32 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2009 10:34 AM by Chet Hedden

    How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3

    pcford Level 1

      I will be doing a video of a live event and burning it to DVD. The event was 2:45 long...maybe 45 minutes will be tossed because of irrelevance. That still leaves a long project...my machine is cranky when handling the whole timeline. Using a pc 2.8 with two gigs ram.

       

      Make separate sequences? Sorry is this is fundamental but could not find anything here or in my book.

       

      Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          With an underpowered system, it makes sense to break it up into multiple sub-projects. Finish the first one, then continue with the second and so on. Ultlimately, combine these sub-projects into one for export or get better hardware.

          • 2. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            I always edit in Sequences. These are like "Chapters," however I do not do events, so there could be some considerations there. As I end up with these separate Sequences, I just Import them into Encore, and never use Chapter Markers, unless someone needs the ability to Search a DVD for something in particular. Usually do a Chapter Playlist for those particular instances.

             

            Now, two things to look into:

             

            Filling the RAM out might help some.

             

            Depending on your HDD situation now, I'd look into a minimum of three internals. Your Project will love you, your computer will love you and you'll love PrPro.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              What kind of media are you using for the project?

              • 4. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                pcford Level 1

                Answers....not doing HD right now...my machine is not all that wheezy. It is XP so 2 gigs or so is the limit as I understand it...

                 

                I have 4 internal hard drives and two externals. One is a normal usb harddrive. The other is a harddrive docking station...just buy a hard drive and plop in the station...have three hard drives to fit in the station....yes I don't like to throw stuff out.

                 

                Will be doing an upgrade when I get paid for my last two projects. (heh, heh)

                 

                I presumed that separate sequences would be the way to go...have not edited that way...I guess I would like to bring all sequences together at the end so that I could get one avi...

                 

                Media...4x3 dv footage...I export to avi then to dvd.

                 

                Thanks guys.

                • 5. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  Working with DV, your system should be more than adequate for this project in one go.  If it's giving you fits, something's not right.

                  • 6. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    It is XP so 2 gigs or so is the limit as I understand it...

                     

                    Well, you can use up to ~3GB. Most MoBo's go in 1 - 2 or 4GB configs. I'd go with the 4GB, though you are correct, you will not get the full benefit of all 4GB, but will still get some and RAM is dirt cheap. Make sure everything matches 100%.

                     

                    One is a normal usb harddrive

                    Use this for archival storage only. Maybe clean up those internals a bit with this one.

                     

                    The other is a harddrive docking station...just buy a hard drive and plop in the station...have three hard drives to fit in the station.

                     

                    What is the connection type, eSATA? The exact connection may make a world of difference. You're cool, if it is eSATA.

                     

                    With SD material, you should be good to go. I believe that Jim Simon did a lot of SD editing on a rig not too dissimilar to yours. I think he had a more robust I/O sub-system (more large, fast HDD's), but think that he got by with 1GB of RAM for sometimes, with no complaints. Maybe he can comment on his old computer, and tell you if he feels that the additional RAM would be worth the $, though dirt-cheap. He also does more "event" work, so might have some good insight into how best to handle things there. For me, the multiple Sequences just works perfectly in all respects.

                     

                    Can you fit in another HDD internally?

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      I still occasionally edit on a Laptop with one internal and one USB external.  It's not ideal, nor as snappy as my new i7 under Windows 7 64 bit, bit it does work acceptably for DV.

                      • 8. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Jim,

                         

                        Your experiences have been better than mine, in this respect.

                         

                        Thanks for reporting,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                          Chet Hedden Level 1

                          Harm, how can one combine the sub-projects? I have used "select all," "copy," and "paste" to get one project into another, but after saving the merged project, the sound disappears from the audio track. So I tried importing one project into another, then dragging the sequence for the project to the new timeline, but doing that removes all the edit points from the sub-project and combines all tracks into one. Furthermore, the imported sequence will not then export to avi or Encore, because Premiere locks up (stops responding) when it attempts to re-render for export. Consequently, the only way to view the merged project is in Premiere!

                          • 10. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                            The Copy/Paste often does loose the Audio. This has been an issue for several versions.

                             

                            The Importation of one Project into another is the right way to do it. However, the problems that you are having are not common ones. Just a guess, something else is going on, especially with the failure to Export. I have never seen that issue. That would be worth addressing to find the cause. Could be system, or the Project setup, or maybe some of the Assets used in either the Imported Project(s), or the target Project. With all of the complete info, someone can likely help you solve that, as it is not the "way it should work."

                             

                            Good luck,

                             

                            Hunt

                            • 11. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              OK, let me try to explain it.

                               

                              I start out with around 30 source tapes of one hour each. That is a large project, right? I need to edit that into one DVD with a maximum duration of 1:20 hours so it fits on a single DVD.

                               

                              First I go spotting, what do I need from each tape. Then I decide on what parts do I need in the different parts of my movie. What do I need for the first chapter, what for the second chapter and so on. (The difficult part is the intro and outro, because that will be a summation of the whole movie, so leave that for last).

                               

                              I now start my first project for the chapter one part, capture, edit and finish by exporting to an AVI file, Next I start a new project for the chapter two part, capture, edit and export likewise. Then chapter three etcetera. In the end I have maybe 18 projects that were all exported to separate AVI files. I then create my final project and only import the previously exported 18 AVI files and put them on the timeline, which gives me a long 1:20 hour timeline ready for export to Encore.

                               

                              Hang on, there is still the intro and outro to do. By now, you will know exactly which scenes you need for both the intro and outro, so you do not need to capture much, both intro and outro projects will be limited in size. Once you have finished these and exported to AVI, insert these into the final project at the start and end of your 18 AVI's you already have in the final project.

                               

                              That in essence is how you break up your projects into manageable chunks. Hope this helps.

                              • 12. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                Chet Hedden Level 1

                                But after you import your 18 AVI files into your master project, you cannot edit this new 1:20 hour project as a whole because you have lost your edit points, including your individual video and audio tracks, right? Is there any advantage to exporting each chapter to AVI before importing into your master timeline, as opposed to just importing the sub-project directly into your master project?

                                • 13. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  The advantage is a far lesser load on an unpowered system and the only way to solve instabilities, errors, hangs etc. without getting new hardware.

                                  • 14. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                    Chet Hedden Level 1

                                    Is there no way to insert one project into another project, or combining two sub-projects into a third, without losing the edits (cuts, effects, and individual tracks) from the project(s) being inserted?

                                    • 15. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Yes, like you have done:

                                       

                                      So I tried importing one project into another, then dragging the sequence for the project to the new timeline, but doing that removes all the edit points from the sub-project and combines all tracks into one

                                       

                                      but you did not double click the nested sequences to open the original with all the original edit points. You may need to read a bit more about nesting sequences. However, that completely defeats the intention of the OP, who tried to edit a project so large for his underpowered PC, that is caused instabilities and all kinds of hangs and errors. Whether you have the same problem, I do not know.

                                      • 16. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                        Chet Hedden Level 1

                                        Harm,

                                         

                                        My system is pretty powerful -- quad core, multiple TBs of storage with program, projects, captures, and scratch spread over different drives. My projects are long, the current one about 1hour 18 minutes, so the problems I have had not understanding how to combine the separate parts has caused me untold grief. You are absolutely right about exporting each piece to AVI and then importing into a new project to get around system limitations.

                                         

                                        But the real breakthrough for me -- double-clicking the sequence to restore the source project's tracks and edits after importing one project into another and after dragging the imported sequence to the timeline was so simple it is madening, and for that I cannot thank you enough. You have saved me untold grief! Double-clicking the (compiled) sequence as it sits on the timeline restores all the tracks, cuts, effects, etc.

                                         

                                        As you suggested, I did re-read the section on nested sequences (didn't realize that what I was doing was called "nesting" because they are joined, not nested). A single line burried near the bottom of page 245 in the hard copy manual was the clue, completely missed on previous readings. (I only got it this time because you mentioned double-clicking the sequence in your last post.)

                                         

                                        Over the past months I have struggled with the complex and confusing Adobe website and opened 4 or 5 support cases, all of which were closed or "withdrawn" by Adobe without offering any answer. I have authorize payment for support and spent hours on the phone to India pursuing this particular issue, only to be dropped without any reply or charges.

                                         

                                        I am a technical communicator (Master of Science in TC from University of Washington 1991 and Ph.D. in educational technology 1998), so I am baffled by Adobe's incompetence in communicating this simple and very basic procedure, which is essential to editing any sort of complex project. I found this thread accidentally after doing a Google search, which I cannot now re-trace. The search landed me on the forum thread with the current heading and I found your comment about combining multiple "chapters."

                                         

                                        Well, thank you again for clearing this up! I'm in editing heaven again.

                                        • 17. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Glad to have been of help. Happy editing.

                                          • 18. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Over the past months I have struggled with the complex and confusing Adobe website and opened 4 or 5 support cases, all of which were closed or "withdrawn" by Adobe without offering any answer. I have authorize payment for support and spent hours on the phone to India pursuing this particular issue, only to be dropped without any reply or charges.

                                             

                                            Once upon a time, Adobe TS was great - near the top of all major software companies. That appears to no longer be the case.

                                             

                                            I feel that MOST problems can be handled better in this forum. It's not until one gets to some very odd installation, or licensing issues, that the users here fall back, for lack of experience, or info, on such issues. For setup, editing, Export and the like, the users here are way ahead of Adobe TS - and cheaper!

                                             

                                            I always recommend that one with problems, or questions, come here first, and only after all users chime-in with "time to contact Adobe TS," should the do that.

                                             

                                            Glad that Harm gave you the keys to the city, and got you to editing, He's a "keeper!"

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                              Chet Hedden Level 1

                                              Thank, Hunt, I will certainly heed that advice should the need arise in the future.

                                              • 20. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                pcford Level 1

                                                I'm the original poster. It appears that I have things sorted out. A few things which might be interesting to others. My machine has a intel 2.8 cpu and two gigs of ram. When trying to edit the entire length of the timeline of 2:45, it was slow to render. Likely this is related to ram and cpu speed. There were no other unexpected problems except general sloth in processing the entire length of the video.

                                                 

                                                To review...I did a live event which contained 2:45 of footage. It was a two camera shoot with the signals sent to a swich and that output sent to a deck and to two lcd projectors which back projected the images on large screens to each side of the stage. Sooooo, there was a master tape of the output of the deck and there was tape in both cameras.

                                                 

                                                I went through the master tape and did clip markers on the instances which needed to be "fixed." I then divided timeline into thee sequences and copied the sections to the sequences. In the future I likely would just capture three clips and distribute them to sequences.

                                                 

                                                This workflow is a bit different from common cutting as most of the footage from the master tape is retained. Only the director's mistakes are changed...either by simply cutting and deleting areas which were not needed or by replacing the master tape footage with footage from the appropriate camera.

                                                 

                                                Understanding sequences is critical the project and I thank those that helped me get it!

                                                 

                                                Finally, I have to agree that Adobe support which used to be excellent, has devolved into the miserable standard of most software companies.

                                                 

                                                Thanks again guys!!

                                                • 21. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                  Actually, I was wondering where you were? This grew into a very informative thread I think and from some reactions I gather I was not the only one to think so. Glad to have been of help and happy editing

                                                  • 22. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                    it was slow to render.

                                                     

                                                    This is often caused by an inadequate I.O sub-system, i.e. your HDD's, their speed, controller type and how they are allocated. Harm has done a great article on how best to set up your I/O sub-system for NLE work. That would be a good place to start.

                                                     

                                                    Good luck,

                                                     

                                                    Hunt

                                                    • 23. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                      pcford Level 1

                                                      the_wine_snob wrote:

                                                       

                                                      it was slow to render.

                                                       

                                                      This is often caused by an inadequate I.O sub-system, i.e. your HDD's, their speed, controller type and how they are allocated. Harm has done a great article on how best to set up your I/O sub-system for NLE work. That would be a good place to start.

                                                       

                                                      Good luck,

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                       

                                                      Got a location for that?....thanks.

                                                      • 24. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                        I happen to have a LINK. This is one of three excellent articles on setting up an NLE machine and 64-bit OS.

                                                         

                                                        Good luck,

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 25. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                          pcford Level 1

                                                          Great! A new machine is in my future...

                                                           

                                                          Thank you sir!

                                                          • 26. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                            Chet Hedden Level 1

                                                            Amazing set of optimization rules that takes a bit of expertise to fully follow. I expect to stick with XP 32-bit for now. I only have 4.25TBs of internal, non-RAID, SATA storage, but do frequent backups using Retrospect, which works seamlessly with my external 6TB Drobo (Data Robotics). The Drobo houses four 1.5TB drives and handles all data protection using a parity RAID-like proprietary approach. Subtracting the overhead needed for data protection, it still gives me 4TBs of backup storage. I love it. I've already had 3 drive failures out of the 6 I've installed. The only drawback is it takes about 5 minutes to boot the system with the Drobo active, so I leave it unplugged except when backing up. The Drobo handles everthing automatically.

                                                            • 27. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                              Chet,

                                                               

                                                              If you happen to have Seagate 1.5 TB 7200.11 disks in the Drobo, check the firmware version on those disks. I had 7 of those disks in my NAS and 5 of them failed in the first one or two months. Seagate replaced them with new disks that had the latest firmware and now the problem appears to have been solved. Just thought to let you know.

                                                              • 28. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                                Chet Hedden Level 1

                                                                Yes my Seagates failed right away too. As you know, Seagate has a great replacement method that costs $20 with overnight shipping and a box to return the defective one. Replacements are rebuilds, but the warranty is 5 years (from the original purchase date). The Drobo handles the problem by identifying the defective one and saving the data as needed. None of those drives had the questionable firmware, but failed anyway.

                                                                • 29. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                                  Chet Hedden Level 1

                                                                  Okay, guys, I'm stumped again. So I've come back for more expert advice.

                                                                   

                                                                  I now understand how to (a) import sub-projects into a master project, (b) drag the sub-project folders to the master timeline, and (c) double-click the timeline to open a sub-project. When I do the latter, a new sequence opens, and the sub-project's timeline is displayed with all tracks showing and the edit points intact. Sometimes, though, it doesn't work and, instead, a window opens that displays a video or audio frame in a new window. Why?

                                                                   

                                                                  Unfortunately when the sub-project/sequence does open, other parts of the master timeline are no longer visible. Additionally, edits made within the sub-project do not carry over when the master sequence/timeline is active. Why not?

                                                                   

                                                                  It does not seem possible to view more than one sub-project timeline at the same time in order to blend or transition one to another. For example, I want the opening music in sub-project/sequence #2 to play under the tail end of sub-project/sequenc #1, but both sub-projects need to be open to adjust the tracks that extend across the boundary between the two.

                                                                   

                                                                  So these are the issues:

                                                                   

                                                                  1 - Why does double-clicking on clips in a sub-project on the master timeline sometimes not open as a timeline showing all the tracks and edit points of the sub-project before it was imported, but instead simply open a window containing a video or audio frame?

                                                                   

                                                                  2 - Is there a way to display more than one sub-project/sequence at a time so that they can be edited as one?

                                                                   

                                                                  3 - Why don't the edits made in a sub-project when it is "opened" by double-clicking it in the master project timeline carry over into the master timeline. There is not much point in making changes in a sub-project if those changes are then not reflected in the master timeline.

                                                                  • 30. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                                    Chet Hedden Level 1

                                                                    Okay, let me put it this way. I have a project that consists of a main project and three sub-projects. When I want to edit the timeline (main project), I click twice on the section of the timeline that I want to expand to edit. Doing that opens a new sequence which is editable. After making changes and rendering and saving them, I return to the main timeline, where it is necessary to render again to incorporate the new changes. I can then close the new sequence, if I want to.

                                                                     

                                                                    However, if, before returning to the main sequence, the program crashes while the new timeline is still open, when I re-open the project, *everything* has disappeared except the new sequence (sub-project) that I was working on when CS3 crashed. If I was working on a 6-minute section of the overall 1 hour 15 minute project, only that 6-minute section remains. Everything else is gone.

                                                                     

                                                                    In this circumstance how can I restore the rest of the project (the main timeline). If there is no way to do that, and there has been no backup, it could mean that months or years of work are lost. Am I right? If not, how can one recover the rest of the project?

                                                                    • 31. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                      Chet,

                                                                       

                                                                      Restoring your project can best be done from an autosave project. But, your main problem which needs to be solved is why does the program crash and how to avoid that in the future.

                                                                       

                                                                      First, what do you mean by crash, just not responding, disappearing of PR, complete computer hang, BSOD?

                                                                       

                                                                      Second, how can you recover, just restarting PR, log off and log on, pressing the reboot button, power off, wait and power on?

                                                                       

                                                                      Third, can you post the info requested in the second part of the second link in this link: Some suggestions

                                                                      • 32. Re: How to Set Up for Very Long Project in Premiere Pro CS3
                                                                        Chet Hedden Level 1

                                                                        Harm,

                                                                         

                                                                        Thank you for the links to the hardware diagnostic tools, which I will need to download, install, and run before I can send screen shots.

                                                                         

                                                                        Meanwhile, I agree that my question was unclear. I'm sure my hardware is not optimal and could use some fine tuning, but I suspect this issue has more to do with the software than hardware. Though I still may not be using terms accurately or clearly, I should have asked something like the following:

                                                                         

                                                                        "When the main timeline inexplicably disappears and the program tells me there are no timelines present, but the project has just been saved and all assets (folders and files) are still present in the project window, and the file size displayed in the Windows directory still shows that the project has not lost any bits, how does one restore the timeline(s) in the Premiere interface to make them visible again?"

                                                                         

                                                                        I agree that the term "crash" is vague and probably misleading. Timelines disappeared two different times, but the circumstances were very different. Here is the way the two cases unfolded.

                                                                         

                                                                        Case #1:  I made some small edit (I've forgotten what) and saved the project. Then I made the mistake of double-clicking the ("expanded" -- my term) timeline I was working on, which was a timeline for a sub-project that had been imported into the main project, as discussed in previous posts. When I did that, a window opened showing an enlarged view of the clip I had just clicked on. That was not what I wanted (I had forgotten that I was already working in an "expanded" timeline), so I closed that window by clicking on the 'x' in the upper right corner. When I did that, the timelines ALL disappeared, as did the Program Monitor window, and when I tried to open them through the 'Window' menu, it said something like "no timelines present."

                                                                         

                                                                        Having saved the project just before this happened, I quit Premiere without saving, returned to the desktop, restarted Premiere and reloaded the project. I assumed the defective state of the interface, with the missing timelines, would not have been retained upon restarting the program because the last time I had saved the project, the timelines were all present, and I assumed that the previously saved interface would come back with the timelines present. But upon reloading, the timelines were still missing, so I could do nothing and so resorted to restoring a recent backup in order to continue to work on the project. Now I wonder if perhaps there is a way to simply tell Premiere to display the timelines, or something of that nature, when the timelines inexplicably disappear -- so that it would not have been necessary to revert to the backup.

                                                                         

                                                                        Case #2: This was more of what one might mean by a program "crash." I opened the project and added a few seconds of black leader to the beginning of the timeline. Saved that, then scrolled through to a spot where I started to make a slight adjustment to the volume of a sound clip. Bang. Then (paraphrasing), "We're sorry but PR has encountered an error and must shut down." Followed by (paraphrasing again), "Send error notification to MS, yes or no," etc. Back to desktop. Start up again. Now only the sub-project sequence I was working on appears. As before, the three other sequences (sub-timelines) are gone, even though, as in the previous case, I had saved the project with all timelines present just prior to the "crash."

                                                                         

                                                                        The missing sequences (or at least the elements of which they were composed) were not actually missing, just not showing up as timelines. The imported sequences, along with all the bits and pieces of which they are composed, still appeared in the project window, so it would seem as though there should be a way to make the main timeline reappear. Doing that should bring everything back. Perhaps it's a hardware issue, but I suspect a Premiere bug.