11 Replies Latest reply on Sep 11, 2009 5:32 PM by the_wine_snob

    Pre-Project help needed

    k2kramer-cIzBOv

      I have used PE7 successfully with single camera footage from my Canon GL2 (nonHD). Now, I want to add an additional camera to get two simultaneous shots, then edit together in the timeline.

       

      To that end I purchased a Canon VIXIA HFS100. This shoots AVCHD (HD) format. My goal will be to end up with a non HD project in PE7 to then write to standard DVD's.

       

      The new Canon s100 has 5 shooting modes according to file size and quality. Is there a suggestion as to which I should shoot in as I will ultimately not be getting an HD product at the end and the highest quality takes lots of computing power to deal with?

       

      What settings should I be using to import the HD files into PE7?

       

      Any other tips before I get started? This will be a challange for me I'm sure and I appreciate any help I can get ahead of time...and I'm sure I'll be back in the "during"part of the project as well.

       

      Kenny

        • 1. Re: Pre-Project help needed
          k2kramer-cIzBOv Level 1

          Okay...no help yet. Maybe I need to simplify my question.

           

          Can I bring the two different types of files, AVCHD and DV ( .MTS and.avi) into one project and edit on timeline of PrE7? If so, how?

           

          If not, I see the Premiere Pro CS4 can do this and there is a $299. upgrade currently. Any thoughts...from anyone?

           

          Thanks,

           

          Kenny

          • 2. Re: Pre-Project help needed
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            Kenny, you do have to be patient on these forums sometimes. None of us are paid to be here. We're just volunteers, doing what we can to help people out, and sometimes it takes more than a few hours for someone to get back to you!

             

            That said, the biggest challenge to editing AVCHD -- no matter which program you use to edit it -- is that it demands massive amounts of computer power. In fact, most people who are successfully working with it are using computers with quad core processors and 4 gigabytes of RAM.

             

            So hardware is  your biggest requirement for working with these files.

             

            Otherwise, on a well-tuned, well-maintained computer, you should be able to work with AVCHD equally well with Premiere Pro or Elements. (As long as you're aware of what a bear it is to lug these highly compressed files around.)

             

            I would not recommend using standard DV and AVCHD in the same project. There are too many challenges to doing it successfully.

             

            The best way to place them both in the same project is to output your AVCHD footage from your AVCHD project as a standard-def DV-AVI (effectively down-rezzing it to standard video). Then you can combine that DV-AVI with your footage from the GL.

            • 3. Re: Pre-Project help needed
              the_wine_snob Level 9

              Steve,

               

              Along the lines of what Kenny is wishing to do, can PrE 7 do real multi-cam editing, even if the source footage is matched?

               

              PrPro can, and the matching of the media would still be necessary there, but I was unaware that one can do this efficiently in PrE.

               

              Now, one could place the footage of Cam 1 on, say Video Track 1 and Cam 2 on Video Track 2, but as PrE will not allow one to turn on/off the visibility on a Video Track, all syncing would first have to be done by adjusting the Opacity of Video Track 2, and then adjusting it back up. It would be a constant reduction/increase of Opacity, to find the edit points. Could be done, but would be tedious. Am I missing something with PrE 7?

               

              Again, with matching source footage, PrPro can do this easily, as you will get two monitors, one for Cam 1 and Cam 2 (think it can do up to 4 cameras, but it might only be 3).

               

              Even if one did not do official multi-cam editing, and I would go that route, one can easliy turn OFF the upper Tracks and edit the lower, then turn back ON. Still, once synced in multi-track mode, you can edit both cam's footage easily.

               

              Just wondering,

               

              Hunt

               

              Just got off the golf course, or I would have asked some of this to Kenny earlier. For me, PrPro would be a necessity, and for that, matching the source footage would be a necessity. I just do not know about PrE 7's capabilities.

              • 4. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                k2kramer-cIzBOv Level 1

                Thanks Steve, I will now increase my patience threshold, especially as I start shooting the project in ernest tomorrow!

                 

                My system is a few years old, so that may be an issue. It has 1.86-GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 processor, but I have upgraded to 4 GB RAM.

                 

                To give an overview of what I'm up against and reiterate your suggestion. I am filming and recording chamber music ensembles. I have excellent mics attached to my GL2. That will provide the sound track and one camera angle. I will then be attempting to edit into the finished film, edited cuts from the second camera (the Canon HF S100).

                 

                I will need to sync the sound from the GL2 with the images from the HF S100. I was going to use a clapper for that. Am I getting warm?

                 

                So, to make sure I'm clear on your suggestion, I  take the entire AVCHD footage that has been saved on the timeline and output it to DV-AVI? If so, is this the right sequence? ..."file", "export", "movie", under settings choose file type, "microsoft DV AVI"?

                 

                Then after I get my DV footage from the GL2 into a new project, add this new DV-AVI file to it? Then I shoudl have the two on the same timeline and then I'll start asking questions about how to cut the images together while keeping the sound track syncd.

                 

                Thank you so much for helping me out.

                 

                What might your feelings be about going to the Pro program? I experienced nightmare crashes after loading PrE7. I spent more than 12 hours with tech support. We found a few conflicts with one of the CD/DVD drives and it needed to be disabled while working in PrE7 to keep from crashing. I had no problems with PrE4 or PrE3 doing exactly the same type of work on the same system. This also makes me lean towards upgrading to the Pro version.

                 

                Any thoughts on that one?

                • 5. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                  k2kramer-cIzBOv Level 1

                  Thanks Hunt.

                   

                  What do you mean by "matching source footage"? Does that refer to vertically stacking the two video tracks in the timeline so as to be in sync with the audio track?

                   

                  Not sure what is being suggested by this:

                   

                  Even if one did not do official multi-cam editing, and I would go that route, one can easliy turn OFF the upper Tracks and edit the lower, then turn back ON. Still, once synced in multi-track mode, you can edit both cam's footage easily???

                  • 6. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    What do you mean by "matching source footage"? Does that refer to vertically stacking the two video tracks in the timeline so as to be in sync with the audio track?

                     

                    This refers to getting the source footage from each camera to match in all aspects. DV-AVI Type II is a great format/CODEC to work with, as it is the "native" format of both PrE and PrPro.

                     

                    As for syncing the footage, the slate/clapper is a good idea. Now, with your case, the live performances, one thing to remember will be that both cameras need to shoot the slate, and then continue to run. Otherwise, one would need to reslate for each "take" for both cameras, and this will not be possible with a live performance. You'll just get more footage, than you will likely use with the second camera, the one used for CU's, etc. Much of it will just "hit the cutting room floor." Were you doing a dramatic, scripted movie, then you would just slate each take, but you will likely not have the leisure to do this.

                     

                    Not sure what is being suggested by this:

                     

                    In PrPro, one can turn ON/OFF the visibility of either Video Layer, at will. PrE does not allow for this, so adjusting Opacity is the only way that I can see to "get to" the footage on the lower Video Track. Because PrPro also offers a full multi-cam mode, you get two (or more) monitors to view the individual Tracks.

                     

                    Now, with regard to your computer. I feel that you will have performance issues trying to use it for the AVCHD footage. Most recommend a minimum of a new Quad-core CPU. Many recommend dual Quads, and some feel that the performance is so greatly compromised by the material, that they adhere to dual 7i's, as their minimum. AVCHD is very highly CPU intensive - more so than other formats.

                     

                    The 4GB RAM will help you, but I would be curious about your I/O subsystem, i.e. your HDD's, their size, speed, controller type, free space and how each is allocated. Most editing and playback is highly I/O intensive (usually more so than CPU-intensive, but not so with AVCHD), so this is a very important aspect of your computer.

                     

                    Good luck on your Project,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                      k2kramer-cIzBOv Level 1

                      Last things first,

                       

                      My WD 500 GB Firewire HD just died as I'm embarking on this task ...so I was able to replace it today with a 1.5TB external 7300 RPM but it is only USB 2.0. My internal is also 7300 RPM and 230GB, SATA RAID controller, both NTFS format.

                       

                      So if DV-AVI Type II format is the goal for my project. What about Steve's suggestion about exporting my AVCHD footage to DV-AVI with equivelent settings as the DV-AVI coming out of the Canon GL2? That way, I'm not really suffering from my inadequate computing power, as I will not be needing to edit it but just  taking the whole uneditied file and exporting it (converting) to DV-AVI. Then, would I not have the two sources with matching aspects?

                       

                      Wish I got to play golf today!

                       

                      Kenny

                      • 8. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Kenny,

                         

                        Converting from AVCHD to DV-AVI Type II would be my choice. That removes a major load from the computer.

                         

                        I'd be just a bit careful with the USB 2.0 external. Because of the slow connection there will first be a bottleneck with regard to file transfer and I've also seen many problems with the connection becoming overloaded and the data on the external becoming corrupted. A USB 2.0 external should need NO drivers to function and be seen properly by the OS. However, many of them want to install drivers to the OS. Many of these can cause real system problems. Early on, I had issues with the drivers from Maxtor. I was new to USB 2.0 externals then, and it took some research to find that these drivers were just not needed, and that they were not well-written. Though my Maxtor wanted to install them everytime it was connected, I was able to kill that behavior on the Maxtor's end, and then remove the ones that it had installed in the OS. This helped, but I had to tackle it from both ends - the external's and the OS. The first few times that I removed them from the OS, the next time that I'd hook up the Maxtor, it would see that the drivers were missing and just reinstall them. They kept coming back, and causing issues. I finally just wiped the Maxtor, removing everything with a low-level format, and then a full NTSF format of the drive - it no longer had those drivers to reinstall.

                         

                        Good luck, but do keep an eye out for that USB 2.0 connection. Also, sorry about your FW external.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                          You may not have enough computer power to run Premiere Pro on that system, Kenny. Particularly for editing AVCHD. But, if there is a free trial, it might be worth a try to find out.

                           

                          It won't resolve your main challenge though -- which is combining AVCHD and DV in the same project.

                           

                          For that I'd recommend you import your AVCHD into an AVCHD project and from there use Share/Personal Computer to export a down-rezzed DV-AVI of your video.

                           

                          Then open a new project (using the standard DV preset) and combine that footage with your DV footage from the GL.

                           

                          As Hunt says, one of the key features in Premiere Pro is the ability to take footage from several angles of the same event (using only the one from one camcorder) and the select how the program cuts back and forth between the different angles.

                          • 10. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                            k2kramer-cIzBOv Level 1

                            Should I continue this thread or begin another?

                             

                            On with the project... update on where I'm at and advice on continuing.

                             

                            I have now successfully taken the AVCHD files and saved them as DV-AVI files.

                             

                            I have added both the original DVI files from the Canon GL2 and the newly created .avi files to the timeline for editing (two video and two audio tracks on timeline).

                             

                            The goal again is to maintain a continuous audio track as these are music performances and cut between the two video tracks to get the desired two camera angles.

                             

                            From experimenting and using the help, I have learned that the lower track is dominant (alpha?) and I can lower the opacity of the lower track to reveal the upper. If I can make cuts through both tracks I could use the opacity of the clip to essentially cut between the two tracks.

                             

                            Is this the preferred method I should use? If not, how should I accomplish this?

                             

                            How do I make the cuts? My idea would be to link the video clips, then use the split clip tool at the "in" and "out" cuts then use opacity.

                             

                            Before wasting lots of time, I'll await a reply with encouragement to proceed in this fashion or advice on a different approach.

                             

                            Thanks for your continued help,

                             

                            Kenny

                            • 11. Re: Pre-Project help needed
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              Unfortunately, PrE lacks two great things, that you could use for this Project: Track Locking and Multi-cam Mode. PrPro has both.

                               

                              PrE can be forced to work, but you will have to expend effort.

                               

                              The Opacity of "higher" Video Tracks can be adjusted, so that you can follow the images. The Scissors Tool will allow you to "cut" the appropriate Track's Video, but without fully Locking other Tracks, you will have many cuts that you will not use. Still, you can Delete/Clear the unnecessary Video Clips.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt