1. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Rent the camera another day and recapture with HDVSplit, which is freeware and does a much better job of capturing than PR.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
            AhmedKayihan Level 1

            well the problem is, the camera is about 300 dollars (AU) to rent..

             

             

             

            i'm thinking is there anything that can be done to repair the file, because windows media player and movie maker show it perfectly.

             

             

             

            thanks

            • 3. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
              AhmedKayihan Level 1

              well the problem is, the camera is about 300 dollars (AU) to rent..

              i'm thinking is there anything that can be done to repair the file, because windows media player and movie maker show it perfectly.

              thanks

              • 4. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                You can try to delete the media cache, reopen the project and let indexing and conforming run its course and after you are really sure that is done, try editing. Maybe that will help solve a possibly corrupted cache file, but I would assume you already tried that.

                 

                Since you have the original tapes, maybe try to rent a more affordable HDV camera for the day and recapture is an alternative.

                • 5. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                  Colin-B Level 1

                  If the problem just seems to be with the audio, then perhaps an external tool may be able to extract the audio successfully which you could then add as a separate audio track. The demo version of DVMP Pro should be able to extract the audio from the m2t file to a .wav - it might be worth trying that before hiring a camera again.

                  • 6. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                    AhmedKayihan Level 1

                    ok i will try that out, and i got a whole lot of more ideas to try. when im out of all of dem, ill probably hire a new cam and recapture

                    • 7. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                      Fighting Sticks Level 2

                      So it seems you've learnt that if you don't religiously maintain an unbroken time code during the shoot that basically you end up in the hell of stuffed audio.  You maintain unbroken timecode by overfilming each shot, rewinding the tape back into the last shot just a touch then recording the next shot from there.  They teach you this as lesson one so if you're cameraman isn't doing it - kill him.  It will save you lots of headsches.  As indicated if the timecode is broken , you're stuffed.  Hiring the camera to capture it aint going to be a fix and as for reshooting, well if you couldn't get it right the first time what makes you so sure you'll get it right the second time.  This is where audio post production starts with ADR and Foley.  But if you're production must have the 'on-location' why not try a simple fix like holding a microphone near the speaker as it plays in Windows media player and recording it into PPro that way as a sound file.  You could use PPro's denoiser to clean it up and whamo, a quick fix - no one will notice that bald spot you've got from pulling your hair out.

                      • 8. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        If you do separate out the Audio, this ARTICLE might give you some tips on re-establishing sync.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Sticks,

                           

                          I'm not fighting you, but

                           

                          You maintain unbroken timecode by overfilming each shot, rewinding the tape back into the last shot just a touch then recording the next shot from there.  They teach you this as lesson one so if you're cameraman isn't doing it - kill him.  It will save you lots of headsches.  As indicated if the timecode is broken , you're stuffed.

                           

                          this dates back to the previous century from the era of analog cameras. Rewinding and overfilming is nonsense, since all cameras (at least serious cameras) have the 'find blank' function, so you never need to overfilm. And even if the timecode is broken, you are not stuffed. It just takes a little bit more effort to capture and identify the correct scene.

                          • 10. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                            AhmedKayihan Level 1

                            how could i capture and identify the correct screen. should i hire a new cam?

                            • 11. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                              Fighting Sticks Level 2

                              Harm,

                              No mate, if you were my cameraman standing there holding a AUS$290 a day Sony HDR-FX1 saying that to me guess what would happen, chk chk boom!  This aint an Analog camera, maybe it's not 'high end' but it is one Adobe 'supports'.  If you don't rewind the tape on this model you will get timecode errors.  I've experienced this, also Chk Adobe's website, they even advise you to do this.  Chk this out - http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/3.0/help.html?content=WS1c9bc5c2e465a58a91cf0b 1038518aef7-7f7e.html

                              Maybe in future a disclaimer advising you are giving advice contrary to Adobe's would be appropriate

                              Ahmed Kayihan,

                              Did you actually read my last post to you?  It contains my advise what whether you should rehire, but it's your money.  But I don't understand what you said about the correct screen is your last post, please explain?

                              • 12. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                You maintain unbroken timecode by overfilming each shot, rewinding the tape back into the last shot just a touch then recording the next shot from there.

                                 

                                DV (and I presume HDV) cameras do this by default.  Doing it manually will likely cause more problems than it solves.

                                • 13. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  also Chk Adobe's website

                                   

                                  "Striping is not necessary if you follow recommended shooting practices."

                                   

                                  Those recommendations are:

                                   

                                  1. Don't rewind the tape.

                                  2. Don't remove the tape until you're done shooting on that tape.

                                  3. Once you remove a tape, don't reuse it or continue with it.  Always start with a new, unused tape (meaning NO STRIPING).

                                  • 14. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                    Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                    Sorry my bad!

                                    I gave the wrong link above, D'oh.  I don't reccommend striping at all.  But when I try to link to PPro Help section on the page, 'About timecode' it links to the page on striping.  Striping is like hitting your finger twice with a hammer, unneccesary.  Here's a cut and paste of the page I want to send; -

                                    About timecode

                                    Many camcorders and high‑end video decks record timecode, which marks specific frames with unique addresses. Timecode is important whenever you want to capture exactly the same frames that were identified or captured previously, as in the following tasks:

                                    • You want to log clips before you capture them.

                                    • You plan to capture clips using batch (automated) capture.

                                    • You want to recapture clips because the original files became corrupted or were deleted.

                                    • You plan to export sequences to another system by using AAF or EDL.

                                    • You’re using a system in which you edit quickly with low‑resolution captures, and later recapture the clips at full resolution and quality for the final version.

                                    • You plan to synchronize captured video with audio recorded separately.

                                      Unlike the numbers on time counters found in home VCRs, timecode is recorded onto videotape as part of the video signal. If footage lacks timecode, you can add it by copying it with a camera or deck that writes timecode. You can then log or capture the video from that device.

                                      For best results, timecode should run continuously from the beginning to the end of the tape; it shouldn’t restart from zero anywhere in the middle. In editing, if you log a capture In point such as 00:00:01:09 but that number occurs on the tape two or three times because of timecode restarts, Adobe Premiere Pro can’t be certain which 00:00:01:09 is the place to start its capture. It can easily capture the wrong clips from tapes with discontinuous timecode.

                                      To ensure unbroken timecode, you need to either shoot it continuously or stripe your tape with it before shooting.

                                      To ensure that you always shoot continuous timecode, record at least 5 seconds of extra video past the end of the action in any shot. If you review a clip in the camera, be sure to rewind the tape back into that 5‑second margin before recording again. Your camcorder reads the timecode from the frame on which you stop and begins recording timecode with the very next frame number when you start your next shot. Be careful; if you leave a gap between the last frame of the previous shot and the first frame of the next, the camcorder begins writing timecode at 00:00:00:00 again.

                                     

                                    But Jim,

                                    No mate, if you presume all HDV camera's do this by default, you'd be incorrect and although such a presumption here is OK - in real life with real money this erronous presumption could end up costing a production a lot of unnecessary angst and extra work.  Here's my advice, follow what Adobe advises you to do.

                                    • 15. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                      Colin-B Level 1

                                      I suspect that the error message may not be referring to "timecode" as such, but the video and audio MPEG timestamps. Perhaps the video or audio timestamps suddenly jump out of agreement with each other.

                                      • 16. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                                        I would attribute the timecode problems you mention with the FX1 to either OE (in the menu settings or handling) or a defect in the camera. The bigger brother of the FX1, the Z1 does not show that behaviour, nor the A1/G1/H1 from Canon, nor any of the smaller HDV cameras that I have used. Neither have I ever experienced that with DV cameras, whether VX2000/VX2100/PD150/PD170/DSR200 or any other model I have used.

                                         

                                        You can generate these errors however, by recording, switching to VCR, playing back your shot, switching to camera mode and shooting the next shot. The proper way to do it if you need to watch what you just shot, is switch to VCR, play back your shot, AND THEN USE BLANK SEARCH before your next shot. If you do not do this, you can create these timecode problems, but I would catagorize these under OE.

                                        • 17. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                          Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Run your captured footage through HDVSplit and let it scene split, then you will have small clips and no sync problem.

                                          • 18. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                            Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                            No chance Harm,

                                            When you're capturing off of all these camera's you're obviously using HDVSplit and not capturing directly into PPro.  You should clarify this.

                                            • 19. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                              Fighting Sticks Level 2

                                              I very much need to sincerely apologise to Harm. It's called the 'END Search' function - my OE and I can't tell you how much this little secret would have saved me time angst and effort in the past.  Harm you are GREAT!  If only I'd had that arguement with you 2 yrs ago.  I am very sorry for belittling you amongst a forum of your peers and ask you to please accept that I'm not usually prone to such venom, but this software seems to get me sometimes.  I now realise that I should sut my mouth and be very careful about trying to be knowledgable any more.  I'm really very sorrry for the things I said, I was ignorant, rude and really regret what I said.  Have a good day.  Everything you type here now I'll regard as from the lips of a messiah instead of treating like a pariah.  I am sorry.

                                              • 20. Re: Timecode inconsistency - audio out of sync ?!
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                It's called the 'END Search' function - my OE and I can't tell you how much this little secret would have saved me time angst and effort in the past.

                                                 

                                                You'd have had no issues, nor wanted for lack of that 'secret', had you followed good shooting practices.

                                                 

                                                1. Don't rewind the tape. (No reviewing, keep it in camera mode.)

                                                2. Don't remove the tape until you're done shooting on that tape.

                                                3. Once you remove a tape, don't reuse it or continue with it.  Always start with a new, unused tape..