12 Replies Latest reply on Aug 21, 2009 8:39 AM by the_wine_snob

    How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?

    barrylaymond Level 1

      I have been using smartsounds from way back in Adobe Premier 6.0 when it was packaged with Adobe. This really has been the bees knees for adding sound.

       

      It has not been incorporated by Adobe in the CS versions and I have now tried Sonic Pro 5 with CS3 and found that although it recognizes clips within any project it falls down badly just when one needs it.  I mean that if one then assembles individual clips into a timeline and then save that timeline Sonic Pro does not find the timeline as it does not seem to be able to support the timeline format.

       

      I therefore have 3 problems:-

       

      1. How can one import a timeline into Sonic Pro so one can use the smartsound process?

       

      2. I have the Smartsound quick tracks for Adobe Premier 6.0 and Sonic Pro cannot recognize these fully so the features within Sonic Pro can't be used.  Is there a way round this?

       

      3. I own a library of copyright free music which is not part of the smartsound range.  Is there a way to use this music within Sonic Pro or will it only work with their tracks?

       

      Any information on Sonic Pro and Smartsounds is welcome.

        • 1. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
          Blue_Devil1 Level 2

          Here's a link to the Sonic forum, which may help.

          http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/72/855343

           

          I also called their help line and the same guy answered some of my questions about installation.

           

          John Rich

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            I'm getting the article proofed by SmartSound, as we speak. It should be up in a day or two.

             

            Until then, let me have a quick go at your particular questions:

             

            1. How can one import a timeline into Sonic Pro so one can use the smartsound process?


            SonicFire Pro is NOT a plug-in, like QuickTracks for Premiere is. As a stand-alone, you need to Export a "reference movie." If you're working in DV-AVI, then a DV-AVI export would possibly be the quickest way to do it, especially if you have Rendered it. I've experimented, and DV-AVI seems to come out on top, with regards to speed. I've tried decreasing the Frame Sizes (as the reference movie does not need to be full rez), and everything else was from a touch slower, to way, way slower.

             

            2. I have the Smartsound quick tracks for Adobe Premier 6.0 and Sonic Pro cannot recognize these fully so the features within Sonic Pro can't be used.  Is there a way round this?

             

            The only way that I can image this happening is because the database for SmartSound is not seeing these. In Tools, you can rebuild the database, but first I would choose Migrate to find those files. SonicFire Pro is not seeing them, and should. Migrate should find them and correct the database. If not, then we need to talk more about this with details, like which folders are set in both QuickTracks and in SonicFire Pro. Should work, and we can make it work.

             

            3. I own a library of copyright free music which is not part of the smartsound range.  Is there a way to use this music within Sonic Pro or will it only work with their tracks?


            Unfortunately, no. Only SmartSound files will work with SmartSound software. It's the same, the other way around - SmartSound's .SDS files cannot be used in Audition, SoundForge, et al.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
              barrylaymond Level 1

              John

               

              Thanks for the helpful link which has answered some other things I am sure to encounter.

               

              Barry

              • 4. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                barrylaymond Level 1

                Hi Hunt

                 

                As always you come up trumps with answers that crack problems encountered.

                 

                I will try out your suggestions and I am sure they will work.

                 

                I await your further info when cleared by SmartSounds

                 

                Regards

                 

                Barry

                • 5. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                  Blue_Devil1 Level 2

                  Barry,

                  If the idea is to create quicktrack the exact length of your Premiere timeline what I've done is:

                   

                  1,  Open both Sonic Fire Pro 5 and Premiere CS3.

                   

                  2.  In Premiere, select the sequence you want to create the music for and move the TLI to the end of the sequence    ENd.

                   

                  3.  Then left click on the blue numbers in the upper left of the Sequence window.  Then right click on the numbers and select COPY.

                   

                  4.  Then go to Sonic FP5 and in the Express track window, select your music.

                   

                  5.  Then in the "Length" box clear the number there and right click and paste the number from Premiere there.

                   

                  6.  THen click on Options and select Export Sound track.

                   

                  7.  You naturally select some file named audio in your overall project for the destination, and then go back to Premiere, and import the sound track into your open project and then drag the track down to your sequence.

                   

                  This way you don't have to create a "proxy track" to import into Sonic.

                  Just a thought.

                  John

                  • 6. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    John,

                     

                    The reason for the Proxy/Reference movie is so that you can apply the music creation power of SonicFire Pro (used with multi-layered Libraries only), while watching and listening to the edited movie. It is used as your cuesheet. Now, if one could "gang" the playback in PrPro to SonicFire Pro, so that they start, stop, rewind, etc. in sync, that would preclude the reference movie. Unfortunately, they cannot be ganged/synced.

                     

                    If one is just using SonicFire Pro, as one would use QuickTracks, all one would need would be the duration. With multiple Clips, requiring different music and different durations, this is most easily accomplished (for me), by setting the WAB (Work Area Bar) in PrPro to where I wish a certain cut to be used, and just resting the cursor on the WAB - read the Duration for it, and make note. Create as is required.

                     

                    However, with Mood Mapping, for instance, you'd need to be able to see and hear, exactly where you wish to go from the full orchestra to the Dialog Preset, and when to come out of it. Because SonicFire Pro can do so very much more than can QuickTracks, if one is just creating music on the Duration, they are missing so very much of the real power of the program and the multi-layer music.

                     

                    Ah, I can't wait until either SonicFire Pro is a plug-in, or gets a fully functioning Adobe DL. That DL doesn't even need full-rez - just a decent image and of course, the Timeline's Audio would need to come over too.

                     

                    As a sidenote on workflow, I feel that it's very important to complete the editing in PrPro, and get approval, before going to SonicFire Pro for the final scoring of the movie. This is the way that it's done in Hollywood, and with good reason. Yes, a composer and the rest of the scoring staff might be working on aspects of the music all along, but to do the final score, they need to know how the movie will be cut. If I am going to SonicFire Pro, the client knows ahead of time that any edits, after approval, will cost additional $'s. They also know that the finished score cannot be done, until the final cuts are approved. I may stick in some "proxy" music, and it might even be the music that will be used, just not in its final, scored version. With just the music from QuickTracks, it's a simple prospect to alter the Duration, or even the variation of that piece of music, as the edits change things. SonicFire Pro - not so simple.

                     

                    Last note: in Pinnacle (and maybe others), one can easily, and dynamically alter the SmartSound piece. The completed music Clips have a beginning, a middle and an end. In Pinnacle, if one just click-drags on the Tail of a SmartSound piece, the changes (up, or down) in the piece only affect the middle. In other NLE's, at least Premiere, if one does this, then the beginning, and middle are basically untouched, and the Duration changes are applied to only the end. Also, if one just click-drags to INCREASE the Duration over what was chosen, crashes often occur, and even if they do not, the result is not what would be wished for. In Pinnacle, the click-drag is very dynamic and the results ARE what one would hope for. Why the difference between NLE's has never been explained to me, but I would assume that there is a major difference in the way that Premiere and Pinnacle handle Audio. Since SmartSound just came out with a FCP edition, I'd be curious to see how it functions in that program. Minor quibble, but I'd still love to see the behavior that one experiences in Pinnacle brought to Premiere.

                     

                    If I only need a slight change in the Duration, I will use TimeStretch. So long as you're not making much of a change, that will work. For bigger changes, I just do the same cut, but with the new, correct Duration.

                     

                    Hunt

                     

                    PS I anticipate receiving the edited article about end-of-business today PDT.

                    • 7. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                      barrylaymond Level 1

                      John

                       

                      this is cool and provides a solution.

                       

                      My fix for this so far has simply been to:-

                            

                      • check the clip length in Premier CS3

                            

                      • Select Music required in Sonic Fire Pro 5

                            

                      • Stretch music timneline in Sonic Fire so it matches clip length

                            

                      • Then export sound track over to Premier CS3

                      Your method is a good way also and does seem a good way forward.  Many thanks.

                       

                      Barry

                      • 8. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                        Blue_Devil1 Level 2

                        I guess there are two kinds of people using Smartsounds.  The first, like me just want a background music track probably at low volume behind naration and don't want to invest the time into learning mood mapping, and other stuff that comes with SmartSounds.  Smartsounds does have numerous video tutorials about how to use these features, already.

                        The second group want to use all these features and probably already have the skills to do it.

                         

                          The one problem I've found with this system is that it is very repetitive and possibly mood mapping might cover this repetition up to some degree.  However, the repitition invites customer complaints.

                         

                        John Rich

                        • 9. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                          The one problem I've found with this system is that it is very repetitive and possibly mood mapping might cover this repetition up to some degree.  However, the repitition invites customer complaints.

                           

                          John,

                           

                          Good points. If one is doing just the low-Level background, the repetition seldom is noticable for me. If someone picks up on it, then I did not do a good job with the narration/dialog. Also, if one is concerned with the repetition, then the "variations" on each cut can come in handy. In QuickTracks, if one is using the same piece several times, it will even "suggest" the next variation in the list.

                           

                          Now, the point about Mood Mapping is a great one. The same cut can sound different all throughout, even in a very long piece. The variations are truely endless. I urge you to try it, and expect to fall in love with it. Though the multi-layer discs are more expensive, I find them so very powerful. Even with the lack of the 44KHz music on the more recent multi-layer discs, I still am sold on them. It does mean that I cannot use them for Q&D (quick & dirty) soundtracks in QuickTracks, but I can live with going to SonicFire Pro.

                           

                          Good comments and points well-made,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 11. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                            barrylaymond Level 1

                            Hi

                             

                            The link under does not work but I have read your article on the Adboe forum page which is I assume whast you were providing the link for.

                             

                            Great and helpful article.

                             

                            Regards

                             

                            Barry

                            • 12. Re: How can smartsounds and Sonic Pro 5 work in Premier Pro CS3?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Let's see if I can fix that LINK, and here is ONE to a discussion in PrE forum, that has some more info.

                               

                              Hope that both of these work - sorry,

                               

                              Hunt