32 Replies Latest reply on Oct 11, 2009 5:56 PM by pribco

    Two questions


      1.  Am in the market for new video camera--Is miniDV still the prefered format?  Any camera recomendations for around $300?


      2. Is there any way to extract a movie from my old miniDV camera if the driver is not compatable with Vista??  Possibly input to DVD revorder via a modulater?



        • 1. Re: Two questions
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          MiniDV is still the ideal format for interfacing with Premiere Elements. At least as far as standard definition video. For hi-def video, it's HDV, which is also tape-based. In both cases, the video is easily captured into your computer and the video data is stored in exactly the same format in both the camcorder and in your computer.


          And the good news is that, because manufacturers are moving toward more hard drive based video storage, miniDV camcorders can be easily had for $300 or less! I'm a big fan of Sony myself. Panasonics are also very good, but lower end Canons are not nearly as good as their higher end counter-parts, in my not so humble opinions.


          As for drivers, the beauty of miniDV is that the only driver you need to capture it is the driver for your FireWire card! So  you certainly don't have to worry about whether or not Vista or XP or Windows 7 will recognize your camcorder. When a miniDV is connected by FireWire, it's all the same to your operating system. (And that's true for Macs as well as PCs.)

          • 2. Re: Two questions
            pribco Level 1

            Thanks so much--will try the firewire route--maybe can save some $$$

            • 3. Re: Two questions
              John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              For a Firewire DV Camera - look at Panasonic PV-GS320 or GS500 (Note that I have not used either, but they have good reviews)



              • 4. Re: Two questions
                pribco Level 1

                Hooked the camera up via firewire--front of computer.


                Vista told me camera was installed and ready to use.


                Unfortunately the computer crashes whenever I try to capture wether using Movie Maker, WinDV or the program that came withe the camera (JVC)


                All these programs recognize the camera but crash whenever I click the start record butten.


                Any thoughts???



                • 5. Re: Two questions
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  If MovieMaker is crashing (which is virtually never does) you've got issues with your system.


                  Ensure that you have all of your updates (that means manually going to Windows Update) and that you have the latest Quicktime.



                  And ensure that the drive you are capturing to is formatted NTFS and has at least 20 gigabytes of free, defragmented space.

                  • 6. Re: Two questions
                    pribco Level 1

                    Steve thanks for your help, but no joy.


                    Perhaps I was unclear--it is not MM that crashes but the whole system. I get a blue screen that has a lot of stuff on it about the problem being recently installed hardware (has got to be the JVC camera.  System then reboots.


                    New Dell--lost of space-formated correctly.


                    Any other ideas?



                    • 7. Re: Two questions
                      Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                      You haven't said if you've manually updated, cleaned and defragged your computer. "Brand new" computers are usually 4-6 months out of date, software-wise.


                      But, if after you've maintained your system you're still having problems, it could be a hardware problem. Try hooking your camcorder up to a different computer and, if you get the same reboot, it could be that you have a defective camcorder or FireWire cable.


                      FireWire is a universal computer link-up, so you don't need to install additional software for your camcorder. Any well-maintained computer should recognize your camcorder immediately.


                      If not, you'll need to talk to Dell.

                      • 8. Re: Two questions
                        pribco Level 1

                        Thanks Steve-will try another cable to back hookup.


                        After that will call Dell.


                        BTW--device manager says all is well with IEEE.


                        This is a challenge for sure.



                        • 9. Re: Two questions
                          pribco Level 1

                          The beat goes on!!!


                          Talked to Dell-they, of course, blame JVC--Dell claims that the camera (obviously) is incompatable with Vista.


                          This makes no sense to me (or to Steve)


                          Have tried contacting JVC but do not expect much.


                          A Google search of the problem reveals that others have had the same problem with JVC cameras.


                          Many of these results claim that JVC is notorious for these type problems, They claim that an integrated (on board) firewire causes problems and that I should get a seperate firewire card.


                          They also claim that I  should get a card with a Texes Instriment chip set and thatTI is more forgiving of imput anamolies.


                          Does this make sense???


                          So I go to Newegg--they have these cards for about $50.


                          The specs in Newegg list the operating system that support firewire cards.


                          Only some of these list Vista??  Again, does this make sense?? It sort of implies that firewire cards are operating system specific.


                          In the meantime, I have ordered a 4 pin to 4 pin cable to see what happens if I use my wifes laptop.


                          Any advice is appreciated.

                          • 10. Re: Two questions
                            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                            Well, I do agree that the JVC is likely the weakest link in this chain. Everios, in particular, are notorious for creating video files that give video editing programs heartburn. But yours is a tape-based miniDV, right? They're generally pretty standard.


                            As for your FireWire card, yes the Texas Instrument chipset is the standard. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy an expensive one. Most FireWire cards do use a TI chipset or similar. Just look for an OHCI compatible IEEE-1394 and you should be fine.


                            As for whether or not the cards are Vista compatible -- I could be dead wrong, but I've never heard of a OHCI-compliant FireWire card that wasn't plug-and-play on any operating system.


                            I guess what I'm saying then is, before you invest too much in replacing everything else, consider that the JVC may be at the core of problems. Can you borrow a miniDV camcorder from a friend and see if it works any better than the JVC? Can you afford $250 to replace the camcorder with another miniDV? (Any miniDV camcorder will read the tapes.)


                            Don't throw too much good money after bad. You'll just drive yourself crazy. See if you get the same results with another brand of camcorder before you try anything desparate.

                            • 11. Re: Two questions
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              As for the crashing, you might find a bunch of clues from this ARTICLE.


                              Good luck,



                              • 12. Re: Two questions
                                pribco Level 1

                                Thanks for all the help etc, but still no joy.


                                Here is were I stand.


                                Got the 4 pin 4 pin cable to try on wifes laptop.  Crashes machine as soon as I start Movie Maker.  At least on desktop machine MM starts but only crashes when I click import.


                                Ordered a new Sony mini DVD camera.  I  this works I will use the old camera when surf fishing etc and the new for more protected venues/


                                Assuming this works am still thinking about getting a stand along card with TI chip set.  Other forums seem to show this will solve the problem, They claim that an integrated, non TC connection is bad news.  Newegg has such card (firewire express)--unfortunately what they have is with 1 1394a and 2 1394b ports.  I don't think the (b) ports are of much value to me with miniDV.


                                Guess I am just a stubborn old cuss--

                                • 13. Re: Two questions
                                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  >Sony mini DVD camera


                                  You may be happy with the copy process (you just copy the files to your hard drive) but all indications from past messags are that you will be VERY unhappy with the editing process


                                  The files on a DVD are meant to be viewed, not edited... and they do not edit well in Premiere

                                  • 14. Re: Two questions
                                    pribco Level 1

                                    Opps-my bad--it is a miniDV (tape) camera for just the reasons you specified--

                                    • 15. Re: Two questions
                                      pribco Level 1

                                      Well, the beat goes on and I am ready to scream.


                                      Hooked uo the new Sony cam with high expectations--driver loaded just fine.


                                      Went to Movie Maker and clicked the capture command--CRASH--some thing as with JVC. Same with Premere.


                                      Am truely thinking problem lies in the integrated firewire connection and that a stand alone card is the answer--


                                      Any comments????


                                      Am ready to toss this Dell--



                                      • 16. Re: Two questions
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9



                                        Yes, it could be the IEE-1394a chip on the MoBo. An add-in PCI/PCIe card might be the answer. They are fairly cheap and easy to install. Few require any drivers, but the ones that do seem to work quite well.


                                        One thing, and it may have been asked and answered alread, do you have ANY other FW devices attached? Most MoBo chips are single channel chips, regardless of the number of connections they sport. For Capture, one should NEVER have any other FW decivce on that same channel, whether it's via multiple cables, or by daisy-chaining.


                                        Good luck, and sorry for your trials and tribulations. It is usually not this difficult.



                                        • 17. Re: Two questions
                                          pribco Level 1

                                          Thanks wine guy-


                                          I do have an  external HD also attached, but it is turned off when I try to capture.  Is that good enough??

                                          • 18. Re: Two questions
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9
                                            Is that good enough??


                                            Should be, but as a test, can you try with it totally unplugged?


                                            Just guess here,



                                            • 19. Re: Two questions
                                              pribco Level 1

                                              Well-ordered a stand alone 1394a express card from Newegg-


                                              Stay tuned.


                                              The card I orderd specifies for Vista--not all of them do.

                                              • 20. Re: Two questions
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Please report, and hope that the new card takes care of the issues.


                                                Good luck,



                                                • 21. Re: Two questions
                                                  pribco Level 1

                                                  Goldarnit all!!


                                                  Installed new firewire express card ordered from Newegg-


                                                  Card installed fine-device manager says all is well.


                                                  Try to capture in movie maker using new Sony--Crash blue screen.  $%#*@@$#.


                                                  Was able to pick up message --APC Index Mismatch. whatever that means.


                                                  Googled the message-many replies  most say a motherboard problem. Memory Tool says that is ok.


                                                  Will call Dell Monday-


                                                  This is getting ridiculous.



                                                  • 22. Re: Two questions
                                                    the_wine_snob Level 9



                                                    Sorry to hear of the issues. I hope that Dell can get you some resolution. You might also want to pour over this ARTICLE, just to see if you can find a few more "clues." I'm not sure if I have posted the link and if so, please ignore.


                                                    Good luck,



                                                    • 23. Re: Two questions
                                                      pribco Level 1

                                                      Thanks for all your help, but the beat goes on.


                                                      Spent 3 hrs on the phone with a nice young lady from Manila while she played around,--no joy.


                                                      Once she started trying to "manage my expectations" I got a bit testy-- I told her I had spent a whole bunch of $$$ over the years with Dell and didn't want to hear that crud.


                                                      They are going to replace the motherboard next week--don't have really high hopes, but on another forum folks suggested Dell motherboards have been problematic.


                                                      Of course customer service at the firewae card manufaturer was of little help, suggesting I instal in a different slot--dah!!


                                                      Further info--I "locked" the crash screen so I could read--The main message reads "APC Index Mismatch". However, If I unplug the two web cams, the meassage is _IRQL less or equal"


                                                      Tried to fool around with acceloration, but video card does not allow. adjustment.


                                                      I told the young lady that video is one of the main reason I got this machine--but as it stands it is garbage.


                                                      We will see---

                                                      • 24. Re: Two questions
                                                        pribco Level 1

                                                        I am wondering if the problem ,ight be the integrated video card--thoughts???



                                                        • 25. Re: Two questions
                                                          pribco Level 1

                                                          well, the Dell guy came and installed new mother board--no joy-


                                                          Dell is thinking that I need to go to 32 bit version of Vista--


                                                          Any comments???



                                                          • 26. Re: Two questions

                                                            No suggestions I am afraid but I just wanted to say that I admire your staying power. I would have used a shotgun on it by now. I do hope you manage to get this solved and can get on with the fun part real soon.

                                                            • 27. Re: Two questions
                                                              pribco Level 1

                                                              Am thinking of sending Sony back--


                                                              Will call Dell again--other folks say problem is 64 bit vista--


                                                              Does anyone know of a consumer grade mini DV cam that is certified for vista 64 bit????

                                                              • 28. Re: Two questions
                                                                Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                It's not the camcorder's interfacing with the operating system that's the problem, pribco. There's really no such thing as a 64-bit compatible camcorder.


                                                                It's more likely a matter of incompatible drivers interfacing with a 32-bit program. And I don't know of any way around that short of going to a 32-bit operatign system -- or upgrading to Premiere CS4, which is 64-bit compatible.

                                                                • 29. Re: Two questions
                                                                  pribco Level 1

                                                                  Steve-thanks for reply


                                                                  You answered my next question


                                                                  I am using vista 64 bit.


                                                                  Even with MovieMaker system crashes.


                                                                  I would think (silly me) that this would be 64 bit compatable.


                                                                  If I understand your point, it is not the cam, Any minidv cam should work.


                                                                  Device manager says all is well with the cam and the ports.


                                                                  Possibly I should do a clean reinstall of Vista??


                                                                  Or go to 32 bit system.



                                                                  • 30. Re: Two questions
                                                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                                                    Well, if MovieMaker is even crashing then something is very wrong somewhere!


                                                                    You may not need to do a clean install. I did a repair install of Vista on my daughter's laptop using the installation disks that came with it and it fixed a world of things that had been wrong with it since the day we bought it!


                                                                    It takes a while, of course, since you've got to install every update, just as you would a clean install. But it could fix whatever's going buggy.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Two questions
                                                                      pribco Level 1

                                                                      will give it a try, maybe tomorrow

                                                                      • 32. Re: Two questions
                                                                        pribco Level 1

                                                                        Believe it or not, got it figgered out-


                                                                        After two clean Vista re-installed, and slowly working my way thru other devices, I find that the culprit is a Creative Webcam Program-


                                                                        as soon as that is installed, MovieMaker crashes-delete it and all is well-


                                                                        Luckily I have another version and cam so all it well--


                                                                        Thanks to all for help and encouragment