11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 22, 2009 10:47 AM by the_wine_snob

    Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?

    BJBBJB1 Level 1

      I spend a lot of time in Premiere taking a stereo 2 channel camcorder mix and creating what I would call a Pseudo 5.1 mix to ouput to DVD or Blu-Ray with 5.1 sound.....typically spreading the stereo signal around into multiple channels so I get the mix of the left and right in the center.....a far left and right for separation, and then the left and right moved back a bit just to get some background depth.

       

      Other times I will put some music in the other discrete channels.  I think I am doing it the most efficient way as I have read the tutorials on how to create a 5.1 sequence and that is how I have done it.

       

      Anyway, I was wondering if there is any type of plug-in that streamlines some of the steps in this workflow that are rather repetitive project to project.  That would help take a stereo audio track and do the panning and percentage changing and mixing and get me what I am looking for.

       

      Thanks,

       

      BJBBJB1

        • 1. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Never heard of such a plug-in.

          • 2. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            I have.  It's called Upmix from Cycling.  Unfortunately, it's no longer being developed.  They still support it, but if you don't yet have it, I don't think you can get it.

            • 3. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              As Jim points out, what you are doing is Upmixing. I'd not heard of the plug-in that he mentioned though.

               

              I find that it's best to do exactly what you are doing, and do it by ear. I'm not saying that it would be impossible to develop algorithms to do most of it automatically (obviously someone was working on doing just that), but then you still have go in and tweak, based on your actual source material, factored into how you want the Audio to perform.

               

              In very general terms, I find that a bit of Reverb and some Delay in the Ls and Rs channels add to the feeling of depth. Depending on several things, I may break apart this stereo pair and apply these Effects slightly differently to one surround channel, or the other. It just depends on that source material and the "sound stage" that I want to create.

               

              One tip: for your front L & R, do not separate them so much that you loose the Phantom Center. A bit of that, plus the real Center channel, can add to the depth.

               

              Tip two: You might want to experiment with NOT using the Fill-Left/Fill-Right on your dialog channel. Bias it towards the Center channel, and leave a bit of it (in mono) bleeding to the L & R channels. Experiment and see if you don't gain focus with the dialog. I've used 3 dupes of my mono dialog with this, and attenuated the feed to the L and to the R, with maybe a touch of Reverb in those feeds. I'm talking pretty good attenuation and only slight Reverb.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                BJBBJB1 Level 1

                Thanks to all for your thoughts!

                 

                I couldn't find that plug-in as warned.

                 

                Hunt, I will certainly take note of your ideas for my next project!

                 

                I guess there is a way to save my upmix surround "sequence" but I have not had good luck doing that.

                 

                Thanks,

                BJBBJB1

                • 5. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  In my case, I use the Minnetonka SurCode DD 5.1 SS encoder plug-in to produce DD 5.1 SS (faux of course, though the usually mono SFX files are located in the sound field and are thus real, when I Export). There may be others, and there are stand-alones. Each of these might want the resulting files from PrPro done differently.

                   

                  I also do DTS for some Proects, and Export as a 6-channel .WMA. This is brought into Audition, and then Exported as 6 discrete .WAV files located in the surround field in Audion and Exported as such. These 6 discrete .WAV files are Imported into the SurCode DTS stand-alone encoder for the production of a DTS file. This must be used as an "optional" Audio Track in Encore, and accessible via Menu. Other DD 5.1 SS stand-alone encoders will probably be similar in what they need and how they work. Remember, the only Audio tracks allowed for DVD-Video will be PCM/WAV, or fully-compliant AC3's. In PAL-land, MPEG Audio was "optional," but is falling out of favor, or "favour," as we're talking about PAL-land.

                   

                  If you do acquire the Minnetonka SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in, do this from within PrPro, as it will be discounted over the price on their Web site.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                    BJBBJB1 Level 1

                    Hunt,

                     

                    If I understand correctly, I need the Minnetonka product regardless to generate a 5.1 DVD or Blu-Ray in CS4 PP which is my new platform am I correct?

                     

                    I should have mentioned I am in the middle of moving from a CS3 setup with a variety of plug-ins and am trying to start fresh with CS4 on a new PC.  I guess one of the many plug-ins I have for CS3 and CS3PP must have helped handle the 5.1 encoding in the prior version for me.  Althgough it definitely did not do anything automatic for me in the mixing area.  I set that up so long ago not even sure

                     

                    I was sent to a variety of good links with the Minnetonka SurCode name.  So it sounds like I need to purchase this for CS4 regardless if I want to maintain the 5.1 soundfield from editing through encore and burning of DVD's and Blu-Ray's with Encore.  Transitioning is so much fun!

                     

                    Your DTS workflow sounds interesting for some of the more audio-intensive work.

                     

                     

                    Thanks again,

                     

                     

                    BJB1

                    • 7. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      PrPro will allow a DD 5.1 SS Project, regardless of the Export/Encode. Now, if you can Export a DD 5.1 SS encoded AC3, then you have the SurCode, or another plug-in for your CS3. I think that the SurCode plug-in will work, as is, in CS4.1. There was a problem with earlier CS4 versions, but I believe that CS4.1 has addressed and fixed these issues. Now, if you do not have the SurCode, AND you can Export encoded DD 5.1 SS, you must have some encoder. I would check into this. AME should give you the info as to which encoder is being used for this. If it is the SurCode, you should be able to transfer that activation to CS4.1. Check with Minnetonka TS. They are quick to respond and will help you. Tell them that you will be moving to CS4.1 and check me out, as to the fix for SurCode in it.

                       

                      An encoder will be needed somewhere. I know that there are others, besides the SurCode, that are available. I just do not know of any others, that are plug-ins for PrPro. The ones that I know are stand-alones, rather like my SurCode DTS encoder.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Bill,

                         

                        What are you referring to:

                         

                        I think that the SurCode plug-in will work, as is, in CS4.1. There was a problem with earlier CS4 versions, but I believe that CS4.1 has addressed and fixed these issues

                         

                        I have never had a problem with Surcode in CS3, CS4 4.0, 4.01 or 4.1. I would be interested to know what kind of problems you are referring to.

                        • 9. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Harm,

                           

                          Early on with CS4, there was an issue with the SurCode plug-in. My memory is not good enough to recall at what point it was addressed and fixed. Wil Renczes addressed this in a post, about the time of the release of CS4. His comment was that it was a known issue, and would soon be addressed. My assumption is that it has. Can you confirm, as I believe that you have both CS4.1 and the Minnetonka SurCode DD 5.1 SS plug-in?

                           

                          At about the same time, a problem with the SmartSound QuickTracks plug-in and CS4, was also noted. In that case, the fix is not yet available. SmartSound has been working on it, but the Adobe SDK for CS4.1 is not yet available to them. This might also be fixed soon, but when will still be the question.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Bill,

                             

                            I have 4.1 and the Surcode plug-in and have not yet experienced any problems. It just works for me.

                            • 11. Re: Pseudo 5.1 mix from Stereo plug-in?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Harm,

                               

                              Thank you. Looks like my info was correct, and whatever the problem was, in early versions of CS4, have been fixed, as Wil indicated they would be.

                               

                              Appreciated,

                               

                              Hunt