22 Replies Latest reply on Aug 22, 2009 11:44 AM by the_wine_snob

    PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes

    Clive60

      I am running PE7(And photshop elements) in Win XP with 3GHZ Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2 memory. The scratch area is about 100GB. I have about 7 hours of video files split into scenes (Using HDVSplit) and projects take an enormous time (10-15 minutes or so) to load. I have about 20 different project files on the PC.  

       

      1) How can I speed up the loading of projects (The catelogue is contrastingly immediately loaded by Photoshop elements)

       

      2) I suspect that each time I am running PE7 its looking for all available media files - can I restrict where the programme is looking ? 

       

      2) I need to know how to delete projects that I no- longer need

       

      Any Help Welcome

       

      Clive

       

       

      (I also find that SOMETIMES if I load all 7hours of video onto the timeline the PC runs out of memory and Freezes.) 

        • 1. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Clive,

           

          Welcome to the forum.

           

          Project load time is predicated on three things:

           

          1.) Project size - yours is huge

           

          2.) System speed - depending on your HDD (I/O sub-system) yours may be marginal. RAM might help a bit, but it is much more associated with the number, speed and allocation of the HDD's.

           

          3.) Where and how the files are stored, and then accessed from

           

          How many HDD's does your system have? What are their sizes, speed, controller type, free space (saw 100GB for one), and how are they allocated? If you only have one HDD, then both the load times, and possibly the crashes could be tied to that.

           

          Now, for the Organizer, I will have to let others address that, as I seldom use it, and do not even have PSE.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
            Clive60 Level 1

            Wine Snob thanks for your quick response -

             

            Is there a log file which I can add to the forum so that you can see exactly what is running where as it would save lots of writing.

             

            In Brief I have 2 hard drives the C drive with the programme on it and another 500GB drive with the video files on it (69GB of them!) with 100GB of free space. All the drives are 7200RPM.

             

            Tell me where the log file is and I will arttach it.

             

            Clive

            • 3. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              Also, it sounds like you're using hi-def video.

               

              If so, tell us what kind of camcorder the video came from and which project settings you're using in Premiere Elements. It might also help to know how fast your processor is and how much RAM you have.

              • 4. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                For the HDD info, probably the easiest would be to do a screen-cap of the Control Panel>System>Hardware>Device Manager, with your HDD's expanded. Personally, I'd take that into Photoshop and add the details on allocation. By that I mean something like this:

                 

                C:\ 320GB 7200RPM SATA II w/ OS and program files only, plus Windows Virtual Memory (Page File) static at 4GB size, 200GB free.

                D:\ 500GB 7200RPM SATA II w/ media, Project and all Scratch Disks, 300GB free.

                 

                If you go the screen-cap route, just do a JPG of that with annotations and use the little "camera" icon in the middle-lower row of the forum editing screen's Toolbar. If you do a text file, you can Attach it via the Attach Files dialog at the bottom-left of the editing screen. Just be advised that anything attached there will go into gueue for some time - maybe hours, maybe days.

                 

                I do not know of any log file, where all of the HDD info would be readily available. Some hardware utilities would be able to generate much of the data, but the allocation part would still need to be added by hand.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                  Clive60 Level 1

                  Hi

                   

                  Thanks for the help so far. All my hard drives are SATA II 7200 Rpm Myy WinXP is on C drive, and all the video files are on K drive with 100GB free space. The attached DXdiag file contains all sorts of other info about drivers graphics card etc. It can be read in notepad.

                   

                  Clive

                  • 6. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                    Clive60 Level 1

                    The file did not attach so I will try again.

                     

                    Clive

                    • 7. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Clive,

                       

                      Got it.

                       

                      I see a couple of things:

                       

                      C:\ is FAT-32 and with only 49GB free. What is the connection type, SATA II?

                      D:\ Looking good. What is the connection type, SATA II?

                      E:\ FAT-32 but with free space. What is the connection type, SATA II?

                      F:\ DVD

                      J:\ is this a small external, or thumbdrive?

                      K:\ Looking good - is this an external? If so, what is the connection type, like USB 2.0, FW-400, FW-800 or eSATA

                       

                      Also, give us some idea about how each drive is used, and what is contained on each. Things like C:\ OS, programs and Page File; D:\ media; E:\ Projects and Scratch Disks.

                       

                      The answers to these questions can have an impact on what to think about doing next.

                       

                      Good luck, and thanks for the info,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                        As Hunt notes, a couple of these hard drives at configured as FAT32. FAT32 drives have a file size limit that can choke any major video editing process.

                         

                        I highly recommend you convert those files to NTFS as your first step.

                        • 9. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          The limit on the file size with FAT-32 is 4GB. This is a problem for NLE files, and also for the Page File in Windows Virtual Memory. They are also slower.

                           

                          If one does Convert, please see this ARTICLE from the CS4 forum first. NTSF will both speed things up a bit, and will also allow for unlimited file size. Do read that article first, as there are a few steps, along with the MS Help info. Get your complete and correct Volume Label first, as you will need it later in the process.

                           

                          Good luck,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                            Clive60 Level 1

                            Thanks for your reply

                             

                            Am working on HD video from Cannon HV20E HD Pal) camera

                             

                            All the disks 7200 RPM are internal and SATA II. 

                             

                            DISK1 (380 GB)

                            C:\ OS Win XP - is FAT-32 and with only 49GB free.

                            D:\ Some processed video files (from Cyberlink for DVD).    

                            E:\ Disk Images - no video or photo files

                            F:\ DVD

                             

                            DISK 2 (500GB total)

                            J:\ Very small spare primary partition 

                            K:\ Contains all project video files and scratch area for all processes 

                             

                            Clive

                            • 11. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                              Particularly since you're working with HDV files, you're going to need lots more free hard drive space than you have, Clive. And it's going to need to be formatted as NTFS, not FAT32.

                               

                              In fact, I'm very concerned that your C drive is FAT32! Windows XP is designed to run on an NTFS formatted drive, and the fact that you're running on a FAT32 drive could be at the root cause of a lot of problems you may be experiencing.

                              • 12. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                I agree with Steve. The first thing that I would do would be to Convert your C:\ to NTSF. With the installation of XP, I am surprised that the OS install did not do this originally. See this ARTICLE for instructions on Converting an existing FAT-32 to NTSF. Next, clean off much that is likely on C:\, by moving it to maybe your external.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                  Clive60 Level 1

                                  Dear Hunt and Steve

                                   

                                  It is been FAT for ages (since win XP came out on another machine!) but will

                                  convert to NTSC to see what happens it a practically bare disk as far as

                                  software is concerned.

                                   

                                  A related question is I have far too many old project files - how do I

                                  delete old projects that I do not need any more (Still need video files.) If

                                  I delete the PROJECT or *.prel files in windows they find their way back!

                                   

                                  Thanks Clive

                                  • 14. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Clive,

                                     

                                    A related question is I have far too many old project files - how do I delete old projects that I do not need any more (Still need video files.) If I delete the PROJECT or *.prel files in windows they find their way back!

                                     

                                    First, the Project files (.PREL for PrE) are qute small. If you did wish to move them to another location, say an external, then Archiver (Project Manager in PrPro) would be the way to do this. However, as you state that you will want to reuse the AV Assets, I would suggest a two-staged approach, and it will involve some large external HDD's. Use Archiver to get the Projects "gathered up," with all of their Assets. Place these "archived" Projects, with their Assets onto an external. This will allow you to go back and work on them at a later date, with all necessary files.

                                     

                                    Next, and on another external, I would Move all Assets to it. This will be your "library." Only copy over the Assets that you will need on a current Project, keeping the originals safe on the external. I use a NAS (Network Attached Storage) unit for this. This will free up much of your HDD real estate, until you start copying the Assets back to your current Project, but you will likely NOT use all of them, so you do benefit from the cleared space.

                                     

                                    Now to the last part of your above statement. If you Delete a .PREL from your system, and clean out the Recycle Bin, they cannot find their way back. They are gone, unless you can recover them from the HDD with special utilities. It is likely that you are seening things like the AutoSave versions, or Save_As version, that you did not realize that you had missed.

                                     

                                    Some Media Cache files, like CFA's (Conformed Audio files) and PEK's (Waveform Display files) WILL be regenerated, if one Opens a Project file, but Project files cannot be regenerated. Something else is happening. Here is an ARTICLE on .PREL/.PRPROJ (PrPro's) Project files, that might explain what they are a bit more.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                      Clive60 Level 1

                                      After some trepidation converted the drive to NTFS - PE7 appears to be more stable BUT it still takes the same long time to load the project files.

                                       

                                      (I have noticed some very large MACC cache folders)

                                       

                                      Clive

                                      • 16. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Clive,

                                         

                                        Most of the large cache files are going to be the CFA (Conformed Audio), and Render files. The first are necessary for PrE to edit the Audio, and will be regenerated upon start. Note that this can take a while and slow loading down even more, until the Conformins is done. The Render files are used for preview and are not necessary for editing, only smooth playback of Transitions, non DV-AVI Type II files, and the like. They can be deleted, as they will be regenerated, should you hit Enter.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                          Clive60 Level 1

                                          Hiunt

                                           

                                           

                                          You said

                                          "Note that this can take a while and slow loading down even more, until the Conformins is done".

                                           

                                          This is the knub of the problem and the reason I want to do some spring cleaning.  When I started using PE7 I made alot of really bad projects and I want to clear them and any associate cache files away. There seems to be no obvious way to do this in the menues. I do not want to delete files randomly for fear of loosing something valuable.

                                          So say I have a project file Rubbish.prel -  How can I remove it and all associated cache files so that next time PE7 loads it does not waste time reconstituting what I do not need.

                                           

                                          Thanks again for your help

                                           

                                           

                                          Clive

                                          • 18. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Clive,

                                             

                                            Much will depend on how you have set up your filing system.

                                             

                                            In my case, I create a folder structure, Rubbish Project, on my E:\ drive on the workstation, or my E:\ drive on my laptop, or on an external, if I am transporting the Project between the two computers. Then, under that, I have sub-folders: Video, Still, Music, SFX, Audio, etc., and also place all of my Scratch Disks under it. When I go to author the Project to DVD, I will put my Encore Project within this same file structure, and all of its Media Cache files will be there too.

                                             

                                            When done, I can choose to use the Archiver (PrE), or Project Manager (PrPro) to make an appropriate backup of Rubbish Project, and then just remove Rubbish Project from E:\, or, if I'll never need to go to Rubbish Project, just do the delete. Obviously, if I have put everything within the Rubbish Project root folder, all goes away. Note: with the exception of Captured Video (I retain all tapes), every other Asset is a copy, with the originals stored separately, so I do not have to worry about lossing any Audio, stills, etc., as they were but copies.

                                             

                                            My method is not the most efficient, for editing, but it makes organization of Projects much easier. By this, I mean that if one put all Scratch Disks onto another physical HDD, things might run a tad bit faster, but then you have two locations where parts of Rubbish Project are stored.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                              Clive60 Level 1

                                              EXAMPLE OF PROJECT FILES I WANT TO DELETE

                                               

                                              Hunt many thanks for your help so far.

                                               

                                              Here is an example of the huge size of files relating to unwanted projects that I wish to remove (I think its slowing down the loading process).  I archived this project and since I had dropped most of the clips it was only 200MB in size - see how that compares with 19GB of cache files! See the uploaded file for details -there are an enormous number of clips I know thats intentional on my part used HDV split to split scenes on my original video.

                                               

                                               

                                              IF I just delete all these files using Windows XP will that be the end of it ?

                                               

                                               

                                              There is a concern that there might also be log files on C drive where the programme is  that might upset PE7 when I restart and it cannot find the deleted files.

                                               

                                              OVERVIEW OF FILES

                                               

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements - LOG FILES

                                               

                                              1/08/2009  17:36               116 My Project China 5 July.log

                                              17/07/2009  20:25         9,478,819 My Project China 5 July.prel

                                                            26 File(s)  1,974,612,679 bytes

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements\Adobe Premiere Elements AUTO SAVE

                                              05/07/2009  22:28         8,902,188 My Project China 5 July-1.prel

                                              05/07/2009  22:49         9,462,822 My Project China 5 July-2.prel

                                              05/07/2009  23:09         9,462,822 My Project China 5 July-3.prel

                                              05/07/2009  21:48         7,054,684 My Project China 5 July-4.prel

                                              05/07/2009  22:08         8,902,188 My Project China 5 July-5.prel

                                                            18 File(s)    179,068,929 bytes

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements\Adobe Premiere Elements PREVIEW FILES

                                              21/08/2009  17:29    <DIR>          My Project China 5 July.PRV

                                                             0 File(s)              0 bytes

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements\ENCODED FILES

                                               

                                              21/08/2009  17:43    <DIR>          My Project China 5 July.prel

                                               

                                                             0 File(s)              0 bytes

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements\STOP MOTION CAPTURE

                                               

                                              27/06/2009  18:13    <DIR>          China

                                              04/07/2009  21:29    <DIR>          China 2009

                                              05/07/2009  17:36    <DIR>          China All

                                              05/07/2009  14:18    <DIR>          China inc 2 2009

                                                             0 File(s)              0 bytes

                                               

                                              Directory of K:\elements\MEDIA CACHE FILES (I would like to delete this!)

                                               

                                              21/08/2009  17:29    <DIR>          My Project China 5 July.MACC

                                              3880 File(s) 19,130,259,732 bytes

                                              • 20. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                If you are done with China 05 July, and have Archived it, you can delete all of these, with Windows Explorer.

                                                 

                                                All "linking" to Assets will be from the .PREL file, and nothing in any other folder (unless you have some duplicate of the .PREL elsewhere) will want to see those Assets.

                                                 

                                                The one possible exception might be the Organizer. To be honest, I do not use any form of that sub-app., so do not know about what it might want. Still, I would say that the "worst" that could happen is if you used Organizer, it would tell you that the Asset was now missing. Maybe Steve, or AT Romero can chime-in on Organizer, and give you definitive comments on it. They both know it well, and I know nothing of it, as I use other programs for all of the Asset management. I think that you might get something like a thumbnail with maybe a red slash through it, or similar - just do not know for sure.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                                  Clive60 Level 1

                                                  Hunt

                                                   

                                                  Yes its the ORGANISER application that I am concerned with. So I look forward to any other comments from others.

                                                   

                                                  Clive

                                                   

                                                  PS it seems to be great at generating files but there is no clear way of spring cleaning.

                                                  • 22. Re: PE7 Takes a long time to load projects and sometimes crashes
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    Yes its the ORGANISER application that I am concerned with.

                                                     

                                                    Wish that I could help you there, but I am the ultimate "newbie" with regards to Organizer.

                                                     

                                                    I'll be reading the replies from Steve, and others, as I WILL learn something too.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt