8 Replies Latest reply on Oct 2, 2009 12:21 PM by the_wine_snob

    P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion

    Warlord_LA

      Hi, everyone.

       

      Is my first time in Adobe forums and my english isn't certainly the best, so excuse me for something I'll possibly make wrong :-)

       

      This is my problem:
      I edit a lot of videos (holidays, weddings, karting, ...) from Mini-DV tapes. No problem on edit work, neither on export to AVI or MPEG. And at this point (after export) I don't think I had lost some video quality or if had that would be slight. But when I finished the next step (convert the resulting file to DVD format) I realize that video suffers from a substantial quality lost, mainly a distortion on whites (they get much brighter and, of course, lose some of its texture). Also, not always, is noticeable a kind of yellow and red thin lines along the "objects" shape (mainly on human faces).

      At first I thought that was noting about Premiere and all about the conversion from AVI/MPEG to DVD because it's when the problem occurs, but after I had experimented all kind of converting software and the problem happens all times (sometimes more, sometimes less), I become to think the problem may be in Premiere exporting settings.

       

      So, these are my Premiere exporting settings:

       

      Export to AVI: File -> Export -> Movie
      Some important settings:

                             General: File Type: MS DV AVI

                             Video:  Compressor: DV (PAL) - I'm in Portugal (Europe)

                                        Frame rate: 25 fps
                                         Pixel aspect ratio: D1/DV PAL (1.067)
                                         Recompress: Maintain data rate
                              Keyframe and Rendering: Lower field first
                                                                   Optimize stills
                                                                   (don't have Deinterlace Video Footage marked)
                              Audio: Uncompressed, 48.000 Hz, 16-bit, stereo, 1 frame

       

      Export to MPEG: File -> Export -> Adobe Media Encoder
      Some important settings:

                            Format: MPEG2-DVD
                             Preset: Custom (PAL DV 4x3 High Quality 4Mb VBR 2 Pass)
                             Video Summary:
                                                      Codec: MainConcept MPEG Video
                                                      Quality: 5.0 (high quality)
                                                      TV Standard: PAL
                                                      Frame Rate [fps]: 25
                                                      Field Order: Lower
                                                      Aspect Ratio: 4:3
                                                      Frame Width [pixels]: 720
                                                      Frame Heigth [pixels]: 576
                                                      Bitrate Encoding: VBR, 2 Pass
                                                      Minimum Bitrate [Mbps]: 1.5000 (low quality)
                                                      Target Bitrate [Mbps]: 4.0000 (low quality)
                                                      Maximum Bitrate [Mbps]: 7.0000 (high quality)
                                                      M Frames: 3
                                                      N Frames: 12

       

                            Audio Summary:
                                                      Audio Format: PCM
                                                      Codec: PCM Audio
                                                      Sample Size: 16 bit
                                                      Frequency: 48 kHz

       

                            Multiplexer Summary:
                                                      Multiplexing: DVD

       

       

      I also thought the problem could be on the hardware but a few months ago I made an upgrade on my computer and changed CPU, Motherboard, RAM and Graphics card (had an AMD Sempron 2800+, 2 GB DDR and an ATI 9600 Pro 128MB) and the problem still remains...

      Actually I think it match all the needs:

      CPU: DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo E6300

      Motherboard: ASRock 4CoreDual-Sata2 (chipset: VIA Apollo PT880 Pro)

      RAM: 2x 1GB DDR2

      Graphics card: Asus EAH2600 512MB

      Windows XP Pro with SP2


      I don't care about time CPU will spend to do the task - before the upgrade it tooks aprox. 5 hours to convert a video and now it tooks only 1h30m :-). What is really important is obtaining the most quality DVD video can be possible. Can you help me?

       

      Perhaps someone already asked for something like my problem. If so, please excuse me and give me the link to that question.

       

      Many thanks to all of you in advance.

        • 1. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Target rate of 4.0 Mbps may be too low, depending on the length of your timeline, so use a bitrate calculator like this: http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php?PHPSESSID=6501b6b2b31f4c4a295bc8c2ba1e6f57#Calcu lator

          • 2. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
            Dag Norum Level 2

            Export to AVI: File -> Export -> Movie
            Some important settings:

                                   General: File Type: MS DV AVI

                                   Video:  Compressor: DV (PAL) - I'm in Portugal (Europe)

                                              Frame rate: 25 fps
                                               Pixel aspect ratio: D1/DV PAL (1.067)
                                               Recompress: Maintain data rate
                                    Keyframe and Rendering: Lower field first
                                                                         Optimize stills
                                                                         (don't have Deinterlace Video Footage marked)
                                    Audio: Uncompressed, 48.000 Hz, 16-bit, stereo, 1 frame


            Why do you do that???

             

            My saying: DO NOTdo that (DV-avi). If you want an intermediate file, make an uncompressed file (avi for windows, compressor set to none, and do not have the "Optimize stills" checked).

             

            Preferred, my opinion, is to go directly from timeline to the end target, in your case mpeg2.

             

            In addition to the above, if you are not sure about (or don't have the experience) to judge bit rates for maximum quality versus length of your project, use Harm's link.

             

            Dag

            • 3. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              mainly a distortion on whites (they get much brighter and, of course, lose some of its texture). Also, not always, is noticeable a kind of yellow and red thin lines along the "objects" shape (mainly on human faces).

               

              I don't believe insufficient bitrate would cause these errors.  In fact, nothing comes to mind that would cause these errors.  Any chance you can post a before/after screenshot, so we can see the original and the transcoded version of a frame with these errors?

              • 4. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
                Warlord_LA Level 1

                Harm Millaard:

                 

                First of all, thank you for your quicly reply ;-)

                Second, I'm very sorry to make a reply almost a month after your answer. The reason is that I went on holidays without an opportunity to test your tip.

                 

                But I came back, tested it and... it worked!  :-)

                I used the bitrate calculator and, suggested by the results,changed all the Bitrate values to 8.0000 (Minimum, Target and Maximum). All the problems I had noticed simply disappear. The movie looks great now ;-)

                I want to work always with the maximum quality, no matter what time is needed to convert the video and no matter the length (GB) it costs.

                I now understand why my DVD's could have 2h of video... Not anymore  :-)

                I used that Bitrate values I posted (1.5, 4 and 7) since I started using Adobe Premiere, recomended by someone with some experience, but I never realize the importance of that.

                 

                Many thanks!

                 

                (once more, sorry if my english isn't the better)

                • 5. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
                  Warlord_LA Level 1

                  Dag Norum:

                   

                   

                  First of all, thank you for your quicly reply ;-)

                  Second, I'm very sorry to make a reply almost a month after your answer. The reason is that I went on holidays without an opportunity to test your tip.

                   

                  I used Harm's link and than reached to a Bitrate of 8.0000 for all three fields (Min., Target and Max.) and that makes all the difference. Now I have a video with very good quality.

                   

                  But I haven't tested your tip yet to see if that improves the video final quality.

                  I want to work always with the maximum quality, no matter what time is needed to convert the video and no matter the length (GB) it costs.

                  Do you think I can export to an uncompressed file (avi for windows and compressor set to none) and than make the Menus with Encore? It wouldn't be better work on Encore with an MPEG2 file? The DV compressor is MPEG2, isn´t it?

                  And why you suggested to not have the "Optimize stills" checked? This is to optimize the frames without movement, isn´t it? Many times I use photos inserted in the movie. This option isn't good for that?

                  Your last suggestion, to go directly from timeline to the end target (MPEG2) is much different than that I use (DV compressor)?

                  If you could answer my questions I would appreciate.

                   

                  Many thanks!

                   

                  (sorry if my english isn't the better)

                   

                  ---------------------------------

                  Message was edited by: Warlord_LA   (01-Oct-2009   23h51)

                   

                  Sorry, I'd made a mistake.  When I answer to you I didn't realise that your sugestions was to AVI exportation and not to MPEG2.

                  Of course you are absolutely right: for an intermediate file, no compression is always better than some compression :-)

                  But my question about not have the "Optimize stills" checked remains. What does it makes, really?

                  • 6. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
                    the_wine_snob Level 9
                    The reason is that I went on holidays without an opportunity to test your tip.

                     

                    Now, if you went up to Oporto, and visited the houses of Taylor-Fladgate and Fonseca, we'll let you slide.

                     

                     

                    My question is how are you authoring your DVD?

                     

                    The reason that I ask, might be evident with my next reply.

                     

                    In the meantime, glad that Harm was able to help you. Still, you authroing app. might be able to help you even more, but we need to know about it.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
                      Warlord_LA Level 1

                      the_wine_snob:

                       

                       

                      My hollydays was in Algarve (Portugal). Oporto (Porto, in portuguese) is my home town :-)

                      I know almost all the port wine cellars: Cálem, Sandeman, Croft, Offley, Ferreira, Barros, ... and of course Taylor's (it's restaurant, "Barão de Fladgate" - Baron of Fladgate - is a must, not just because the excelent food but also because the magnificent views over the river and the city).

                      http://www.cavesvinhodoporto.com/intro_en.htm

                       

                      Now let's talk about... Premiere :-)

                      I don't know if what you want with your question ("how are you authoring your DVD"?) is this but I import the movie to Premiere (my camera is a Sony HRV-Z1E and until now I only used Sony DVCAM tapes: PDVM-40N), make the edition (cuts, background music, some effects, ...) and, when I think that's enough, export to MPEG (sometimes I also export to AVI to have a better quality movie, but with Harm's tip I think it won't be necessary any more).

                      Then I change to Encore, import the MPEG file and make the chapters and the menus. Finally I export to DVD format.

                      That's it.

                      • 8. Re: P.Pro 1.5 - Losing quality in AVI/MPEG to DVD conversion
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        At least you do not need to travel, to vist the Houses and Lodges!

                         

                         

                        Now, with regards to the Export/Import for Encore, so long as your MPEG-2's are 100% DVD-compliant, then Encore won't even have to Transcode them. Depending on the Duration of your Sequence/Timeline, and the capacity of your target disc, you can control your bit-rate in that Export.

                         

                        I normally Export as DV-AVI Type II (elemental streams, i.e. one video-only DV-AVI, and one audio-only AC3, or PCM/WAV), and then Import these into Encore, letting it do the Transcodes on Automatic, to fit onto the target disc. Some use a muxed DV-AVI Type II, with PCM/WAV Audio, but I take it one step further, the elemental streams. Also, I am normally working in DD 5.1 SS, so I need the AC3 out of the SurCode plug-in.

                         

                        Thanks for the info,

                         

                        Hunt