36 Replies Latest reply on Nov 17, 2010 8:26 PM by M K B

    Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem

    SQFreak2 Level 1

      I've created about a ten-minute timeline that I'd really prefer not to toss out because a lot of work went into creating parts of it and getting the timing right with the music, etc. When I first open the project in Premiere Elements, everything seems okay - my timeline plays with all transitions and I can scroll around in the timeline. However, I appear to have done something where whenever I click and drag to try to move a track, the timeline goes insane. I get a circle with a line through it for a cursor and a blank tooltip window, whether I try to drag the track horizontally or vertically. After that, while the timeline will still play, the timeline itself gets all wonky in its display, almost as if the video isn't refreshing on it. (It's kind of like the timeline has crashed.) I attached a screenshot of what it looks like. Whenever I move my cursor to the edge of the timeline, the timeline scrolls in that direction.

       

      I'm running Premiere Elements 7 Educational Version on  a Core 2 Duo laptop with 3GB RAM, an Intel 965 graphics chip (latest Intel drivers are installed), and Vista Business 32-bit. The clips are from a standard DV cam (not HD), and there are some PNG format stills and MP3 sounds mixed in there as well. There are three active A/V tracks. I think that's all the relevant information, but ask me if you need more.

       

      Can anyone tell me what I've done and/or how to fix this?

        • 1. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Something is definitely wrong somewhere, sq. Your interface should not look like that!

           

          It looks like you may be using Vista. Have you got all of the updates for Vista SP2? Have you also ensured you have the latest version of Quicktime installed? And have you optimized Vista for video editing, per the FAQs to the right of this forum?

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415316?tstart=0

           

          You also want to go into Premiere Elements preferences (under the Edit menu) and turn off Timeline Scrolling.

           

          Finally, can you tell us more about these video files? What type of camcorder did they come from and how did you get them into your computer?

          • 2. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
            the_wine_snob Level 9
            I appear to have done something where whenever I click and drag to try to move a track, the timeline goes insane.

             

            Do you actually mean "move a track?" You cannot move a Track. They are fixed. You can add Tracks, move Clips to a Track and Delete Tracks, but you cannot "move" a Track.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
              SQFreak2 Level 1

              Have you got all of the updates for Vista SP2?

              As far as Windows Update is concerned.

               

              Have you also ensured you have the latest version of Quicktime installed?

              I have 7.6.2, which appears to be the latest on Apple's Website. I've been reluctant to update to iTunes 8.1 or whatever one it is that breaks compatibility with the Palm Pre, but that's more of a philosophical objection to Apple's policies than an actual need, so if you think it'll make a difference, I'll be happy to update.

               

              And have you optimized Vista for video editing, per the FAQs to the right of this forum?

              Pretty much. Aero and the Sidebar are off. It does not index anything even on the same physical disk where all of the relevant files are located. Just to test, I set Windows to give me the best performance, and it made no difference. Before buying Premiere Elements, I used a demo version of Premiere Pro, and that's what I had to do to get acceptable performance, so I just started doing it under Elements out of habit.

               

              You also want to go into Premiere Elements preferences (under the Edit menu) and turn off Timeline Scrolling.

              Done. I love that I've done this, as it's my preferred behavior, but it made no difference as to the problem at hand.

               

              Finally, can you tell us more about these video files? What type of
              camcorder did they come from and how did you get them into your
              computer?

              Sure. They're from a JVC GR-D250U, imported by Premiere Elements via FireWire. The FireWire card is an ExpressCard 34mm generic brand card. Each is about three minutes in length. (In case you couldn't tell by the previous screenshot, they're videos I took from the Eurovision Song Contest in Moscow. ) They're in the MS DV codec. They can be played by Windows Media Player and VLC with no problems. Is that what you needed?

               

              Do you actually mean "move a track?" You cannot move a Track. They are
              fixed. You can add Tracks, move Clips to a Track and Delete Tracks, but
              you cannot "move" a Track.

              Ah, yeah, let me clear that up - I'm trying to move a clip within a track or move a clip to a different track. That's what I mean by "horizontally" and "vertically" respectively.

               


              Along those lines, let me give a little more explanation of what's happening. See the attachment. In that screenshot, I'm trying to click and drag Israel.avi left by about a second. As soon as I start to drag, I get a "Not Available" cursor and a blank tooltip pops up (you can see this in the screenshot). From then on, whenever I move my cursor to the right of the screen with Premiere Elements visible, even if it's not over the timeline, even if Premiere Elements is not active, the timeline drags to the right - almost like the mouse button is still down. And if I move my cursor to the left, the same thing happens, except it scrolls to the left. Whenever it scrolls, it likes to pick up whatever image was there previously.

              • 4. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                sven-berlin

                Anything new regarding this issue? I am evaluating the trial version and have exactly the same problem as described here and in this post: I also use Vista (Home Premium) on an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ with 2 GB of RAM. My first trial project just contains about 1 minute and 30 seconds of SD material from a JVC Everio GZ-MS120 and a view titles.

                 

                When I work for a few minutes or use the vertical scroll bar of the timeline, afterwards the timeline goes crazy: When I move the mouse curser to its right border (e.g. over the vertical scroll bar) it scrolls to the right (without pressing any mouse button) and same on the left. The worst: It is no more possible to move clips or transitions -- any drag-n-drop operation is permitted showing the stopping restriction sign (circle with diagonal line). After a restart of the application it works again for a few minutes. This makes productive working impossible.

                 

                Any ideas?

                 

                Thanks and regards

                 

                  Sven

                • 5. Same Thing Here
                  el-emeno

                  Most of my footage is AVI DV from a Panasonic GS400 (that's a miniDV, SD camcorder). Anything else is stills from a Pentax DSLR. I'm editing on a fairly robust Dell running the latest service pack of WinXP. My clips get stuck in the same manner, and the locked selection happens with the tracks too making them scroll when the mouse cursor is moved to the edge of the window.

                   

                  This seems to be a pretty significant problem affecting a range of computers, OSes and camcorders. I don't buy that it's a hardware problem.

                   

                  If I use the resore workspace button under Window it might 'break it loose', but as per others' experience, any solution only works for a while. I would love to hear of a solution or service pack to fix this issue.

                  • 6. Re: Same Thing Here
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    OK, we've got some odd display and mouse behavior going on with several users.

                     

                    What are the video cards in this population? What driver versions are each using? Are these the very latest available?

                     

                    Next, do anybody have the MS InteliPoint mouse driver? If so, what version?

                     

                    Because of the odd nature, there has to be some common link here and I don't think we've explored all possible similarities. As the only thing common right now is PrE 7, that could be suspect - BUT most users of PrE 7 are not having these issues. Many have similar systems and are using similar Assets without an issue.

                     

                    Please post all of your details,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                      A possible solution, SQ.

                       

                      Try zooming in on your timeline by pressing the + key.

                       

                      I suffered a similar lock-up recently and I couldn't move my clips -- but when I zoomed into the timeline, I could move the clips again!

                      • 8. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                        Fran Guidry

                        I'm having the same (as nearly as I can tell) issue with XP SP3, an ATI video card, and a Logitech mouse.

                         

                        The Zoom in trick worked once but then the issue returned before I could get my Title inserted on the timeline.

                         

                        Fran

                        • 9. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Fran,

                           

                          Your experience is a vote against the MS InteliPoint driver.

                           

                          Please tell us about your ATI video driver. Is it the latest one?

                           

                          With your Logitec mouse, do you have their Set Point software installed?

                           

                          Please help us find something common to all instances.

                           

                          Thanks,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                            gombalku

                            I also use xp sp3 but not a DRIVER PROBLEMS WITH MY VIDEO

                            • 11. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                              sven-berlin Level 1

                              Hi Hunt,

                               

                              now it's weekend and I have the possibility to check the details of my system. Unfortunately we already know that it is not the IntelliPoint issue I have put that much confidence in -- I do have a Microsoft Mouse, but I do not have installed IntelliPoint and as we have read, others with a Logitech mouse do have the same problem. Nevertheless to me it still seems as it has to do something with the input devices.

                               

                              Here are some more details for my system (driver and driver version in parenthesis):

                              • Audio: SoundMAX integrated digital Audio (AnalogDevices, 5.10.1.4151, 05.10.2005)
                              • Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 6600 (NVIDIA, 7.15.11.6925, 11.12.2007)
                              • Mouse: Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 USB (Microsoft, 6.0.6001.18000, 21.06.2006)

                               

                              To all the others, having the same problem: Could you please post similar data? Hunt is right: If we want to get this solved we need to find something that our systems do have in common.

                              • 12. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Thank you for the info.

                                 

                                Well, it looks like mice can probably be ruled out, as we now have a logitec and an MS w/ InteliPoint.

                                 

                                Just as an aside, many users of PrPro have had some issues with display problems associated with nVidia cards and some recent drivers for those. Do not know what the underlying issues are, but about the time that Adobe announced a combined effort with nVidia for full CUDA support of some apps and nVidia cards, things seemed to go downhill - obviously just coincidence in timing. I've got nVidia cards in most machines and tons of Adobe applications and not one issue. I am one of the lucky ones I guess, or maybe my Quadro cards do not fall into the problem areas.

                                 

                                Good luck to everyone,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Clips and Display Problem
                                  SQFreak2 Level 1

                                  My computer has technically three mice, none of them Microsoft. I have the ThinkPad UltraNav Pointing Device (Synaptics driver 11/21/2007 v.9.1.3.6), and two (one integrated and one external Logitech LX3) HID-compliant mice (Microsoft driver 6/21/2006 v.6.0.6001.18000). There are some Lenovo-specific addons in the mouse control panel.

                                  In terms of display adapters, I've got a Mobile Intel 965 Express using an Intel driver dated 10/7/2008 v.7.15.10.1576 and a LogMeIn Mirror Driver using a LogMeIn driver dated 5/22/2006 v.7.1.542.0. (Note that I've disabled the LogMeIn Mirror driver to no avail.) I've tried both the most recent official Lenovo driver and the most recent official Intel driver and had no luck with either.

                                  My sound card is a SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio, driver by Analog Devices, dated 10/4/2007 v.6.10.1.5510.

                                   

                                  I've got a dual monitor setup if that's important, and the two monitors are at different resolutions.

                                   

                                  One more thing - Steve, zooming in or out had no effect. I still can't drag any clips in that timeline.

                                   

                                  In case there's some corruption or something else to track down, here are the project file in question and the log file associated therewith. I'd like to attach them, but I keep getting told that the content type of the attachment is not allowed.

                                   

                                  Message was edited by: SQFreak2

                                  • 14. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                    Fran Guidry Level 1

                                    Here are the details on my system:

                                     

                                    Core 2 Duo 6600

                                    2 GB of RAM

                                    XP SP3

                                    ATI Radeon HD 4650

                                    Logitech mouse using the HID compliant driver

                                    Attansic L1 Gigabit Enet Controller (motherboard)

                                     

                                    I experience this issue when I have multiple clips on the timeline and select more than one clip. At that point I get the "NO" sign (circle with angled bar) and blank tooltip when trying to move the multiple selection. If I select away then select a single clip still can't move that clip or any other. At that point I also begin experiencing the "automatic movement" when I position the cursor on the right border. The viewing point moves to the right on the timeline as long as I hold the mouse cursor on that right edge.

                                     

                                    Sometimes zooming in and out with the + and - keys frees things up, otherwise I have to terminate and restart PE7.

                                     

                                    OK, I just restarted PE7, movement is OK. I have four tracks on the timeline. Three of them have my video, one has a menu clip. My three clips have been split, so there are 6 individual clips. I can select two of them and move both. I can select three of them and move them all. But if I select 6 of them the lockup and other issues begin.

                                     

                                    Oh, and I just noticed that moving the mouse cursor to the left edge of the window scrolls the timeline back the other way.

                                     

                                    Fran

                                    • 15. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      Wow! I am not seeing a common element so far. Equipment seems across the board.

                                       

                                      Let's look at other elements in the display:

                                       

                                      What is Hardware Acceleration set to on each machine? Can you scale that back and get things to work? I'd try it totally OFF and then work upwards if that eliminates the problem, until it fritzes up again (technical computer term... ).

                                       

                                      What about OpenGL. What versions and setting are being used on the different machines?

                                       

                                      Got to be something common somewhere, besides PrE 7, since it works fine for so many others.

                                       

                                      Good luck to all, please keep the reports coming. The fix has got to be in the details, and we just have not found the right details yet.

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        This is just to recap, in case we’re forgetting something obvious:

                                         

                                        No one is running Vista with Aero, Sidebar, or Window Blinds. Correct?

                                         

                                        Video cards are across the board: nVidia, Intel and ATI, with different VidRAM, and everyone has the latest driver for each. Correct?

                                         

                                        Everyone is getting the same strange behavior with regards to moving Clips on the Timeline and everyone is getting both the red circle w/ diagonal for the pointer, plus the corrupted looking GUI. Correct?

                                         

                                        What version of QT Player does each person have? I think that it’s up to 7.6.3 now.

                                         

                                        I think that all of this has been ruled out, but wanted to restate it for someone coming in late to the discussion.

                                         

                                        Thanks and good luck to all,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                          SQFreak2 Level 1

                                          My display driver doesn't allow me to adjust the hardware acceleration settings.

                                          no_h_acc.png

                                          (Aero is on in that screenshot, but I always turn it off before launching PrEl and turning it off has no effect on the options available.)

                                           

                                          I'm running OpenGL Version 2.0, driver version 7.15.10.1576, 07-Oct-08. DirectX is 9.0c - December 2006, 10.0, shader model vs_4_0, ps_4_0. See the attached OpenGL Extension Viewer report for more details. How can I tell what options I'm using?

                                           

                                          I'm using QT 7.6.2, which is the latest according to Apple, but if you've got a link to 7.6.3, I'll definitely give it a shot.

                                          • 18. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            I'm using QT 7.6.2, which is the latest according to Apple, but if you've got a link to 7.6.3, I'll definitely give it a shot.

                                             

                                            That was probably a case of me misrembering the actual latest version. If the Apple site has 7.6.2, that is most likely the correct and latest one.

                                             

                                            Thanks for the info. Probably shoots a couple of theories down, but we'll wait for everyone to weigh-in.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                              sven-berlin Level 1

                                              Some strange thing with me: On the weekend I have worked for five hours on my PrE project and the problem did not occur once (though I had another crash which made me loose one hour of work). Last week the problem occured every few minutes.

                                               

                                              I still do not believe, that the problem is solved -- I just think, that some special constellation in the project is causing this error and as I have worked on another scene this weekend (but in the same project that caused the problem last week) the issue did not occur. Well, this is just a guess, but because of the different hardware platforms of the people reporting the problem, it looks like a bug in PrE to me.


                                              What has changed for me since last week:

                                              1. As said before, I have worked on another scene this weekend.
                                              2. The footage for the scene I have worked on this week has been shooten with a Sony HDR-C106E (SD MPEG2) instead of the JVC GZ-MS120 I have used before (but the JVC files are still in the project in another scene).
                                              3. I have disabled the Windows sidebar.
                                              4. I have disabled Windows Vista's file indexing for the user folder which contains the folder where my PrE-project and my media files are located.
                                              5. I have installed the latest Quick Time player -- last weekend I did not have Quick Time at all!

                                               

                                              BTW: Vista Aero is still enabled on my system -- have forgotten to try to deactivate it. I do not use Windows Blinds.

                                               

                                              Regarding my video driver: I do not know whether I use the latest version -- since I have the system setup (about 2 years ago) I haven't updated anything here manually. So what hasn't been installed in the context of automatic updates will still be on the old version.

                                               

                                              To prove the proposition of a simple software bug not related to any hardware/driver issues, it would be great if someone who did not encounter the problem until now could download the project provided by SQFreak2 and try whether he/she could reproduce the issue on his/her system.

                                               

                                              @SQFreak2: Maybe you can find out a scenario that makes the issue reproducable with your project as uploaded (like "click that track and move that transition and afterwards the problem occurs").

                                               

                                              If we would find a way to reproduce the problem on every PrE installation, I guess we could hand it over to the software support. I am working in software development and I know from my own experience, that it is (well in most cases) easy to fix a bug that is reproducable but nearly impossible to fix a bug that I have not seen on my own, because I cannot reproduce it on my development or test system...

                                              • 20. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Sven,

                                                 

                                                Thank you for posting your observations and your experiences.

                                                 

                                                What has changed for me since last week:

                                                1. As said before, I have worked on another scene this weekend.

                                                When you have a moment, and after you have done a Save (and probably done a Save_As too), can you work on the problem scene, just to test. I expect that it will fail in about the same way that it did before.

                                                 

                                                2. The footage for the scene I have worked on this week has been shooten with a Sony HDR-C106E (SD MPEG2) instead of the JVC GZ-MS120 I have used before (but the JVC files are still in the project in another scene).

                                                This is the footage that I hope you can test with.

                                                 

                                                4. I have disabled Windows Vista's file indexing for the user folder which contains the folder where my PrE-project and my media files are located.

                                                I would also recommend that you turn Windows Indexing OFF for all folders where your Project, your Scratch Disks and your media files are. Windows Indexing can lock files, especially larger ones, and ones that change often, and really hang up programs, that use them. I keep it OFF for all HDD's and all folders, but you can still use it for files that are NOT part of your PrE's work - at any level.

                                                 

                                                If we can isolate this behavior, we can then address it. Just from what you have experienced, it looks more like a problem with certain Assets. Because some of the others were having the same exact problem, but with dissimilar Assets, this makes it hard to isolate, as the Assets do not SEEM to have common elements - though below the surface, they might have those.

                                                 

                                                I had not seen the link to the .PREL yet, but will go upthread and get it. One limitation that I have is that I cannot open in PrE 7, as I only have PrE 4 and PrPro. Luckily, PrPro can open most .PREL files, so long as things like Themes and Instant Movie are NOT used. Maybe we can get someone else with PrE 7 to study the .PREL in its native program. This might really help here.

                                                 

                                                Again, thank you for your efforts and for reporting.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt

                                                • 21. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                  Regarding my video driver: I do not know whether I use the latest version -- since I have the system setup (about 2 years ago) I haven't updated anything here manually. So what hasn't been installed in the context of automatic updates will still be on the old version.

                                                   

                                                  Video drivers are fragile things. A simple OS update can break them in a heartbeat. They should be updated religiously, especially if something stops working correctly. I would go to the videocard's site and get the very latest one - they are often issued monthly, and sometimes even more often.

                                                   

                                                  Read all instructions carefully, as some require the user to remove the old driver, while some just overwrite the old driver with the new one. It changes by mfgr., and can also change by the driver version. Most videocard mfgr's. will give you instructions to follow with each driver release. Even if you updated just last month, read carefully, as these instructions CAN change by the version.

                                                   

                                                  If your computer is 2 years old, with no videocard updates, you are probably at least 24 drivers behind. Each OS update, hotfix and patch, can ruin your videocard's driver.

                                                   

                                                  Let us know if there are any changes, when you do update your videocard's driver.

                                                   

                                                  Good luck,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                    sven-berlin Level 1

                                                    Good morning every one!

                                                     

                                                    The bad news: As expected the problem does still occur. The good news: I was able to track it down to one clip in the timeline.

                                                     

                                                    To save others time, I will described what I have evaluated quite detailed in the following paragraphs...

                                                     

                                                    As it seemed to me that deactivating the Windows indexing service made the usage of PrE more stable I thought that maybe file locks would cause the trouble. So I verified this by opening the project in PrE, writing and executing a small Java application that puts an exclusive file lock on one of the files from the project and tried to move the according clip in the timeline. It worked without any problems and the known symptoms did not occur. So we can put aside the file locks.

                                                     

                                                    Afterwards I tried to reproduce the problem by playing around with the scene that caused problems last week. I tried by moving around the video clips and the problem did not occur. Then I remembered my statement I have made earlier, that the problems seemed to occur as I started to work with titles and music clips -- and bingo: I have three music clips in my "soundtrack" track and one of them seems to cause the whole trouble. After I have clicked on this specific music clip, the problem occurs and it is no longer possible to move anything in the timeline and the strange behaviour regarding the automatic scrolling when the cursor is at the left/right etch is activated.

                                                     

                                                    It was easily reproducable: Restart PrE, open my project, move a video clip to verify that moving clips works, click on the specific music clip and the problem occurs. I have tried this several times and each time the problem occured. When I clicked on one of my other two music clips everything was fine -- same for the video clips I tried. So in my case it seems to be this single clip.

                                                     

                                                    OK, what's specific regarding this clip: All my music files are placed on a share on my Windows home server (in contrast to the video footage which is located on the local HD). So I moved the "dangerous" music file to the local HD, changed the path to the file with a text editor directly in the PrE project file (which is a simple XML file) and started up PrE again. I verified that PrE takes the file from the local HD (server was down), but the problem did still occur. So it is not a network issue.

                                                     

                                                    The next specific thing is, that this music file is the only file in my project which is a .wma-file -- the others are .mp3-files. So I did three things:

                                                    1. At first I downloaded the project file provided by SQFreak2 in this thread and checked whether he is also using .wma-files. The result: He does not use them.
                                                    2. As the second thing I again changed my project file in the text editor: I changed the path of the music clip to some other .mp3-file. Afterwards I opened up PrE with that project file, used the playback to verify that the other music file is referenced by the clip instead of the original wma-file and then tried to move the clip -- again the symptoms occured.
                                                    3. As the last step I created a new project, added the "problematic" wma-file, placed it on the "soundtrack" track and afterwards tried to move it. The result: No problems at all.

                                                    So it neither seems to be a generic problem with wma-files nor does it seem to be a file-specific problem at all.

                                                     

                                                    Lets summarize the things from above: File locks do not cause any trouble. In my project a single audio clip seems to cause the problem. The problem seems to be caused by the clip and not the file referenced by the clip (no matter whether local or server based, wma or mp3, the problem occurs in every case).

                                                     

                                                    What I have learned? Well, I am not sure. But in the meanwhile I am quite sure, that it hasn't to do anything with hardware and drivers, but that we are dealing with a bug in PrE that occurs in specific project cirumstances.

                                                     

                                                    This morning I have got some additional ideas I would like to try to track the problem down (e.g. the problematic clip has a transition for a fade out in the end [when I did this I didn't knew, that a fade out could be easily achieved in the clip's properties] -- I will try to remove this one and look what will happen).

                                                     

                                                    P.S.: In one of my earlier posts I stated the assumption that the problem occurs as soon as I move the mouse cursor over the vertical scroll bar of the timeline -- but this is definitely not the case.

                                                    • 23. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                      Wow, that is a lot of work, and very well documented. Like a good detective, you have systematically ruled out much, some presumed, and some observed, but you have ruled out a lot of possibilities.

                                                       

                                                      It seems that you have narrowed your situation down to a particular music file on the Soundtrack Track - but not specific to its location on the system, or to the file format.

                                                       

                                                      I hope that you will be able to narrow it down more, to say that Transition, or perhaps to a particular number of files on that Track.

                                                       

                                                      As I read along, I thought you'd have found it with the server location (did not), or the .WMA (they can be problematic, but not the case). Your post read like Sherlock Holmes, with plot twists everywhere.

                                                       

                                                      Please keep us updated, and I greatly appreciate your work. If you can narrow it, just a bit more, it will be interesting to see if the others have the same issue and can exactly reproduce it, as you have. That would be wonderful. Also, it is looking more like a Bug in PrE. With the proper info, you should be able to file this with Adobe, so they can eliminate it from PrE8. If you can also find the exact order of things, then you and others can likely workaround it, until Adobe corrects it. It'll probably be a case of "if you have XXXX, don't do YYYY."

                                                       

                                                      Thank you very much,

                                                       

                                                      Hunt

                                                       

                                                      PS Here's the Feature Request/Bug Report link.

                                                      • 24. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                        el-emeno Level 1

                                                        My machine:

                                                        CPU: Core2 Duo @ 2.66GHz

                                                        RAM: 2GB

                                                        GPU: nVidia Quadro NVS 290 (latest driver)

                                                        Monitor: twin monitors @ 1680x1050

                                                        OS: WinXP SP3

                                                        Soundcard: SoundMAX integrated

                                                         

                                                        No Aero, Window Blinds, etc.

                                                         

                                                        The problem will most likely to happen when I try to move multiple clips at once. As soon as it happens once, the problem usually sticks, even if I try to only move one clip. However it's not purely predictable, and sometimes after the problem occurs, PrE continues to run fine.

                                                         

                                                        I appreciate all the work going into this thread -- if there's anything I can do on my end to help isolate the problem, please post it. Thanks!

                                                         

                                                        Should we each be submitting a bug report to Adobe?

                                                        • 25. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                          Should we each be submitting a bug report to Adobe?

                                                           

                                                          My suggestion would be to wait just a bit. To effectively submit a Bug report, one has to make sure that the exact problem can be replicated in all instances. That is part of the detective process.

                                                           

                                                          Adobe will need as much info, as is possible, so they can take the report into their lab and hopefully replicate everything in all instances. If they cannot, it will be for nothing, so the more info the better.

                                                           

                                                          When the testing is done here - then Bug reports should be submitted.

                                                           

                                                          Just my opinion, being a user, and not an Adobe employee,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                            sven-berlin Level 1

                                                            OK, I have got it -- at least for my problem. The following is reproducable on my system -- it would be great if someone could check it on his system too:

                                                            1. Create a new project (harddisk or flash camcorder, Widescreen 48 kHz).
                                                            2. Place a clip for an audio file (no matter what -- in my example I used a Windows Vista file located at C:\Windows\Media\chimes.wav) on the empty "soundtrack" track.
                                                            3. Drag and drop an audio transition (in German it is called "Konstante Leistung" -- in English it should be something like "constant power") to the end of the audio clip.
                                                            4. Save the project.
                                                            5. Now click on the audio clip and try to drag it => the described problem occurs. Even if you restart PrE -- as soon as you open the file and once click on the audio clip the problem will occur.

                                                             

                                                            On my system this minimalistic project to reproduce the problem looks like this:

                                                            PrE_crashtest.png

                                                            On my system this is completely reproducable. No matter which project I use -- as soon as I apply this transition to the end of an audio clip and try to drag this audio clip the problems occur and I have to restart PrE. If I remove the transition everything is fine.

                                                             

                                                            I bet this will not be the only cause for the problem -- I am sure there are other project constellations which are resulting in the same symptoms. It would be great if someone could verify this on his system. If it is also reproducable there, I would like to open a bug report.

                                                             

                                                            Regards

                                                             

                                                              Sven

                                                            1 person found this helpful
                                                            • 27. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                              I get exactly the same results, Sven! I think you've definitely found a bug.

                                                               

                                                              What's strange, though, is that in the year since this software came out, no one reported this -- until the about two weeks ago! But now it's epidemic!

                                                               

                                                              It must be related to some buggy Windows or Quicktime update. The software hasn't changed.

                                                              • 28. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                I tried the test, but only have PrE 4. Everything functioned perfectly there, so my guess is that something got fritzed (technical computer term) up in PrE 7.

                                                                 

                                                                I think that it is time to file that Bug Report.

                                                                 

                                                                Great detective work and thank you so much for reporting.

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                • 29. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                  SQFreak2 Level 1

                                                                  Woah!! Confirmed, Sven. I just did it with a clip using the transition Constant Gain, which I've been in the habit of using frequently. (I guess I can't do that anymore!) Constant Gain and Constant Power both do it. But it's not every clip.

                                                                   

                                                                  Example:

                                                                  I have a project with the following things on the timeline:

                                                                  Video 1: White Matte.png xfade to Intro.avi xfade to Israel.avi

                                                                  Video 2: EBU Logo.png cut to ESC2009Logo.png xfade to black xfade to title card xfade to black

                                                                  Audio 1: M.A. Charpentier Te Deum.mp3 cut to constant gain transition to Intro.avi cut to silence cut to Israel.avi

                                                                  Audio 2: silence

                                                                   

                                                                  The constant gain transition in bold is just fine. But when I Intro.avi around on the timeline, the transition vanishes. I can even drop the transition back into the beginning of Intro.avi and have no problem. Well, other than when I drag Intro.avi again, it vanishes again. But if I create a new project, put just Intro.avi (the same file) into the timeline, and drop a Constant Gain transition onto the beginning of it, the behavior occurs again. So I think I have a non-reproducible bug on top of a very reproducible bug.

                                                                   

                                                                  I cannot simply delete the transition and have PrEl return to normal. I have to restart PrEl anyway.

                                                                   

                                                                  Now, one question - Is everyone experiencing this problem using Windows Vista? Is there anyone running Windows XP who can test to see if this problem occurs there? I've got a Win7 RC running in VirtualBox, and I'll install PrEl there (since it's physically the same computer, it shouldn't be a license violation) and see what I get.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                    SQFreak2 Level 1

                                                                    And I just replicated the problem on an essentially fresh install of Windows 7 RC on VirtualBox. The following are the only programs installed on that system:

                                                                     

                                                                    • Adobe Premiere Elements 7.0 (no updates installed, box copy with a DVD dated 7/08)
                                                                    • AVG Free 8.5
                                                                    • Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable
                                                                    • Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2
                                                                    • SmartSound Quicktracks for Premiere Elements
                                                                    • Sun VirtualBox Guest Additions 3.0.4

                                                                     

                                                                    Display driver is a VirtualBox Graphics Adapter dated 8/4/2009, v. 3.0.4.0

                                                                    Sound driver is an Intel 82801AA AC'97 dated 7/29/2008, v. 6.0.6001.18000

                                                                    Mouse is a Microsoft PS/2 Mouse dated 6/21/2006, v. 6.1.7100.0

                                                                     

                                                                    I disconnected the VirtualBox from the Internet then installed Premiere so it couldn't possibly have installed any updates. How could this be a new issue if it's occurring on a fresh install of Windows from a boxed copy?

                                                                    • 32. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                      Fran Guidry Level 1

                                                                      I'm away from my PE7 system for a couple of months but the project that was giving me this issue had an audio crossfade transition on one clip.

                                                                       

                                                                      Fran

                                                                      • 33. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                        sven-berlin Level 1

                                                                        Hey guys -- thanks for the feedback from the other systems. I have commited  a bug report for Adobe.

                                                                        • 34. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                          M K B Level 1

                                                                          Hey folks, I just found this thread. It happens to me when I'm adding effects to video clips.

                                                                          Mike

                                                                          • 35. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                            Mike,

                                                                             

                                                                            Can you please give us more to go on? The Assets, the Project Preset, and even your system, might give us something to work with. This ARTICLE will give you some tips on the info that we can use.

                                                                             

                                                                            Good luck,

                                                                             

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                            • 36. Re: Timeline - Cannot Move Tracks and Display Problem
                                                                              M K B Level 1

                                                                              Hi Bill,

                                                                              It's happened on my PC (Dual Core Processor, 2 Gb RAM, 306 GB free hard drive space, Nvidia GeForce 6200 video card) and on my brand new (bought Friday) laptop (Dual Core Processor, 3 Gb RAM, 306 GB free hard drive space, ATI onboard video).

                                                                               

                                                                              Timeline scroll is set to none. Has happened on multiple projects, seems to always start when I'm trying out different video effects (drag an effect onto a clip, don't like, click Undo, drag another clip, etc.). I don't get all the symptoms, just the timeline scrolling when I move my mouse anywhere close to the edges of the screen, and not being able to "release it" until I retsart Premiere Elements.

                                                                               

                                                                              Projects all involved 1 audio track, with no effects but fade in and out, and several video and text tracks with a lot of different effects.

                                                                               

                                                                              I get the feeling that since this thread ios over a year old, the issue was never fixed in a patch?

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                              Mike.