33 Replies Latest reply on Sep 27, 2009 8:54 AM by EH....?

    CS4  AVCHD with Timecode

    pebalsamo Level 2

      I am sure that I am probably doing something wrong but I have several hours worth of AVCHD clips from 2 seperate Panny HMC-150's.  The timecode of these cameras was sync'd so I would like to be able to use the timecode to know what was shot when.  Each of the clips timecode starts over at 00;00;00;00 .  My assumption is that there is something to check or uncheck to get Premiere to see these timecodes.  Can someone point me in the right direction please...

       

      I had a similar problem with HDV a while back and was going to make a post but forgot about it.  A client brought in some HDV footage that he shot and the timecode reset a bunch of times from him watching the footage.  He had notes as to what times he wanted to use and if it was the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time of that particular timecode.  I imported the tape via firewire from a Sony camera that he used to shoot the footage and I assumed that it would read the TC from the tape, but it started at 00;00 and continued throught the entire clip.  While it was being ingested into the system I could see the timecode resetting but when it was in the source monitor it was just the one continus timecode.

       

      Thanks for any help...

       

      Phil

        • 1. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
          pebalsamo Level 2

          No Ideas???

           

          Phil

          • 2. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            I have seen these problems with people using Matrox. Both with ASIO and RT.X cards and drivers. Matrox is aware of the problem, but has no solution yet.

            • 3. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
              pebalsamo Level 2

              No matrox here...  I am just copying the main "Private" folder off of the SD card onto my HDD and then importing the .MTS files into my project...

               

              Thanks for the info about Matrox though Harm....

               

              Phil

              • 4. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Don't import just the .MTS files. Import the whole directory, including sub-directories.

                • 5. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                  pebalsamo Level 2

                  I am not sure if this is correct but here is what I am doing....

                   

                  1.  Insert SD card in SD slot on my computer.

                  2.  Copy "Private" folder which contains ALL of the info stored on the card from the camera.

                  3.  Paste the "Private" folder on my HDD

                  4.  With Premiere Media Browser I navigate to the folder that contains the "Private" folder.  When you click on the "Private" folder in the Media Browser it automatically goes to the folder that holds the .MTS files and changes in the "View As" to AVCHD.

                  5.  Highlight all the clips and right click and select "Import".

                   

                  I have also tried just navagating to the Folder on my HDD that contains the "Private" folder and dragging that into Premiere and all the MTS files are imported and I get an error for unsupported files for all the rest of the files.

                   

                  This screen shot shows the folder structure just incase you are not familiar with it.

                  [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/pebalsamo/Folders.jpg[/IMG]

                   

                  The next two screen shots are from the Import failure message that I get when I just drag the entire folder into Premiere.

                  [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/pebalsamo/ImportFailure1.jpg[/IMG]

                   

                  [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/pebalsamo/ImportFailure2.jpg[/IMG]

                   

                  Thanks

                  Phil

                  • 6. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    I'm not familiar with AVCHD, but what I would do to see what you need to import and what not, use PR and import the PRIVATE directory. If it gives any error messages, just click OK. After the files have been indexed and conformed, open the PRIVATE bin in the project panel. Move down to your video clips and check the timecode. Is it OK now?. Next repeat that by importing the AVCHD directory. Does it still show the correct timecode? If yes, then next time you don't need to import the PRIVATE folder, just the AVCHD folder. You can continue down the directory tree to see which directory needs to be imported as a folder and still works. Hope this helps.

                     

                    With XDCAM-EX you need to import the complete BPAV folder and disregard any error messages. Something similar should happen here.

                    • 7. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                      pebalsamo Level 2

                      I imported the Private, AVCHD, BDMV and Stream folders one at a time and each with the same result of the timecode starting at 00;00;00;00.

                       

                      Dang...  After reading your last post I thought that was going to do it...

                       

                      Thanks for the effort Harm...

                       

                      Phil

                      • 8. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Dang, I thought this might have helped.

                         

                        I hope someone else with AVCHD experience can tune in and help you out. Sorry.

                        • 9. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                          pebalsamo Level 2

                          Thanks again for the help Harm....

                           

                          Anyone out there have any experience with AVCHD???

                           

                          I just got off the phone with Adobe and the person that I talked with really had no idea what I was talking about.  He is supposed to do some research and call me back, but I am not overly confident with his notes that he was taking.  He kept repeating things back to me that really had nothing to do with what I was talking about.  So hopefully someone in here will be able to help...

                           

                          Thanks

                          Phil

                          • 10. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                            pebalsamo Level 2

                            OK, just a little update....

                             

                            Panasonic has a program by Main Concept that they make available for download for people that purchase their AVCHD Cameras.  What it does is transcode the AVCHD footage to P2.  I just took one of my cards that had 100 min of video and converted it to P2 with this converter and the timecode is there.  So it must be that Premiere does not support timecode with AVCHD.  Why they would support a format halfway is beyond me.  For a lot of my projects the timecode really is not all that important to me, but for some it is very important.  It really surprises me that they would not allow it to read the TC.  Hopefully there is just something that I am missing still, but I do not think so since it worked just fine after being converted to P2.

                             

                            Phil

                            • 11. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Glad you solved it and thanks for reporting back. That may help others in the future with similar problems.

                               

                              Happy editing

                              • 12. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                pebalsamo Level 2

                                Not completely solved but it does help...  I would rather be able to just edit the AVCHD files for 2 reasons...

                                 

                                1.  Transcode time that I would rather not have to account for.

                                 

                                2.  File Size.  My 100 min of AVCHD is 15.3GB and the P2 is 85.6GB.

                                 

                                The good thing is that it works and when I NEED to use timecode at least now I know that I have an option...

                                 

                                Hopefully Adobe will get this fixed.  I am going to submit a Feature Request...

                                 

                                Thanks again.

                                Phil

                                • 13. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                  pebalsamo Level 2

                                  From a Post on another board I was told that Adobe does not support Timecode with AVCHD, for what reason I am not sure.  I still have not heard back from Adobe about the issue.  Like I said in my previous post I submitted a Bug Report (I said I was going to do a Feature Request but I think it is more of a Bug).  I would ask that anyone else that edits with AVCHD to please submit a Bug Report or Feature Request about this issue...

                                   

                                  https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                   

                                  Have a great day everyone...

                                   

                                  Phil

                                  • 14. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                    MYX

                                    Just a thought, but couldn't you just throw your clips in a sequence, change the zero offset to your desired timecode, then pull that sequence into the source monitor. Then the all the clips would stack up and keep consistant. You can then nest the clips from seq 1 in a new sequence. Plus this would help with global color grading or sound correction if necessary.

                                     

                                    We also have used the P2 conversions, but I have had some issues with the new clips and yes a lot of time you get ginormic file sizes. The AVCHD stuff is new to us and we are trying like mad to get our hands around it. There are too many places that it is just plain goofy.

                                    • 15. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                      TXSUSFILMS

                                      I am having the exact same problem. I shot about 100 minutes of video consisting of 80 clips. All clips start with 00:00 timecode. This is incredibly disappointing and short sighted on Adobe's part. Who but a rank amateur would settle for this?  It certainly is not in Adobe's marketing materials. Adobe proudly boasts CS4 supports AVCHD but with no mention that timecode is not included. This is insulting and intentionally deceptive.  What say Adobe?

                                      • 16. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        Who but a rank amateur would settle for this?

                                         

                                        One could ask that same question of AVCHD - or any temporally compressed format.

                                         

                                        "Just don't use 'em" is my viewpoint.

                                        • 17. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Welcome to the forum.

                                           

                                          What say Adobe?

                                          You'll not find that out here. Better to contact them, as we're just "users" here. Now, some do typify some of us as "Adobe apologists," but only Harm draws any sort of pay from Adobe - well, all he gets is lunch in the official Adobe cafeteria, but he does get to order the lobster.

                                           

                                           

                                          I'd post a Feature Request to get their attention. It will not be answered, but might find its way into CS5?

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            Jim,

                                             

                                            Once again I ask you to open your eyes. Take a look at what Discovery Channel requires:

                                             

                                            DCI has gone to a scaled delivery system, based upon the video acquisition format. They use a Gold, Silver and Bronze system as outlined below (this info is from Jan/08 so may be a bit stale):

                                            THIS PRODUCTION SHALL BE:

                                            HD GOLD:  
                                            Aspect Ratio - 16:9 HD
                                            Shooting Format - HDCAM SR / HDCAM / DVC PRO HD  
                                            Standard (resolution / scanning method / frame rate – 1080i 59.94 / 1080i 50 / 1080 Psf 23.98 / 1080 Psf 25 / 720 P 59.94 / 720 P 50 / 720 P 25 / 720 P 23.98

                                            HD SILVER & BRONZE: 
                                            Aspect Ratio - 16:9 HD 
                                            Shooting Format - HDCAM SR / HDCAM / DVC PRO HD / HDV / XDCAM HD 35 megabit 
                                            Standard (resolution / scanning method / frame rate – 1080i 59.94 / 1080i 50 / 1080 Psf 23.98 / 1080 Psf 25 / 720 P 59.94 / 720 P 50 / 720 P 25 / 720 P 23.98

                                            SD:  
                                            Aspect Ratio - 16:9 Full Height Anamorphic 
                                            Shooting Format - Digital Betacam / Betacam SP / IMX 50 Megabit tape / IMX 50 megabit / XDCAM Disc / DVC PRO 50 / DVCAM (Special Exception Required) / HDCAM SR / HDCAM / DVC PRO HD / HDV / XDCAM HD 35 megabit]

                                             

                                            So, for Gold, HDCAM, which is MPEG long GOP, is acceptable

                                            For Silver and Bronze, XDCAM HD, which is also long GOP, is acceptable

                                             

                                            In other words, long GOP formats are used by professionals and accepted by professional broadcasters like DCI.

                                             

                                            Maybe you are just too much of a professional, that you look down on the requirements of DCI.

                                            • 19. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              HDCAM is not temporally compressed.  The GOP formats are at best Silver.  So it seems even Discovery Channel "looks down" on them to some degree.

                                              • 20. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                TXSUSFILMS Level 1

                                                I didn't intend to offend the members of the forum but one would assume regardless of the format, DV to HDCam, timecode would be supported by any editing software that calls itself "pro". I'm new to the forum and willl follow up with tech support.

                                                • 21. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9
                                                  I didn't intend to offend the members of the forum

                                                   

                                                  No offense was taken. The discussions of formats, CODEC's and schemes have been ongoing, as they should be in any technical forum. Some have differing ideas, and have made choices that might not sit well with some others, and would never be accepted by "the other side." It's similar to the Mac vs PC debates (fortunately not so often seen here). Each "side" has an opinion and likely material to support that opinion. It happens all of the time.

                                                   

                                                  As for contacting TS, I do wish you luck, but would suspect that not much will come of that. Should I be proved wrong, please share what you find out. I find that with the exception of some obscure licensing issues, or really odd installation issues, this forum has much more to offer than TS, as it seems they now rely on a small, set script - "uninstall, then reinstall."

                                                   

                                                  As for the issue that you raised, I cannot help, but you make a good point.

                                                   

                                                  Do not let this discussion, as it is no more than just that, cause you to turn your back on this forum. It's one of the best around.

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                    TXSUSFILMS Level 1

                                                    Thanks for the encouragement. I do intend to make much use of the Forum. I am new to Premiere having come from the Avid/Pinnacle world. Premiere CS4 is deep and capable but the workflow will take a some getting used to. I will have many questions to share with the forum.

                                                    • 23. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                      Colin-B Level 1

                                                      Is this definately a problem with ALL clips in AVCHD format, or does anyone have at least 1 clip which has the correct start timecode in PPro?

                                                       

                                                      If there is just one file which has the correct timecode in PPro then this would at least confirm if PPro is able to extract the timecode in some circumstances - if so then it may be possible to "fix" all clip files so that PPro extracts their timecode correctly.

                                                      • 24. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                        TXSUSFILMS Level 1

                                                        I ran across this footnote on the Panasonic site.

                                                        *2) Timecode recorded on AG-HMC150 series is not supported on Premiere Pro CS4 (4.0.1) .

                                                         

                                                        page link:

                                                        https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/sales_o/avchdcomp/AG-HMC150.html#anchor001

                                                        • 25. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                          TXSUSFILMS Level 1

                                                          And I just received this tech note from adobe support. I haven't had a chance to try it as I am traveling this weekend.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Thank you for contacting Adobe Support. I am responding to you in reference to your request dated 09/04/2009 for assistance regarding Adobe Premiere Pro CS4. We understand you are facing issues that Premiere CS4 does not see the timecode for the avchd clips we import. every clip starts at 00:00 . We do realize the importance of your issue and let me take the opportunity to thank you for using an Adobe product. I also assure you that together we will try and provide you with the best possible solution. Please follow the trouble shooting steps given below :- Re-create the Premiere Pro CS4 preferences folders: 1. Close Premiere Pro CS4. 2. Rename the 4.0 folder (for example, to Old 4.0) in the C:\Users\[your user name]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Premiere Pro folder. 3. Rename the Styles folder (for example, to Old Styles) in the C:\Users\[your user name]\Documents\Adobe\Premiere Pro\4.0 folder. 4. Rename the Layouts folder (for example, to Old Layouts) in the C:\Users\[your user name]\Documents\Adobe\Premiere Pro\4.0 folder. 5. Open Premiere Pro CS4. The application will create new preferences files.

                                                          • 26. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                            pebalsamo Level 2

                                                            Well at least you got a response...  I talked with someone on the phone and sent an email to TS and never heard anything back.  The person I talked to on the phone was completely useless...  He had no idea what I was talking about and had to keep putting me on hold to ask someone else the questions I was asking him....

                                                             

                                                            I am going to give your trouble shooting response a shot and see if I can get it to work....

                                                             

                                                            Thanks

                                                            Phil

                                                            • 27. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                              pebalsamo Level 2

                                                              Well I just tried the trouble shoot steps of renaming the folders and it did not help at all....  All my clips still start at 00;00;00;00...  I agree that this is a short coming of Adobe...  How can you say your product supports AVCHD when it is not full support.....

                                                               

                                                              By the way I have also tried with footage from a small Canon HF100 and all the clips from that camera start at 00;00;00;00 as well, so it is not just the HMC 150.

                                                               

                                                              Phil

                                                              • 28. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                Colin-B Level 1

                                                                Thanks - the troubleshooting steps did sound a bit like desparation. Does anyone have any AVCHD clips at all which PPro can correctly identify the start timecode?

                                                                • 29. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                                                  Phil,

                                                                   

                                                                  Much of my AVCHD footage has the same - starting at 00:00:00 but I want to dive a little deeper on this one.  If I don't answer in the next week, bump this thread or send me a private message.  I want to go back to the engineers and ask about this.

                                                                   

                                                                  Regards,

                                                                  Dennis

                                                                  • 30. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                    pebalsamo Level 2

                                                                    dradeke wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    Phil,

                                                                     

                                                                    Much of my AVCHD footage has the same - starting at 00:00:00 but I want to dive a little deeper on this one.  If I don't answer in the next week, bump this thread or send me a private message.  I want to go back to the engineers and ask about this.

                                                                     

                                                                    Regards,

                                                                    Dennis

                                                                    Thanks for taking the time Dennis to actually take a look at it...  If I do not hear anything by 10/5/09 I will bump this and/or send you a PM...

                                                                     

                                                                    Thanks


                                                                    Phil

                                                                    • 31. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                      EH....?

                                                                      Apparently, according to another posting here called 4.2 Update coming, AVG compression is to be supported.  I didn't realize that it wasn't already!

                                                                       

                                                                      Norman Frizzle

                                                                      • 32. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                                        AVC-Intra support is coming.  AVG is a brand of virus scanner.

                                                                        • 33. Re: CS4  AVCHD with Timecode
                                                                          EH....? Level 1

                                                                          Sorry, slio-of-the-keyboard!

                                                                           

                                                                          NF